What really bothers me is if I'm demonstrating something to my student by PLAYING something on the piano, and their parent/grandparent opens the door and asks why I'm playing the piano. I don't know, but I'd assume a piano teacher at some point has to play SOMETHING on the piano, 2 seconds long or 20 seconds long, to help clarify something.
...I show her the gist of how I wanted her to play it, by literally playing about 8 bars of the piece. Right away her mom comes in and says "that doesn't sound like Catherine playing..." in the most aggressive way possible. I'm a VERY passive person, so I'm not going to scream at the mother, but I explained why I was 'playing the piano' during her daughter's lesson.
I always seem to get that 'oh you can play it and you're just showing off' undertone whenever a parent bursts into the room. They sit there reading a magazine for 30 minutes, and don't give a crap once they are out of the building, don't read what I wrote in the notebook, forget to pay for lessons, but have no trouble taking jabs at the teacher as soon as they hear him playing the piano!!! Trust me, if I wanted to steal the spotlight, 8 bars of 'the clock' doesn't cut it
I was interested in the private, underlying creative musicianship, which he had in abundance; that's what I wanted to learn.
My playing is untwirly and fully clothed.
"I have remarked on the forum of wanting to be a "monster" in my playing," I'm fascinated by this. Can you explain?
I'm definitely still wowed and impressed when I have the opportunity to see up close and personally feats that I'm not necessarily currently achieving, so long as it's in an emotionally safe environment for me (and that is really true).
.....I would imagine you have a nice range of impressive pieces at your fingertips and could probably find something that is fitting for the individual asking, and for the reason they are asking. In some cases, they are right and they probably won't --for one reason or another-- ever be able to achieve what you are achieving. If they are honestly seeing that, then it's pretty difficult to back out of or sugar coat that after the fact. If they have asked because they actually want to see somebody do something that they will never be able to do, that's obviously one thing. However, in other cases, there are probably fairly impressive pieces that may in fact be achievable for them, even if it's a year or two down the road.
... I cannot see any point in a teacher doing it solely for personal gratification, but if it is likely to help or inspire the pupil then fine.
What age group are we talking about here?
...I feel you have to have some technical knowledge of certain passages to be able to show it to them, if necessary. I've spoken with some colleagues who absolutely refuse to play one note in a lesson, saying that the student has to find it for himself (?). Rubbish.
I am a hands-on teacher and play during lessons as a rule. However, I only play pieces that the student is working on, so they can hear how it should sound and can watch my technique. I haven't found this to be discouraging to any of my students. Because I'm playing something that they themselves ARE learning and is NOT above their reach, it doesn't overwhelm them.
As for impressing my students (and their parents) with more advanced/difficult pieces, I save that for the recital. I think playing at recitals can be inspiring to the students and it cultivates an attitude of respect for me as a teacher. I'm not even that good, but to an audience of people who can't play the piano AT ALL, anything I do is impressive.
I think "emotionally safe" are the key words. I have had students go to competitions, recitals what have you and then come back to me saying, wow this person played so amazingly etc and some even felt bad through watching the entire performance and had no one to vent their feelings to (which I think can be pretty destructive and sometimes even difficult for me to find out from them when I ask about it in the lesson). Some are simply wowed by it and impressed, but there are some who feel down and start to think less of themselves and their achievements, many keep it to themselves which I think as a teacher need to expose and talk to them about it in the safe lesson environment. I have always thought of teaching as very psychologically based, that is your student needs to have a healthy mind if they are to do their very best learning something. There is a serious problem with how teaching has been done over the hundreds of years, mass teaching never works but we have all been forced into doing it. Some students can cope with it psychologically but many suffer silently with no one during the lesson to speak to. A teacher teaching a mass class cannot look after each of their students individually, there is just no time for that during the lesson, so those who observe that they are falling behind, getting less than average marks to the class, start to feel depressed, down, uninterested etc, because people are doing so much better than them, and they are just stupid. I find performing for my students shows them a level that is beyond most of their reach. I like demonstrating this to students with little confidence in themselves because I can use it as a tool to get them to talk about what they think their failures and short comings are through the medium of piano. Then I can discuss life issues that brought me to being able to play the piano at my level depending on the students psychological needs. I can then ask them to describe what they do about making themselves feel better about themselves, I try to show them baby steps towards success and get them excited over winning these short term goals which works towards a medium term which thus builds towards their final goal which may be many years away. I try to relate these things to other things in their life outside of piano, whether it be school, sports, family etc. Talking in terms of their interests is essential. So when a student ask me to play something that I have learned I notice both these positive and negative reactions, those that take it as inspiration