Easy Sorabji

[quirky]

I was just wondering earlier today as to why we hear so little about any work of Sorabji other than Opus Clavicembalisticum? To be honest, I am sick of hearing about OC!

Does anyone know of any other work of his that is worth playing for more than mere novelty value?

[thalbergmad]

Sorabji's transcription of Bach's Chromatic Fantasia has always been a favourite of mine.

I cannot recall any other piece that has moved me personally, but that could be due to a shortage of intelligence and beard length on my part.

Thal

[pies]

a

[retrouvailles]

Look at any of the pastiches. They're still very very hard, but very moving, especially the Sadko pastiche.

[lontano]

While not easy, the nocturnes "Djami", "Le jardin parfume" and "Gulistan" are beautiful works but require similar levels of skill to perform. But unlike the infamous O.C., they don't require the super-human endurance involved with the likes of 40 min fugues (within a 4+ hour performance)!

Alistair Hinton could help here, but I believe Sorabji wrote some set(s) of short works (I think) he called Aphorisms (?) that may be both a bit easier and not long individually. There are also other short works I've seen on some compilation CDs. Check out www.sorabji-archive.co.uk and look at the details of his piano works. I'm sure there are some items there that could interest you.

L.

[birba]

Sorabji's transcription of Bach's Chromatic Fantasia has always been a favourite of mine.



Thal

Is it a transcription on the type of Busoni or does he play with the harmonies as well.  A paraphrase, so to speak.

[ahinton]

Sorabji's transcription of Bach's Chromatic Fantasia has always been a favourite of mine.

I cannot recall any other piece that has moved me personally, but that could be due to a shortage of intelligence and beard length on my part.

Thal

If you've shaved off you beard as you recently stated you had done and if you did so of your own volition rather than under external duress, you would have only yourself to blame for lack of beard length but, as has been stated many times before, beard length or existence and the music of Sorabji have no conceivable connection, as exemplified by the fact that the composer himself never had a beard, Fredrik Ullén, Jonathan Powell and (obviously!) Donna Amato don't have beards, Marc-André Roberge doesn't have a beard and, whilst I do have one, I didn't have it until almost nine years after I first discovered Sorabji's music and it is in any case very short. I cannot comment on your level of intelligence (which is the other factor that you mention).

Few of Sorabji's works are other than difficult to perform, but then there is difficulty and difficulty - and no one in his/her right mind would pretend that the Brahms or Rakhmaninov concerti, the Chopin études, the Liszt sonata, some of Beethoven's sonatas and many tens of thousands of other works involving the piano are not also difficult. In terms of general technical difficulty, the "easiest" of Sorabji's piano works are (in chronological order but in no particular order of difficulty)
Sonata no. "0"
Désir Éperdu
Quasi Habanera
In the Hothouse / Toccata
Fantaisie Espagnole
Sonata No. 1
Trois Pastiches
Prelude Interlude and Fugue
Fragment (Prelude and Fugue)
Fragment for Harold Rutland
Pasticcio Capriccioso
Chromatic Fantasia transcription
Quaere Reliqua Hujus Materiei Inter Secretiora
St. Bertrand de Comminges
some of the 100 Transcendental Studies
Prelude in E flat (Bach) transcription
20 Frammenti Aforistichi
104 Frammenti Aforistichi
Variazione Maliziosa e Perversa
4 Frammenti Aforistichi
Passeggiata Variata
Passeggiata Arlecchinesca

of which almost all have been recorded at one time or another - that's at least four hours' worth, I would say. OK, it's a relatively small proportion of his piano output as a whole, but it's hardly insubstantial. Anyone capable of playing the last five Beethoven sonatas, the Chopin Ballades, some of Albeniz's Iberia, the Rakhmaninov preludes, the Busoni sonatinas, etc. should be able quite comfortably to manage any and all of the above.

Until relatively recently, it was difficult or impossible to get hold of copies of these and most other Sorabji works and many of them existed in manuscript form only (not the best source material from which to prepare performances!), but all the once out-of-print publications are now available again and an increasing number of his previously unpublished scores are now being edited and typeset, so at least there is legible material with which to work.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Sonata no. "0"

What is the reasoning behind having a sonata no. 0?

Most composers would generally start off with 1.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

What is the reasoning behind having a sonata no. 0?

Most composers would generally start off with 1.

Thal

Since it is Sorabji I am not surprised.

