Anyone knows what these numbers are?

[littletune]

Well I was just wondering It's nothing really important or anything of course !   But for some time I have been thinking about something and trying to imagine something... and well... I got these numbers  And it seems kinda cool  And I would just like to know if someone maybe knows how I got these numbers and what they are supposed to mean and how they would go on (cause it could go on but then the numbers just get so large that it's not that much fun anymore  ) Oh and all the numbers are kinda connected to each other, that's why I think it's kinda cool   
So well just that..... 

[_nisa_]

Referring to h(x,y) as the number in the (x,y) case (x-line, y-column):

h(m,n) = 2*h(m-1,n) + h(m-1,n-1)


However, i don't know how we can use them... it's gonna haunt my evening!
It reminds me Pascal triangle but i don't see any connection to anything at the moment!

[go12_3]

Could a computer program glitch....

[thalbergmad]

The first 6 columns look like my credit card bill.

Thal

[littletune]

Well I hope I didn't ruin anyones evening with this!!  Don't worry too much about it! it was just something I imagined in my head... I guess it's kinda hard for someone else to figure it out if they have no idea what's it about... And I don't really know very much about math  I didn't use any complicated math formulas to get this numbers really, cause I don't even know them 

[pianowolfi]

I have no clue, I'm terrible at stuff like this   The only row I recognize is the first one in the A column...

[littletune]

How are you all looking at the numbers? From up to down or from left to right? I think it's a lot easier if you look at the numbers from left to right maybe it could remind you of something at least the first ones but it's really nothing so serious so don't worry about it

[_nisa_]

Wasn't that:

Referring to h(x,y) as the number in the (x,y) case (x-line, y-column):

h(m,n) = 2*h(m-1,n) + h(m-1,n-1)

??

No need to use complicated formulae to get complicated resuls 

[pianowolfi]

Wasn't that:??

No need to use complicated formulae to get complicated resuls 

LOL 

[Bob]

What's the solution?  I've got parts figured out.  I can't make that forumula work for it though.

[_nisa_]

Is next line:
512 2304 4608 5376 4032 2016 672 144 18 1
?

[lostinidlewonder]

- numbers in the far left colum are doubling every time
- top diagonal \   are all ones
- 2nd diagonal \ are all even numbers
- 2nd furthest left column... it's like 8x1.5,  16x2,  32x2.5,  64x3  just go up by halfs in the multiplication

thats all i have time for now!

[Bob]

I don't quite follow nissa's formula, but I see it's something with going to the left one column and up one line.


B column =  is one left, one up times whatever lines it's on.  (divided by one)

The C column is one left, one up times the line it's on divided in half.

D column = -1,-1 * line number / 3.

E column = ....                      / 4.

 F...                    / 5.

G ...               /6.

H...          /7.



This is what I got for the next line too.  I don't know how to write it out more simply but it must be what nissa meant.
512 2304 4608 5376 4032 2016 672 144 18 1




I guess if columns are numbers -- B=1, C=2, D=3, etc.

Then it's...

0 column is going down multipled by two.

space = one column left and one column up * its line number / its column number.

[Bob]

What's the point of that though?  Just for the pattern?

[_nisa_]

I don't quite follow nissa's formula, but ...

You should, definitely easier 

[birba]

Littletune, you have started something here! 

[birba]

for some reason I look at the lines diagonally. the first one is all ones.  the second one proceeds by 2, the thirs\\

[littletune]

Wow you guys are all really smart!!!  
Well Nisa and Bob are exactly right!   the next line is:

512 2304 4608 5376 4032 2016 672 144 18 1
?

exactly like that!!   How did you figured that out? With that scary math formula??  

Referring to h(x,y) as the number in the (x,y) case (x-line, y-column):

h(m,n) = 2*h(m-1,n) + h(m-1,n-1)

this really scares me!   specially if i think that I'll have to learn that some day!   I don't understand anything about it  

What's the point of that though?  Just for the pattern?

