Introducing contemporary music

[ahinton]

Well, not only did you live in England at that time, but also wrote that piece there. An English piece by an English composer, QED!
(Very much  !!!)

"QED" here must presumably stand for the kind of "Quirkily Eccentric Definition" assumed by those whom Sorabji once described (in the context of his own racial origins) as believing that a kitten born in a kennel is a puppy...

Best,

Alistair (not a particularly English forename, as you may already know)...

[retrouvailles]

Oh how I would love to raid Thal's house someday...

...Or at least break in with a scanner, scan everything, then make it seem like nothing was touched at all by the time I'm through with it all...

[ahinton]

Oh how I would love to raid Thal's house someday...

...Or at least break in with a scanner, scan everything, then make it seem like nothing was touched at all by the time I'm through with it all...

Were you actually to do that (and I am not of course recommending potential or actual criminal activity), you'd first need to have ensured that Thal is on one of his trips to St. Kilda or some other comparatively remote place at the time, because you'd need to be present in his den of musiquity for a long time in order to achieve what you'd want to achieve...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I start to wonder if you have Sorabji's 8 numbered and two unnumberd piano concerti, and/or his Symphonic Variations and Symphony no. 1 (which apparently contains a massive solo-piano part)?

Nil return i'm afraid.

I posess only one Sorabji Concerto score which is large/heavy and has not seen any daylight in years. If i remember, it was published in the 1920's but i cannot remember by whom.

It resides in my loft and i think my brother has used it to lag the boiler.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Oh how I would love to raid Thal's house someday...

When my house was raided my collection of Electric Blue videos were stolen.

I was devastated as originals are hard to find

Thal

[indutrial]

If I broke into Thal's house, I'd probably get distracted noodling with the banjo collection and forget to steal any of the scores. You do still collect banjos, correct? 

[thalbergmad]

Oh yes, I love my banjos.

An instrument one would have thought would be used more in contemporary music.

Thal

[lontano]

I'm very much behind that, too - having said which, the one positive outcome of people putting fingers in their ears is that at least they cannot play instruments at the same time...

Best,

Alistair

Let's not forget the Kazoo!

[retrouvailles]

Oh yes, I love my banjos.

An instrument one would have thought would be used more in contemporary music.

Thal

George Antheil's A Jazz Symphony has a banjo in it. That is basically the only work I can think of at this moment that was written within the last 100 years with a banjo. One would think it would be used more. Other, crazier, less common instruments have been used in a lot of works.

[thalbergmad]

My quick investigations have indicated Henze Symphony No 6, Ullmann Piano Concerto and the original Rhapsody in Blue.

Perhaps an instrument not considered of great value.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Hmm, those are all works I have heard before. I remember it being in the original Rhapsody in Blue, but not in the Ullmann, a work I have just come to know, which interests me a lot lately (I think you'd like it also, it's a very tonal work). I am not a large fan of Henze's music, but I'll have to look into that symphony.

[weissenberg2]

Very good composers those are, and are well into the 20th century, to boot. See, Thal, you know more than you think you do about 20th century composition, for there's certainly nothing wrong with these guys! Although, I would have thought that Rawsthorne's idiom would be a little too gritty for you.

is R.V. Williams modern? I thought he was a late romantic composer?

[thalbergmad]

Modern for me, I think he meant.

Thal

[ahinton]

Modern for me, I think he meant.

And perhaps also for him, at least momentarily and even if only somewhat frivolously, since he is creadited with having remarked after a rehearsal before the world première of his splendid fourth symphony that "if that's modern music, I'm not sure that I like it"...

Best,

Alistair

[weissenberg2]

Modern for me, I think he meant.

Thal

What are your opinions on him and what effect has his music had on your neighbors cat 

[gep]

My quick investigations have indicated Henze Symphony No 6, Ullmann Piano Concerto and the original Rhapsody in Blue.

Perhaps an instrument not considered of great value.

Thal

I'm a bit (pleasantly) surprised that you have such intimate knowledge about the Henze Symphony, considering the nature of the work! Of course you have his Piano Concerti, but S6 is a pretty "modern" work (what is making those "plop-plop" sounds near the beginning?).
I listened to Schnittke's 3rd Symphony last night, there's a electric bass-guitar in it by the sound of it. Pretty rare in an orchestral work too, I'd guess!

gep

[retrouvailles]

There are an increasing number of pieces with electric bass in them, actually (on the topic of rare instruments in classical music). Schnittke used them in many of his works, notably the 1st and 3rd symphonies, the Gogol Suite, and one of his operas, I believe. Louis Andriessen uses it in a lot of his works or large ensemble. Penderecki also used it in his early days. It's a rather nice instrument in an orchestra, I think. It doesn't always have to be used in the context of jazz or popular music either (Schnittke proved that).

