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Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help (Read 3406 times)

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #50 on: October 16, 2012, 06:52:20 PM »
Hello! :) I haven't been posting in this thread for a long time! (I got a warning that this topic has not been posted in for at least 500 days.  :P )

So I have a few questions, if anyone could help me that would be great! :)

Someone asked me if I could check an English letter that she wrote which has to be pretty formal! And she doesn't know English that well, and I really don't know about formal letters so I'm asking if anyone here knows.  8)

1. So... the letter is not for one specific person that she would know, so she started it with:

Dear Mr. .... That kinda doesn't seem right to me so I said it would be better something like: Dear Sir or Dear Sirs.... what do you think? can anyone help me with this?

2. She wrote: I am ... (name), student of...
Would it be better if it was: I am .... (name), I am a student of... or at least: I am... (name), a student of...

3. She wrote a sentence like: Can you please check for me, the real date when father C. was there and what was his work.
And I corrected it like:

I was wondering if you could please check for me what was the real date when Father C. was there and what his work was.  :-\
but it still doesn't sound all that great... I mean I tried to change the sentence as little as possible but... I don't know... any advise?

4. One more sentence... she wrote: Can you, please, write me a name and year of book, where is this written?
And I corrected it:
Could you please write me the name and the year of the book in which this information is written?
Does that sound ok? Also, is it ok without the commas?  :-\

5. And the last thing... the ending... she wrote: Best greeting,
and I wrote: Sincerely,
Would it be better: best regards? or something?

That's all... if anyone could help me that would be great!!!!  :) (and if not that's ok too  :P )
Thank you very much!  :)  8)

Offline Bob

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #51 on: October 16, 2012, 11:38:14 PM »
1.

Dear Sir or Madam:

Or just...
To whom it may concern,

Maybe something like 'dear x group members:'

Or just leave it out.  Saves space.  They know it's meant for them.  

If you don't care and it's less formal, I've used "Hello," instead.


2.
Yes, I'd stick "a" in there.  I'm not sure about the comma.   I am Bob, a student of piano.  Or break it in two sentences and avoid the issue that way.


3.
Too wordy.
If possible, please confirm the date Father C. was there.     Or "... Father C. visited."  instead.
Please confirm the date Father C. visited and on what he worked.    ....or 'and what he worked on" even though it's grammatically wrong.  It sounds weird being grammatically correct.  Although it is writing.... so.. it should be correct. It just sounds odd.

4.
Yes, too many comas.
Please give me the title and publication date of the book.

5.
Sincerely is fine.  Best regards is fine.  Regards is fine.


That's even worse than I can be for being long-winded.  If you're translating, you just need to get the meaning across.  You could translate word by word or phrase by phrase (which is probably easier) but it can probaby be cut down if you stick with the meaning.  You can probably get closer to the intent too and copy the style into a different language.  Yeah, I see you said you were trying to change as little as possible.  If they're paying you, they probably would appreciate having it more concise.  (Even my post here is waaay to wordy....)

Some of that could stay.  It's just wordy.  Makes it harder to read.  "Can you please check on this for me?"  Even that sounds normal to me.  I think some of the phrase and pieces of the sentences are just reordered.  Yoda talk.  It's not technically wrong but... It's weird.  And wordy.
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Offline j_menz

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #52 on: October 16, 2012, 11:51:44 PM »
1. So... the letter is not for one specific person that she would know, so she started it with:

Dear Mr. .... That kinda doesn't seem right to me so I said it would be better something like: Dear Sir or Dear Sirs.... what do you think? can anyone help me with this?


Dear Madam or Sir


2. She wrote: I am ... (name), student of...
Would it be better if it was: I am .... (name), I am a student of... or at least: I am... (name), a student of...

I am X, a student of...


3. She wrote a sentence like: Can you please check for me, the real date when father C. was there and what was his work.
And I corrected it like:

I was wondering if you could please check for me what was the real date when Father C. was there and what his work was.  :-\
but it still doesn't sound all that great... I mean I tried to change the sentence as little as possible but... I don't know... any advise?

Please advise the actual date(s) that Father C was there and briefly the nature of his work.

4. One more sentence... she wrote: Can you, please, write me a name and year of book, where is this written?
And I corrected it:
Could you please write me the name and the year of the book in which this information is written?
Does that sound ok? Also, is it ok without the commas?  :-\

Please also advise the title and publication date of the book.

5. And the last thing... the ending... she wrote: Best greeting,
and I wrote: Sincerely,
Would it be better: best regards? or something?

Yours faithfully

(is technically correct with the Dear Sir or Dear Madam type construct, Yours sincerely is properly used when it's addressed by name (eg, Dear Mr X))
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #53 on: October 17, 2012, 09:20:51 AM »
All above suggestions are OK. Stick with sincerely or best regards. Those other formal endings are going out of style.

The secret in writing letters is to get to the action word so the reader knows your wishes.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline j_menz

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #54 on: October 17, 2012, 11:06:11 PM »
Those other formal endings are going out of style.

