Types of students and teaching to match them [Bob asks]

[Bob]

What are the different types of piano students?  The serious student, the piano-for-fun students, the student with a million after-school activities, the my-parents-are-making-me-take-lessons students.... what else?


And, what type of teaching should go with these students?   For example, you certainly don't want to load a student who takes piano lessons for fun with lots of serious, conservatory music, do you?

[pianoannie]

Those questions are a bit difficult to answer, because I find that one student can cycle through various categories you listed.  And certainly many students end up surprising me after a few years--some who start out without showing exceptional interest or talent, end up as college piano majors.  So I feel we need to be the best teacher we can be to every student.  As far as "serious conservatory music," I rarely have a student who doesn't enjoy classical music.  Many students choose to focus mostly on serious music, many others like a nice mix.  "Variety is the spice of life," and I think that, by using well-loved pieces from different genres, the student becomes well-rounded and stays interested.

[kulahola]

What are the different types of piano students?  The serious student, the piano-for-fun students, the student with a million after-school activities, the my-parents-are-making-me-take-lessons students.... what else?


And, what type of teaching should go with these students?   For example, you certainly don't want to load a student who takes piano lessons for fun with lots of serious, conservatory music, do you?

I dont see the point of teaching a student for fun, as you call him. Piano is a difficult art which demands tons of hard work. Doesnt go together with fun.

[Swan]

you certainly don't want to load a student who takes piano lessons for fun with lots of serious, conservatory music, do you?

I guess it depends on their definition of fun.  Some people thrive on challenges and think tackling something excruciatingly difficult is the best fun there is in life!  So for these people, give them something excruciatingy difficult to tackle.

Add to your list, the "I want to keep having lessons but I don't want to practise students ."  Depending on how the teacher feels about this type will determine how they're treated I guess.  I had a teenager doing her last year at high school, who basically told me this.  She just wanted to have half an hour a week where she could do something other than maths and physics.  Most of her lesson was spent just on how to improvise with chords 'cause she also liked to sing and just wanted to accompany herself singing.  She came to me for most of the year, but then started to cancel lessons because of her heavy work committments.  I finally 'released' her from my studio.    It was very sad for her and for me and I felt like a big meany, but unfortunately, frustrations aside, I needed to have a more reliable income.  (Ahhh, there's that ugly 'money' word again!)

[Shagdac]

With the attitudes and goals varying from student to student, I think it very important that a teacher can deal with each student as a whole person, individually. Certainly not all students taking piano lessons desire to become concert pianists. Others may want to play for their own enjoyment. I think it is imperative prior to the selection of a teacher, (or taking on a student) to interview with them, and recongnize what goals they are trying to reach. While a teacher may have a somewhat "set" teaching method or schedule, I feel it can be tailored to suit individual needs.  I think it's important to have students play what they love to play, something they WANT to learn. There are so many different types of reperatoire that certainly there's something for everyone.

And what PianoAnni states is really true. Some students will start off taking piano not being truly interested and then will end up loving it! That's when it's exciting. I had a little boy, who wanted to play the drums in school. But the requirement of the school, was that any child who wanted to play a band instrument had to have a minimum of 1 year piano background (I had never heard of that before). Anyway, his sister was taking because she really wanted to, but the little boy was taking because he wanted to play the drums the following year. As it has turned out, he now loves it and is doing quite well. He still is going to play the drums, but will be starting his 3rd year of piano.

As for students that have a million after school activities, or parents are making them take lessons.....I would still make certain prior to taking on the student that they (and parents) understood what was expected as a piano student. How much practice would most likely be involved, what type of committment it takes, etc. This way even though the teacher may alter their method based on individual need of the student, the student would still be expected to provide the same committment as all students.

S

(And of course for those "piano-just-for-fun" students, colored markers, stickers, hand stamps, and candy treats are GREAT!!!)

[Bob]

Shagdac,

It's great that you've got a percussion student interested in playing the piano.  School systems that have enough students interested in music can require their percussion students to take piano lessons.  Otherwise, you can end up with a student who only knows how to play snare drum -- ie not a full percussionist - and all the headaches that result from that situation.  

Good point about student switching their goals and interests in piano.

The "piano for fun" type of student -- There are students like this out there.  I'm wondering how to deal with a student who makes little progress but enjoys it and keeps coming back.

[Swan]

Shagdac,
 I'm wondering how to deal with a student who makes little progress but enjoys it and keeps coming back.

Find out why they're making 'little' progress - which is better than no progress!  Is it because they don't practise consistently?  Are they practising awkwardly with wasted effort?  Are they still having problems with note reading?  Is it because they also have swimming in the morning, karate in the afternoon, art classes every second day.  Are they having difficulties at school? Is their personality one of a daydreamer, short attention span.  Are they lazy?  Are they not really excited about the repertoire? Are they not supported/encouraged well at home?  Is it because they actually like you and your company and the fact you show them attention that keeps them agreeing to return, or do they actually love the piano?

To help these type of students, you need to find out the why before you can find out the how to address it.

[reinvent]

Bob,
Most adult students that I've had just want to learn for enjoyment.  Not to be some great pianist - but more for fun.
I agree with Shadrach - it's really helpful to find out what their goals are.  Then you can help them reach it and you will have a clearer aim.
I try to cut back on the theory that I really do enjoy - and concentrate on chord symbols so they can easily play with most any of the fake books.  (Are you allowed to talk about fake books in this forum?  
With children - I try to take their personality into consideration too - and lay a good foundation but intersperse fun projects like having them bring a favorite CD and learning how to play by ear.