[ahinton]

There are an increasing number of pieces with electric bass in them, actually (on the topic of rare instruments in classical music). Schnittke used them in many of his works, notably the 1st and 3rd symphonies, the Gogol Suite, and one of his operas, I believe. Louis Andriessen uses it in a lot of his works or large ensemble. Penderecki also used it in his early days. It's a rather nice instrument in an orchestra, I think. It doesn't always have to be used in the context of jazz or popular music either (Schnittke proved that).

Indeed it doesn't (and indeed he did); much the same could be said of the saxophone family (with the obvious exception that much of it had already been around for generations before it came to be so strongly identified with jazz). Vaughan Williams used a couple of them in his Sixth Symphony (one of his finest works, I think) and I used four of them (one each of soprano, alto, baritone and contrabass) in my Concerto for 22 Instruments. I have to admit that I've never felt tempted to us electric bass in any piece.

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

One question: why would you write for a contrabass saxophone? Such an instrument is surely not easy to get a hold of!

And just to think... You aren't tempted to write for electric bass, but rather the much rarer contrabass saxophone (I am not suggesting a substitution)...

I will never understand the mind of a composer.

[ahinton]

One question: why would you write for a contrabass saxophone? Such an instrument is surely not easy to get a hold of!

And just to think... You aren't tempted to write for electric bass, but rather the much rarer contrabass saxophone (I am not suggesting a substitution)...

Well, this piece is for a large all-wind group, so an electric bass would arguably be about as necessary in such an ensemble as is the double bass in Mozart's Gran Partita. There are indeed very few contrabass saxophones around and they are somewhat unwieldy to play, but their tone is wonderful; in any case, the part can be substituted by a tubax, a more modern instrument which has the same range as the contrabass saxophone, is somewhat less rare and has the distinct advantages of being rather more compact (its overall design is more practical and I believe that its keys are smaller) and using a standard baritone sax mouthpiece.

I will never understand the mind of a composer.

No; nor will I...

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

My quick investigations have indicated Henze Symphony No 6, Ullmann Piano Concerto and the original Rhapsody in Blue.

Perhaps an instrument not considered of great value.

Thal

There is a rather important part for banjo in P.D.Q. Bach's Cantata "Blaues Grass".....
D'ya know his Concerto for two Pianos and Orchestra?

gep

[ahinton]

There is a rather important part for banjo in P.D.Q. Bach's Cantata "Blaues Grass".....

There goes the president emeritus of the Netherlands Bach society again!...

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

D'ya know his Concerto for two Pianos and Orchestra?

Actually, that title is wrong. The correct title is "Concerto for 2 Pianos vs. Orchestra  (S. 2 are better than one)".

[gep]

Actually, that title is wrong. The correct title is "Concerto for 2 Pianos vs. Orchestra  (S. 2 are better than one)".

I know, but it is a Concerto for two pianos and orchestra!

[lontano]

Oh yes, I love my banjos.

An instrument one would have thought would be used more in contemporary music.

Thal

Are you familiar with this banjoist, Thal?

[thalbergmad]

I guess that must be Bela Fleck.

Chopin does not really transfer over to the banjo i feel.

Thal

[ahinton]

Chopin does not really transfer over to the banjo i feel.

You don't say! I can imagine that American centenarian gentleman whose name you always seem to inveigh against whenever it is mentioned in these annals agreeing that Chopin's Préludes would really not transfer well to the banjo - but then I cannot imagine the works of Thalberg, mad or otherwise, transferring effectively to that instrument either. Perhaps that is all down to my lack of imagination...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

but then I cannot imagine the works of Thalberg, mad or otherwise, transferring effectively to that instrument either. Perhaps that is all down to my lack of imagination...

I cannot imagine you imagining a work of Thalberg.

He was a very good banjo player as well as pianist, but decided not to write for his secondary instrument.

Thal

[lontano]

I cannot imagine you imagining a work of Thalberg.

He was a very good banjo player as well as pianist, but decided not to write for his secondary instrument.