Perhaps, but are not likely to affront anybody, whereas using a less formal or an "incorrect" one may not go down well. The letter appears to be asking someone to actually do something for the writer, and the writer does not know the receipient personally.  In such circumstances, I generally find it best to go with the correct, formal form even if it is a little old fashioned.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #55 on: October 18, 2012, 08:56:15 PM »
Thank you soooo much everyone!!!!! :) :) :) You really helped me a lot!!!  :)

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #56 on: November 29, 2012, 03:25:22 PM »
HI :) I'm checking something in English for someone again and I can't decide... is it more right to say "in the workplace" or "at the workplace" ? Could someone help me with that maybe?  :P

Offline j_menz

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #57 on: November 29, 2012, 11:12:06 PM »
HI :) I'm checking something in English for someone again and I can't decide... is it more right to say "in the workplace" or "at the workplace" ? Could someone help me with that maybe?  :P

Either could be correct depending on what precedes it; more information would be helpful - like the rest of the sentence.
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Offline Bob

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #58 on: November 29, 2012, 11:45:02 PM »
I'd go with  "in the workplace" or "at work."
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #59 on: November 30, 2012, 12:03:39 AM »
Oh something else (that I think is not so complicated I'm just not sure):
This sentence:
"Our discussion here takes its departure from Wolfram's work on variation in spoken laguages."

Does that mean that we will not be discussing that work anymore? or something? and that we'll be talking about something else?

Well thanks again!  :)
At least there's one I can make some sense of!  To say that a discussion takes its departure from something means that that something -- in this case, Wolfram's work -- is being used as a foundation and understood reference point for the entire discussion.  It does NOT mean that you are leaving it behind!

On the citation or non-citation -- my guess -- and that's all it is -- is that the meaning has to do with references to other studies or literature.  Those are commonly referred to in scholarly articles as "citations".  Non-citation, then would be statements or conclusions which are not backed up by reference to other works.

English is a remarkably complex language...
Ian

Offline cmg

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Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #61 on: November 30, 2012, 05:58:25 PM »

English is a remarkably complex language...


Do you speak and write another language?

With the language soup of Castellano and Catalunian in Barcelona the default language is English. In New york guys just off the boat can learn enough English in a short amount of time to pass the test and drive a cab.

I cannot imagine how long it might take to learn enough Slovenian to do the same in Littletune's city.
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Offline Bob

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #62 on: December 01, 2012, 01:07:22 AM »
I know an eastern European who says "wowels" instead of vowels.  Cracks me up.
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Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #63 on: December 01, 2012, 12:54:26 PM »
There was a study done on how removing tonsils affects the pronunciation certain Eastern European Wowels. All kidding aside, during the war how you pronounced certain words could determine whether you lived or died...
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #64 on: December 01, 2012, 10:28:48 PM »
Thanks everyone for commenting!!  :) i didn't expect so many comments!  :)  8)

Either could be correct depending on what precedes it; more information would be helpful - like the rest of the sentence.

Well... it's a kinda funny subject  :P  ;D ::) I know I'm being childish but whatever :P So the whole sentence would be: (and I don't know if the rest of the sentence is completely correct either but...)

"The purpose of this thesis was to establish, on the basis of reviewed technical and scientific literature, whether support in the workplace has an effect on the duration of breastfeeding."

I'd go with  "in the workplace" or "at work."

Thanks Bob :) in the end that kinda sounded more right to me too (cause the person who wrote it wrote "on the workplace").

At least there's one I can make some sense of!  To say that a discussion takes its departure from something means that that something -- in this case, Wolfram's work -- is being used as a foundation and understood reference point for the entire discussion.  It does NOT mean that you are leaving it behind!

On the citation or non-citation -- my guess -- and that's all it is -- is that the meaning has to do with references to other studies or literature.  Those are commonly referred to in scholarly articles as "citations".  Non-citation, then would be statements or conclusions which are not backed up by reference to other works.

English is a remarkably complex language...

Hi :) Thanks for explaining that! I don't think I would ever think of it that way! :)

LOL!!  Littletune, you are the BEST!!

 :P Thanks! Just because I spelled it wrong?  :P


I cannot imagine how long it might take to learn enough Slovenian to do the same in Littletune's city.

Yes everyone says Slovenian language is one of the most difficult ones.  :P

I know an eastern European who says "wowels" instead of vowels.  Cracks me up.

Oh Bob I know how you say it I just mixed up the letters and besides we don't have the letter "w" in our language so I'm not used to it that much.  :P

Offline j_menz

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #65 on: December 01, 2012, 11:20:05 PM »
"The purpose of this thesis was to establish, on the basis of reviewed technical and scientific literature, whether support in the workplace has an effect on the duration of breastfeeding."

Perfectly correct. If "this thesis" is the document in which the sentence appears, "this thesis is to establish" would be more correct - if it's another document, what you have is right.
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Offline Bob

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #66 on: December 02, 2012, 02:10:53 AM »
Ditto on the IS.  It sounds weird with WAS, unless it's at the very end, but even still... Active is better.  Was sounds like it's already happened.

