Osama bin Laden killed

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

Sorry, I guess I was braindead too. What I meant was, if you have to choose something, as in a particular something, not a general something. Like "If you have to choose a, that's not freedom". If you have to choose good, that's not freedom. That's what I meant.


by culture, there's also a time factor. People of a thousand years ago had different morals than we do now. You're only looking at the really obvious things like murder, but morals go much beyond this, and there are many, many gray areas. Like Homosexuality, for example. Abortion. Etc.

I was just trying to say that I don't think true freedom is doing whatever you want, because in the end, you are not really free. In many situations, people are forced to do the wrong thing, even though they don't want to, and then they suffer the consequences of their actions. For example, being forced to kill someone or steal something.

I don't know if those are gray areas. More like issues that people have strong differing views on, which create ugly, ugly debates-- especially on the Internet. 
 But just because there are different views on it does not mean we should say they are all valid for the sake of respecting people's opinions.
 If something is morally right, or wrong, I don't think it changes just because a culture starts to accept/ reject it. Like I said, in the past, slavery was acceptable. Was it morally right then to treat other human beings as objects/ possessions?
 If I came from a cannibalistic culture and wanted to practise it here in Canada, a multicultural society, could I? If you refuse, could I say that you are being racist and inconsiderate of my culture and personal morals? Is terrorism ok if people were just brought up in that kind of culture? Maybe we can say it's not their fault ( children brought up to hate, conditioned by their parents/society... the westboro baptist church comes to mind  ), but you can't say that the terrorism/hate crimes themselves are right.
I'm not saying one culture is better than another. I see lots of issues with my own culture, as well as my own personal views on certain things.

[ongaku_oniko]

Let me ask this question then:

What makes something right, and what makes something wrong?

You just come here claiming that murder is wrong, but killing for self defense is not. I find that contradictory. You're pushing your views on other people. Is that morally correct? What's wrong with cannibalism? Is there any difference between eating a person and eating an animal?

thinkgreen, I think that we agree on over 90% of the matters. I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate here, to let you understand what other's think, and why morality is not so easily defined. I only wish that people all have a clear idea of morality, and that it was easily defined so that those people without morals cannot hide behind anything.

[Bob]

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden
Some video clips of Osama were released.

At least these terrorists don't seem to be all that savvy.  It's not like a Bond villan type of criminal.

I think if Pakistan had its act together or maybe if they were more honest this wouldn't have happened.

[fleetfingers]

Let me ask this question then:

What makes something right, and what makes something wrong?

You just come here claiming that murder is wrong, but killing for self defense is not. I find that contradictory. You're pushing your views on other people. Is that morally correct? What's wrong with cannibalism? Is there any difference between eating a person and eating an animal?

thinkgreen, I think that we agree on over 90% of the matters. I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate here, to let you understand what other's think, and why morality is not so easily defined. I only wish that people all have a clear idea of morality, and that it was easily defined so that those people without morals cannot hide behind anything.

This speaks to the point I was trying to make. The world cannot be one united order, because people have differing opinions on how society should be run. If someone wants to live in a community where cannibalism is acceptable, they should be allowed that priviledge. And I would like the same priviledge to live in a society where we decide how to live and what the laws will be, without someone on the outside telling us what to do. That's the kind of freedom I was referring to.

[ongaku_oniko]

Well, I also understand what you're saying, and to a certain extent, I agree.

I think forced communism like in the USSR and PRC is really bad.

But I don't know, we just had an election in Canada a few days ago. The Conservatives won a majority (of the seats in the house of commons, thus becoming the leading party, with their leader being the prime minister). But the media and everyone else keeps saying "The conservatives may have won, but at least 60% of Canadians dislike them", referring to the fact that they only got 40% of the popular vote.

Should those 60% of the people, who are actually a majority, conform to conservative rule? Or not? Are they not free, because Conservatives won?

I don't know.

BTW: how's your black keys comig along? I want to hear it

[oxy60]

Well, I also understand what you're saying, and to a certain extent, I agree.

I think forced communism like in the USSR and PRC is really bad.

But I don't know, we just had an election in Canada a few days ago. The Conservatives won a majority (of the seats in the house of commons, thus becoming the leading party, with their leader being the prime minister). But the media and everyone else keeps saying "The conservatives may have won, but at least 60% of Canadians dislike them", referring to the fact that they only got 40% of the popular vote.

Should those 60% of the people, who are actually a majority, conform to conservative rule? Or not? Are they not free, because Conservatives won?

If those 60% had been one party they would have won. Your system produces these kinds of results. Basically you need to have a runoff between the top two so you will end up with a majority winner. Right now all you have is a primary.

[caseyelston]

What does someone being black have to do with anything?

What does the president have to do with killing Osama! He sat in an office and watched it on a TV. Its like football fans saying "WE WON WE WON!" just because they watched a favorite team win the super bowl on TV!! I have nothing against our president but credit should go to the people who deserve it our military.

[Bob]

He's the one who ok'd it and set the policy for it.  Maybe more like someone instructing a coach what to do with the team.

[allthumbspiano]

What does the president have to do with killing Osama! He sat in an office and watched it on a TV. Its like football fans saying "WE WON WE WON!" just because they watched a favorite team win the super bowl on TV!! I have nothing against our president but credit should go to the people who deserve it our military.

The OP of that conversation said republicans are mad that a black man got ubl, I don't see why his race can get anyone mad.  That is all I was talking about.  Obama deserves credit, the military does, Bush does, CIA does, seals do, the list goes on and on.  Obama's race is not an issue at all, at least not for me and I'm about as far right as they get.

[fleetfingers]

BTW: how's your black keys comig along? I want to hear it

Thanks for asking! I played it last weekend at my recital and made soooo many mistakes! I can play it well at home but became self-concious on stage and slipped up a few times, rushed some parts, etc. I love to perform but mess up a lot because of nerves. Oh, well. I should do it more often; maybe I'll get better at it.

How about yours?

(I tried putting an mp3 of my performance on here, but I can't figure out how to do it...maybe I'll record a better one and put it on youtube... )

[Bob]

I thought someone might do this.

https://www.slate.com/id/2296922/

It would dispell any ideas that it was all faked.  And if it's someone else, then the U.S. government can stand back and say the U.S. did everything by the book.