Liszt's Wild Jagd (etude 8)

[thierry13]

How hard is this piece? I listened to a recording while looking at the score, and i find this is one of the easiest etudes by him...but there i could be wrong. I would want to add it to my repertory the coming year or the year after this one. Would this piece kick my butt or would it be manageable ?

[DarkWind]

I think its one of the most difficult etudes. I can't play it at all. Look to the etude before it. Eroica is pretty doable.

[donjuan]

How hard is this piece? I listened to a recording while looking at the score, and i find this is one of the easiest etudes by him...but there i could be wrong. I would want to add it to my repertory the coming year or the year after this one. Would this piece kick my butt or would it be manageable ?

If you start to work at it, you will find it exhausting to keep up.  But I dont know, you are the one who has learned Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto after a year of lessons...

I would try easier ones, like Nos. 3,7,9,11 first.  No. 8 is one of the harder ones--> not as hard as No.12(Chasse Niege) or 4(Mazeppa).

Oh, you should try the Grande Etudes...They are so much more difficult than the Transcendental etudes. Have a look at Grande Etude No.8 and compare it to the Transcendental Etude No.8--> Then you will see a piece that can kick your butt...
donjuan

[thierry13]

I don't know the grandes etudes. Are they by liszt? And know i did'nt made rach 2. Do you know where i could find the scores for them? And for etudes i think two hard there are Feux follets and Prelude. Sure the others are not easy but those two could be the 2 hardest for me.

[donjuan]

I don't know the grandes etudes. Are they by liszt? And know i did'nt made rach 2. Do you know where i could find the scores for them? And for etudes i think two hard there are Feux follets and Prelude. Sure the others are not easy but those two could be the 2 hardest for me.

Liszt's Etudes started when he was just 15 years old.  in 1826, he published the "Etude in 12 Exercises"  As his expertise and genius surfaced in the next years, he revised the etude into the Grande Etudes.  They were published in 1838, Liszt revised them (really, he just deleted some stuff and made them easier) again and published the Transcendental Etudes in 1851.

I bought this book:

https://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486258157/qid=1089519380/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/701-7942745-2616354

(I know you are canadian, so I used Amazon.ca)

it is a great book, including the etudes in all three sets- the etude in 12 exercises, the 12 Grande etudes, and the 12 Transcendental etudes.  It also includes the 1840 version of "mazeppa - A capriccio", significantly different from Grande etude 4 and Transcendental etude 4.

Go ahead, buy it!  It's cheap and high quality- two things that are rarely seen together!

donjuan

p.s.  The prelude is so EASY compared to Wilde Jagd!!!

[thierry13]

Well, i would really like to buy this book but i'm still 14, have no credit card ( can't before 18 years old) and my parents don't want to buy over the internet. Believe me i would have hundreds book like this one if i could just buy over the internet... And talking about prelude, i think we have both different technique cause i really find it harder. With the technique i have presently, i'm almost sure Wild jagd should be a piece of cake, this is why i asked how hard it was, because i don't want to make big work and that it gives nothing. I will give it a try when i will be able to print the score and will give you news. And talking about my technique... do you think i have a good octave technique if i find VERY easy chopin's octave etude. This one i've tried it, and really found this was nothing( at real speed, i listened to several recordings). Why i ask it is to be sure that people REALLY found it hard, i dedicated no practice in octaves, this is the first "exerciss" i do for octaves. Am i really good at octaves or is this that easy for everyone?



P.S. In the next year, i may be able to get recording. If i can, i will put it on a topic to proof you guys i'm not only a big head who just talks, since i sence that many are septics

[donjuan]

It really sucks you cant buy over the internet.  You live in Canada, like me- and I understand great sheetmusic is limited here...

I convinced my parents to let me order stuff from the net because they understand as well that the sheetmusic stores rarely have any decent Liszt.  It is completely safe- I also dont have a credit card, so I use my dads, and then pay him back in cash.

You need to reason with your parents!! I have about 20 music books from Amazon and sheet music plus.net- and I use them everyday!

As for prelude, the reason why I find it easy is because I used that book I suggested you get.  It is edited by Feruccio Busoni, andhas his fingering which I find logical and very comfortable, once you get used to it.  It involves the arpeggios- shifting from 5th finger to 1st finger on an ascending arpeggio- Very iffy at first, but superior in the end.  

I havent heard you play the Octave etude of Chopin, so I cant really say much...If you can do it at speed and not get tired or injured, good for you- I tried to do Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No.6 and was having some wrist pain when I got to the octave section.  I need to learn how to relax and use the weight of my hand to create power, and not run on pure adrenaline all the time.


Do you have the sheet music for the Liszt Transcendental Etudes?  You sound like you havent seen the score of Wild Jagd or Prelude.  I know you learn by listening, so Im not sure.....
donjuan

[thierry13]

I have the score on my computer, as many others. I will print it soon. But the problem of scores on the internet that you find on site, is that the editions are rarely good... And i have tried to convince my parents but they really don't want... i know it's safe, but my parents think it's REALLY dangerous and they want to hear nothing. For the octave, i don't get any tension or nothing at speed, and it does not hurt. And i'm able to do only 1-5 everytime, as i can play switching 1-4,1-5. But for the scores, i think i could use some of my cousin(not sure if that's how we say it in english) to buy it for me and then give them the cash back. The problem is that i see them 1-2 times by year... But next time i'll really try.  And from where are you in canada?