Actually ditto on both things jmenz said above.
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Offline zzivauri

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #67 on: December 06, 2012, 05:38:02 AM »
  Forgive me if this has been said before, I didn't read all of the comments...But I will assume that wovel means vowel, and is simply a typo!

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #68 on: December 14, 2012, 03:15:55 PM »
Perfectly correct. If "this thesis" is the document in which the sentence appears, "this thesis is to establish" would be more correct - if it's another document, what you have is right.

Ditto on the IS.  It sounds weird with WAS, unless it's at the very end, but even still... Active is better.  Was sounds like it's already happened.

Actually ditto on both things jmenz said above.

Thanks  j_menz and Bob!  :)  :) yes it was in the same document but I think it is at the end of it... I mean it's an abstract or summary or something like that about that document that needs to be also in English (the rest of the document is not in English).

  Forgive me if this has been said before, I didn't read all of the comments...But I will assume that wovel means vowel, and is simply a typo!


Oh Bob I know how you say it I just mixed up the letters and besides we don't have the letter "w" in our language so I'm not used to it that much.  :P
...yes it was a typo  :P thanks for the comment!  :)

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #69 on: December 14, 2012, 03:37:33 PM »
Ok! I have sooooo many things right now!!!!! We had our windows changed this week and those people were here for the whole 2 days cause things were going wrong I didn't sleep all that much this week and I have a recital today AND I need to translate something again!!! and I was hoping I could do it during the weekend but NO of course not, I need to do it till tomorrow  ::) and it is complicated!!!!!!!! I don't even know how to start! The person who asked me to translate it said: "Could you please translate it into scientific English."  :o  ???  :-X I mean ok I know I'm pretty good at English for someone who never lived (or visited) any English speaking countries but..... scientific???????????????????????????? what??????????? I mean really?  So if anyone could help me a little (in a really short time  :-\ ) that would be SO HELPFUL!  :P I mean it's not a lot it's like maybe half a page or not even that but I don't even know how to start.... and I'm not even sure how to ask for help, because I can't say: oh please could someone tell me what this Slovene word would be in English....but I will try to describe the words  :-\ So...

1. could someone tell me what would be the English word for someone how lives close to the sea? Like in one part of a country that is close to the sea? Any ideas?  :-\

2. How would you call someone who is proud of their country and is like aware where they came from (like what is the country they were born in).

3. What's the word for someone who moves from one coutry into another, I mean like immigrant, but is there another word for that maybe?

Well that's all I will ask for now, I need to go to my recital!
And then I think I would have to try to write the whole sentences and ask you all to correct them... if anyone would want to...  :)

Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #70 on: December 14, 2012, 05:58:45 PM »
Ok! I have sooooo many things right now!!!!! We had our windows changed this week and those people were here for the whole 2 days cause things were going wrong I didn't sleep all that much this week and I have a recital today AND I need to translate something again!!! and I was hoping I could do it during the weekend but NO of course not, I need to do it till tomorrow  ::) and it is complicated!!!!!!!! I don't even know how to start! The person who asked me to translate it said: "Could you please translate it into scientific English."  :o  ???  :-X I mean ok I know I'm pretty good at English for someone who never lived (or visited) any English speaking countries but..... scientific???????????????????????????? what??????????? I mean really?  So if anyone could help me a little (in a really short time  :-\ ) that would be SO HELPFUL!  :P I mean it's not a lot it's like maybe half a page or not even that but I don't even know how to start.... and I'm not even sure how to ask for help, because I can't say: oh please could someone tell me what this Slovene word would be in English....but I will try to describe the words  :-\ So...

1. could someone tell me what would be the English word for someone how lives close to the sea? Like in one part of a country that is close to the sea? Any ideas?  :-\

2. How would you call someone who is proud of their country and is like aware where they came from (like what is the country they were born in).

3. What's the word for someone who moves from one coutry into another, I mean like immigrant, but is there another word for that maybe?

Well that's all I will ask for now, I need to go to my recital!
And then I think I would have to try to write the whole sentences and ask you all to correct them... if anyone would want to...  :)

1. We live next to the sea but I can't come up with word to define ourselves. All sorts of words like beach-bum and surf-rat come to mind but they aren't positive. I'll try to get back to you when we think of something.

2. Patriot

3. Ex-pat, ex-patriot
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #71 on: December 14, 2012, 08:36:47 PM »
1. We live next to the sea but I can't come up with word to define ourselves. All sorts of words like beach-bum and surf-rat come to mind but they aren't positive. I'll try to get back to you when we think of something.

2. Patriot

3. Ex-pat, ex-patriot

Thank you very much for answering Oxy! :) Well I tried finding the first one on the internet and I typed the word in Slovenian and I found it on wikipedia and then I only changed the language to English and I got this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_Littoral
Do you think this is ok?