You mean what's the point of the numbers? There is a point   I could never figure this numbers if I hadn't imagined something... So it's not at all just for the pattern! It's something about.... hmmm the universe I guess      

for some reason I look at the lines diagonally. the first one is all ones.  the second one proceeds by 2, the thirs\\

well you can look at the numbers whaterver way you want that's why i think it's so cool   cause it's like it's all conected somehow   and there's so many ways you can look at this

oh and yes like this too I guess 

- numbers in the far left colum are doubling every time
- top diagonal \   are all ones
- 2nd diagonal \ are all even numbers
- 2nd furthest left column... it's like 8x1.5,  16x2,  32x2.5,  64x3  just go up by halfs in the multiplication

[_nisa_]

exactly like that!!  How did you figured that out? With that scary math formula?? 

Yeah but there is nothing complicated in this formula. It says that the considered number is equal to twice the one above it plus the one above it on the left.
Math are just used to condensate the thoughts in a formula as short as possible.

this really scares me!  specially if i think that I'll have to learn that some day!

Are you student?

So it's not at all just for the pattern! It's something about.... hmmm the universe I guess     

You're ruining my evening 

[littletune]

Yeah but there is nothing complicated in this formula. It says that the considered number is equal to twice the one above it plus the one above it on the left.
Math are just used to condensate the thoughts in a formula as short as possible.
Are you student?
You're ruining my evening 

Well it seems VERY complicated to me! Who thought of that formula then? And why?  I didn't think that these numbers and all that I was thinking about would go into a real math formula!    That's kinda cool I guess 
Um well... I guess I'm a student (but not like a student at university or something ..... ) I'm just a kid you know    That's why I have NO idea about math formulas at all!! These numbers are just something I have been thinking about since like preschool  well I wasn't thinking about the numbers then but I was just trying to imagine some things and from imagining those things I now got these numbers 
Sorry, I really don't want to ruin your evening!!!  But I mean you figured it out! Just not what I was thinking about  But I have NO idea how you (and Bob) ever figured out the numbers at all!!!  Do you study math?? I will explain how I got these numbers if noone will think of it 

[_nisa_]

Well it seems VERY complicated to me! Who thought of that formula then? And why? 

I thought at it because i don't look at the number column by column or line by line but as a serie (you told that there was a logical link, so i considered it as a serie).
Serie is an evil mathematical word to say a set with a logical link like 1-2-3-4-5-...
Here this is a 2 dimension serie (horizontal + vertical).
Then it's just analysis (you just pick a number in the middle and try to look at its neighbours doing some basic operations and this one was quite trivial but very nice and well thought).

I didn't think that these numbers and all that I was thinking about would go into a real math formula!    That's kinda cool I guess 

It is

Sorry, I really don't want to ruin your evening!!! 

I was kidding, don't worry!

Do you study math??

Caught!
Yes i am a Ph.D student whose life is currently balanced between studying math/physics (mathematical theories applied to the understanding of physics phenomena to be accurate) and learning the piano (on my own since i've had 9 years of private lessons when i was younger).
But i'm really into enigma and numbers so that's why i answered your post

I will explain how I got these numbers if noone will think of it 

Hehe, it's kinda hard anyway...
Appart from a growth of something... in the universe that could be the formation of planets, distances between solar systems, galaxies...
Hints?

[Bob]

How did you come up with that littletune?  On your own?... Because then I'm thinking you must have been aware of some kind of pattern.  I was wondering if a teacher put it out as an extra credit thing.  I don't remember doing anything like that when I was 12 though.

I looked for patterns in the afternoon and found the 2 4 6 8 thing on the side.  Then I found the lines and column numbers later yesterday evening.  Nissa had already posted the formula that showed the left one, up one cell. 

I was still looking at it different than nisa.  Her (his?) way is a lot simpler.



Is that a matrix?  What do you do with them?   I see it as multiplying by two on the left column and adding two on the right diagonal.  The rest is just a pattern that relates everything inside. 

