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The greates work for solo piano and orchestra by an American composer is

Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
10 (33.3%)
Gershwin F
4 (13.3%)
Bernstein's "Age of Anxiety"
1 (3.3%)
Corigliano
0 (0%)
Rorem 1
0 (0%)
Rorem 2
1 (3.3%)
McDowell 1
3 (10%)
McDowell 2
1 (3.3%)
Barber
3 (10%)
Rachmaninov's Paganini Rhapsody
5 (16.7%)
Schoenberg
0 (0%)
Bartok 3
0 (0%)
Corri
0 (0%)
Kirchner
0 (0%)
The rest of the Rorem ones
0 (0%)
Lowell Lieberman
1 (3.3%)
Beach (totally American sounding)
0 (0%)
Carter
1 (3.3%)
John Williams
0 (0%)
Menotti
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 30



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Topic: The greatest American Piano Concerto  (Read 6485 times)

Offline iumonito

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The greatest American Piano Concerto
on: April 21, 2009, 05:37:12 AM
This shall be interesting.

If you don't see your favorite in the list, mention it.

For rules, I would say the Tchaikovsky No. 1, Rachmaninov No. 3 and Prokoviev No. 3 concertos do not count, even though written for American tours and premiered in USA.

On the other hand, counter-intuitive as it may be, I think Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini and the Schoenberg concerto should count, as they were written at a time when their composers were USA citizens.
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Offline arensky

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 06:12:36 AM
Rhapsody in Blue
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 07:03:53 AM
Rhapsody in Blue

Not a piano concerto. The Concerto in F by Gershwin would be up there for me. Also, a pick of mine would be the less recognized but very highly qualified Piano Concerto No. 2 of Ned Rorem.

Offline iumonito

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 10:57:11 AM
Not a piano concerto. The Concerto in F by Gershwin would be up there for me. Also, a pick of mine would be the less recognized but very highly qualified Piano Concerto No. 2 of Ned Rorem.

Let's re-define the rules to clarify.  Rhapsody in Blue (and the Gerswhin second rhapsody) totally count.

I'll go ahead and cast my vote now for Bernstein's 2nd Symphony.

This thread is already doing something good for me; I didn't even now Rorem had one, let alone two concertos.
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline arensky

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 02:20:26 PM
Not a piano concerto. The Concerto in F by Gershwin would be up there for me. Also, a pick of mine would be the less recognized but very highly qualified Piano Concerto No. 2 of Ned Rorem.

Technically Rhapsody in Blue is not a concerto but it is by far the most well known American work for piano and orchestra. Eighty to ninety years ago, people wondered who would write "the great American" novel or symphony. It seems that in music the symphony and it's sonata allegro form were not what serious American music was about. The USA has it's own thing going, and Rhapsody in Blue personifies that in sound, whether it is technically a concerto or not. And it has become part of the international repertoire, unlike the other pieces in the poll (except for the Barber, to an extent). After R in B I would put the Gershwin F major and the Barber concerti. Age of Anxiety and the Rorem Left Hand (the one in seven movements) Concerto are right up there too. Giancarlo Menotti wrote a good piano concerto, don't know why it's not played more.
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 04:44:53 PM
The Beach has always been a favourite of mine.

For the earlier american concerti, the Concerto da Camera by Corri is worth visiting.

Have yet to receive my recording of the Kirchner Concerti, but i have heard they are astounding.

If Weigl could be counted, i guess his concerto for the left hand would be on my list.

Don't really know much about the Americans to be honest.

Thal
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Offline weissenberg2

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 08:18:35 PM
and where is Mr.Liebermann?
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 09:28:47 AM
Have yet to receive my recording of the Kirchner Concerti, but i have heard they are astounding.

Which Kirchner? Leon Kirchner? If so, I don't think he will be to your liking. Do look into some other Americans though. I personally CANNOT stand the Beach concerto, even though I do love romantic piano concertos. It just doesn't work for me, and the rest of her music doesn't really do it for me either. I like MacDowell, another romantic American, but his music (nor Beach's) doesn't sound American, so I won't mention them or any other early American composers in this thread.

This thread is already doing something good for me; I didn't even now Rorem had one, let alone two concertos.

