I think the idea of practicing these scales and arpeggios is so that when encountered in music, the fingering and motions are already ingrained into your hands.
I think you are correct about what the idea is.And I think the idea is pretty much obviously wrong for piano (though it works for most other instruments). Here's why. There aren't any four octave scales in the repertoire, I doubt if there are many two octave scales, and even one octave scales are not common. But it gets worse. The fingering you use in scale practice is never going to work in music, even if you only encounter a small fragment of a scale. That's if you're just playing a melody line, like in a lead sheet. What if you're playing harmonies, say a SATB hymn or a Bach chorale? Yes, the top line might be scalewise, but your right hand is playing several notes at once, and scales don't help. I think scales are beneficial for beginners in learning keyboard geometry and in absorbing the concept of key center and tonality, and possibly in learning to recognize groups of notes in sightreading, as opposed to reading note by note. As a measure of dexterity they are easily quantifyable. You can either play a scale at 160 or you can't. But since you will never use that scale with that fingering in music, the relevance is questionable.
What? You see scales all over the place in music, and I probably use the fingering I use in scales. There are very very very few exceptions.
What do you mean you can either play a scale at 160 or you can't? Of course that develops!! Every beginner must start off slowly.
I really think you should take a look at the piano repertoire, you will find millions of scales, You mention lead sheets and Bach chorals....I don't think many people here are thinking about lead sheets, and as for the chorales....they are not piano pieces!!!!!!!!!!
I have only once encountered a full one octave scale in music. I played it with the standard fingering. In my experience that is extremely rare. More commonly we find four or five note fragments of scales, and in context you can't use the same fingering. More commonly the scale hand is playing other notes in that measure, and you can't possibly use scale fingers.
I don't understand how some people have never done them. I was given scales within the first few weeks of piano lessons, and did them for years with teachers and for exams. They have to be learnt, it just can't be avoided. How can you expect to develop any technique without being able to play scales?
I see it as a debate between general/specific skills.I'm coming more and more to believe that being a thorough, well rounded musician can be viewed as being all about the basics. General skills like these, being able to connect a string of notes cleanly, having a balanced hand, balanced body at different ends of the keyboard, dynamic control (etc). I believe that exercises are a great way to isolate the different elements for mastery..
I would like to agree. There must be some transfer from general to specific. But I think we've learned the transfer is less than total, and the implication is that if time is limited, the percentage applied to the general skills should be reduced. Apparently it isn't the same skill in the different applications, or at least it's enough different that you have to practice both.You can back off another step and become even more general. Would better core strength built through weightlifting and gymnastics help you play the Goldberg? Of course. But only a tiny amount. Would scales? Sure. Probably even a larger amount. But maybe still tiny. Jazz pianists seem to use a lot of scalar patterns, not always major diatonic but often various modes. I would think scale practice would be more useful to them than, say to a church pianist who will always play at least two notes in the right hand and never use scalar fingering.
Then it seems to be an issue of a persons goals and position. For some, time may not be such an issue. For some, scalar passages will be more or less important. Another point - I think it would be negligent not to at least show a beginner how to play scales.
Jazz pianists seem to use a lot of scalar patterns, not always major diatonic but often various modes. I would think scale practice would be more useful to them than, say to a church pianist who will always play at least two notes in the right hand and never use scalar fingering.
There is one other way I use scales for technique, but for the mental technique of coordination, rhythm and independence of hands and fingers rather than that of pure finger dexterity. I set myself all sorts of peculiar puzzles, for example play a scale of one type and key in one hand, with another different combination in the other hand. It is always possible to increase the difficulty until I cannot do it on my first try. The residual hand independence generated from doing this off and on for years seems to have helped my improvisation a great deal, although I do not know why, and neither do I know anybody else who does it. Just a few minutes a day does the trick.
I never practise scales. Maybe I should but I don't know where to find scale exercises at advanced level.
Topic: How often (or how long) do you practice scales? 