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Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7 (Read 20070 times)

Offline realpiano

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Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
« on: March 23, 2010, 09:47:48 PM »
Hi everyone
I've managed to setup my mic and pc settings, so I recorded this Chopin Prelude.  Can anyone make comment on the recording please?
Thanks

piano sheet music of Prelude


Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 12:37:15 AM »
Very gently played. Consider how to treat the repeated chords, they tend to want to slightly dissipate energy except the third last one which is the climactic point which should rise in volume and also broaden, you could also pause holding the last repeated chord a little longer before carrying on after this point to make the climax more obvious to the listener. The very last repeated chords should certainly be broadened out and softened. Also ensure when you play the repeated chords that all the notes in BH come together perfectly and act as one body. Careful of how you treat the lower part of the RH it is sometimes very slightly disjoint from the upper melodic part (parts before the repeated chords), try to keep them together (it is good to see you are drawing out the upper melodic part though). Thanks for sharing.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 01:52:22 AM »
To me - the only thing is that it seems just a tad slow... I mean play it just a little faster just to fully hear the 3/4 time signature and give a little more breath between the phrases...

but apart from that - your touch and depth in the piece is impressive.

Offline realpiano

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 09:44:38 PM »
Many thanks for you comments and suggestions, which I've noted and recorded again, several times, and listing the last one to see if you can hear an improvement.  Thanks again your comments.

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 10:29:21 PM »
I wonder why everyone treats this prelude so liberally, while treating the rest so literally?

Don't the rest inspire you to new heights of extreme tempi, lengthy pedalling and flaccid tone?

Walter Ramsey



Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 09:31:20 AM »
Firstly, the tempo should be Andantino, youre playing it Lento now ;) . If youre playing it faster you'll probably also automaticly put more dynamics in it. Things you should also put attention on is making the melody more clearly and better pedalling, because the chords are abit messed up now.

Oh, and at 0.45 youre playing a wrong note: It should be A#C# in the right hand, not AC#.
1+1=11

Offline slow_concert_pianist

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 12:36:41 PM »
Firstly, the tempo should be Andantino, youre playing it Lento now ;) . If youre playing it faster you'll probably also automaticly put more dynamics in it. Things you should also put attention on is making the melody more clearly and better pedalling, because the chords are abit messed up now.

Oh, and at 0.45 youre playing a wrong note: It should be A#C# in the right hand, not AC#.

I disagree "forum expert". You have proudly displayed your UTTER imcompetence.

Thankyou realpiano. That is the finest performance of this prelude I have ever heard. You play it it with absolute sensitivity and understanding. The slow tempo reflects the depth of this work overlooked by the sychophants. Chopin would be proud. Ignore the cretinous hecklers!!!! ;D
Currently rehearsing:

Chopin Ballades (all)
Rachmaninov prelude in Bb Op 23 No 2
Mozart A minor sonata K310
Prokofiev 2nd sonata
Bach WTCII no 6
Busoni tr Bach toccata in D minor

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 01:12:44 PM »
I disagree "forum expert". You have proudly displayed your UTTER imcompetence.

Thankyou realpiano. That is the finest performance of this prelude I have ever heard. You play it it with absolute sensitivity and understanding. The slow tempo reflects the depth of this work overlooked by the sychophants. Chopin would be proud. Ignore the cretinous hecklers!!!! ;D

One of the things I find most irritating about those who choose to play this innocent prelude in such a lewd way, is that they always insist there are unknown depths of profundity and expression that the rest of us are somehow missing.  Apparently, it is just bad to be a simple, charming, beautiful piece - no, that is not enough - you must also be a statement on the human condition.

Imagine demanding of a child, you cannot just be a child, you have to give us the keys to the emotional depths of being.  Let a child be a child, and let a simple beautiful thing be a simple beautiful thing.  At the root of this nonsense is the feeling that simplicity is not enough, and that is a grave fault in a performing artist.

Walter Ramsey



Offline realpiano

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 07:00:32 PM »
Many thanks for all your comments.  I'm studying Chopin's Preludes and Nocturnes at the moment, and was using the opportunity to setup my mic and laptop, and wanted comments about the piece I recorded. Interpretation is always of a personal nature.

btw the Mic I'm using is a Samson CO1U, directly connected to a dell laptop via USB, and recorded using Audacity software.  The Mic is sat on the Piano top, hanging over the back above the soundboard, which seems to give the best effect but others may wish to other suggestions.