[thalbergmad]

Has anyone heard the Sorabji Sonata atan2(sin(lat1) + sin(lat2), √((cos(lat1)+Bx)² + By²))??

[gep]

What is the reasoning behind having a sonata no. 0?

Most composers would generally start off with 1.

Thal

He did start with a Sonata no. 1, disregarding an earlier Sonata (for reasons unknown). When that earlier Sonata surfaced it was given the editioral title of Sonata, "No. 0".
Bruckner wrote two disowned symphonies, the one in d minor referred nowadays to as "No. 0", the even earlier one in f minor usually called simply "Study Symphony", although I've seen "No. 00" too. "Symphony -1", anyone?
By the way, Symphony "No. 0" was written after No. 1!

All best,
Gep

[ahinton]

"gep"'s reply here tells all that needs to be told. When Sorabji had written his 1919 sonata (the one that we now know as his "Piano Sonata No. 1"), he got invited to play it to Busoni in a private performance. After this most daunting experience, Busoni asked him what he wanted him to do and the young Sorabji replied that he would like him to help him to have it published, which Busoni did by writing a warm recommendation of it. Sorabi almost certainly did not tell Busoni about the sonata that he'd written two years earlier which, as we understand, seems to have been the composer's very first piano piece. "Gep" is absolutely correct to the extent that Sorabji disowned that earlier work as he felt that the sonata that he'd played to Busoni deserved to be considered as a work worthy of publication whereas the one that we now think of as "Sonata No. "0" was one that he did not consider in that light.

Best,

Alistair

[lontano]

While this is a bit off topic, I'd like to tell all who are interested that Fredrik Ullen's CD of Vol 2 of the Sorabji "100 Transcendental Studies" is now being sent to patrons (in the US at least). I just got this note from a friend in Chicago:

Yesterday I received an advance copy of Vol. 2 of the Sorabji Studies. 
Needless to say, the performances are mind-bogglingly magnificent.  (I
suppose Records International will be the first outfit to offer it for
sale over here, but that might not be for several months.)

So the glacier is finally starting to melt.

Cheers,

Lontano

[pies]

someone should rip and upload it asap

[lontano]

Has anyone heard the Sorabji Sonata atan2(sin(lat1) + sin(lat2), √((cos(lat1)+Bx)² + By²))??

Yep! Memorized it and played it in concert with John Cage's 4'33". I had to escape out the window of the men's room to avoid the irate crowd!

Now cosine that!

[thalbergmad]

I'd like to tell all who are interested that Fredrik Ullen's CD of Vol 2 of the Sorabji "100 Transcendental Studies" is now being sent to patrons (in the US at least).

Indeed, this was front page news in the Guardian yesterday.

I might dedicate a small amount of hard drive space for this when someone copies it, but i hardly think it is worth money.

Thal

[ahinton]

Indeed, this was front page news in the Guardian yesterday.

I had not realised that alleged illicit and unauthorised mobile phone tapping was part of the exercise of bringing this recording to fruition.

I might dedicate a small amount of hard drive space for this when someone copies it, but i hardly think it is worth money.

It's a good thing that BIS - who has spent the money necessary to bring it about - takes the opposite view, then.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

someone should rip and upload it asap

Here we go again. Yawn. Why should they do that? Do you regard BIS as a charity? Is it OK by you for them to spend many tens of thousands of krone to make recordings such as this one, just so that a handful of people can go steal it? Do please let us know.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

While this is a bit off topic, I'd like to tell all who are interested that Fredrik Ullen's CD of Vol 2 of the Sorabji "100 Transcendental Studies" is now being sent to patrons (in the US at least). I just got this note from a friend in Chicago:

Yesterday I received an advance copy of Vol. 2 of the Sorabji Studies. 
Needless to say, the performances are mind-bogglingly magnificent.  (I suppose Records International will be the first outfit to offer it for sale over here, but that might not be for several months.)

So the glacier is finally starting to melt.

My own copy is currently winging its way to me and should arrive tomorrow. I daresay your Chicago correspondent (at whose identity I think I might be able to make a reasonably educated guess!) will be correct about Records International in this context; they're usually pretty good at this kind of thing and, from all reports that I have heard, are also a very reliable supplier; their notes on each recording are equally reliable as a rule. I'm less than surprised at the reaction to Ullén's playing!...

BIS cannot say as yet when vol. 3 will be out, although it was recorded some time ago. Part of vol. 4 has also been recorded. I don't yet know when the remainder of vol. 4 or vols. 5 & 6 will be recorded, let alone released, but I'll post news as and when I get to hear of it for anyone interested.