He has at least 4-5 piano concertos, I believe. I have only heard three of them: the Piano Concerto No. 2, the Piano Concerto in Six Movements, and the Piano Concerto for the Left Hand. All 3 are very different, but they are all great. The Piano Concerto No. 2 (from 1950 I believe) is the front runner though.

and where is Mr.Liebermann?

I don't think he belongs in this thread. His piano concertos sound like a bad mix between Barber and John Williams. I like them, but they're more of a guilty pleasure. Speaking of Barber, his piano concerto qualifies for me.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 11:46:18 AM
Which Kirchner? Leon Kirchner? If so, I don't think he will be to your liking.

It is Leon.

You never know old chap.

I am well into the 20th century now.

Thal
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Offline arensky

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 05:13:11 PM
Which Kirchner? Leon Kirchner? If so, I don't think he will be to your liking. Do look into some other Americans though. I personally CANNOT stand the Beach concerto, even though I do love romantic piano concertos. It just doesn't work for me, and the rest of her music doesn't really do it for me either. I like MacDowell, another romantic American, but his music (nor Beach's) doesn't sound American, so I won't mention them or any other early American composers in this thread.

I agree with you about Beach, I've never liked her music very much, particularly the piano concerto.

You raise an interesting point; you say the early American composers don't sound American; what constitutes an "American" sound? I think some of MacDowell's music definitely sounds American, "A Wild Rose" and "A Deserted Farm" from the Woodland Sketches use pentatonic melody patterns and "Farm" uses a repeated flat seven in the melody that is reminiscent of Appalachian music and blues, and the Second Concerto finale has quite a folksy kick that is certainly American in it's flavor. But these are exceptions in his music although you could point to his very clear textures and clean harmonic writing as American characteristics, possibly. But I'm intrigued now; what is the American sound, aside from characteristics borrowed from jazz (Gershwin) and folk music (Copland)? What characterizes Sessions, Carter, Piston and Babbitt as American sounding? Perhaps a certain clarity in the writing, and a straightforward approach to form. Copland has these characteristics too. Interesting topic.


Quote
His piano concertos sound like a bad mix between Barber and John Williams.

;D

Well said. Academic drivel.

BTW the Gershwin Concerto in F is also in the international repertory of pianists, I overlooked that in my first post.

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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 05:13:19 AM
It is Leon.

You never know old chap.

I am well into the 20th century now.

Thal

Oh really? You must tell me more, for I thought you were only into blatantly tonal/common practice music, which would explain your penchant for early Romanticism.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 07:23:44 AM
Oh yeh, love me common practice music.

Probably because it requires no intellegince.

Thal
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Offline healdie

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 10:19:52 AM
Aaron Copland
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Offline weissenberg2

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #13 on: April 23, 2009, 03:15:34 PM
Barber. By the way Rachmaninoff's third concerto was written for an American tour.
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #14 on: April 23, 2009, 05:07:40 PM
Barber. By the way Rachmaninoff's third concerto was written for an American tour.
Aaron Copland

Do you guys wish to elaborate on your choices?

Oh yeh, love me common practice music.

Probably because it requires no intellegince.

Thal

Just because something is common practice doesn't mean it is easy to listen to. And just because something doesn't use common practice harmony doesn't mean that it is difficult to listen to. Also, you must tell me about your recent forays into 20th century music.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #15 on: April 23, 2009, 05:12:43 PM

Just because something is common practice means it is easy to listen to.

Did you leave something out there old chap?

Thal ;D
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #16 on: April 23, 2009, 06:22:31 PM
Did you leave something out there old chap?

Thal ;D

I did, and it has been fixed. I am sure you understood my statement, though.

But still, please do respond to my post.

Offline cherub_rocker1979

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 01:44:55 AM
I personally enjoy the Barber and Liebermann concertos very much.  By the way, Liebermann has written 3, so it'd be nice if the original poster could correct this in the poll.  I'm with you all on not liking the Amy Beach concerto.  For some reason people were raving about it in my piano concerto lit class last semester and we spent some time listening to it while following the score and I didn't care for it at all.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 04:24:19 AM
By the way, Liebermann has written 3, so it'd be nice if the original poster could correct this in the poll.