and those who feel belittled by it. The students of mine who feel belittled I take great care to try and understand them and why they think like this. You can predict which students would react like this even before doing so, it is usually those who are not very confident in themselves. I find a handful of students need their self confidence improved and sometimes performing for them and then talking with them about how they feel is quite therapeutic. It is difficult however to put in words what to say to a student like this because how you relate to each student is different. But for youngsters I always try to make them realize how much work I put into my piano playing and that whatever I do doesn't come without this hard work. Some of them think that you can play at a high standard simply because you can, not because of the steps and long planning in your life you have had to make to get to that point, they still don't fully understand the power of long term goal setting and persistent effort over years and years, I have to say however that I do come across older students who still don't totally this understand it either. Yes, what I play for them always depends I guess. But even if I play something that is say only 8th grade I would say a good 70-80% of my beginner students would never achieve that level. Not because they can't but because they don't have the personal urge to do so. They just like to hear these "difficult" things done by other people and their mind is set that it is a level they can never achieve but can gawk at. I like to take apart this unproductive thinking from my younger students, I find it my duty as a teacher to do so and force them to understand the hard work that goes behind doing anything in life at a higher standard. To me this type of thinking kills your dreams and aspirations, it will reduce your potential and persistent willingness to aim for the stars, it gives you excuses not to apply yourself.Yeah I think it would be ridiculous to play something out of the students league if they didn't ask for it. I remember going to a piano store to test out some pianos and the piano salesman kept playing the piano for me and wouldn't let me play. He showed me like 10+ pianos for 30 minutes not letting me touch it and just playing all of his music (repeating a simplified version of Warsaw concerto many times) which was pretty good but he could have been a student of mine . In the end I asked him if I could play and he let me, then walked away when I started to play the original version of the Warsaw Concerto. He didn't speak a word to me after that but he let me play on all the pianos. This man in his late 40s I would say reacted negatively when listening to someone better than himself play the piano. Someone who reacted positively would start talking to you more about piano or whatever! That is the normal reaction I get and it is good, but the negative reactions my heart goes out for them because I want to know why they think like this, I can't grab this piano salesman and sit him down and start talking to him about it, the environment is just totally unsafe for him.But I have to also be careful not to misinterpret someones reaction. I know some people do not talk to me after hearing me because they might be too shy to talk to someone to plays piano or taken by surprise or whatever. I remember in Turkey I played for a restaurant which happened to have a piano (something that I found difficult to find in Turkey!) When we left there where a few of the staff standing at the door waiting for us to leave. I really didn't take notice of it but I did smile and say goodbye to them all. I though it was part of the service perhaps. But then my uncle who is Turkish said that they where very impressed and don't always stand and the door to see their customers out. I also remember going to a smoking room in Turkey and an old man waved at me but as a westerner it looked like a "go away" gesture, but it actually meant come here, he was inviting me to sit down. So I guess what I am getting at is that we misinterpret people on many levels and we are all so unique and different. The ethnic background your students is generally important to understand. Like how the Australian Chinese compared to the Caucasian Aussie, generally their views on work ethic are different. We have to be careful of our students cultural background but of course focus on the individual first, their cultural background and expectations helps us understand them better.All ages, but generally I find the under 25's who have a tendency to feel negative over observing someone who is much better than themselves. I know myself even though I trained myself at a high level still got depressed and annoyed when I heard a 9 year old child play something that I could only play when I was a teenager, or a blind person playing something that challenges you with sight. You get over these things, eventually you ignore them because you are so interested in where you are going. It is wonderful to see other peoples journey and enjoy it and be happy for them. We have to stop comparing ourselves, but this is very difficult and quite an inbuilt human function, most of us master it with time but there are plenty that suffer in silence their whole life.I totally agree, actions say a hundred words. There are some things at piano which are extremely slow and inefficient to put into words and especially since a students attempt at the correct technique requires custom directions, putting these in words is just too confusing for them. You take their hand, improve their position, demonstrate it with your own hand, get into their heads to know what they are thinking while they are doing it, what are they feeling, when they make a change what does the change feel like, what is the small difference between right and wrong etc etc. We of course try to put these actions into words so that they can actively practice the motion with confidence and not rely completely on their muscular memory but a combination, conscious memory understanding the general rules and the muscular which confirms it and elaborates