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The 3 most difficult chopin etudes? (Read 60978 times)

Offline emilye

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #50 on: December 11, 2010, 07:12:46 PM »
The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
In my opinion the most difficult is etude no. 1/10
                                              etude no. 2/10
                                              etude no. 6/25
Now playing:
Prokofiev - Sonate in d-minor op. 14
Bach/Busoni - Chaccone in d-minor
Bach - II Partita in c-minor
F. Chopin - Barcarole in F sharp major, Op. 60
                Ballade in f-minor

Offline avetma

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #51 on: December 11, 2010, 11:53:39 PM »
That would be op.10 no.2, op.25 no.6 and op.25 no.11, without any doubt.

Offline nearenough

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #52 on: December 12, 2010, 04:45:45 AM »
No 1 Op 10 is doable if you relax your wrist enough, sort of slap your hand down at each segment and let the fingers fly in the air without stiffness.

No 2 Op 10 doesn't let you do that. There's no chance of rest and relaxation except for one eight rest somewhere he must have put in as a joke. The second page toward the bottom in the development section Chopin sticks awide-spaced third which mades you had stretch and further put strain on the 4-5 fingers. I note Ashkenazy and Richter each play both in succession in concert and Horowitz declared he could not play #1 (which I don't believe for a minute) and Rubinstein never played either.

#8 op 10 ask for trick runs up and down and clodhopping chords in random direction with the left had which are hard to coordinate.

Op 25 #6 the thirds upward are easy as you can do index finger slides from black key to white keys, but no on certain downward directed where you have to jump the thumb to an adjacent note which slows you down.

Bringing out the middle fingers melody in the slow lyrical section of the octave etude takes a bit of determination.

Has anyone heard of Amedee Mereaux as friend of Chopin wrote dozens of complex etudes played in You TUbe.

Also my favorite, the Dohnanyi E major concert etude op 28 (#5 of 6)  had a romantic, sweet, flowing exploratory theme of wonderful freedom. Dohnanyi is under played and a revival is due.

Offline forgottenbooks

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #53 on: January 24, 2011, 05:03:47 PM »
I've only tried playing three: Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 1, and Op. 25 No. 10, and they're all hard. Personally, I think Op. 25 No. 1 is the hardest. I love octaves, so Op. 25 No. 10 is relatively easy for me, as long as I don't run out of energy.
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Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #54 on: January 24, 2011, 05:52:33 PM »
25/11: is the hardest, because it requires the most technique
10/2: It is tricky because of fatigue and its hard to get that 'funny feeling' in the music

I cannot call a 3rd, because i found all the other etudes quite easier and none (except the 2 above) stood out.
1+1=11

Offline stevebob

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #55 on: January 24, 2011, 06:05:08 PM »
What does "the most technique" mean?
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline john11inc

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #56 on: January 24, 2011, 06:56:55 PM »
With Etudes, it's a really tough call, because your previous experience is going to play a much bigger factor, seeing as how they test specific techniques.  However, I think the ones typically considered the most difficult are the ones that have already been stated; it seems as though you have a pretty unequivocal answer.  10-2, 25-6 and 25-11 are usually considered the hardest.  10-1, 10-4, 10-10 and 25-8 are the other ones that will usually show up on these lists, but less consistently.  25-10 might pop up now and then, but I personally disagree with that choice.  10-8 is one that rarely shows up on these lists, but one I personally find very tough; more-so than 10-1 and 10-4, at least, but that's mostly because I'm left-handed.
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Offline mephisto

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #57 on: January 24, 2011, 08:17:54 PM »
It depends on how fast you play them.

Offline ahinton

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #58 on: January 24, 2011, 08:43:16 PM »
With Etudes, it's a really tough call, because your previous experience is going to play a much bigger factor, seeing as how they test specific techniques.  However, I think the ones typically considered the most difficult are the ones that have already been stated; it seems as though you have a pretty unequivocal answer.  10-2, 25-6 and 25-11 are usually considered the hardest.  10-1, 10-4, 10-10 and 25-8 are the other ones that will usually show up on these lists, but less consistently.  25-10 might pop up now and then, but I personally disagree with that choice.  10-8 is one that rarely shows up on these lists, but one I personally find very tough; more-so than 10-1 and 10-4, at least, but that's mostly because I'm left-handed.
I do so much agree - 10/8 is indeed a tough call (although all of 10 are impossible to me as a non-pianist!); check out the first Godowsky version that turns it on its head and the problems do not exactly dissipate!

