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Topic: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1 (Read 17952 times)

tyler_johnson

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Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

on: March 13, 2009, 03:05:18 AM

I just started learning this piece and I don't have a piano teacher to answer me these questions so I was hoping you guys could help me out. I have 2 questions about this Scherzo, one is this:

Right toward the end of the first section, we see this:

https://www.tyler-johnson.net/Picture%201.jpg

Which sounds like this:

https://www.tyler-johnson.net/SCHERZO%201.mp3

But every recording I've heard of this piece everyone plays it like this:

https://www.tyler-johnson.net/SCHERZO%201(2).mp3

Which would look like this:

https://www.tyler-johnson.net/Picture%202.jpg

(no ties on the bass clef B notes).

Why is this? Am I missing something here?

And another thing is, during the 2nd section (right after the first repeat) I have ran into this and I've seen it before, but it's a note with a double accidental. It's a C in the bass clef with a natural AND a sharp sign before it, then the same thing in the same measure in the right hand, we have an F with a natural AND a sharp accidental. Which one do I play? Is the note sharp or natural?

Thanks.

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quantum

PS Silver Member
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Posts: 6260

Re: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 03:36:19 AM

Question 1:
In your Sibelius screen cap your are missing various articulation marks which changes things quite a bit. I have checked 2 online editions, plus the Paderewski. All of them have staccato marks on the first octave B in LH at bar 5, 7, and 9 (if one were to follow the numbering in your examples).

One edition did have a legato slur ending on the B's in question, but that edition did also have a staccato dot, which dissolves the implication of a tie and makes it a slur. According to the notes in Paderewski, there are discrepancies and inconsistencies in both the original French and German editions of weather there are slur marks or not.

Personally I play it with the staccato and not as a tie.

Question #2
Natural follow by sharp or flat on same note. The natural is there to cancel a previous accidental (most likely a double sharp or flat). The accidental that follows applies to that note.

Eg: [natural] [sharp] [c] - you would play as C#

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tyler_johnson

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Posts: 119

Re: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 05:10:50 AM

Ok, I double checked, the stacatto's are there in bars 5 and 7 but not bar 9. Interesting.

I think i'll play it as I've heard it and just play the stacatto's in all 3 bars here.

And thanks for the answer to question # 2, that makes sense now that I think about it since according to the B minor scale, it would simplify things to just write F# instead of E double sharp or write C# instead of B double sharp.

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aslanov

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Sr. Member
Posts: 275

Re: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 06:26:17 AM

the way that its played, to me, sounds much better than the tie.

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tyler_johnson

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Posts: 119

Re: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 06:33:30 AM

I just checked a few online sources and there were actually NO ties in these left hand measures. It's funny because the copy I have I downloaded from pianostreet.com haha. Maybe we should let the moderator's know that we have an inaccurate copy?

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tyler_johnson

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Posts: 119

Re: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 10:13:43 PM

One more question here quantum, that very last run 16 or 17 bars from the end, that chromatic up from low C# all the way up to high B, do you pedal that entire thing? The whole phrase is slurred, but iti sounds muddy with a full pedal on.

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quantum

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 6260

Re: Question regarding Chopin Scherzo No. 1

Reply #6 on: March 14, 2009, 01:45:12 PM

I don't know which source pianostreet used, but the existence of several first editions which conflict may have something to do with it. The editor had to make a choice one way or the other.

You may wish to see your library for the Jan Ekier edition. It is quite scholarly and considered authoritative.

As for the chromatic run, I believe I use fractional pedaling. It sounds un-colorful without pedal, and muddy with too much on. I think I start with very little pedal on the lower notes, and increase the amount as the run reaches the top. Lower notes tend to get blurred with too much pedal, but higher notes can go with more pedal. Pedal on high notes also gives a sense of resonance.

I posted it a while ago in the Audition Room.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,16838.0.html

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