4th and 5th finger on left hand

[irespire]

I realized that though the rest of my fingers are reasonably good, those two severely lag behind the rest because I was too lazy with the exercises when younger. It slows down everything I do. It even slows me down in hanon a lot. I can't even trill on them much at all.

So, what to do?

[alpacinator1]

Trill with them a lot. Also, if you haven't played the first movement of the Pathetique, that could be very helpful. The octave tremolos in the left hand should give your 5th finger great excersize. If you are slow with Hanon, then play it slow, you'll get faster eventually.

[ramseytheii]

Practice left hand passages with your hand upside down (palm up).  As Bernhard used to say, to lift the fourth finger is hard; but to turn your hand upside down and just play the finger down, is easy.

Walter Ramsey

[thierry13]

Practice left hand passages with your hand upside down (palm up).  As Bernhard used to say, to lift the fourth finger is hard; but to turn your hand upside down and just play the finger down, is easy.

Walter Ramsey

I don't really get what you're trying to picture. If your hand is upside down, you would have to "lift" your finger for it to press the key down ... or I missed something?

[ramseytheii]

I don't really get what you're trying to picture. If your hand is upside down, you would have to "lift" your finger for it to press the key down ... or I missed something?

Oh - hehehe!  No; imagine that your palm is up, and your fingers are touching the underside of the keyboard.  In other words, your hand may be upside down, but your fingers move as if it was right side up.  This is not an exercise that you use to actually play the piano; only to get a feeling for how the fingers can work easily.

Walter Ramsey

[go12_3]

Aren't those fingers just special?            go12_3

[general disarray]

I realized that though the rest of my fingers are reasonably good, those two severely lag behind the rest because I was too lazy with the exercises when younger. It slows down everything I do. It even slows me down in hanon a lot. I can't even trill on them much at all.

So, what to do?

The fallacy for everyone -- and especially poor Robert Schumann -- was that 4 and 5 can be completely independent and as strong as the other fingers.  The hand is not designed that way. 

Much of the so-called strengthening of 4 and 5 actually comes from the awareness that  4 and 5 require the subtle employment of weight-shifting and slight shifts in hand position.  Try practicing double stops (thirds) and you will notice in the LH that playing 5-3 and 4-2 and 3-1 consecutively (then reverse the direction), is accomplished with total ease and speed with the use of shifting hand weight and position.  Just using your fingers like little pistons accomplishes nothing more than the creation of tendonitis.

Dexterity, velocity and strength are the result of much more than just "finger muscles."  You play the piano with your entire body. 

[gerry]

If you are up to them, several of the Moszkowski 15 Etudes (particulary #12) offer a less boring/monotonous alternative to Hanon and Czerny for left-hand and 4th/5th finger technical development.

[thierry13]

Oh - hehehe!  No; imagine that your palm is up, and your fingers are touching the underside of the keyboard.  In other words, your hand may be upside down, but your fingers move as if it was right side up.  This is not an exercise that you use to actually play the piano; only to get a feeling for how the fingers can work easily.

Walter Ramsey

Ho well then he comes back to the principle of not lifting the fingers high when playing...

[general disarray]

Oh - hehehe!  No; imagine that your palm is up, and your fingers are touching the underside of the keyboard.  In other words, your hand may be upside down, but your fingers move as if it was right side up.  This is not an exercise that you use to actually play the piano; only to get a feeling for how the fingers can work easily.

Walter Ramsey

Well, I've read this over and over.  Smoked some pot with my bud Michael Phelps and tossed back a brew with Thal, but I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WALTER IS SAYING HERE!!!

[javacisnotrecognized]

Well, I've read this over and over.  Smoked some pot with my bud Michael Phelps and tossed back a brew with Thal, but I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WALTER IS SAYING HERE!!!

Like this:

Try doing this but not actually at a piano.
Notice that the fingers are still moving the same way, but they are facing you now?

[go12_3]

I think the 4th finger is impossible to lift higher, the pinkie can go higher
although it depends upon the piece you are playing----and that all depends upon the pianist----whether or not the palm is up or down.   

[ramseytheii]

I think the 4th finger is impossible to lift higher, the pinkie can go higher
although it depends upon the piece you are playing----and that all depends upon the pianist----whether or not the palm is up or down.   

The point of the palm upside down exercise, is to show that you don't have to lift the fourth finger.  It plays much easier, without lifting.

Walter Ramsey

[go12_3]

I am now confused.....I've read the other posts in regarding this subject....perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what Walter is indicating afterall......
I have already viewed javac's youtube and I  did see a pianist perform that way a few years ago(fascinating to watch). Anyhow,  whether the   palms are facing up or  facing down(as we normally play piano) , what has that got to do with the 4th and 5th fingers playing any easier? 
 
Again,   ? )) ?

go12_3

[javacisnotrecognized]

I am now confused.....I've read the other posts in regarding this subject....perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what Walter is indicating afterall......
I have already viewed javac's youtube and I  did see a pianist perform that way a few years ago(fascinating to watch). Anyhow,  whether the   palms are facing up or  facing down(as we normally play piano) , what has that got to do with the 4th and 5th fingers playing any easier? 
 
Again,   ? )) ?

go12_3

TRY it, you will understand instantly. If you don't try it, no amount of explanation in the world will help.

[go12_3]

TRY it, you will understand instantly. If you don't try it, no amount of explanation in the world will help.

  Of course!   You are so correct, no explanation is needed indeed.....