About Producing a Good Tone

[go12_3]

How is a good tone produced?  Is it the piano, the action of the keys and hammers?
Is it from how our fingers touch/strike/press/sinking into the keys down?  I know when a finger strikes a key, it produces a sound, therefore, how would the tone sound to our ears?  Mellow, harsh, too bright or too dull....?   Just having some questions in my mind now....
Tone(in dictionary) is a sound with respect to its pitch, volume and timbre.   

[mike_in_nyc]

The piano has a lot to do with the quality of the tone. Hammers, action etc. are important, but the soundboard is especially important.

Some people believe that the player cannot vary the tone, he/she can only control volume by means of velocity in striking the keys.

I don't believe this, allthough I think a lot of what we might hear as "better" or "worse" tone can be attributed to things like voicing and articulation.
Here is an interesting - if somewhat academic - article on piano tone.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/2742128/Understanding-the-complex-nature-of-piano-tone

Especially interesting is section 5 on "Thump" noise.

[gyzzzmo]

well, you can press the keys with your nose, nipple, axe or carrot, its still the action of the hammer on the strings thats starting the sound, and the soundboard + accoustics gives it 'body'.
Blame the listener for hearing stuff that have other reasons

Gyzzzmo

[fbt]

Some ideas about tone:
     The gualities that you mention(mellow, harsh, too bright or dull) are determined by the type and make of the piano.That is why pianists argue about the tone qualities of a N.Y.Steinway,
Hamburg Steinway,Baldwin,Bosendorfer, etc. As for pitch,volume and timbre,you only have control
of volume. Once you strike a key you can do nothing to change the tone.
      I think what we call tone is the result of independent control of fingers,the ability to surround
the important line of music with the control of all the other voices and/or harmony. This plus good
articulation(legato,staccato etc.),use of pedal,all combine to the feeling that you have control of tone.

[prongated]

...seriously, people who think that the tone of a piano cannot be varied by the pianist have absolutely no idea how the piano actually works. Want proof? Turn up to a masterclass presented by a world-class piano teacher. Unless the student is really good, the difference in sound produced by the teacher and the student is remarkably obvious.

C'mon people who play the piano - piano technicians are constantly laughing their arse off, ridiculing how little most of us actually know about something we work with all the time!

How is a good tone produced?  Is it the piano, the action of the keys and hammers?
Is it from how our fingers touch/strike/press/sinking into the keys down?  I know when a finger strikes a key, it produces a sound, therefore, how would the tone sound to our ears?  Mellow, harsh, too bright or too dull....?   Just having some questions in my mind now....
Tone(in dictionary) is a sound with respect to its pitch, volume and timbre.   

Honestly, having said all of the above, I am embarassed to concede that I do not know as much as I would like to know in terms of good tone production, as well as the mechanism of the piano action. What I can say with confidence is, the quality of the piano certainly plays an important part with respect to tone. Also, the tone is affected not only by speed as many previous posters suggested, but by other factors such as how deeply you depress the key and how much weight you put into it.

[gyzzzmo]

...seriously, people who think that the tone of a piano cannot be varied by the pianist have absolutely no idea how the piano actually works. Want proof? Turn up to a masterclass presented by a world-class piano teacher. Unless the student is really good, the difference in sound produced by the teacher and the student is remarkably obvious.

Ofcourse the sound of somebody who has much better finger control , is different than somebody who's technique is less. Thats no proof though of those 'other factors'.
Putting 'weight' in notes is a trick, just as deeply pressing the keys, to make sure the mechanism gets the hammer on the strings properly. Its still strength/speed (and the type of rebounce) that defines the sound the strings produce.

and for go12_3: What a 'good tone' is, depends on the piece youre playing and how you want to sound it like. So there isnt something like a universal good tone.

[go12_3]

I've been reading the posts here in this thread....good inputs about tone.  I have a Chickering Grand piano and everytime I play it, it sounds wonderful no matter what piece I play or how I strike the keys.  My piano aspires me to play well, which is the true essence in musicality.  There are days I don't feel well and I play a piece and the sound of my piano always delights me.  I don't think it depends upon the piece we play, because that would be through technique and interpretation.

I play violin.  And in order for me to produce a good tone I have to make sure the bow is correctly pressed upon the strings with a relaxed arm and weight so that there would not be any harsh nor squeaky sounds.  It's a more complicated instrument to play than the piano.  We strike the key and there is sound, whether it be loud or soft, depending upon how much we press down the keys, the sound is uniformed, whereas, the violin the sounds can only be produced through the action of the bow going back and forth with enough pressure upon the strings to make a pleasing sound. 

[prongated]

Ofcourse the sound of somebody who has much better finger control , is different than somebody who's technique is less. Thats no proof though of those 'other factors'.
Putting 'weight' in notes is a trick, just as deeply pressing the keys, to make sure the mechanism gets the hammer on the strings properly. Its still strength/speed (and the type of rebounce) that defines the sound the strings produce.

Have you ever attempted to remove weight from your playing? Have you ever attempted depressing the key only as far down to the "bump" with the appropriate velocity? The sound produced by these 2 techniques alone are VERY different. They require not just fine finger control, but also with how you use your arms and, heck, your whole body! In turn, that is a glimpse of virtuosic technique, borne out of a deep understanding of the piano mechanism, as well as plenty of experimentation to realise the piano's full sound potential.

[oxy60]

I have a Chickering Grand piano and everytime I play it, it sounds wonderful no matter what (sic) piece I play or how I strike the keys.  My piano aspires me to play well, which is the true essence in musicality. 

