Medtner Piano Concerto no. 3

[furtwaengler]

The main reason I'm posting this is a call for help on effectively cleaning up this recording which means a great deal to me. Tuesday I listened to it for the first time...finally enough time has past.

I played this with a community orchestra October 22, 2009, and there is a lot that's amazing just because it took place. The concert itself was not recorded, but for my own help I recorded every rehearsal I was a part of with my voice recorder. There were only two times we pushed from beginning to end in a single stretch...the concert itself, and this dress rehearsal from the previous Monday, October 19, 2009. It was also that Monday that the Steinway D which was donated for this concert arrived in the space, which is not a concert hall, or really adequate for concerts, the recently built business building. Also this was recorded at a considerable distance from the orchestra by reason of activity and blending of instruments - being a community orchestra, there is a wide variation in skill, and it has always seemed the further back you go, the more the less talented strings are blended with the more talented strings. This was a very difficult score, and I'd like to emphasize that in spite of the apparent flaws, or a few sour moments, this group and their conductor truly went the extra mile in preparing for this, and I am beyond grateful for their dedicated work. There were only two moments where we got badly separated, one which you'll hear, another which I patched (trumpets bombastically entering several measures early). With a score this complex this utterly blows me away how successful we were, not just making it through, but communicating Medtner's masterpiece. I could write a lot more, but really I cannot write a thing more. This is a document of one of the great high points in my life thus far, with a piece, the Medtner 3rd Concerto, that I absolutely love. I am really and truly a nobody...just a guy that loves music. It's unbelievable I'd find myself in this position!

It is a noisy recording. If someone (Lostinidlewonder? ) could help adequately clean it up, I'd be so thankful.

All the best,

Dave

[scottmcc]

most audio editing programs will have static-reduction filters, but unfortunately, most of those filters also remove not just noise, but also signal, meaning your recording will lose some of its essence.  it's unfortunate, because I tried listening to this and really couldn't, there was just too much noise.  the bits that I could hear were really captivating--medtner's concertos are true gems in my mind, and I'm amazed that you were able to tackle such difficult repertoire, especially with a community orchestra.

if you have a LOT of time on your hands you can look at the soundtrack on a frequency spectrum view, find out what frequencies the noise tends to occur on, and then apply a band pass filter to knock out those frequencies, but you'll have to use a slightly different filter every few milliseconds so as not to inadvertently lose the sound of the music.  I tried this once on a video I was working on that was filmed on an airplane, and I gave up 5 seconds into the work.  but it is possible. 

good audio engineers have lots of tools for cleaning up recordings, but the best tool is a good recording to start with unfortunately, and really, a lot of what they have are better algorithms for picking out which frequencies to knock out and when (ie start with silent periods and knock them all the way down to nothing, then reduce similar frequencies during the notes).

hopefully this made some sense.

[rachfan]

Hi Dave,

Wow!  You were too generous to me in your kind comments on the Medtner sonata I posted awhile back.  That was a tiny undertaking compared to this huge feat you performed with the Third Piano Concerto.  Every time I've listened to these concertos of Medtner, I've always been greatly impressed by them.  I think you gave a wonderful and beautiful performance in this dress rehearsal.  I greatly admire your pianistic prowess and artistry in being able to play this large work so convincingly.  These works are not played as often as they should be.  My hat is off to you!

David

[lostinidlewonder]

Wow to get an opportunity to play this is a rare honor! Cleaning a recording with multiple instruments is terribly difficult but I tried, some of the lower register sounds where not adequately captured on the recorder thus in this cleaning they sometimes sound a little garbled. Amazing piano playing.

[furtwaengler]

Wow to get an opportunity to play this is a rare honor! Cleaning a recording with multiple instruments is terribly difficult but I tried, some of the lower register sounds where not adequately captured on the recorder thus in this cleaning they sometimes sound a little garbled. Amazing piano playing.

Yes, it is an amazing honor, and I'll have to go in more detail about how it came about later. In the mean time, I want to thank you for taking the time to work on this recording. You've improved several of my recordings, and though I know I should not take unfair advantage of your generosity, I do have much more trust in your ears and equipment. It takes a lot of noise for me to even be conscious of noise, which is not a bad thing for my listening situation, but can be very bad if I want to share something I enjoy with different ears. I know this recording started with the odds stacked against it, but you've still been able to make an improvement.

I've been experimenting with a few things on Audacity, but I'm really not sure what I'm doing, and there may be something there others notice that I don't.

Thanks so much for this!

Dave

[quantum]

Tried to balance out removing more noise vs. creating digital artifacts in the music.  Some hiss is left in, but I was aiming for an amount that would not be distracting once the music got going.  Still most noticeable is the distortion in the loud parts.  Need to play around with the filters more to see if something can be done about that. 

Now to sit back an listen... 

[furtwaengler]

Thanks Quantum! It's amazing what can be done with sound and what can be uncovered. I need to learn some more about this myself. I've done some things to this myself, and I may upload another.

I like hearing the conductor's voice at various spots, "Good!" Or "NO!" He had never even heard of Medtner when I brought it to him. And here he went the extra mile learning it for me.

****

I have listened to the full concerto, and I'm very impressed with your work on this, Quantum. Only problem is it uncovered a few more mistakes I did not know were there. Ha!