All that said, the achievement of Op. 10 in its glorious entirety at the hands of someone of barely 20 years of age remains - for me, at least - utterly incredible; yes, you bet that Chopin was "good at what he did"!...

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Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #59 on: January 24, 2011, 10:36:06 PM »
What does "the most technique" mean?

I suppose that wasnt entirely clear. What i ment was that this etude, compared to the other chopin etudes, seems to require a wider range of techniques. At least that is what i felt when studying this one, and what other students find difficult.

In general it is ofcourse hard to say wich is difficult and wich not. It all depends on somebody's history, build of hands way of thinking.

Gyzzzmo
1+1=11

Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #60 on: November 03, 2011, 01:15:38 AM »
op 10 no 2, op 25 no 10,  op 25 no 11
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline snixder

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #61 on: November 04, 2012, 07:26:31 AM »
Without doubt op. 10 no. 2 is in the top three, and in my opinion is also the toughest. Out of the other op. 10 pieces, the only other piece that even comes close in terms of technical difficulty is op. 10 no. 7, and only a small section in the middle of op. 10 no. 1. Most others are reasonable to do, except a couple that unfortunately require more of a physical rather than technical ability. Of course, all are playable to the average sized hand, though I suppose some have to put a little more work into it!

Of his second set of etudes, however, there are a number of technically demanding pieces, of which I would advise no. 6, 8 and 10 to be the toughest to an inexperienced player. While no. 11 does draw on many technical elements throughout both op. 10 and 25, to me it's more the stamina required to play it. I find no. 12 is not nearly as hard as discussed here; certainly I think it easier than all I've mentioned above.

However, I most definitely agree with an earlier comment that playing these studies consecutively are much more difficult than any one piece alone.

Offline j_menz

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #62 on: November 04, 2012, 10:25:51 PM »


And why? God knows theres a new one of these pointless exercises created every week or so!
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Offline ahinton

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #63 on: November 04, 2012, 11:08:20 PM »


And why? God knows theres a new one of these pointless exercises created every week or so!
So it would sadly seem - but, while we're at this particular one, the three most difficult Chopin études are any three that anyone cares to choose.

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Offline evitaevita

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #64 on: November 05, 2012, 01:02:54 PM »
2. op. 10 no. 2 - this etude is more technically demanding, but it's idea is that when you overcome the technical challenge, you need to play the chromatics so smooth, that it sounds like a much simpler piece (like most of Chopin's music of course).
3. op. 25. no. 6 - the double thirds are really hard to play, the technical element is really hard.

I think I agree about the Op.10 No.2 and Op.25 No.6. I've played Op.10 No.2 and although I've been used to chromatic scales, it's still really difficult for me to play them smoothly. Op.10 No.11 is not so difficult for me. But, I can't be sure, because I haven't play them all.

However, only technically demanding etudes have been mentioned here. Personally, I've almost never heard any student (or generally amateur pianist) playing musically difficult etudes (such as Op.25 No.7) with perfect sound and real emotion (this is not very clear, but I can't describe in words what musicality is).
"I'm a free person; I feel terribly free. They could put me in chains and I still would be free because my thoughts would be mine - and that's all I want to have."
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Offline 49410enrique

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #65 on: November 05, 2012, 01:09:23 PM »
... (this is not very clear, but I can't describe in words what musicality is).
dont worry, most people can't seem to do it with a piano either. ;)

Offline asuhayda

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #66 on: November 05, 2012, 03:35:37 PM »
Op. 10 No. 2
Op. 10 No. 4
Op. 25 No. 6 <--  AHHHHH!!!
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Offline chopianologue

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #67 on: November 16, 2012, 08:41:14 PM »
op.25 no.6 - i worked on third trills upward and it beatable. But when they come - the downward third trill scale - it's impossible to play legato all the notes. You have to jump chord to chord with sixteenths and it means ''slowness''
It looks impossible to play with given speed.

op.10 no.1 - i worked on this too and committed suicide nearly. I totally HATE this etude. All the Chopin etudes have emotion and purity anyway. But op.10 no.1 is so ''etudish''. I feel like playing Czerny...

op.25 no.11 - Ahh, one of my favourites, but right hand is just... wacky...
Anyway, it's a great piece for piano literature...