Oh patriot, of course! thanks! :) this word is meant in a good way right?

But if someone is an ex-patriot does that mean they are not anymore? cause then I don't think I could use it.  :-\ cause I think this guy was still a patriot even though he moved to another country (I think he had to move, or was forced to move or something like that).

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #72 on: December 14, 2012, 08:50:49 PM »
Oh patriot, of course! thanks! :) this word is meant in a good way right?

Patriot can be meant either way, but typically positive.  Interpretation of what you mean is usually based on the context.  MOST of the time, it is used as a positive term.

But if someone is an ex-patriot does that mean they are not anymore? cause then I don't think I could use it.  :-\ cause I think this guy was still a patriot even though he moved to another country (I think he had to move, or was forced to move or something like that).

In this case, "ex" is not meant to negate "patriot".  It doesn't mean the person is no longer patriotic.  It is meant as no longer being in the country of their patriotism.
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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #73 on: December 14, 2012, 09:02:56 PM »
"coastal resident" is a different way of saying someone who lives by the sea.  I don't think there is a specific term that directly applies to it though.
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #74 on: December 14, 2012, 09:11:50 PM »
Patriot can be meant either way, but typically positive.  Interpretation of what you mean is usually based on the context.  MOST of the time, it is used as a positive term.

In this case, "ex" is not meant to negate "patriot".  It doesn't mean the person is no longer patriotic.  It is meant as no longer being in the country of their patriotism.

Oh thank you for explaining!! :) Then I guess it would be ok :)
This text that I need to translate is really difficult! I'm trying to translate the first sentence and it sounds just horrible and all wrong and awkward  :-\ I have no idea how I'm ever going to do this... specially not till tomorrow!!!  :-\ I am VERY VERY grateful for any help!!!  :)
I will post my horrible translations very soon!  :-\  :)

"coastal resident" is a different way of saying someone who lives by the sea.  I don't think there is a specific term that directly applies to it though.
Oh... but in my country there are like regions or different parts of the country... I found this in Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_Littoral
Does Slovenian Littoral sound right? and how would you call people who live in Slovenian Littoral?  :-\ And could you just say Littoral? is that even a real word?

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #75 on: December 14, 2012, 09:16:30 PM »
Oh... but in my country there are like regions or different parts of the country... I found this in Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_Littoral
Does Slovenian Littoral sound right? and how would you call people who live in Slovenian Littoral?  :-\ And could you just say Littoral? is that even a real word?

Are you trying to describe a specific area that is different from the rest of the country?  From what I understand, that region is the only one that connects to the sea.  Is it that you are trying to distinguish this from the "land-locked" regions?

EDIT: From what I understand, the Littoral zone is equivalent to a "tidal area", or the area between the low tide waterline and the high tide waterline

EDIT #2: Maybe you mean residents in areas that are exposed to flooding during storms?  This is the "storm surge area".
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #76 on: December 14, 2012, 09:28:16 PM »
Are you trying to describe a specific area that is different from the rest of the country?  From what I understand, that region is the only one that connects to the sea.  Is it that you are trying to distinguish this from the "land-locked" regions?

Well yes I think so. That region is the only one that connects to the sea... I just need to find an English word for that region.
I'm really not sure... I mean I thought what if maybe I just leave it in my language since it's the name of the region but... I just don't know.  :-\

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #77 on: December 14, 2012, 09:34:58 PM »
I would also like to know is there another word for "farmer"? like someone who lives in the coutry? How would you say someone was a son of parents who were farmers? Farmer parents? country parents?
and also what would be another word for "educated", if it shouldn't mean so much that someone has lots of schools but that he knows a lot in general.

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #78 on: December 14, 2012, 09:44:55 PM »
Cities with exposure to the sea are generally called "ports".  But I don't think there is a specific name for people that live in those cities.  A port city can be part of a region that extends inland to an area with no exposure to the sea.  So if you are referring to this entire area, it's best to use your native tongue.  For example:

In the USA, the state of New York has New York City as a port city, but even people that live in the mountains of New York state are still "New Yorkers".

In regards to farming, you could say "born to farmers" if you are trying to say that the parents are farmers but the son doesn't farm.

With education, you could say they are "intelligent", which can describe what they know without caring about the years spent in school.  There are also words that can describe this and are much more specific.  If you are referring to someone who knows a lot about other countries and cultures, you could say they are "worldly".  If there is a specific case you are trying to use this for, there may be more accurate words.
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #79 on: December 14, 2012, 09:57:15 PM »
Thanks again for helping me!! I know this is really difficult. So you think it would be better to just use Slovenian words? Or is this Slovenian Littoral ok?
Ok I will now post the first two sentences that I kind of translated... I know it's a really bad translation (maybe google translate would be better  :P ) but maybe it could help to know what this text is about...  :-\ So this is my first try: :P

As a son of Slovenian Littoral farmer (country?) parents (or just farmers?), Alfonz Čuk (1912, Bilje–1975 Pensilvanija, USA) had become a very educated patriotic intellectual. He lived in the time when people of Slovenian Littoral (region) were suffering under Italian Fascist rule. ???