Thanks again.

Offline rob47

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 07:20:45 PM »
One of the things I find most irritating about those who choose to play this innocent prelude in such a lewd way, is that they always insist there are unknown depths of profundity and expression that the rest of us are somehow missing.  Apparently, it is just bad to be a simple, charming, beautiful piece - no, that is not enough - you must also be a statement on the human condition.



You should definitely watch the latest episode of south park.  It deeply explores this topic.

http://www.xepisodes.com/southpark/episodes/1402/The-Tale-of-Scrotie-McBoogerballs.html

realpiano: sorry for posting i really have no clue about chopin's preludes :(
"Phenomenon 1 is me"
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 12:31:54 AM »
One of the things I find most irritating about those who choose to play this innocent prelude in such a lewd way, is that they always insist there are unknown depths of profundity and expression that the rest of us are somehow missing.  Apparently, it is just bad to be a simple, charming, beautiful piece - no, that is not enough - you must also be a statement on the human condition.
What do you mean played in a lewd way? Of course this piece is written simple but it has the same form as many of his other preludes and like all other pieces there is a point of climax that we as performers should sense and direct listeners to. There are also a natural expression of Chopin's music which you develop through experience with many of his other pieces, this can also legitimately be applied to this prelude to guide your interpretation.
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Offline stevebob

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 02:08:46 AM »
What do you mean played in a lewd way? Of course this piece is written simple but it has the same form as many of his other preludes and like all other pieces there is a point of climax that we as performers should sense and direct listeners to. There are also a natural expression of Chopin's music which you develop through experience with many of his other pieces, this can also legitimately be applied to this prelude to guide your interpretation.

Sure, but such "natural expression" is generally a matter of individual predilection and is also shaped by the prevailing fashions in performance practice of a given period.

That said, I have no insight into the post by ramseytheii that you quoted.  (In fact, a number of other comments in this thread are baffling to me as well.)
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline vviola

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 02:24:07 AM »
I wonder why everyone treats this prelude so liberally, while treating the rest so literally?

Everyone? I haven't heard such a liberal interpretation of this particular prelude until I found this thread. And I have never heard any one pianist treat these preludes too literally. I've found in almost every recording or performance of any these preludes that the performer always takes some freedom (whether in pedaling, dynamics, avoiding rests, so on and so forth) for the sake of their interpretation.

In my opinion, which of course no one cares about but is still interesting, Chopin ought to be treated more literally by pianists (especially the preludes), in the way that (I anticipate people rolling their eyes already) Gould does for the sonata. Anyway, I suppose it begs the question—which pianists are you listening to? Bad ones?

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 02:43:47 AM »
Everyone? I haven't heard such a liberal interpretation of this particular prelude until I found this thread. And I have never heard any one pianist treat these preludes too literally. I've found in almost every recording or performance of any these preludes that the performer always takes some freedom (whether in pedaling, dynamics, avoiding rests, so on and so forth) for the sake of their interpretation.

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=36234.0
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=30728.0
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=19318.0
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=23246.msg258392#msg258392
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=39817.msg444424#msg444424

Enjoy!

Walter Ramsey



Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 05:05:54 AM »
Waaaah! Slow is NOT equal to deep! (No offence to realpiano) So many musicians seems to think like "omg, If I play it super slow, that means I am deep!" But it's not. It's slow. Nothing else. To play deep, you need do think about more than tempo.

Offline ponken

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 06:15:13 PM »
I think you play it too slowly but otherwise it was great.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #16 on: April 13, 2010, 08:56:23 PM »
Hi realpiano,

This "Prelude No. 7" is one of the most difficult pieces in the entire piano literature. It's difficulty lies in its very simplicity, leaving the pianist no place to hide.  The great Chopin interpreter Moritz Rosenthal once said, quite late in his life, that he had been studying this prelude for decades and was still gaining new insights!