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

I might dedicate a small amount of hard drive space for this when someone copies it,

I would advise against it, to prevent you accidentally listening to it. Imagine you all of a sudden liking it, you'd have no choice but throw yourself off a cliff dramatically and we'd be bereft of you contributions!

but i hardly think

Pity to read...

it is worth money.

Indeed!

[ahinton]

I would advise against it, to prevent you accidentally listening to it. Imagine you all of a sudden liking it, you'd have no choice but throw yourself off a cliff dramatically and we'd be bereft of you contributions!

Heaven forfend that any such tragedy occur! No - if he did turn out to like it (or at least some of it), would it not be more likely that he'd contribute at least one more post here, admitting to that?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

A correction...

I now understand from BIS's UK distributors that vol. 2 of Fredrik Ullén's recorded survey of Sorabji's 100 Transcendental Studies will be released in September 2009, not later this month as we had previously been advised; I guess that this means that most of us who are looking forward to this release will have to be patient for abit longer!...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I now understand from BIS's UK distributors that vol. 2 of Fredrik Ullén's recorded survey of Sorabji's 100 Transcendental Studies will be released in September 2009, not later this month as we had previously been advised

That is a shame.

I will have to find somethng else to keep the birds of me strawberries.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

That is a shame.

I will have to find somethng else to keep the birds off me strawberries.

Thal

[ahinton]

That is a shame.

It is indeed.

I will have to find somethng else to keep the birds of me strawberries.

By "of" you presumably mean "off" - but that is of less consequence than the fact that, whatever purpose you might have envisaged for this CD, you would have had to buy it first.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Methinks that thou hast not only encapsulated thyself but also repeated thyself (see message #22 and message #23).

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

That is a shame.

I will have to find somethng else to keep the birds of me strawberries.

Thal

I trust going out and showing your beardless face would be quite enough to scare away them burdies, small (or not so small) kiddies, dogs and any forrener happening on your strawberries?

[lontano]

My own copy is currently winging its way to me and should arrive tomorrow. I daresay your Chicago correspondent (at whose identity I think I might be able to make a reasonably educated guess!) will be correct about Records International in this context; they're usually pretty good at this kind of thing and, from all reports that I have heard, are also a very reliable supplier; their notes on each recording are equally reliable as a rule. I'm less than surprised at the reaction to Ullén's playing!...

BIS cannot say as yet when vol. 3 will be out, although it was recorded some time ago. Part of vol. 4 has also been recorded. I don't yet know when the remainder of vol. 4 or vols. 5 & 6 will be recorded, let alone released, but I'll post news as and when I get to hear of it for anyone interested.

My friend in Chicago added this comment, which I'm sure Alistair can relate as well as myself , regarding the glacial pace of distribution:

"The second CD contains nos. 26 - 43, but the remaining 57 studies might take 5 more discs.  (At the rate they're coming out, I'll have to live to be 85.*)

* A copy of Vol. 1 showed up here in January 2005."

Well, one more reason for a depressed man to live another 25 years or so...
The same friend tells me he has a VHS tape of Madge's Chicago performance of the O.C.. Unfortunately he isn't quite ready to loan this treasure out, but I might gently nudge him from time to time. I would love to see it! I might even find a way to transfer the video to DVD. Wouldn't that be loverly?

Lontano

[ahinton]

My friend in Chicago added this comment, which I'm sure Alistair can relate as well as myself , regarding the glacial pace of distribution:

"The second CD contains nos. 26 - 43, but the remaining 57 studies might take 5 more discs.

According to Fredrik Ullén himself, the remainder of the series should occupy no more than 4 CDs and this seems to me to be a reasonable estimate, especially given that the duration of each of the studies (with just a very few exceptions) is relatively short, so there would be no need to put less than the maximum number possible on each CD (and at least 80- minutes can be gotten onto a CD nowadays).

Well, one more reason for a depressed man to live another 25 years or so...
The same friend tells me he has a VHS tape of Madge's Chicago performance of the O.C.. Unfortunately he isn't quite ready to loan this treasure out, but I might gently nudge him from time to time. I would love to see it! I might even find a way to transfer the video to DVD. Wouldn't that be loverly?

Well, OK but, in the meantime, at least we do have the performance itself (as [y]our friend knows well!), because it is that which is on the BIS CDs of the work played by that pianist! I attended three of Madge's six OC performances, but that was not one of them.