[rhapsody in orange]

I guess the kind of students they are depend a lot on the individual. for the younger students, most of then were made to learn the piano by their parents. i mean, how often do you see a 4 year old saying that he or she is seriously interested in the piano? at least that was the case for me when i first started out.

but i think the best thing a teacher can do is to inspire his/her students, get them to like what they're playing and eventually love the piano.

i currently have a student who's only interested to play pop music and doesn't want to practise classical/technical pieces whatsoever. so i'm currently trying to convince her that a good technique will aid in learning pieces and hope that she knows that those pieces are for her own good. anyone has any other suggestions on what i can do?

[bernhard]

There are several ways to organise and group students in order to answer your question. I find the most useful to be this one:

There are four kinds of students: Toddlers, beginners, intermediate and advanced. For a full description of their requirements and teaching approaches, have a look at reply #6 on this thread:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1078389267

The second helpful and useful way to regard this subject is to focus on types of attitude, rather than kinds of student. Although students are very different as individuals, the attitudes they display at different stages can be surprisingly similar.

One’s attitude is perhaps the single most important factor determining how well or how badly (if at all) one is going to learn how to play a musical instrument. Although I am going to refer to the piano, all that follows apply equally well to all other musical instruments.

What exactly is attitude? The Oxford Dictionary provides the following definitions:

1.      A settled way of thinking or feeling. A position of the body indicating a particular mental state.
2.      Truculent behaviour (informal, chiefly N. America). Self-confident behaviour.

The word originally comes from 1700s French and Italian and meant fitness, posture, as well as the disposition of figure in statuary or paintings.

To me, attitude means a behaviour at the root of which are certain – and often unconscious - beliefs. Usually, if you can spot the belief and challenge it, the behaviour tends to change dramatically.

It is very easy, and surprisingly common to find the following attitudes on the part of students or prospective students:

1.       Practising / musical theory / reading a score are not important. Gut feeling is all that matters.
2.       Practising / playing scales / playing technical exercises / are boring and confusing and never gets anywhere.
3.       I find all pieces too difficult.
4.       Practising / musical theory / reading a score are only for people who want to be concert pianists. I just want to have fun playing the piano.
5.       Giving up at the first difficulty (=  to expect to be born knowing.)

These are all negative or defeatist attitudes from people who have no confidence in their playing, and have not been taught how to practise correctly.

But one may also find the opposite - and equally bad - kind of attitude:

1.       I find playing very easy. You just play by ear, or whatever you want in any way you want.
2.       The way I play is always right. After all music is about expressing oneself. So I will express myself by playing my way.
3.       The teacher told me to sit in a certain way and to position my fingers in a certain way. I just can’t be bothered; I feel much more comfortable doing it my way. What does the teacher know, anyway?

It is true that a student usually will not say things like that, however if one observes their behaviour one may well conclude that these attitudes form the basis of their approach to piano lessons / practise.

Here are some examples of what they actually say (and my usual response):

1.      “I can’t”. (Of course, you can’t. If you could you would not need to come to lessons.)
2.      “I don’t think I’m good enough” (I agree, so we better start working towards improving).
3.      “I will do it my own way” (What is so good about your way? You stink!)
4.      “This does not work” (Your language does not correspond to reality: Instead say: “I can not make this work. Please, help me.”)
5.      "This is sooo booooring!!!" (Again, your language does not reflect reality. Nothing is boring. Boredom is not a quality of things/processes, boredom is an inner feeling. Only you can control your inner feelings. Control them!)
6.      A long winding explanation why s/he can’t play/practise (It may explain, but it does not justify. In any case, I am not interested in guilt, what can we do to put it right?)
7.      "Can I stop piano lessons?" (Of course, you can. You should learn because you want to. Learning music is a privilege, not a compulsory torture")

Needless to say, progress in such cases will be very slow, or non-existent. And without progress no joy, just boredom.

So what can one do? In my opinion it is useless to fight against bad attitudes (or try to suppress them). Like bad habits, instead of fighting them, we ignore them, and substitute them by good attitudes.

One must approach the learning of music with a very different set of attitudes. Here are some of the attitudes one finds in top musicians and top students that progress and learn at an almost unbelievable rate:

1.       Everyone should play a musical instrument. Everyone can play a musical instrument (advantages of music, the problem of age, myths relating to music learning)
2.       Playing a musical instrument is a skill that can be developed (no one is born knowing how to play - the ability to play is not fixed genetically - it is not some talent only genius are born with)
3.       I am a musician (never mind how good)
4.       I can get better and better in my playing (one improves all the time - perfection is unattainable)
5.       Playing a musical instrument requires a deliberate effort. Even if you can play by ear and have a natural talent, in order to improve and go beyond what one can presently do, will require a deliberate effort.
6.       A piece that appears impossible / complicated at first can often be made simpler.
7.       Take one step at a time.
8.       Separate your ego from your music playing. Look at your playing objectively.
9.       The purpose of playing is not to be right every time and never to make a mistake.
10.       Listening and learning is a key part of playing a musical instruments.
11.       Always be humble. Arrogance is the mark of a poor player.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.