upon it.I play for all of my students their pieces as well. It is a vital tool as a music teacher I find and you can transfer more knowledge faster doing this than simply allowing them to play and talking specific words pertaining to their challenges. We must do both of course. I find how I talk to my students as they play is always different as well, some can't focus when I say a lot so I say symbols and shapes depending upon what they can personally understand as the mental chunk. Some students of mine are interested in what I can play and what is the most difficult piece I play. Which I always groan on in inside when they request that. Usually it is because they heard someone amazing at their school and never heard piano played like that before and want to know if I can do anything like that, it is a fair enough request I guess. Some prospective students of mine ask me to play before taking lessons. I think this is also a fair request since who wants a teacher who cannot actually demonstrate anything and is all talk?I personally find it hard to resist and play something below my level or "slow and sleepy" if they ask for a demonstration. I guess in the back of my head I still think I have to show off to satisfy whatever expectations of me as a teacher they have. But is not really showing off, its just playing music that I learn which might happen to sound advanced, its not my fault!!! I can't stand to play something sleepy and slow if they ask me to play something, most people want to see some acrobatics. But I have actually been indirectly told to play something "less noisy" by an older student of mine who was 80+, she said it by putting her hands on her ears lol. That put me in my place, you little whippersnapper stop hurting my ears and play something gentle and pretty NOW!!!!
... Some of which is a very used up "audio track" that I have heard in my head for years, and probably shouldn't listen to anymore. Sometimes I need to deal with things and not ignore them, but sometimes the problem is dealt with by going to the piano and practicing focusedly instead of brewing in psychological things.
...in some cases, like mine, for example, it's not helpful to "explain" that the reason a person can play as they do when I can't is because of the years they have been studying and the years of care and expert training they have had.
To me that translates to them having had a system of support and culture and opportunity that I just never had and so what are we, yes we, going to do about that now?? I simply can't peacefully accept that I will never be able to play or express what I need to express based on what my past has or hasn't been. I certainly don't need to be reminded of my past, and I certainly don't need to be reminded of what people can do that I can't simply because they were born into different circumstances.
...I am coming to realize that being a child prodigy, having all of the proper support and training, it's not everything and can sometimes not even be much at all if not for the individual involved in it. So, as far as I can see in the world right now, even if a person seems to have everything on Earth going for them, it still doesn't clearly pave a pathway to divine, yes divine, expression for them.
I remember going to a piano store to test out some pianos and the piano salesman kept playing the piano for me and wouldn't let me play. He showed me like 10+ pianos for 30 minutes not letting me touch it and just playing all of his music (repeating a simplified version of Warsaw concerto many times) which was pretty good but he could have been a student of mine . In the end I asked him if I could play and he let me, then walked away when I started to play the original version of the Warsaw Concerto. He didn't speak a word to me after that but he let me play on all the pianos. This man in his late 40s I would say reacted negatively when listening to someone better than himself play the piano. Someone who reacted positively would start talking to you more about piano or whatever! That is the normal reaction I get and it is good, but the negative reactions my heart goes out for them because I want to know why they think like this, I can't grab this piano salesman and sit him down and start talking to him about it, the environment is just totally unsafe for him.
I'm sorry in advance if I offend you, but I just want to interject that it's really not that difficult to guess why that salesman reacted the way he did, and it's rather silly to assume he needs to be "sat down" and talked to about it.
Face it, you didn't just show that you're more skilled than him, you rubbed it in his face by playing the more difficult version of a piece he demonstrated for you, and in my eyes that's pretty insulting.
And you wonder that he wasn't standing around gushing over your talent "positively"? I think his reaction is less due to the fact that you're more skilled than him (I'm sure he's seen plenty of people better than him) and more to the arrogance of such blatant showing off as though in retaliation for him being the typical pushy piano salesman.
No need to be sorry because I hardly have any personal feelings when interacting with people online here.
If I played a more difficult version that does prove I am more skilled than him in that one piece, not that it was my aim but I was getting bored listening to his simplified rendition and thought I would encourage some interest in him by playing one of his own pieces. I don't see how it is insulting as well given that he is a salesman and he is supposed to be selling me a product. In economics "consumer is king", so if he felt insulted he should change profession.Well you where not there my friend so your confidence in what happened is without basis. In fact I let him play his simple pieces for 30 minutes while he showed me his pianos, if I wanted to be rude I could have pushed him off the piano and started playing, or say that his playing was simplified and I could do better. I did not do that and in fact suffered listening to him for half an hour politely agreeing with the difference between the models.