[donjuan]

I am from Alberta.  Best of luck with the sheetmusic!

donjuan

[DarkWind]

I have that edition. It's great except it has a few errors here and there. I forgot where exactly, but I'm pretty sure they are there.

[thierry13]

I've finally tried it. Harder than i tought, but still very manageable for me. THe only "difficulty" i'll have is to get the chromatic runs up to THAT speed. I admit it's very hard. But the rest of the piece is very manageable. Maybe i have get past the other difficulties, so do you see any others than the chromatic run?

[donjuan]

Sounds like you are on your way!  You will manage just fine..

[maxy]

ah étude #8!
very fun!
tip for the chromatic scales: try 1-2-3-4-5-1-2-3-4-5 right hand.  5-4-3-2-1-5-4-3-2-1 left hand.  I find it easier than a clean chromatic scale "good school" fingering. The gesture is more important than actually playing all the notes well "controlled".

The hardest part IMO: octave jumps R.H. towards the end, right before the final statement of the lyrical theme.

[IgnazPaderewski]

that is ridiculous...

how can you find a chromatic scale difficult, yet find the awkward jumps and stamina issues "very manageable"?

[Terry-Piano]

Hey , haha Donjuan I got exactly the same book...
Very good book indeed... all three versions of his transcendental studies.. and he was 14 when he composed the first version, very much in the style of his teacher Carl Czerny...the 2nd version is definitly harder
and the third is made easier (and that is actually the version everyone knows)

Its puzzling that he lingered on these pieces his whole life... it gives a great idea of Liszt Metamorphosis over the years .. amazing book.. edited by busoni.. cheap
Gogogo Thierry .. prelude isnt that hard compared to others ... like feuxfollets , mazeppa , chasse-neige

[donjuan]

Yeah, it is an amazing book indeed!  I especially love how it includes the 1840 Version of mazeppa, which just so happens to be my favorite.
donjuan

[ericlc]

I've played a fair amount of Liszt before, and started learning this recently. I think it sounds much more challenging than it actually is, but it still is quite difficult. I find that the most challenging part of the piece is the hemiolas in the middle section -- it takes an awful lot of control and expression to get the left hand and right hand to sound natural simultaneously.

#8 is fairly tough, but I think #4 (Mazeppa), #5 (Feux follets), and #12 (Chasse-neige) are considerably more difficult. #10 ("Appassionata") is also quite tricky, and if you're ever anxious to improve the strength of your fourth and fifth fingers...this is a good one to learn. Well, not to mention that I think it's the most beautiful etude within the set.

And BTW, donjuan was being sarcastic and all, but in case you didn't pick it up....don't try the Douze Grandes Etudes unless you have a lot of time on your hands and an intense willingness to try things that may not have
been designed for the ordinary human anatomy.

Re: octaves being easier than the chromatic runs -- I feel the same way. They are easier for me because I think my arm and wrist action is much better than my fingerwork. I don't find the octave jumps particularly difficult but have had quite a bit of trouble with chromatics and arpeggios since I got tendinitis in my right hand a couple years ago. My fingerwork hasn't been the same since and it is coming back really slowly....(interestingly enough, I was working on the Sonata in b minor at this time -- maybe this had something to do with it.)

[donjuan]

I wasnt being sarcastic... :-/

[jon]

I think this is definitely one of the harder etudes by Liszt. I started this piece about three months ago and found several techincal problems.The first few pages are ok but the middle section is  tough with the left hand jumps and then the rhythm gets tricky in the molto appassionata part.I am finding it very difficult on the last page with the right hand arpeggios because i can't strike the double notes exactly on time at high speed.Does anyone know any practice methods other than slow, repetitive playing for this section?

[ericlc]

Ahh...this is definitely one passage where you're at an advantage if you were trained with wrist rotation technique. Basically, you want rotate your wrist to the right in order to assist with "throwing" weight of the 3 and 5 fingers simultaneously, or the 4 and 5, dependingon wihch fingers you use. You can also rotate your wrist to the left to help you strike the thumb afterwards.

You need to use wrist rotations actively in this section, but don't forget that the underlying fingerwork is really important too. In the end, this section should be extremely quick, but clarity is essential too, so make sure you use all the help from your wrist and arm that you can get.

(1) Practice the rotations slowly and throwing the weight on the 3-5, and also (2) practice releasing the 3-5 really quickly and getting your thumb in place well before it actually has to play. Once you've practiced the rotations and the releases, you can do the entire phrase at a time, beginning by dropping your hand on the octave chord and using that as somewhat of a "springboard" to give you momentum to go forward.

Personally I don't find that this is the most difficult passage in the piece -- the middle section hemiolas are definitely the trickiest -- but I can certainly see how this technique is challenging. It may seem a bit more routine to me since I've already been exposed to this technical pattern in Mephisto Waltz, Transcendental Etude #6 (Vision), and Transcendental Etude #10. Nevertheless it is a very useful technique and it can be found in so many of Liszt's works, so definitely take your time to learn the technique properly because it will come in very handy if you continue to play Liszt.

I hope this helps. Also please check out my posting on thumb passing/arpeggios and let me know if you have any advice. Thank you! -> https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1094423601