The pace of releases in this series is indeed painfully slow, but let's hope...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The same friend tells me he has a VHS tape of Madge's Chicago performance of the O.C..

He would be well advised to offer it to Peter Jackson before releasing it.

Could be a 4 hour classic.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

The pace of releases in this series is indeed painfully slow, but let's hope...

it continues??

[communist]

Does anyone know how hard the nocturne "Djami" is?

[lontano]

Does anyone know how hard the nocturne "Djami" is?

From the looks of it, only a comparison to similar 'nocturnal' works of the composer can easily stand in comparison:

"Le jardin parfume" and "Gulistan". These 2 works are challenging but I'd bet "Gulistan" is the hardest of the 3. I'm just guessing from viewing the scores, that "Le jardin parfume" is the easiest and "Gulistan" the hardest, but reflections from those who have performed all three works would  provide far greater insight.

Is JPowell around to lend a thought?
 

[lontano]

According to Fredrik Ullén himself, the remainder of the series should occupy no more than 4 CDs and this seems to me to be a reasonable estimate, especially given that the duration of each of the studies (with just a very few exceptions) is relatively short, so there would be no need to put less than the maximum number possible on each CD (and at least 80- minutes can be gotten onto a CD nowadays).

It appears to me that you're predicting that all 100 studies will, in the end, fit in a neat sequential order - and I'm sure you've got a good idea of the length not only of the shorter ones, but the longest ones as well.

But let's look at the situation that G. Flynn and F. Ullen (and BIS) went through to get the entire 3, unequally long parts of "Trinity" (3 distinct sections, but each laying awkwardly within the 80 min span of a CD. They didn't want to break any section up part way through, so they finally made the choice to add additional files on the 3rd disc, one with high-quality mp3 files of the works recorded, and PDF files of each of the scores.

So, Alistair, are you sure the Studies will be released sequentially, or do you think at some point they may have to break the canonical order to reduce the number of CDs involved in this project?
[I'm also curious what the stats are on how many people actually bought the first 25 Studies CD; or the Trinity CD. Anyone else curious?]

You also wrote:

Well, OK but, in the meantime, at least we do have the performance itself (as [y]our friend knows well!), because it is that which is on the BIS CDs of the work played by that pianist! I attended three of Madge's six OC performances, but that was not one of them.

Yes, certainly we do. My first introduction to the entire OC involved extended Inter Library Loans of the original score from some far away library, just when I acquired the original multi-LP set Madge recorded. After that less than perfect recording came John Ogdon's studio work. It was only since last year that I bought Madge's 2nd Chicago performance and the original published score from The Sorabji Archive that I finally found what I consider the most exciting recording of this behemoth available today. And I'm guessing that there will be a lot of discussion on whether Ogdon or Powell is "most perfect" (which seems to be the most important aspect of a performance), or "most passionate", which is the basic conflict I deal with in my discussions with others trying to understand this piece. A "note-perfect performance" or an "exciting tour de force" that might take your breath away, even at the loss of a few notes.

Alistair, you've witnessed several performances of the OC. Do you feel up to comparing Madge's 2nd Chicago recording over Ogden's studio work? Did you think Madge played better at some of the performances you attended over the one that was released? This is a tough question to ask and you're certainly not obliged to answer directly. I'm just rambling. 
[/quote]
Take care,

Lontano

[neardn]

Where can I find Sorabji sheet music?

[birba]

I got the Salome transcription from www.sorabji-archive.co.uk

[birba]

But it's NOT EASY!

[ahinton]

Where can I find Sorabji sheet music?

"birba" has answered below where you can get all of it! Actually, it is not possible to buy direct from The Sorabji Archvie website, but that site gives full details of what is on offer, with prices inclusive of shipping within UK; orders may then be placed by email to us at sorabji-archive@lineone.net.

Best,

Alistair

[bmn3]

I was just wondering earlier today as to why we hear so little about any work of Sorabji other than Opus Clavicembalisticum? To be honest, I am sick of hearing about OC!

Does anyone know of any other work of his that is worth playing for more than mere novelty value?

Variazione Maliziosa e Perversa sopra La Morte d'Åse da Grieg and Fantasiettina sul nome illustre dell'egregio poeta Hugh MacDiarmid ossia Christopher Grieve. They are just around 1 to 4 minutes. If you want to learn the Variazione Maliziosa, go here.