Any help?

Hmmm maybe worldly would be a good word...  :-\ instead of educated... or what about knowledgeable?

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #80 on: December 14, 2012, 10:38:00 PM »
I might put it this way.  I'm not sure if it will be specific enough though.

A son of Slovenian farmers, Alfonz Čuk (1912, Bilje–1975 Pennsylvania, USA) was a very patriotic intellectual. He lived in the Slovenian Littoral region during a time in which it was suffering under Italian Fascist rule.

Here are my reasons for changing:

As a son of Slovenian Littoral farmer parents, Alfonz Čuk (1912, Bilje–1975 Pensilvanija, USA) had become a very educated patriotic intellectual.

"As a son of" implies that the second part of the sentence "educated patriot intellectual" is BECAUSE his parents were farmers.  I assume he was not knowledgeable because his parents were farmers, but because he spent time learning.  Using both educated and intellectual, even though they can mean separate things, seems repetitive in the context. You could also replace my wording with "knowledgeable patriot"

He lived in the time when people of Slovenian Littoral (region) were suffering under Italian Fascist rule.

I changed "the time when" to "a time in which" for a strange reason.  for no specific English rule that I can think of, it just sounds better when reading through it*.  It's a weird change to explain since the English language can be dumb at times.  changing to "was" instead of "were" is because "the region" is singular.  You would use "were" if you said "the people of the region" since "the people" is plural.


*This is a strange change so I'll try to expand on it.  Using "the time when" implies that there was only a specific time that it happened, and assumes the reader already knows how long this time period was.  Using "a time in which" is more general and less assumptive of the reader's knowledge on the subject.
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #81 on: December 14, 2012, 11:47:19 PM »
Wow thanks so much for taking the time to help me!!!!   :)
Well you're right that does sound like he become educated intelectual because his parents were farmers, but I tried translating it as much as possible exactly the way it is in Slovenian. Do you think I should still cange it? and it's the same with educated patriotic intellectual... well... maybe I'll just ask the person who wrote it how she meant it.

Do you think it could be : A son of Slovenian farmers who lived in the Slovenian Littoral region, Alfonz Čuk.... (also is it ok if I use Č in English? or should it be just C?).  Oh does it have to be : was a very patriotic...? it can't be : become (or had become) a very patriotic...?

You're right about "a time in which", it does sound much better!  :) Thank you very much!!!

I kinda translated the rest of the sentences (there's only about 7 more)  :P i know I'm asking a lot I know people have other things to do, but just in case someone could look through the rest of the sentences in the next 11 hours that would help me sooooo much!!! So this is the whole text (without the first two sentences):

After the World War 2 he was forced to move to (immigrate to) the USA where he had lived and worked until his death. Čuk had begun writing diary notes in his high school (gymnasium) years (in the year of 1929) and kept writing until his death (in the year of 1975). His was writing his diary notes in Slovenian language in some places in Russian and we can also find some words and sentences in Latin and in English. These diary notes through personal narrative of an educated immigrant reveal (are revealing?)  a very complicated political and intellectual (?development) in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War 2. Čuk’s chosen (?) essays are (were) published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants Meddobje which is being published since 1954 in Argentina.  The field of literary criticism examens (deals with) Čuk’s literary analysis of Vinko Brumen’s collected essays (1909, Šalovci pri Središču ob Dravi−1993, Buenos Aires) Iskanja (Buenos Aires, 1967) in which Brumen deals with important questions of Slovenian migrant workers (?). The work of Alfonz Čuk – diary notes in twelve notebooks, essays and literary criticism – still hasn’t received a scientific review and that is why this is a new, interesting contribution for the Slovenian literary field (science).

The things that I wrote in the brackets are like my second guesses or something like that  :P and I was especially confused about the sentence that's one before the last one (The field of...) the really looooong one... I didn't even completely understand it in my language  ::)

So well if anyone has any time to help me in the next 10 to 11 hours that would be really great! And I am so very thankful for all the help until now!!!  :)  :)  8)

Offline Bob

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #82 on: December 15, 2012, 01:20:30 AM »
A son of Slovenian Littoral farmers, Alfonz Čuk (1912, Bilje–1975 Pensilvanija, USA) become an educated, patriotic intellectual. He lived in a time when people of Slovenian Littoral were suffering under Italian Fascist rule.

I don't know what this means exactly...
(1912, Bilje–1975 Pensilvanija, USA)
If it's birth and death dates -- And I'm not an expert -- but I would expect just (1912-1975).  I haven't seen a place of birth or death included when it's written like that.

So maybe...
A son of Slovenian Littoral farmers, Alfonz Čuk (1912–1975) become an educated, patriotic intellectual. He lived in a time when people of Slovenian Littoral were suffering under Italian Fascist rule.

Not that it's a big deal.  I guess it is birth/death place and date.  It's just hard to read.  The articles I'm remembering usually have details written out somewhere else.