It was you who both who instigated this ridiculous assumption that I wanted to show off to a salesman ( I wanted to test out the pianos properly and also play the proper version of a piece which is annoying if you hear a simplified one all the time), I merely played what is normal for me which to him probably looked much more than what he could achieve. The fact that he was showing off to begin with his playing then I played for merely 5 minutes which sent him running off to his office is the point which is interesting. In fact I used it as an example of how people react when observing someone better than themselves which to me is very instructive and has nothing to do with what you are on about. And you don't know me so don't try to guess what "deeper problems" I have it just makes you look stupid. Bibra you look stupid since I said I was not showing off to gain approval or anything of that sort, I played what is normal for me but very advanced for him, yet if you persist that I merely want to squash and crush people, good on ya. You are missing the point of the thread it is ok, the psychology of the situation interests me not the guess work of strangers as yourself who merely think I am trying to do anything sinister or of bad taste.When you are in a piano sales room and you are a buyer, the salesman should have ZERO problems with me playing the piano, no matter what I play. If you think that there is a problem on my behalf on this issue then I thank god you are not running a piano retail business.
What I find interesting about this situation is that you declare you're basically completely detached from it emotionally, but your selection of piece that day is suspect. If you truly didn't care about the salesman, you could have (and probably would have) played whatever repetoire you were currently working on to test out the pianos. Instead, you chose what he played, out of annoyance and a desire to play it "right," maybe even because you just wanted the guy to leave you alone and wanted to prove your skill was greater than his so that he would. That is just what I get from an objective look at what you've told us and the way you've told it to us.
It's difficult to assume how someone else will respond to greater skill when it's displayed. In an ideal world, maybe everyone would be thrilled to have it shown to them that there's a level of skill out there greater than theirs. But at the same time, is that a good thing? Maybe it's the negative feelings you get from seeing a higher level of skill showing you up that leads some people to drive to achieve greater skill in the first place. The trick is to manage those negative feelings to get them to push you towards your goals instead of letting them overwhelm you.
....Usually we only read about the first - the idea that we get "inspired" because it's impressive and we would want to play like that one day. This is the first time that I have seen another reaction being verbalized: that as a student we may become seriously discouraged as we see how far below the teacher's playing our own is.
The second way - the shift that occurred for me - happens when you realize that there are ways of doing things. Good playing is not some kind of magic, and it does not flow from a teacher by osmosis to the student. It is not one seamless blob of something. Yes, inspiration, talent and the inner muse exist. But good playing is also crafted through specific things that we can learn. What is he doing with timing? How is he producing that sound? How did he approach phrasing? The mundane things we learn in lessons and practice - even tempo, controlled sound, articulation - are the painter's pallet that the professional musician uses. And we're in the middle of getting that pallet. I think what I'm trying to say is that if we listen to how that teacher is making that magic happen, and know that we are getting the means to create our own music once we have that same set of tools, then it is a different kind of listening. This idea of inspiration - emulation has always made me feel uneasy. But if it leads to "How did you do that?" "What do I need to learn to reach this?" could that be a different experience. The million dollar question is whether a student would listen that way. I had to know a little bit before I started to do so.
Birba, is that in response to what I wrote, or just a general comment?
I like your 2nd way of viewing the issue, it is a very constructive and understanding approach. You no longer merely stand aback amazed at what you see but you be encouraged to learn how to do it yourself. You then understand the amount of time and work goes behind focused practice. But it is an easier path to remain in the 1st view you mentioned. Just be amazed and impressed and hope that you can just improve in your own little way. Most of us simply do not have the time to devote to play piano at the highest standards but who is to say you cannot do high standard stuff in particular areas?
Seriously - should anyone know more about sensitivity than musicians and other artists?Let's put it in another scenario. Imagine that you know nothing about drawing, but love to look at them. You decide to take a class.You begin to feel somewhat satisfied at your progress on your 3rd lesson.Your teacher - comes over to you and draws a masterpiece of a design.You look at yours.How would you feel?On the other hand -it could be that on the 3rd day - you feel somewhat happy with your progress but for some reason you just can't seem to get one part of it down right. Your teacher comes alongside of you and begins to show you point by point how to draw the inside of a leaf. How would you feel?
Topic: Showing off to student. 