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes, it is an amazing honor, and I'll have to go in more detail about how it came about later. In the mean time, I want to thank you for taking the time to work on this recording. You've improved several of my recordings, and though I know I should not take unfair advantage of your generosity, I do have much more trust in your ears and equipment. It takes a lot of noise for me to even be conscious of noise, which is not a bad thing for my listening situation, but can be very bad if I want to share something I enjoy with different ears. I know nthis recording started with the odds stacked against it, but you've still been able to make an improvement.

I've been experimenting with a few things on Audacity, but I'm really not sure what I'm doing, and there may be something there others notice that I don't.

Thanks so much for this!

Dave

You're welcome Dave, it doesn't take that much time to edit recordings, but to do a proper job you can pretty much sit and edit it all day there is always something you can tweak and change. I thought the recording could be a lot louder so I quickly increased the volume as far as it could go without distorting too much, some parts are more easy to hear now. It is great to see quantum and rachfan clean the recording as well, with the tools these days its becoming more and more accessible to do these kind of things!

[rachfan]

I sympathize with you Dave on trying to make sense of the multiple features and effects available in these home audio editing programs like Audacity.  I do all my recordings in complete takes just to avoid that hassle!  A few times I had to amplify the volume, but even dispensed with that issue by simply increasing the input volume on the recorder.  The problem with the proprietary audio editors is that there is never a user manual and the "Help" function is usually of no real help if it exists at all. The sellers assume that everyone is a recording engineer and fully knows all of the tech jargon indicating the various effects available in their programs.  To me they're mostly Greek!  The basic problem, I believe, is that today all this tech stuff is supposed to be intuitive.  Problem is that not all of us are intuitive. I myself solve problems by logic and deductive reasoning.  And what little intuitive sense I have, might not be the same as the intuition of the person who designed the sound editor. And then there is the matter of how far to go with the editor.  The more bells and whistles employed, the more degraded the recording becomes.  Lostinidlewonder and quantum did a fine jobs with this, knowing what to use, and judiciously just how much of it to use.  It's probably more art than science.  

David  

[furtwaengler]

It was really not my intent to abandon my thread here. It's been a while since I've been able to get on. I do want to thank you all for your selfless work on this recording. I realized it was a disadvantage not working from the original file, but even so you all were able to bring this to a point I could enjoy it myself and share it with a few friends.

Thanks very much!

Dave

[andhow04]

this is great... thsi is really great... i have never looked at the score for medtner's concertos, how woul dyou compare the difficulty with the tales and sonatas>

orchestra part doesn;t sound that hard, but to get a communtiy orchestra to learn something they havent already played/heard a thousand times is a big accomplishment..

im impressed! congratulations!

[furtwaengler]

this is great... thsi is really great... i have never looked at the score for medtner's concertos, how woul dyou compare the difficulty with the tales and sonatas>

orchestra part doesn;t sound that hard, but to get a communtiy orchestra to learn something they havent already played/heard a thousand times is a big accomplishment..

im impressed! congratulations!

All three concertos are to me very pianistic. They are not without challenges, and indeed there were some passages in the third which took a bit of patience, but overall I think the sonatas are much bigger and more difficult. The orchestra's part, especially for an ensemble like this was actually quite difficult because the scores were not typeset, but facsimile, and there are tons of key changes and meter changes which took up to the day of the concert to get in some order. This was also an expensive endeavor, the rental itself costing $700. I was supremely lucky in this. The conductor had given me the opportunity to play Liszt's Totentanz the the year before, and I had to turn it down due to a conflict within the department - I'd have been turning down over $1,000 income in order to play the Totentanz! That next summer he offered that I play the concerto of my choice the next season, and he was faithful in that, paying the price of the Medtner and going the extra mile in preparation. This was wonderful and also such a favorable introduction to Medtner that many associated with the orchestra have suggested we play the other 2 concertos in the future! I don't know if this will ever happen, but I do have the memory of the 3rd as one of the great experiences of my life.

[andhow04]

All three concertos are to me very pianistic. They are not without challenges, and indeed there were some passages in the third which took a bit of patience, but overall I think the sonatas are much bigger and more difficult. The orchestra's part, especially for an ensemble like this was actually quite difficult because the scores were not typeset, but facsimile, and there are tons of key changes and meter changes which took up to the day of the concert to get in some order. This was also an expensive endeavor, the rental itself costing $700. I was supremely lucky in this. The conductor had given me the opportunity to play Liszt's Totentanz the the year before, and I had to turn it down due to a conflict within the department - I'd have been turning down over $1,000 income in order to play the Totentanz! That next summer he offered that I play the concerto of my choice the next season, and he was faithful in that, paying the price of the Medtner and going the extra mile in preparation. This was wonderful and also such a favorable introduction to Medtner that many associated with the orchestra have suggested we play the other 2 concertos in the future! I don't know if this will ever happen, but I do have the memory of the 3rd as one of the great experiences of my life.

interesting, it is lucky to have found someone who was willing to put in that kind of effort.  what do you mean confclit within a department? are you a piano professor?  we must have similar repertoire, i played the totentanz myself not too long ago.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The sound quality is questionable at best! But you can hear enough to appreciate what a good job you've done and what an event this must have been. Congratulations on getting an orchestra to play a piece like this.