Actually, if you work on trills everyday, with 4th and 5th fingers(providing that keep other fingers stable) op.10 no.2 is not so hard to play. Not so hard to play but, still hard to play, you know...
Short and thick fingered pianists can play op.10 no.4 perfectly, etudes which improves finger speed. Long fingered pianists can play op.25 no.10 - octaves perfectly, etudes which improves hand stability...


Offline pencilart3

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #68 on: December 21, 2014, 04:46:59 AM »
10/2 "Chromatic"
25/11 "Winter wind"
25/6 "Thirds"
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Offline visitor

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #69 on: December 21, 2014, 12:57:43 PM »

Offline j_menz

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #70 on: December 21, 2014, 10:25:51 PM »


Given this thread has had 20 thousand plus views........
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline visitor

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #71 on: December 21, 2014, 10:28:50 PM »
Given this thread has had 20 thousand plus views........
i thought the question was code for something actually interesting  :)

Offline j_menz

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #72 on: December 21, 2014, 10:41:47 PM »
i thought the question was code for something actually interesting  :)

It is. Just read every fifth word, backwards and it gives you the plot to Game of Thrones.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ahinton

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #73 on: December 22, 2014, 07:20:13 AM »
Game of Thrones.
Is that yet another of someone's nicknames for a Chopin étude?...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline ignaceii

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #74 on: January 05, 2015, 09:33:43 AM »
Bullshit post. As a coming big pianist said in piano international. "We need more philosophical piano playing than virtuoso", no He could play Petroushka to. Look at Volodos' latest recital. Young Schubert sonata, kinderscenen,...
He was once the biggest Difficult piano pieces player...

Try to think more like them, cause the rest is worth nothing.
I dislike this kind of sensation sensing posts...

Offline toughbo

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #75 on: January 05, 2015, 07:41:37 PM »
@ignaceii, what post are you referring to? And what coming big player is this?

Offline george_gu777

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #76 on: February 09, 2015, 03:38:40 AM »
Op 10 no. 1.
Op 25 no. 6.
op 25 no.11.

Offline rmchenry

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #77 on: February 13, 2015, 09:36:55 AM »
Chopin's etudes are all difficult, but if you need to know which are the most difficult you need to look at two aspects here: the technical difficulty, and the interpertational/emotional difficulty. Chopin's etudes were the first etudes that demanded more than technical difficulty, it demanded musical and emotional mastery to execute right. 
happy etude playing, though ;)

Was it not Alfred Cortot who said that the Chopin Etudes were "as inaccessible to the musician without technique as they are to the technician without musicianship"?

Offline fifthelegy

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #78 on: February 13, 2015, 10:39:59 AM »
I've never been able to play through the entirety of 10/2 at proper speed without taking breaks and without my face contorted in a pained expression
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #79 on: February 19, 2015, 02:44:58 AM »
A while ago I posted that the thirds etude was the third (ironic, huh?  ;D) most difficult etude. Well I officially take that back. Once you get down the thirds, it's just patient practice and fingering memorization. Therefore, I officially take by my previous post. Yes, maybe some people just can't do thirds, but I would say the three hardest after playing, listening, and studying are -

25/11 Winterwind - I give out after a few pages
10/1 Waterfall - My 15 y.o. hands just don't fit it.
10/2 Chromatique - Just look at the music - you will see why it's one of the hardest.
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Offline stevensk

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #80 on: February 20, 2015, 07:26:17 PM »
Whats the point?

Offline aweshana21

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #81 on: January 24, 2016, 12:51:19 AM »
winterwind
torrent
Op 10 no1

Offline piulento

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #82 on: January 24, 2016, 04:31:02 PM »
I personally never found 'ocean' that difficult relatively to some other "simpler" etudes. Don't get me wrong, it's hard AF, and it's not that I'm that good of a pianist, but I found it 'easier' compared to other etudes that are considered easier (E.G - 10/10, 10/5, 10/8 etc).
For me, it'd be 10/2, 25/11, 10/7.
Guess I'm just more of a "power over accuracy" kind of guy (One of my worst weaknesses when it comes to the piano).

Offline jimroof

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #83 on: January 24, 2016, 07:56:53 PM »
I disagree, op.25 no.6 is easy if you can do the thirds quickly enough. op.10 no.1 is easy once it gets in your fingers.

That's sort of saying it is easy to beat LeBron James in a game of one-one-one if you can move faster and jump higher and have better accuracy than he has.

