Professional approach

[pianisten1989]

Hellu

I'll have a new teacher this autumn, and I had a lesson with her some weeks ago. Recently I asked her if I should apply for a competition in Sweden, then she said "I think it's a better idea to wait until you're playing sounds more professional" (vague translation).

I know what she means, cause my playing sounds good - but not professional.

To the few professionals left: How did you practise to get a better sound, and fewer mistakes, etc.?

[thalbergmad]

It's a shame "slow concert pianist" appears to have jumped ship as he might have offered some insight.

Listening to your Mozart that i downloaded in the audition room, if you ain't professional you are bloody close. This is very fine playing IMO and I feel the gap between advanced amateur and professional can be very narrow. Looking at some you tube comments about me old mate "ronde", several people refuse to believe he is not professional.

How you do it, I have little idea. My own piano teacher always made me aim for absolute mechanical mastery, so all of my senses could strive towards the presentation of the music.

Good luck.

Thal

[mistermoe]

About mistakes and getting rid of them:

First of all, don't do a mistake twice. Don't let your head and body learn a mistake, cause it's hell of a work to get it right if once you learned it the wrong way.

Something else i realised not too long ago is, i actually never tried to play anything without making mistakes. If you do lots of solo works/concerts you worry less about this stuff. But when i started playing more chamber music and accompanying singers you suddenly try to do as little mistakes as possible. The advantage is, that songs are normally a lot easier than your schumann and chopin etudes^^ so it's possible to play them without (or with little) mistakes. You start approching pieces in a completely new way with different objectives. But it takes time of course. It's something we have to work on a lot.
I would suggest buying some Schubert/Schumann song cycles and working on them with this in mind. Or look for a singer. Would be even better. It's an incredible world to discover!

I don't want to tell you to sacrifice musicality for a performance without mistakes, of course. But if you really love and live the music you play (and i'm sure you do), i don't think that should be a big problem.
And on stage, everything is different anyway.


And to work on a better sound i can give you one little advice:
Work on songs! Less technical difficulties, more possibilities (and needs) to work on sound-production.

Anyway, i don't worry about your progresses from what i've heard in your recordings 

[tds]

strive for perfection when you practice, enjoyment/involvement when you perform

[mistermoe]

strive for perfection when you practice, enjoyment/involvement when you perform

Can't agree more with you!

But it's so terribly difficult not to play the pieces you love so much for your enjoyment (or sometimes as a therapy) at home, but only practice them.

[tds]

About mistakes and getting rid of them:

i often bring with me a full suitcase of wrong notes after concerts

But it's so terribly difficult not to play the pieces you love so much for your enjoyment (or sometimes as a therapy) at home, but only practice them.

too much enjoyment/excitement when you practice will bite your back during performance. be level headed when u practice. i learnt it the hard way 

[pianisten1989]

Woow, so many replies! Thanks everyone
I'm trying to practise to perfection, but when you've solved one problem, there's always new ones coming.. But I guess that's life.

And about the singers: I'm actually about to participate in a course, where I have to play with a singer. And she's way older, and more experienced than me, so I hope I'll learn a lot when I play with her. And it's not very difficult pieces, so I think it'll be great

[mistermoe]

I'm trying to practise to perfection, but when you've solved one problem, there's always new ones coming.. But I guess that's life.

Yep, you got it! 

That's great if you can work with experienced singers! What are you working on with her?
While practicing those songs, sing and speak them (with the right rhythm) find the places where you can/have to breathe. Then when you are accompaning, try to breathe with the singer (remember when she does, put little marks in your sheet). They need time for breathing, so if you do it with them, you wont have to "wait". It becomes natural.
Try to understand where they go in each phrase (especially with good singer who exactly know what they want to do) and go there with them. That's as important. And then have fun! You can learn so much from singers.

[pianisten1989]

We're going to work with
Mozart - "Come scoglio" from Cosi fan tutte, Bizet - "Je dis que rien ne m'épouvante" from Carmen, "Was Du mir bist..." - E. W. Korngold, "Extase" - Henri Duparc and "Flickan kom ifrån sin älsklings möte" - Sibelius.
So it's pretty much, and I only have 9 days until the course starts. But I hope I'll make it. If I don't, I can always learn the rest during the course.

I hope she's good, and that I'll learn a lot

[mistermoe]

To be honest, i don't really know those pieces (i think i've heard the mozart and bizet once) but i just listened to that sibelius. Great piece.

And what a singer!

[gyzzzmo]

Loads of etudes every day, other harder pieces and that 'strive of perfection' that tds mentioned. Playing something professionally only means that you fully master a piece and can make it sound exactly as you like, wich requires better technique than the piece itself requires.

[pianist1976]

I'm still learning (who isn't?  ) but I think that some paths to get close to "perfection" are written in Leimer-Gieseking little books (which I recommend to every pianist) and a few disordered but very good ideas can also be found in Neuhaus book. Some random ideas picked from both:

- Learn to listen to yourself (difficult and VERY important, maybe one of the most ones)
- Perfect rhythm (it is, non metromomical but also not random, not capricious and not uneven)
- Good legato
- Dynamic range
- Respect for every indication at the score
- Aesthetic image of the music work
- Mechanical perfection (can be reached by the study of scales, arpeggios and technical exercises, specially those that aims to finger independence)

[thalbergmad]

Respect for every indication at the score

Respect it, but don't always follow it.

Thal

[cherub_rocker1979]

I don't have anything to say, other that these replies are all excellent.  It's so wonderfully reassuring when others so generously offer honest advice.

It's good to see that you're back, tds.  We've missed you!

[cherub_rocker1979]

Valentina Lisitsa is live streaming her practice until the end of this week.  Just thought some might find it interesting...

https://www.ustream.tv/channel/val-s-daily-practice-webcam#more

[slow_concert_pianist]

Listening to your Mozart, you have promise as a performer. However you would need to build an extensive repertoire and there is a lack of dynamism in your playing. Performance is as much a part of you as your duty to observing a composer's wishes as expressed in the written score.

Currently there is a fashion to play anything fast as fast as possible and anything slow - grave. Right notes are perceived far more important than nice notes. Teaching methods are built around fix up technique, now interpret and a distant...finally let's consider the music. I prefer to approach things from a holistic position. First understand the music and highlight technical deficiencies. At each technial remedy, consider the affect to the overall musical context and interpret thus.

The corporate music world is almost a conspiracy built around an "establishment" old boy network. While sensitivity has no real place in performance output, speed and "brilliance" (sic) invariably prevail. "Churn and burn" seems to be encouraged. Personally, if I were to drive a professional career I would champion a lesser known composer or composers and prepare a "complete works" cycle.

One final point. Most here don't understand why I use inferior recording gear to present performances. The reason I present for me as my discipline in training. The forum becomes a personal goal for personal benchmarked standards. It is like preparing for an exam without an examiner and marking myself. The reason for the low grade is not to disguise errors. In fact the reverse happens. Pauses and lapses are exaggerated, if tone is not precise it sounds awful, over pedalling drowns all detail (far worse than a fine recording). I recommend you try it if you are committed and you will be amazed first, how bad you sound, and second, how much absolute discipline will assist your quest to improve.