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Topic: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I (Read 5044 times)

m19834

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Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

on: April 10, 2009, 04:08:33 PM

measure 18, beats 3 and 4, "A" or "Ab"

I am using the PS Urtext edition, and I have checked the Czerny edition provided by this site, as well as the Bach-Gesellschaft edition, as well as my own Kalmus edition, and every edition has an A natural for all three of the "A's" found within beats 3 and 4 in measure 18, RH (and there are not any Ab's in the measure anywhere else).

However, in listening now to several recordings there are discrepencies.

Schiff plays Ab.
Gould plays A natural on the first one, then Ab on the next two.

Richter plays A natural.
Tureck plays A natural.
Hewitt plays A natural.

I had somehow picked up the Ab in my own playing and then I was corrected to what the score actually reads. I don't doubt the correction, but upon listening again to Gould, the Ab caught my ear and suddenly I went on a hunt. Schiff's could just be wrong notes ? But, Gould's are intentional, it seems. Why is that happening ?

So, am I just being pedantic to wonder a bit obssessively about something like this, or does it actually matter ?

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go12_3

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 05:30:07 PM

A natural in my edition,

go12_3

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allemande

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 03:24:29 AM

In my edition it's A natural as well.

I did hear Gould's version and it does seem completely intentional. My guess is that in playing an Ab in the last beat of that bar, it gives the idea of it being a neapolitan 2nd chord, generating more tension prior to the F# (dominant) in the last bar which resolves in G.

It's not in my score, and apparently not in any other score either, so i guess it wasn't Bach's intention to do such a thing, besides, an Ab has really no reason to be there.

Maybe this can be useful...

https://www-personal.umich.edu/~siglind/wtc-i-16.htm

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cygnusdei

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 03:31:07 AM

It should be au naturel.

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m19834

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 03:39:12 AM

Thanks Allemande, I will do some reading. I was wondering if it was supposed to be something like what you are guessing, but I wasn't sure.

Just to be clear, I have already kind of come to grips with the fact that apparently in any score there is, it is an A natural. I guess that's why I find it very odd that Gould would purposely play an Ab there, and on top of that, why would Schiff also play an Ab there, on accident or on purpose ? That's odd (though Schiff has a couple other funny things in there, too).

So, I just wonder if there is some kind of performance practice that would somehow allow it ? I don't know, maybe it comes from the idea of Baroque embellishment being made by the performer ... except, Bach was the first Baroque guy to write out what embellishments he wanted ... so, anyway.

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pianowolfi

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #5 on: April 12, 2009, 01:16:39 PM

In my Henle edition it's also A natural. It seems to be logical, looking at the harmonic progression. In count 1 I have Ab though and this belongs to a N6 chord, but this progresses to a diminished seventh chord on beat 2 and then goes to the dominant seventh with a sus4 on beat 3 and there Ab would be definitely harmonically wrong.

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m19834

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #6 on: April 12, 2009, 01:40:07 PM

Quote from: pianowolfi on April 12, 2009, 01:16:39 PM

In my Henle edition it's also A natural. It seems to be logical, looking at the harmonic progression. In count 1 I have Ab though and this belongs to a N6 chord, but this progresses to a diminished seventh chord on beat 2 and then goes to the dominant seventh with a sus4 on beat 3 and there Ab would be definitely harmonically wrong.

I think you are looking at mm 17, where there is an Ab on beat 1. In the case of Schiff, maybe he was somewhat careless and just carried the Ab over into the next measure, but that isn't the case with Gould, I don't think (considering he even started those figurations on A natural).

Anyway, like I said, it seems silly to consider a note like this, but if it didn't matter, what would we have left ?

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pianowolfi

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #7 on: April 12, 2009, 01:50:01 PM

Quote from: K. on April 12, 2009, 01:40:07 PM

I think you are looking at mm 17, where there is an Ab on beat 1. In the case of Schiff, maybe he was somewhat careless and just carried the Ab over into the next measure, but that isn't the case with Gould, I don't think (considering he even started those figurations on A natural).

Anyway, like I said, it seems silly to consider a note like this, but if it didn't matter, what would we have left ?

Oh yeeeees sorry It's measure 17 but my edition is wrong at the measure count

arghety argh

But in m. 18 (this time the real m. 18) it's also A natural.

No I don't find it silly, it makes us think about harmony and structure of a composition.

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pianowolfi

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Re: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I

Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 02:11:01 PM

There is one famous example of a discussion about which note is right, since many decades and every pianist has to decide. It's about the Hammerklavier Sonata first mvt. m. 224-226. The discussion is about whether it's right to play A or A# It's most likely that Beethoven forgot to put a natural sign before the A. At least that's Brendel's and also my opinion. But many great pianists, among them Gilels, play A#.

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Topic: Bach, Prelude in g minor, WTC bk I (Read 5044 times)

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