[littletune]

Nisa thanks for explaining that and answering everything Well I like physics but I don't like math  Physics is cool cause you can imagine things and you know why you're doing something, but math is just...  and the teacher that we have now is like just writing something all the time and talking really fast and she just thinks we'll understand everything  and she wants us to do billions of exercises  so that's why I don't really like math now... But that sounds cool what you're studying anyway   

Bob, yes I came up with that on my own  And it wasn't something that a teacher told us to do... it's just that I have been thinking about this for really long time... I was just thinking about something about the universe  so I guess the universe helped me get these numbers   

Are you asking me about the matrix? Or Nisa? Cause I don't know exactly what a matrix is 

Well... I'm not sure what hints would be  Cause I'm not sure how to give a hint without telling everything hmmmm this was really really fun when you guys were trying to solve this and figured it out!!!!!!    Now when I tell how I got the numbers I think it will just become boring  look this is a hint: .   and __      and so on... you know? just the easiest thing!

[littletune]

            .              _____                         _____   
                                                           |____|          ......... 

[_nisa_]

Nisa thanks for explaining that and answering everything

You're welcome

Well I like physics but I don't like math  Physics is cool cause you can imagine things and you know why you're doing something, but math is just...  and the teacher that we have now is like just writing something all the time and talking really fast and she just thinks we'll understand everything  and she wants us to do billions of exercises  so that's why I don't really like math now... But that sounds cool what you're studying anyway   

I understand you. Physics is quite always attracting, but math is one particular thing. First, without math, you can't have physics (as math is a tool that can serve to calculate and predict things) and sometimes math can be an end by itself (geometry is the basis of GPS, we can also find understanding of natural behaviours in math, but that's another story...). Second, i think whether someone likes or not math is based on the way it is presented. I always took math as a challenge instead of an i-had-to-learn topic. That's maybe why i like it. Don't fool you: math is a set of techniques and thinking, so exercices are necessary. Just take them as a challenge and you will like it

Are you asking me about the matrix? Or Nisa? Cause I don't know exactly what a matrix is 

Another word from hell that scientists like.
In fact, a matrix is just a set of numerical or analytical expression ordered in a table. If this table has one "entry", this is a line:
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
and it's called a vector or a 1-D matrix. If it has 2 "entries" like your excel table, it represents a square or a rectangle (assuming your blancks are 0) and is commonly called a matrix (a 2-D matrix would be redondant). 3 entries is called a 3-D matrix, etc...
You can really write many things into matrices (physics, computer science, biology, statistics, etc...).
That's why the matrix is everywhere

[Bob]

            .              _____                         _____   
                                                           |____|          ......... 

Time?  The 4th dimension? 

I see a point, a line,  ... maybe a 3D box, then dots to represent time?

[_nisa_]

I guess :
-point (0-D form)
-line (1-D form)
-rectangle/square (2-D form)
-dots because 3-D is not drawable here

So there is a gain of 1 dimension at each pattern.
Each line of Littletune has one more number that the previous one... that's my current lead. Any followers?

[littletune]

Yes you're  right!  it's about dimensions !  

And thanks again for your answers Nisa Well I try to take exercises as a challenge it's just that if I need a lot of time to figure out some exercises I always start feeling really stupid!  so that's why I'm always afraid to do exercises cause I'm always afraid that I won't get them and that I'll just start feeling so stupid agan!    oh well I'll try not to be afraid of exercises anymore 

[pianowolfi]

Haha I'm still lost   

[littletune]

Haha I'm still lost   

You want me to explain it? 

[pianowolfi]

You want me to explain it? 

No. I'll just keep thinking. 

[_nisa_]

Ok, I think i've got it.

The numbers must be considered by lines.
Each line correspond to a mathematical figure: the first line is a point (0-D form), the second line a line (1-D form), the third line a square (2-D form), ..., the n-th line a (n-1)-D form, ...
The number are determined by counting the appearance of mathematical figure: the first number correspond to the number of edge points in the current figure, the second number to the number of lines, etc...