Changes..
Take out 'as.'  It's not needed.  And it sounds weird.
Comma between educated and patriotic.
Take out very.  Educated.... Yes, he's already 'very' educated.  It just sounds weird.  After that he's an intellectual, so... "very" educated again that way.  Maybe even just take out educated.  There aren't dumb, uneducated intellectuals.    He became a patriotic intellectual.   Education is implied.
Take out 'had' to make it more active.  Unless there's something else coming up after this and then this guy 'had' become x before doing y.



I don't see a problem with the next sentence.  'In which' sounds too wordy to me.    'When' goes along with time.  I don't hear anything strange.   Maybe... 'the' people of Slovenian LIttoral if you want to make it about 'the' people of that region.  Without 'the' it's just whatever people happen to be living there. 



I'd aim for keeping the exact meaning and not tranlasting literally.  You might capture wierd grammatical differences.


I'd keep the squiggle on the C.  That's his name.




After the World War 2 he was forced to move to (immigrate to) the USA where he had lived and worked until his death.
Ok either way with immigrate.  I don't know if you can be forced to immigrate.  You can be exiled though.  "He was exiled?"


Čuk began writing diary notes in his high school years (1929) and kept writing until his death.
= began, more active
- You mean high school for sure.  That's grades 9-12 in the US.  After that people go off to college for four years usually.
- You already said when he dies.  You could take it out earlier and then include the date here.... "until his death in 1975."
Somehow pick something about high school or 1929.  How it's written now is weird.  Maybe... "In 1929, while in high school, Cuk began..."


He wrote in Slovenian in some places, in Russian in others, and one can also find some words and sentences in Latin and English.
- We already know he's writing in a diary.
- If that's right with what languages he was writing in.


These diary notes through personal narrative of an educated immigrant reveal (are revealing?)  a very complicated political and intellectual (?development) in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War 2.
Bob's version:
These personal narratives reveal complicated political and intellectual development in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War 2.


Čuk’s chosen (?) essays are (were) published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants Meddobje which is being published since 1954 in Argentina.  The field of literary criticism examens (deals with) Čuk’s literary analysis of Vinko Brumen’s collected essays (1909, Šalovci pri Središču ob Dravi−1993, Buenos Aires) Iskanja (Buenos Aires, 1967) in which Brumen deals with important questions of Slovenian migrant workers (?).
Bob's version:
- I'm not sure what the grammatically correct what to represent a journal name is -- underlining or italicizing.
- Did Cuk chose his essays or did someone else?  Either way this will work...
Čuk’s selected essays...  or Selected essays by Čuk....  were published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants, Meddobje (published since 1954 in Argentina). 
- Maybe parantheses to show the journal publication dates?  Otherwise it might be confused that the essays were published since 1954?





The work of Alfonz Čuk – diary notes in twelve notebooks, essays and literary criticism – still hasn’t received a scientific review and that is why this is a new, interesting contribution for the Slovenian literary field (science).
Bob's version:
The work of Alfonz Čuk -- diary notes in twleve notebooks, essays, and literary criticism -- still have not received a scientific review.  Hence this new contribution to the Slovenian literary field.
- Maybe that.  Of course it's interesting if they wrote it.  Might not even need "new"...  "Hence this contribution..."



You can use II instead of 2 for World War 2.  Either way is ok, as far as I know.  World War 2 or World War II.


So this...?

   After the World War II he was forced to move to the USA where he had lived and worked until his death. In 1929, while in high school, Čuk began writing diary notes and kept writing until his death. He wrote in Slovenian in some places, in Russian in others, and one can also find some words and sentences in Latin and English.  These personal narratives reveal complicated political and intellectual development in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War II. Selected essays by Čuk were published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants, Meddobje (published since 1954 in Argentina). 

It could still be honed down a little more.  It's not quite formal enough yet.  This looks like high school or college writing.  Not at the level or a journal or encyclopedia yet.


Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #83 on: December 15, 2012, 08:04:13 AM »
A son of Slovenian Littoral farmers, Alfonz Čuk (1912, Bilje–1975 Pensilvanija, USA) become an educated, patriotic intellectual. He lived in a time when people of Slovenian Littoral were suffering under Italian Fascist rule.

I don't know what this means exactly...
(1912, Bilje–1975 Pensilvanija, USA)
If it's birth and death dates -- And I'm not an expert -- but I would expect just (1912-1975).  I haven't seen a place of birth or death included when it's written like that.

So maybe...
A son of Slovenian Littoral farmers, Alfonz Čuk (1912–1975) become an educated, patriotic intellectual. He lived in a time when people of Slovenian Littoral were suffering under Italian Fascist rule.

Not that it's a big deal.  I guess it is birth/death place and date.  It's just hard to read.  The articles I'm remembering usually have details written out somewhere else.



