So I think I'm tone deaf

[calabi_yau]

I haven't played much for about four years now, but I was super serious about music in my teen years - practiced five hours a day (including on desktops), hoped to go to conservatory, got absolutely terrified before lessons and insanely jealous of the neighbor girl three years my junior and twice the player, etc. During all that I somehow managed to avoid any sort of ear training by cleverly jumping from teacher to teacher, thus confusing them about what I'd already covered. See, despite the fact that I could play Beethoven sonatas, I couldn't even tell a third from an octave 100% of the time, and I was terrified they'd find this out and like, I don't know, cackle and put a dunce cap on my head and send me to some remedial music-student class where kindergarteners would be showing me up daily.

This is really irritating because despite my passion for music I seem to have less innate musical ability than most non-musicians. It's like I'm only a clever imitation of a piano player - impressive when playing set pieces but totally helpless when someone's like, "Yo, tune this guitar". I can't tell if one note is higher or lower than another unless the interval is quite large (especially if they're different timbres), so I have to totally rely on tuning devices when doing stuff like that. Likewise I can only tell if a piano is out of tune if I can compare a certain piece played on it to how I remember it sounding on my own piano.

So yeah. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem, really. It seems like it'd be most common among classical pianists, seeing as classical music is written down fairly accurately (no improv) and the piano is one of the few instruments which can essentially be played with no ear (the keys/notes are exact). Or maybe it's just another fundamental defect of mine. Either way, I gotta fix it. As it stands I feel like an automaton that's been taught to play by rote as a parlor trick. I have an intuitive sense for other arts and love music to death, so it frustrates me to have to learn it entirely analytically. Feels like I'm missing something.

[birba]

I think tone-deaf refers only to the imitating by voice.  Not being able to "carry a tune".  So, maybe calling yourself tone-deaf is going a  little too far.  But as you've demonstrated, it has little to do with your abilities as a musician and pianist.  So perhaps you're futilely degrading yourself.  It is strange you can't tell a third from an octave.
You said something about learning by rote.  Did you read those Beethoven sonatas or did you just listen to them on some cd?

[calabi_yau]

Thanks for your response! When doing online ear-training exercises, I can tell a third from an octave 90% of the time. But when I miss it I feel ridiculous, because really, who confuses those?

As long as the music is written down as it's to be played, I can play it. So yeah, I definitely read the Beethoven sonatas. I can even recognize if I'm playing wrong notes if I've never heard the piece and I can pick out melodies I don't have the music for if they're highly tonal and I'm given enough time (trial and error). But when it comes to recognizing intervals/chords/notes in a vacuum or reproducing harmony instead of melody, I'm pretty helpless. It wouldn't really even bother me except for the obvious practical application of tuning. Also I can't sing properly, but who wants to hear that anyway?

[birba]

You mean you want to be a tuner?
I don't even think that would be a problem.  Because it all has to do with fifths and octaves, I think.
90 % is good, though!  I really think a lot of it has to do with experience. (i.e. playing the piano, practising, listening, etc.)  Remember.  Martha Argerich doesn't have perfect pitch, believe it or not!

[calabi_yau]

Ah, no, I don't want to be a tuner, but I would like to have a more intuitive sense for intervals so I can, I don't know, mess around and actually sing things properly and be like one of those cool musician types who's like, "Yeah, let's transpose that to A Lydian", etc. etc.

Actually, the problem came up when I was trying to learn guitar and jazz. I'm working with Mark Levine's "Jazz Theory Book" and the very first page is getting an intuitive feel for intervals. I play the examples, try to sing them, listen to the songs, but every day I have to start all over again because I just cannot remember what they sound like. I'm not sure if this is normal or if it's a personal problem. As for the guitar, I can't tune it by matching strings because I can't tell if they're sounding different notes (and if so whether they're lower or higher); I have to use an electronic tuner.

I've been doing ear training exercises on good-ear.com lately, just the "beginner" section, and sometimes I think I'm getting better but I always end up with around an 85% accuracy rate. And that is trying pretty hard too, playing the intervals multiple times and slowly (for some reason I find it easier to hear intervals played on the violin). But to be fair, I've only been doing this for a few days. If it's just a matter of work you have to put in, I can do it with no problem - it's just that everybody acts like it comes naturally so I don't know if there's something wrong with me.

[braintist]

You can train your ear by pressing 2 notes a third apart on the piano and singing the 2 tones and check if its correct. This should improve your hearing sensitivity.