First line:
One point is used to make a point and nothing else.
--> 1

Second line:
It is a line. This line has two edge points so the first number is 2. It is constituted by one line, so the second number is 1.
--> 2 1

Third line:
It is a square and there is 4 edge points constituting it, so the first number is 4. The second number is the number of lines: 4. The last number is the number of square in a square: 1.
--> 4 4 1

Fourth line:
A cube. To describe a cube you need 8 points (4 for a square, and 4 other for an other parallel square). There is 12 lines: 4 on each parallel square and 4 other to link them. There is also 6 square (imagine a dice), and 1 cube.
--> 8 12 6 1

Etc... I hope what i mean is understood. In other word, m/n representing the line/column of your matrix (table), the (m,n) number is the occurrence of the elemental (n-1)-D form in the (m-1)-D elemental form.

Am i right?

_Nisa_

[pianowolfi]

Amazing. Littletune I wonder if your math teacher could figure it out 

[littletune]

Yes you are right Nisa!!    cool  And you explained it really well! I could never explain it like that I was thinking that I don't really know how I would explain it if I had to  So thanks for explaining it! 

And Wolfi I wonder if my math teacher could figure it out too  But I would be afraid to ask her, I'm even afraid to ask her if I don't know how to do some exercises cause she always looks nervous and in a hurry 

[pianowolfi]

And Wolfi I wonder if my math teacher could figure it out too   But I would be afraid to ask her, I'm even afraid to ask her if I don't know how to do some exercises cause she always looks nervous and in a hurry  

Hmm. I think it might be because not every teacher can handle highly gifted students.

[_nisa_]

Well I try to take exercises as a challenge it's just that if I need a lot of time to figure out some exercises I always start feeling really stupid!  so that's why I'm always afraid to do exercises cause I'm always afraid that I won't get them and that I'll just start feeling so stupid agan!    oh well I'll try not to be afraid of exercises anymore 

It's definitely difficult in the beginning. But you will see that with the practice comes the ease and the speed. It is like piano: when you don't know solfeggio it's really long and discouraging to read and learn a piece as easy it can be. But you never gave it out and continued to practice and now you don't find it difficult anymore and it takes way less time to read and maybe learn a harder piece.
Keep believing you can do it all the time (I myself was motivated by the fact that i knew there was a solution... therefore it was up to me to find it)

Yes you are right Nisa!!    cool  And you explained it really well! I could never explain it like that I was thinking that I don't really know how I would explain it if I had to  So thanks for explaining it! 

Thank you. It was really smart from you to think at things like that. It proves you have well structured thinking and good abilities in math. It is a real proof of ease in abstraction. That's impressive from a "kid" and i'm very sure you can cope with all kind of math problem with some work!

And Wolfi I wonder if my math teacher could figure it out too  But I would be afraid to ask her, I'm even afraid to ask her if I don't know how to do some exercises cause she always looks nervous and in a hurry 

You can always try to ask her by just giving her the table you gave us and telling her it's about dimensions. Maybe she will be glad to think at it and to interact with an interesting student (i would if only i had such imaginative students).
Maybe you and pianowolfi are right and she's only the kind of teacher that do lessons (i don't say teach) to earn money and have hollydays. But maybe she's somebody stressful and anxious to talk ahead of 30 students and that's why she looks nervous and in a hurry.

And don't hesitate to ask her if you don't succeed in an exercice or don't get a technique/reasoning. She's paid to help!

[littletune]

Thank you!!    I really hope math will be ok this year!! I'll think about what you said Nisa and maybe it will help me   And I'll think about showing that to my teacher too

[_nisa_]

Keep us posted

[littletune]

I will I will  tomorrow school starts  ... but maybe it won't be too bad 

[go12_3]

I will I will  tomorrow school starts  ... but maybe it won't be too bad 

Best wishes in your school this year, littletune!   

[littletune]

Best wishes in your school this year, littletune!   

Thank you!! 

[go12_3]

Thank you!! 

You're welcome!