Yes, but the third one has not been recorded, so no one knows what it sounds like (except for those at the premiere). He also has a Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini for piano and orchestra, but that hasn't been recorded either. I would hope for better results, given that his style has changed a bit since then and has become a bit more interesting (I'm going off his nocturnes, which show a gradual progression of his style, in my opinion).

Is anyone here a fan of the Roger Sessions Piano Concerto or Walter Piston Piano Concertino? I don't think those pieces are amazing but they have some value to them, and someone else might think they're great. I think of composers like Piston and Sessions (and Barber) as sort of the generation after Copland, and of equal importance. Liebermann and Tsontakis seem to be the latest generation, which is largely neoromantic. Speaking of which, does anyone here like Tsontakis's Man of Sorrows, another work for piano and orchestra? It definitely has a unique sound, but I think I need to listen to it a few more times before suggesting or rejecting it.

Offline healdie

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 10:42:36 AM
Do you guys wish to elaborate on your choices?


well that was my vote I don't think it needed much more elaborating
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 03:56:05 AM
Who suggested John Williams? I don't remember him coming up. He needs to get off that list.

Offline communist

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #21 on: April 28, 2009, 08:13:53 PM
Who suggested John Williams? I don't remember him coming up. He needs to get off that list.


does he even have a piano concerto?
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #22 on: April 29, 2009, 01:25:00 AM

does he even have a piano concerto?

No, which is why I said he should get off.

Offline indutrial

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #23 on: April 29, 2009, 05:34:18 AM
Is anyone here a fan of the Roger Sessions Piano Concerto or Walter Piston Piano Concertino?

I'm definitely a fan of the former work mentioned here, though I haven't heard it in a while. Out of the concertos listed here, I honestly have no idea which is my personal favorite, since I've not heard them all. A favorite of mine that's not mentioned is Wuorinen's third concerto, a piece that I've found myself listening to again and again in the past few years. The second movement is particularly striking and features some really gripping orchestral choices. Wuorinen's expert use of percussion instruments has interested me since I first heard his Fast Fantasy for cello and drums and the Percussion Quartet. The third concerto visits similar territory, especially in the beginning of the piece, which goes on for nearly 5 minutes before a non-percussion instrument joins in (in addition to the piano itself).

As he's certainly one of my favorite American composers (next to Carter, Rzewski, etc.) and one who's been stunning me with new work after new work during the present time, I'm reluctant to say that the third concerto is my favorite, since I've not yet heard his last three works for piano and orchestra, which include the Fourth Piano Concerto (2003), Flying to Kahani (2005), and Time Regained (2009), none of which have been put out on record yet. Based on the superb quality of his recent Second Piano Quintet, I would have to hold out on my opinion until I heard these recent works.

Offline sharon_f

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #24 on: April 29, 2009, 05:07:11 PM
Well, if you're going to include Rachmaninoff I would go with the Variations. If you want to go with an American-born composer, I would have to say the Barber, with the Rhapsody in Blue a very close second.
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Offline weissenberg2

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #25 on: May 03, 2009, 09:53:27 PM
Gershwin's variations on "I got rhythm" deserves a say.
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Offline arensky

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #26 on: May 04, 2009, 10:43:39 PM
Indeed it does! An unjustly underplayed work, and a very interesting and different look at the theme and variations format.
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Offline magio

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #27 on: September 11, 2010, 02:04:51 PM
I personally don't like american concertos but i would easily chose
1)Gershwin concerto in f
2)Gershwin r. in blue
2)Copland clarineto concerto :)

Offline mnmleung

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #28 on: April 13, 2011, 02:06:41 PM
Barber's piano concerto gets my vote
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #29 on: April 13, 2011, 06:05:02 PM
I have recently experienced the Flagello Concerti and was terribly impressed, especially with the first.

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Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #30 on: October 29, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
For me, gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue gets my vote. Rachmaninoff's Paganini Rhapsody gets second .
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #31 on: October 30, 2011, 07:13:41 AM
How is the Rachmaninoff Paganini Rhapsody an American piano concerto? It isn't even a piano concerto, and it was written by a born and bred Russian who just happened to live in America.

Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: The greatest American Piano Concerto
Reply #32 on: October 30, 2011, 09:00:46 AM
Don't blame me, Retro. I saw it was on the poll so I voted for it.
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