Changes..
Take out 'as.'  It's not needed.  And it sounds weird.
Comma between educated and patriotic.
Take out very.  Educated.... Yes, he's already 'very' educated.  It just sounds weird.  After that he's an intellectual, so... "very" educated again that way.  Maybe even just take out educated.  There aren't dumb, uneducated intellectuals.    He became a patriotic intellectual.   Education is implied.
Take out 'had' to make it more active.  Unless there's something else coming up after this and then this guy 'had' become x before doing y.



I don't see a problem with the next sentence.  'In which' sounds too wordy to me.    'When' goes along with time.  I don't hear anything strange.   Maybe... 'the' people of Slovenian LIttoral if you want to make it about 'the' people of that region.  Without 'the' it's just whatever people happen to be living there. 



I'd aim for keeping the exact meaning and not tranlasting literally.  You might capture wierd grammatical differences.


I'd keep the squiggle on the C.  That's his name.




After the World War 2 he was forced to move to (immigrate to) the USA where he had lived and worked until his death.
Ok either way with immigrate.  I don't know if you can be forced to immigrate.  You can be exiled though.  "He was exiled?"


Čuk began writing diary notes in his high school years (1929) and kept writing until his death.
= began, more active
- You mean high school for sure.  That's grades 9-12 in the US.  After that people go off to college for four years usually.
- You already said when he dies.  You could take it out earlier and then include the date here.... "until his death in 1975."
Somehow pick something about high school or 1929.  How it's written now is weird.  Maybe... "In 1929, while in high school, Cuk began..."


He wrote in Slovenian in some places, in Russian in others, and one can also find some words and sentences in Latin and English.
- We already know he's writing in a diary.
- If that's right with what languages he was writing in.


These diary notes through personal narrative of an educated immigrant reveal (are revealing?)  a very complicated political and intellectual (?development) in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War 2.
Bob's version:
These personal narratives reveal complicated political and intellectual development in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War 2.


Čuk’s chosen (?) essays are (were) published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants Meddobje which is being published since 1954 in Argentina.  The field of literary criticism examens (deals with) Čuk’s literary analysis of Vinko Brumen’s collected essays (1909, Šalovci pri Središču ob Dravi−1993, Buenos Aires) Iskanja (Buenos Aires, 1967) in which Brumen deals with important questions of Slovenian migrant workers (?).
Bob's version:
- I'm not sure what the grammatically correct what to represent a journal name is -- underlining or italicizing.
- Did Cuk chose his essays or did someone else?  Either way this will work...
Čuk’s selected essays...  or Selected essays by Čuk....  were published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants, Meddobje (published since 1954 in Argentina). 
- Maybe parantheses to show the journal publication dates?  Otherwise it might be confused that the essays were published since 1954?





The work of Alfonz Čuk – diary notes in twelve notebooks, essays and literary criticism – still hasn’t received a scientific review and that is why this is a new, interesting contribution for the Slovenian literary field (science).
Bob's version:
The work of Alfonz Čuk -- diary notes in twleve notebooks, essays, and literary criticism -- still have not received a scientific review.  Hence this new contribution to the Slovenian literary field.
- Maybe that.  Of course it's interesting if they wrote it.  Might not even need "new"...  "Hence this contribution..."



You can use II instead of 2 for World War 2.  Either way is ok, as far as I know.  World War 2 or World War II.


So this...?

   After the World War II he was forced to move to the USA where he had lived and worked until his death. In 1929, while in high school, Čuk began writing diary notes and kept writing until his death. He wrote in Slovenian in some places, in Russian in others, and one can also find some words and sentences in Latin and English.  These personal narratives reveal complicated political and intellectual development in the Slovenian Littoral region after World War II. Selected essays by Čuk were published in the main journal of Slovenian immigrants, Meddobje (published since 1954 in Argentina). 

It could still be honed down a little more.  It's not quite formal enough yet.  This looks like high school or college writing.  Not at the level or a journal or encyclopedia yet.




Thank you Bob!! :)

Yes that means a date and place of birth and death.

Yes I thought about writing it like World War II too. What about Second Wolrd War? Do you say it like that in English? cause that's how we say it.

Hmm no I don't think he was exiled. I think it's just that the way it was at that time it made it too difficult for him to live there... At least I think so.

Yes it's high school, well in my language it says gymnasium, which is that same, just a different kind of a high school.

What about the sentence : The field of literary criticism examens (deals with) Čuk’s literary analysis of Vinko Brumen’s collected essays (1909, Šalovci pri Središču ob Dravi−1993, Buenos Aires) Iskanja (Buenos Aires, 1967) in which Brumen deals with important questions of Slovenian migrant workers (?).
Does it make any sense at all?  :-\

So you say : have not? The work of Alfonz Čuk -- diary notes in twleve notebooks, essays, and literary criticism -- still have not received a scientific review.  Hence this new contribution to the Slovenian literary field.
So it's not about the "work" but about the "diary notes... " ?

