Comments and opinions requested please

[silverwoodpianos]

New person to the Vancouver area looking for a used piano and is not familiar with any piano-related people working in the industry in this area…… admits he does not know what to look for when shopping for used instruments.

I have offered to post this query on the  forum so that he might read opinions and comments from others outside of the Vancouver area.

Status:

#1.Piano found in dealer store in the Vancouver area. This is a high-end instrument in its day which was the 1940’s.

#2. The piano has had light use over the years; all mechanical components are in original condition, including the cabinet finish.

#3. The ivory key tops have been replaced with plastic at some point previously.

#4.The sounding board has a thin crack line running the length of the board.

#5. The friction resistance of the tuning pins is down to 30lbs. in the bass and slightly more (45-55) in the treble.

Problem established:

Receiving mixed messages from a variety of local technicians that this is a good used instrument for regular use and will hold a tuning.

Agree or disagree? Your comments and opinions please………

There have been two local rebuilders/restorers that have cautioned against the condition of the pin block and the claim that this instrument will remain in tune.

Agree or disagree? Your comments and opinions please………..

-Does the torque rating on the tuning pins devalue the instrument?

Agree or disagree? comments and opinions please....

The dealer informs this person:

The instrument will be regulated with no new felts or parts, delivered, tuned. Warranty period not established at this point. Selling price not established yet.

I would ask that any Vancouver local technicians, dealers, or restorers, sit this one out, as the person has already heard from the local people. I have suggested this avenue for comment so that he might read information from people who do not have a vested interest in the instrument in any way.

[john90]

Problem established:

Receiving mixed messages from a variety of local technicians that this is a good used instrument for regular use and will hold a tuning.

I don't think it is suitable for regular use in its current state, with a dodgy soundboard and pinblock. Problems/ongoing costs of a first purchase like this could put you off playing for life. As someone who has maintained his own piano, I would walk away from this one. Personally I would rule it out as a restoration candidate too. Someone with a lot of skill might take it on. Some quality pianos of this age sold as "For restoration" can sometimes be given a new lease of life without rebuilding, but not this one, by the sounds.

This is the classic ruse. The dealer will rarely take the piano back however bad it gets, and the customer keeps calling out the tuner under warranty, the tuner is "busy" and gives 6 week lead times to avoid the problem until the warranty is out. An acquaintance bought a piano with a cracked frame under a scheme like this. The dealer sat it out, until a lawyer was involved, and then offered to swap it for "any other instrument in stock", which sounded reasonable until you saw the prices and quality.

[keys60]

Really hard to tell from behind a PC, but a hairline crack in a soundboard is not a big deal if it doesn't buzz. Soundboards are an important component, but not the tell all of the pianos condition. Depending on a pianos size, a soundboard is a few thousand square inches and the crack is just a few. If it is separating from the bridges, it will buzz and is coming loose. That is a problem, but a fully affixed soundboard with a proper crown will not diminish its sound enough to be detectable. Besides, if you are willing to spend a few more (well,,, more than a few) bucks, soundboards can be shimmed.

 Now to the tuning pin torque......30lbs. torque psi. is low. Very low. 70 lbs. is acceptable, 90 lbs. is nice, over 140 IMHO is pretty damned tight and rough on a tuners shoulders. However, tuning pins can be tapped into the pinblock a little further to add torque. No a lot of torque, just enough to possibly hold a tune. Its only going to wear out further from there. There are also various chemical solutions that can be applied to the base of the pin when the piano is tilted onto its back and can tighten the pins to an acceptable torque. Simply put, its called pin tightener sold at piano tech supply houses and most techs will have it available. There is also what is called C A glue which is similar to crazy glue and it works. Its a band aid, not a cure all.

Now...lets get to the "all original parts" and "great piano in its day" part.

I don't care if its a Steinway D, Bechstein, Mason Hamlin, etc. etc. The cream of the crop.
If these piano are 50-60 years old, they are good candidates for a rebuild.
I've seen some that are quite playable at that age, but being wood and felt and having been in an unknown environment with varying pollutants in the air and fluctuating temps and humdities, I am quite sure many of these parts have recently been glued back together just to make the piano appear sellable. New keytops are irrelevant. They are cosmetics that make the piano look newer.

Please note that all of these applications do cost money. A lot of money. Are you willing to purchase this piano and then start having to pay a technician to work on it? Or do you just want to purchase something usable right out of the dealership and have it be reliable for a while? I'm guessing the latter.
I'm also guessing that is what the technicians that are checking this piano are thinking also and are truthfully advising you against it. Even though I cannot see this piano from where I am sitting, I am inclined to take the word of these honest techs and not telling you to purchase it and then go for the kill later on with some pretty expensive work.

Paying more money after a major purchase is frustrating but not more so than getting this beast in your house and not immediately being happy with it. Then what? Selling it will be difficult and moving even more so.
If your not looking for a project piano that you MAY eventually be happy with, keep looking.
Many dealers are just looking to unload their junk.
Really, the choice is yours. I can't tell you how to spend your hard earned. If you love it, good luck.

ADDENDUM:

HEY!!! I really need to read more carefully. I didn't see that this was posted by Dan Silverwood nor did I read the whole thing carefully. I'm taking this is an actual scenario about someone that is just dying to buy this beautiful old beast? OK. I'll bite and reread more carefully. I thought that was posted by a potential customer.

I live in NY. I am a technician that has a lot to learn yet knows more than most piano owners and in many cases, musicians and dealers too. What I posted is not well known amongst non techs, but again, I only have a few years experience with a 2 1/2 year apprenticeship.
I have absolutely zero interest in this piano. Every solution I have posted I know to be true regardless of what you, a dealer and the uber professional above posted. I only know THAT because I was given some good advice on how to approach certain repairs and tuning techniques that worked out quite well for me.

All the best to all involved.

[silverwoodpianos]

John90 and Keys60,
All good comments; very helpful to the person who was looking for opinions from other sources.
Thanks for the responses.