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Topic: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata  (Read 4711 times)

Offline punkpianist360

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Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
on: May 22, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Hey everyone,

     I just wanted to see if any of you know anything or have played Sciabin's 1st Sonata, since I'm gonna be learning it.  I already know it's difficult, I just want to know what kind of technical difficulties it has, and if any of you recommend any Chopin or any other etudes to practice to help overcome what the Sonata brings.


Thanks,
Paul 
Inspire, be Inspired, and Aspire.


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Offline weissenberg2

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 02:44:33 PM
well I have never played this piece before but I just examined the score and it looks like you should work on:

general left hand strength: the etude op.8 no.12 in D-Sharp minor would be good.

octaves: the Chopin etude in B Minor would be good (even though the octaves don't look that hard)

arpeggio: the Chopin and Chopin-Godowsky op.10 no.1

repeated chords: they briefly come up a few times but better to get them good now so you will not have to deal with them (the prelude in D minor op.15 no.24 would be good)

jumps: has some tough looking jumps (Liszt Paganini etude no.3 in G-Sharp minor "La Campenella" should help you with that).

Hope this helps

"A true friend is one who likes you despite your achievements." - Arnold Bennett

Offline scarabin

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 04:48:45 PM
 Yeah right, practice the hardest piano pieces in the world then you manage it  8)
Dude, after reading your comment here-

"Re: Etude, composed to be as hard as possible
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 08:08:09 PM » 
it does not look that hard (from what I saw of the score)"                                                 

 I doubt you can even read notes, weissenberg2

Offline scarabin

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LOL
Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 05:04:40 PM
 ::) Godowsky etudes  ::)

Offline anne126

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #4 on: May 22, 2009, 11:18:33 PM
If you really want to learn it, I wouldn't waste time learning Chopin etudes. Simply overcome whatever difficulties are in the piece, you will learn it faster.

I would advise being able to sight-read fairly well, or it could take a very long time to "learn".

Offline weissenberg2

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 01:13:22 PM
Yeah right, practice the hardest piano pieces in the world then you manage it  8)
Dude, after reading your comment here-

"Re: Etude, composed to be as hard as possible
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 08:08:09 PM » 
it does not look that hard (from what I saw of the score)"                                                 

 I doubt you can even read notes, weissenberg2

well maybe I got a little to crazy about suggesting what he does to get prepared for the piece. But you don't have to be an ass about it and if I couldn't read notes I would not be able to identify arpeggios octaves and repeated chords, and since you did not even give him any suggestions you should not be talking. and maybe I did not thoroughly read the score on that etude that was composed to be as hard as possible and it may not look as hard as it is and why are you responding to another thread on this one?
"A true friend is one who likes you despite your achievements." - Arnold Bennett

Offline weissenberg2

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 01:18:16 PM
Yeah right, practice the hardest piano pieces in the world then you manage it  8)
Dude, after reading your comment here-

"Re: Etude, composed to be as hard as possible
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 08:08:09 PM » 
it does not look that hard (from what I saw of the score)"                                                 

 I doubt you can even read notes, weissenberg2

and if you have a strong left hand you just have to learn it slowly (but if the composer did not try to play it himself on the piano it may not fit under the hand well).
"A true friend is one who likes you despite your achievements." - Arnold Bennett

Offline scarabin

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #7 on: May 23, 2009, 02:11:05 PM
Its because I noticed that you are trying to show off, by refering to the Godowsky etudes like theres nothing to them, thats an insult to us who struggle with them

Offline weissenberg2

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #8 on: May 23, 2009, 07:15:33 PM
Its because I noticed that you are trying to show off, by refering to the Godowsky etudes like theres nothing to them, thats an insult to us who struggle with them


I was not trying to show off. The only reason why I referred the Chopin-Godowsky etudes was because the normal Chopin does not help the left hand, and since I can not play the Chopin-Godowsky etudes myself I do not see why I would act like they are nothing.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.
"A true friend is one who likes you despite your achievements." - Arnold Bennett

Offline nanabush

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 05:35:25 AM
Actually, I took a look through this about two years ago (only the first movement).  I have played some Chopin Etudes, and am currently picking a Scriabin one to work on over the summer. I kinda ran out of steam at about page 9 of 14 (from my edition).  I'll try to give you an idea of what I remember being difficult about the first movement.

As mentioned earlier, the stuff at the beginning can be worked out with time, you don't necessarily need a study to help you get this.  There's a large arpeggio in the right hand that comes up alot,  and some joint and alternating chords with both hands.  

The first thing that I found very tough was the left hand pattern of 16ths which comes up ALOT, and is the reason why I stopped playing this (I wasn't learning with a teacher, just on my own, so it wasn't a huge deal for me stopping learning it).  This left hand stuff alone could make up an etude, and IMO is much more difficult than the left hand stuff in his Op 42 etude in C# minor which is one of his more common etudes.  It's tough on its own, and there are big awkward chord leaps in the right hand while doing so.  I tried breaking down the left hand stuff into sections.  In the first 16th part, the first three notes make an Fm chord (lacking the Ab though), then there's two C's making an octave, then an Fm chord in second inversion, then another in root.  So I had split it into a group of three, then two, then three, then three, then another octave of two notes.  It was fine to remember for the left hand, but it scrambled my brain right up putting that with the right hand.  I was relieved to see that there was another 16th configuration of groups of 3 arpeggiated notes that you could get with a simple 5-3-1 fingering.  For me, even thinking about doing these up to speed made this mvmt way too tough.

In the Meno Mosso section, there isn't much raw technical difficulty, but I found it pretty tricky to get decent phrasing without over pedalling.  

There's also some stuff before the first/second ending that I would have preferred reading on three staffs, but that's just my personal preference.

I find in Scriabin's stuff, he creates his own technical problems that you can't really solve by playing a standard etude like the op10/25 stuff.  You'd probably be better off looking through Scriabin's own etudes to find similar stuff to this; the left hand fast stuff killed me, and the frantic jumps throughout were just exhausting to get down.  It was just too much to take on as a 'for-fun' piece  ;)

Interested in discussing:

-Prokofiev Toccata
-Scriabin Sonata 2

Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Scriabin's 1st Piano Sonata
Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 06:15:00 AM
 
Memorizing it as quickly as you can do so accurately at a slow tempo will be a great help for whatever methods you use to conquer it's technical difficulties (and I don't mean being off book for these challenges...just having it so firmly ingrained in your system that even at a very slow tempo you can play it from memory.)

For food for thought on the musical side, I strongly urge you to get your hands on Igor Zhukov's massive recording of the 1st sonata. If you think it is too slow, listen again...it's a PHENOMENAL recording. He interprets it from the end, an arch which gets straight to the heart of the piece. The bass attacks in the third movement come off with as much shattering intensity as the devastating hammer blows, well placed in Gustav Mahler's tragic 6th Symphony, and never have I ever heard such a balanced of the poetic and the dramatic.
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