Oh it's not for a journal or encyclopedia. It's for a final thesis for a university, I think. So I hope that's ok! :)

Well thank you again everyone for helping me!!!  :)

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #84 on: December 15, 2012, 03:50:47 PM »
Yes I thought about writing it like World War II too. What about Second Wolrd War? Do you say it like that in English? cause that's how we say it.

The Second World War is also fine.  As an opinion, I find that stating it this way tends to fit more of a storytelling viewpoint while World War 2 fits more in research articles.  This is purely an opinion though, nothing to do with rules of language.

Yes it's high school, well in my language it says gymnasium, which is that same, just a different kind of a high school.

In English, gymnasium means the exercise building of a high school (at least in the US, I can't speak for other English speaking countries).

What about the sentence : The field of literary criticism examens (deals with) Čuk’s literary analysis of Vinko Brumen’s collected essays (1909, Šalovci pri Središču ob Dravi−1993, Buenos Aires) Iskanja (Buenos Aires, 1967) in which Brumen deals with important questions of Slovenian migrant workers (?).
Does it make any sense at all?  :-\

I'm not sure I understand what the intention of the sentence is.  I don't want to advise you to write it one way when you actually mean something different.

So you say : have not? The work of Alfonz Čuk -- diary notes in twleve notebooks, essays, and literary criticism -- still have not received a scientific review.  Hence this new contribution to the Slovenian literary field.
So it's not about the "work" but about the "diary notes... " ?

It should actually be "The works of", and have would be correct when referring to 'works'.
 
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Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #85 on: December 15, 2012, 04:08:08 PM »
My recollection is that after the WW II all of those regions that Italy occupied were left on their own. Italy had an election to choose between the "royal party" to go back to the king and the democratic party. As you all know they chose the later.

I don't recall Italy continuing to rule anything outside their present borders.



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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #86 on: December 15, 2012, 04:24:21 PM »
My recollection is that after the WW II all of those regions that Italy occupied were left on their own. Italy had an election to choose between the "royal party" to go back to the king and the democratic party. As you all know they chose the later.

I don't recall Italy continuing to rule anything outside their present borders.

Italy annexed the region after WWI.  I assume this paper is referring to the time between WWI and WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_minority_in_Italy_(1920-1947)
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #87 on: December 15, 2012, 05:20:52 PM »
The Second World War is also fine.  As an opinion, I find that stating it this way tends to fit more of a storytelling viewpoint while World War 2 fits more in research articles.  This is purely an opinion though, nothing to do with rules of language.

In English, gymnasium means the exercise building of a high school (at least in the US, I can't speak for other English speaking countries).

I'm not sure I understand what the intention of the sentence is.  I don't want to advise you to write it one way when you actually mean something different.

It should actually be "The works of", and have would be correct when referring to 'works'.
 

Thanks again for answering! :) Yes I guess the problem with that sentence is that I don't even completely understand it in Slovenian! Oh well...
Oh The works of, ok thanks! :)

Thanks again everyone for commenting and helping!!  :)  8)
Oh I'm not sure about that Italy thing but yes probably he lived there before World War 2 cause he was born in 1912 and had to move to the USA after it.

Offline zzivauri

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #88 on: December 16, 2012, 04:44:29 AM »
  Hm! ;) :D  I think we should all chip in for littletune to get her a wee piano like she needs.  Any takers?

Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #89 on: December 16, 2012, 04:15:27 PM »
Italy annexed the region after WWI.  I assume this paper is referring to the time between WWI and WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_minority_in_Italy_(1920-1947)

This discussion caused me to look into this matter further. This region was taken from Austria as a penalty for their participation in in WW1 and given to Italy. Those Slovenians were caught in the middle. In the beginning the King probably treated them OK but as the King lost the confidence of the people and Mussolini's thugs created more and more chaos, minorities living on Italian soil were targeted as freeloaders. This scenario has been repeated over and over since the Exodus. Just change the name of the targets.
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #90 on: December 16, 2012, 09:02:06 PM »
  Hm! ;) :D  I think we should all chip in for littletune to get her a wee piano like she needs.  Any takers?
Thanks! Why do I need a wee piano? But sure people just go ahead and donate money for me!  :P That would be great!  :P

Thanks again everyone for reading my posts and commenting and helping me!!!  8)

Offline Bob

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #91 on: December 17, 2012, 12:04:03 AM »
I'll take a grand piano if anyone has a decent one to spare.


... as long as frequent tunings, moving, sound-proofing, landlord leasing is included too.
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Offline littletune

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #92 on: December 19, 2012, 08:56:25 PM »
I'll take a grand piano if anyone has a decent one to spare.


... as long as frequent tunings, moving, sound-proofing, landlord leasing is included too.
Yes I was thinking I would want a grand piano too, but our apartment is not big enough for a grand piano so... someone would have to donate a larger apartment as well!hmm that would be really great, thank you!  :P

Offline oxy60

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Re: Littletune learns some complicated English with whoever wants to help
«Reply #93 on: December 20, 2012, 01:47:02 AM »
I have the next best thing, a keyboard that has sampled a Bose...
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)