Thal

Fortunately Bela Fleck did write fine music for the banjo, just not anything classical, and as unique as his classical cd is, I agree most of it does not work well on the banjo. However, as limited as my banjo knowledge is, I believe he is the finest performer of that instrument, and he might even know something of Thalberg (not mad). I'll ask him the next time I have a chance. 

[ahinton]

I cannot imagine you imagining a work of Thalberg.

That, as I have had cause to remark on a previous occasion and in a different context, is sadly due to shortcomings in your imagination.

Now go away for abit and imagine a work by Elliott Carter (who played the piano and the oboe but never, as far as I know, the banjo)...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I say, a skip full of tatty old books arrived today, including a rather strange looking piece called Reveil Des Oiseaux by Olivier Messiaen. I think this man is unknown to me, although i do have some vague recollection of an organ piece played at the proms a while back.

Can anyone recommend a recording of this as i wish to expand my listening even further.

Did this composer like birds or something??

Thal

[pies]

a

[ahinton]

I say, a skip full of tatty old books arrived today, including a rather strange looking piece called Reveil Des Oiseaux by Olivier Messiaen. I think this man is unknown to me, although i do have some vague recollection of an organ piece played at the proms a while back.

Can anyone recommend a recording of this as i wish to expand my listening even further.

Did this composer like birds or something??

You're kidding us all, of course! I know that Maître Olivier composed not a note for the banjo (even passing up the possible opportunity of redressing this grave[send?] omission in his late Concert à Quatre), but there's surely no need for you accordingly to appear so abstrusely ignoramus-like, is there?!...

For that matter, can you (or anyone else here) imagine what Messiaen might have been persuaded to contribute to a Twitter page?...

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

I say, a skip full of tatty old books arrived today, including a rather strange looking piece called Reveil Des Oiseaux by Olivier Messiaen. I think this man is unknown to me, although i do have some vague recollection of an organ piece played at the proms a while back.

Can anyone recommend a recording of this as i wish to expand my listening even further.

Did this composer like birds or something??

Thal

Yet again, you picked another aggressively modern work, Thal! Perhaps you have some fetish for torturing your poor, unprepared ears with this sort of thing, although I and a few others happen to love the work. It's Messiaen's first work purely made up of birdsong. There is a wonderful recording with Pierre-Laurent Aimard at the piano.

[thalbergmad]

Splendid, i have heard of the pianist and will try and find the recording. See if i can get it in time for my usual 20th century Saturday morning listening session.

Better wait until mum goes out to the shops. She was not very impressed last week with some Bloch.

"Please switch that racket off, it is giving me a migraine" she said.

Thal

[ahinton]

Yet again, you picked another aggressively modern work

Eh? - Reveil des Oiseaux "aggressive"? - "modernistic"?? - not at all so to my ears and surely not to the ears of quite a few others either...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

It might well be to mine as i am normally tuned into radio romantic.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Eh? - Reveil des Oiseaux "aggressive"? - "modernistic"?? - not at all so to my ears and surely not to the ears of quite a few others either...

Best,

Alistair

It might well be to mine as i am normally tuned into radio romantic.

Thal

That's what I meant, Alistair. Come on, you know what kind of stuff I listen to. This is not agressively modern to me at all!

[gep]

Splendid, i have heard of the pianist and will try and find the recording. See if i can get it in time for my usual 20th century Saturday morning listening session.

Better wait until mum goes out to the shops. She was not very impressed last week with some Bloch.

"Please switch that racket off, it is giving me a migraine" she said.

Thal

You might NOT want to get the Messiaen solo-piano works as re-issued on Arte Nova, you might find pressed for explanations about buying CD's with that kind of cover....

Turangalîlâ has some big piano part too, as has Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur. You might want to wait until your mum goes on a holiday before playing those....

[mikey6]

You might NOT want to get the Messiaen solo-piano works as re-issued on Arte Nova, you might find pressed for explanations about buying CD's with that kind of cover....

What's so bad about it?

[gep]

What's so bad about it?

I did not say they were bad. Here you go for Regards sur l'Enfant du Christ.
https://www.cduniverse.com/images.asp?pid=6935685&style=classical&image=front&title=Messiaen+%2F+Zehn+%2D+Messiaen%3A+Vingt+Regards+Sur+L%27Enfant+J%E9sus+%2F+Zehn+CD

gep