I like the way you achieve the dolce sound.  It's very sweet and gentle indeed.  Here are some suggestions:

At the first note of the piece, the E leads up to C#.  It looks straightforward... but it's not.  We call this a "soprano pause".  You see, the piano's function is to emulate the human voice in song.  In the Romantic repertoire in particular, there is great emphasis on playing cantilena or bel canto melodic lines, as found in this prelude, in a flowing legato way, as if the piece is actually being sung.  If you accompany singers, one of the things you quickly notice is that unlike the pianist who puts a thumb on the E then immediately puts the fourth finger on the C#, a singer is unable to do that with the voice. For any leap like that, the voice has to be prepared. In doing so, there is a very subtle delay, known the soprano's pause.  So you need to incorporate that element into your playing in this spot.  It happens again in measures 8-9 and and requires that same subtle pause between the A and high A in the RH.    

In all of the double notes and chords in the right hand, always remember that the soprano voice is in the top notes forming the melodic line.  So you must always voice those to be predominant over the accompanying notes underlying them, as they are less important.  

In the 8th full measure where the C# octave is in the RH followed by the E, you can put a subtle break in between the the octave and following note.  That's a spot where the singer will regroup, so requires a slight pause for a breath.  You should literally take a breath there too.  

In full measure 12, a couple of things: 1) I'm not hearing the F# harmonic chord in the left hand; and 2) in the double notes following, the lower one is A#, not A.  The wrong note is just a read error, but jarring to the ears.

Measures 13 and 14 are interesting.  In the RH notice that the bottoms of those double notes form a descending scale as accompaniment within the same hand.  Scales in compositions take on significance to the ear.  It's not so important as to drown out the upper notes, but still it needs to be heard harmonically, so feel free to bring it out a little more.

In measure 15 as you approach the 16th double notes in the RH, you can broaden (slow) the tempo just a tad so that the 16ths are blended in and not overly emphasized.  

It's best to take the very last chord in its own pedal.  Use sychonized pedal there--don't play the pedal with the chord, rather play the chord and then catch it in the pedal.

I hope this is helpful to you.   :)
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline realpiano

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #17 on: April 15, 2010, 10:00:01 PM »
Hi rachfan
Many thanks for your comments and suggestions.  I've followed your points, and yes, a real difference can be heard, but consistency is the difficult bit!  I'll just have to keep practicing and also use the basis of your observations when playing/interpreting other pieces of music, especially Chopin which I studying many.
Thanks again.

Offline sashaco

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Re: Chopin Prelude Op 28 No 7
«Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 01:32:31 PM »
I'm with Walter in principle, although I'm perhaps not a sensitive enough listener to describe realpiano's rendition as "lewd."

When thinking of letting children be children,  I always recall Wordworth:

Thou, whose exterior semblance doth belie
Thy soul's immensity
Thou, best philosopher, who alone dost keep
Thine heritage, thou eye amongst the blind,
That, deaf and silent reads the eternal deep
Haunted forever by the eternal mind
Mighty prophet, seer blest
On whom those truths do rest
That we are toiling all our lives to find,
  In darkness lost, the darkness of the grave...  (from Ode on Intimations of Immortality)

It's possible that Wordsworth is longing for the very simplicity of childhood, not trying to inflate it into something it is not.  When he writes about "the splendour in the grass, the glory in the flower"  he's not suggesting that children find greater profundity in these simple things, but rather that they are satisfied with simplicity, and find it glorious.  It's easy, though, to argue against this view; he writes:

In me, the thought of our past years doth breed
Perpetual benediction, not indeed
For that which is most worthy to be blest,
Delight and liberty, the simple creed
of childhood, whether busy or at rest,
But for those obstinate questionings
Of sense, and outward things
Fallings from us, vanishings
Blank misgivings of a creature moving about
In worlds not realized.
High instincts, before which our mortal nature
Did tremble like a guilty thing surprised.

 (These recollections)
... Uphold us cherish, and have power to make
The noisy years seem moments in the being
Of that eternal silence.

I musn't write all of it (and probably can't) but I think when composers strive for the simple and the beautiful, they are catching glimpses of "those first affections.. that are yet the master light of all our day."   

Have I driven you all nuts with this irrelevant stuff?  I think it's instructive to read the Romantic poets in conjunction with thinking about romantic composers, but the rest of you may find it a bore.  Sorry.

Cheers, Sasha