I am working Opus 25 #6.  You are sort of right, but not many pianists develop the technique that MAKES this piece even POSSIBLE.  I am also reading through 10 #2 as well since it develops some of the same part of the hand.  In fact, I just read through 10,2 about 15 minutes ago at... probably half tempo.  I went back to 25,6 and I was surprised at how much easier it seemed after some 3,4,5 work in 10/2.
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #84 on: January 24, 2016, 10:47:47 PM »
I was a noob when writing that last post. Sorry everyone

25/11
25/6
10/2

The chopin competition probably thinks so too, judging by the fact that you had to pick one of these etudes to play in the prelim round.
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Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #85 on: January 24, 2016, 11:11:24 PM »
I don't actually think Winter Wind is that hard once you internalise all the rh patterns.

My 3: 10/2, 25/6, 10/7.

Offline expressman70

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #86 on: January 28, 2016, 06:20:47 AM »
(Most of them on cold mornings  ;D )

I would have to agree with 10#2 being the top of the list:


followed by 10#1


and 25#6 (both for sheer speed value).


I have to say I've always loved the sound and feel of 10#4 - especially on a big piano ;)

It's interesting to note that, of the difficult etudes cited in the Op 10 series, #9, #11 and #12 deal only specifically with Left Hand virtuoso technique, with #4 and #8 containing some difficult LH aspects shared with the RH. For the rest, the LH is 'along for the ride'.

Ian

It is considered a norm to call op 10 n 12 pretty comfortable. No 9 is literally sight readable. It is definitely more harder sounding than playing.

Offline pencilart3

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #87 on: January 28, 2016, 06:51:31 AM »
I don't actually think Winter Wind is that hard

 ::)

Ok, I'll look for it in the audition room. Beyond the enormous technical difficulties it is a musical monster. Pedaling, ironing out accents, crescendos/diminuendos, remaining controlled and relaxed, and bringing out the left hand melody amidst the chaos in the right hand is much more difficult than it seems it should be.

10/1 is not as hard, in my opinion. If you can spend 1.5 hours/day on it, you can play it ;)
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Offline musikalischer_wirbelwind_280

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #88 on: January 28, 2016, 07:19:56 AM »
Quote
I have been thinking about this topic.....really, Etudes is mostly a study of techniques.....
And to be honest, they are ALL difficult to play, let alone to learn   unless a pianist has spent several years to learn these Etudes...

However, I have relearned 25/8, which kills my right hand pinkie(ouchy, ouch!) and then to
learn the 10/1,  (oh, my gosh!)    Shocked   with that tempo in which it *supposed* to by played,
it will take a while to master that,(I am merely a humble pianist), and the next Etude that I plan to learn will probably be the next easiest that my fingers can go without tripping up!   Tongue

Yes, I looked at 10/2 and that makes me shutter.......

best wishes,

go12_3

You should really go a little easier on yourself, chap. Forcing yourself to play something even when it's making your body complain is far from wise, and could actually produce long-lasting harm.
Like Leon Fleischer said: (an extract from Oliver Sacks' "Musicophilia")

"Recently Leon Fleischer came to visit me a few days before he was to give a performance at Carnegie Hall. He spoke of how his own dystonia had first hit him: "I remember the piece that brought it on", he began, and described how he had been practicing the Schubert Wanderer Fantasy for eight or nine hours a day. Then he had to take an enforced rest - he had a small accident to his right thumb and could not play for a few days.
      It was on his return to the keyboard after this that he noticed the fourth and fifth fingers of that hand starting to curl under. His reaction to this, he said, was to work through it, as athletes are often told to "work through" the pain. But "pianists" he said, "should not work through pain or other symptoms. I warn other musicians to treat themselves as athletes of the small muscles. They make extraordinary demands on the small muscles of their hands and fingers."


And as you can see, he sure knew what he was talking about.

Best!
M.W.

Offline virtuoso80

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #89 on: January 28, 2016, 09:07:58 AM »
Op. 10, No. 2 without a doubt, as many have mentioned.

Op. 25, No. 3 is my personal one. I can never get it to sound right, and always skip it.

It's hard to pick a third, but I'll go with Op. 10, No. 4

Offline chopinlover01

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Re: The 3 most difficult chopin etudes?
«Reply #90 on: January 29, 2016, 06:24:18 AM »
The question is impossible to answer. RDS may find Winter Wind rather approachable but still hard, whereas I may find it impossible but, as I do, find 10/2 to be an etude that doesn't seem too horrible in comparison to say, 10/7.
10/1 also is a beast; all about rapid contraction and expansion of the hand.
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