Finally another Chickering owner. I had a Baby and it "almost" played itself. You are right, that piano inspired practice and good playing. Mine held tuning very well and except for some dryness issues  (which were solved easily: 5% RH was too dry) it was problem free. Just like yours the sound was always perfect.

[go12_3]

Finally another Chickering owner. I had a Baby and it "almost" played itself. You are right, that piano inspired practice and good playing. Mine held tuning very well and except for some dryness issues  (which were solved easily: 5% RH was too dry) it was problem free. Just like yours the sound was always perfect.

Mine is a 3/4 grand,  a little larger than a baby, so it takes up a bit of space in the living room.  All my students love playing on it and I do too, of course. 

[richard black]

The intrinsic tone of a piano is produced by all kinds of details in its construction. The 'tone' of a player, however, is determined _almost_ entirely by the relation of notes to each other: notes within a chord or nearby in a phrase. There is very, very little scope for variation in the tone of a single note, and what little there is arises from 'extraneous' factors - the finger hitting the key, the dampers leaving or returning to the strings and so on.

[slow_concert_pianist]

...seriously, people who think that the tone of a piano cannot be varied by the pianist have absolutely no idea how the piano actually works. Want proof? Turn up to a masterclass presented by a world-class piano teacher. Unless the student is really good, the difference in sound produced by the teacher and the student is remarkably obvious.

C'mon people who play the piano - piano technicians are constantly laughing their arse off, ridiculing how little most of us actually know about something we work with all the time!

I heard a tale about a group of students who visited Cortot's home when there was a problem at the conservatorium. Expecting to see an expansive Steinway, the students were horrified to be presented a "ricketty" out-of-tune upright of which "none sould summon a sound". Yet Cortot, could make the instrument sing like a Siren. When asked, he stated, "if I can make this piano sing, I can play anything". I disagree with your symopsis prongated. Anyone with a big enough chequebook can arrange a "masterclass".

[prongated]

I heard a tale about a group of students who visited Cortot's home when there was a problem at the conservatorium. Expecting to see an expansive Steinway, the students were horrified to be presented a "ricketty" out-of-tune upright of which "none sould summon a sound". Yet Cortot, could make the instrument sing like a Siren. When asked, he stated, "if I can make this piano sing, I can play anything". I disagree with your symopsis prongated. Anyone with a big enough chequebook can arrange a "masterclass".

Cortot's tale that you mentioned, if anything, supports my synopsis. And read my post carefully next time; obviously not everyone who has a big enough chequebook in the piano world is a world-class piano teacher!

[fbt]

      " I can play you a beautiful tone with my knuckle. No,really! A beautiful tone! What does it mean? Nothing. Meaning comes from the way one,two,three,four,five tones are connected with one
another. And this is the melodic line,what a pianist must achieve on a percussive instrument.Not easy."   Horowitz

[m19834]

     " I can play you a beautiful tone with my knuckle. No,really! A beautiful tone! What does it mean? Nothing. Meaning comes from the way one,two,three,four,five tones are connected with one
another. And this is the melodic line,what a pianist must achieve on a percussive instrument.Not easy."   Horowitz

hmmm ... go Horowitz !!  

Well, I am thinkin' that actually "beautiful tone" on one single note is a real thing, though I 'get' the idea of it relating to how notes are connected.  My thought is that it has to do with a person's intentions and clarity thereof.  The reason a beautiful tone could be created with a knuckle is because a person is intending to create a beautiful tone, knuckle or not.  A person who 'grasps' the idea that it has to do with how notes are connected is a person who grasps that there "must" be an intention in going from one note to the next, and that together they will form an idea.  

The idea that a beautiful tone cannot stand alone but only occurs when connecting to other notes suggests to me that, in principle, it has more to do with the musical conception and less to do with the instrumentation.  I think that if a single, beautiful tone canNOT be created on the piano, or if that has "no meaning" on its own simply because it's not musically connected to other notes, then by that same principle it would also "have" to be true for any instrument and/or for voice.  And, with other instruments and with voice that is simply more easily understood to not be entirely true.  Vocally and instrumentally speaking, a beautiful tone is produced by using the instrument to its fullest capabilities, using the instrument how it was built to be played, and using your body in such a way that acts in harmony with the instrument.  I think that some people can get more out of a single tone at the piano than some others and I can hear it (actually, some people can even get more out of SILENCE than do others !); some notes have a spinning or shimmering quality to them, some notes don't.  Some people know how to use the piano's specific qualities to its fullest capabilities, even on a single tone, and other people just don't.  If you are listening for it, you can create it whether played with your knuckle or not.

At the very least, if it simply MUST be "connected" to something else in order to be beautiful, I guess I will admit that I feel it's important to remember that silence is *always* there, lurking, and somehow interacting with sound.  If nothing else, a single tone is connected to silence and we can always be listening to how they relate.

[slow_concert_pianist]

Cortot's tale that you mentioned, if anything, supports my synopsis. And read my post carefully next time; obviously not everyone who has a big enough chequebook in the piano world is a world-class piano teacher!

I did not dispute your comment, I added to it. If I did not like what you had said, I would have told you - believe me!

[fastpara]

In my opinion it depends on two things: The type of the piano and the velocity of your fingers. Nothing less and nothing more

[prongated]

I did not dispute your comment, I added to it. If I did not like what you had said, I would have told you - believe me!

Hehehe...ok

In my opinion it depends on two things: The type of the piano and the velocity of your fingers. Nothing less and nothing more

Is that all? You should go and experiment more at the piano - you have much to discover