Advice for someone who's completely lost their confidence.

[tacey]

So here's the story,
I started piano when I was 7, completed grade 8 when I was 18 or so - and then I just stopped playing for 2 years. I hadn't really been enjoying the piano lately... and didn't feel like playing. I had no one to motivate me and no pieces I wanted to learn... so I just stopped. I then decided to go to university (for lack of any other ideas of what to do with myself!) and took music.

Basically, I just can't play anymore. I'm nearing the end of my second year now... at the beginning I felt I was doing fine, I got some reasonable grades in my recitals... but now I seem to be just going continuously down hill! I find music hard to read, I can't seem to play quickly without hitting every wrong note, no matter how much I practice I just can't seem to remember things. I can't remember how to play a single piece from my previous recitals... even ones that were not so long ago. Even pieces that I had memorized, I can't play at all.

My piano lessons are extremely stressful, my teacher is nice... but she will just sit and make me play things that I cannot play. Saying things like "Why can't you just read the notes!".... the more pressure she puts on me the less and less I can play - I start to feel stupid and I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like she gives me pieces that are far too hard for me, then makes me feel stupid when I can't play them. It's making my confidence go down the drain.

It's got to the point where I can now barely sit down and practice - I just feel so utterly stressed by it all I can't take anything in. I have my final recital for the year coming up, and I have no idea how I'm going to pass it. It's like the more I practice, the worse I get!

What I would like to do, is go backwards a little and start learning much easier pieces - and work my way back to the standard I was at. But that's not really an option while I'm at university...

Sorry for the long moany post. =(

[quantum]

Are you talking about private lessons?  or are you a Music Major?

[tacey]

Are you talking about private lessons?  or are you a Music Major?

Not sure what you mean by a Music Major? I have private lessons at University.

[piano_channeller]

Hello, sorry to hear that you are having such problems.

What I would like to do, is go backwards a little and start learning much easier pieces - and work my way back to the standard I was at. But that's not really an option while I'm at university...

I think you've partly answered your own question here. I would say that you need to find a way to do what you would like to do. Would it be possible to defer for a year for example to sort some things out if you are really having problems?

I find music hard to read,

My piano lessons are extremely stressful, my teacher is nice... but she will just sit and make me play things that I cannot play. Saying things like "Why can't you just read the notes!"

There seems to be too much emphasis on sight-reading.  It's a very useful skill but for the purposes of a recital the ability to sight read is neither here nor there. One of the best pianists I knew at University couldn't sight read at all. 
(Or do you have to pass a sight-reading exam as part of your course?)

no matter how much I practice I just can't seem to remember things. I can't remember how to play a single piece from my previous recitals... even ones that were not so long ago. Even pieces that I had memorized, I can't play at all.

When I was studying I found that pieces I had memorized would drop out of my memory after a few months if I didn't keep playing them every couple of days, to begin with, and then weekly, especially if they were long. I think this is probably normal, we can't all have perfect musical memories. Most of the music I learned when I was studying only ever got performed once or twice so much of it has disappeared. Though I'm sure, if I had the time (which I don't! ), with a bit of revision I could get a lot of it back.

.... the more pressure she puts on me the less and less I can play - I start to feel stupid and I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like she gives me pieces that are far too hard for me, then makes me feel stupid when I can't play them. It's making my confidence go down the drain.

Now, far be it from me to question the methods of your teacher but.......?

It's got to the point where I can now barely sit down and practice - I just feel so utterly stressed by it all I can't take anything in. I have my final recital for the year coming up, and I have no idea how I'm going to pass it. It's like the more I practice, the worse I get!

This might be getting a bit personal but is there something else happening in your life that is causing you stress or is it just the piano? You don't have to answer that.

I'd be interested to know what music you are working on at the moment.

Also, how do you practise?

Sorry for the long moany post. =(

Not at all, that's what the internet is for. Hope in some small way that this helps.

[jgallag]

I find music hard to read, I can't seem to play quickly without hitting every wrong note

For starters, search for posts by bernhard. They contain many helpful practice methods (repeated note-groups, dropping notes...) that will help with this problem.

no matter how much I practice I just can't seem to remember things. I can't remember how to play a single piece from my previous recitals... even ones that were not so long ago. Even pieces that I had memorized, I can't play at all.

Also in bernhard's posts, this is supposed to happen. With the pieces you care about, you need to go back and relearn them after a few months' break. Then they will stick around. Trust me.

My piano lessons are extremely stressful, my teacher is nice... but she will just sit and make me play things that I cannot play. Saying things like "Why can't you just read the notes!".... the more pressure she puts on me the less and less I can play - I start to feel stupid and I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like she gives me pieces that are far too hard for me, then makes me feel stupid when I can't play them. It's making my confidence go down the drain.

You need a new teacher.

It's got to the point where I can now barely sit down and practice - I just feel so utterly stressed by it all I can't take anything in. I have my final recital for the year coming up, and I have no idea how I'm going to pass it. It's like the more I practice, the worse I get!

What I would like to do, is go backwards a little and start learning much easier pieces - and work my way back to the standard I was at. But that's not really an option while I'm at university...

Sorry for the long moany post. =(

As piano_channeller said, I believe this is what you must do. Just don't give up hope. You'll be able to do it, it just may take you a little more time than you think you have. Take the time. It'll be worth it.

[tacey]

Hello, sorry to hear that you are having such problems.I think you've partly answered your own question here. I would say that you need to find a way to do what you would like to do. Would it be possible to defer for a year for example to sort some things out if you are really having problems?There seems to be too much emphasis on sight-reading.  It's a very useful skill but for the purposes of a recital the ability to sight read is neither here nor there. One of the best pianists I knew at University couldn't sight read at all. 
(Or do you have to pass a sight-reading exam as part of your course?)When I was studying I found that pieces I had memorized would drop out of my memory after a few months if I didn't keep playing them every couple of days, to begin with, and then weekly, especially if they were long. I think this is probably normal, we can't all have perfect musical memories. Most of the music I learned when I was studying only ever got performed once or twice so much of it has disappeared. Though I'm sure, if I had the time (which I don't! ), with a bit of revision I could get a lot of it back. Now, far be it from me to question the methods of your teacher but.......?This might be getting a bit personal but is there something else happening in your life that is causing you stress or is it just the piano? You don't have to answer that.

I'd be interested to know what music you are working on at the moment.

Also, how do you practise?Not at all, that's what the internet is for. Hope in some small way that this helps.

Hi
Thank you very much for your responses, it's definitely helped in a few ways. I'm glad it's normal to not be able to remember music even if it's been memorized! I thought everyone else could just remember things they had learnt... but I guess we're all different.

I'l definitely look up the bernhard practice methods, anything to help me improve is worth a try! Thanks.

I don't really want to defer for a year, I kind of just want to get Uni out of the way. I'm going to ask if perhaps I can change my first study instrument to flute. I stopped playing flute for years as well, but have no problems with it all... I don't feel I've forgotten anything and I can learn pieces somewhat easier. If i'm not allowed to do this however, I think i'l definitely be asking to change piano teacher. I wouldn't say my teacher is a bad teacher, but I'm getting no where with her... she seems to have one method of teaching and I don't fit in with it.

I guess there is other things in my life causing the stress, I'm in a long distance relationship, I hate my part time job.... ect. But nothing overly terrible. It's mainly the piano... part of me wants to just give up, but that would be such a waste after all the years of practice and lessons...

The pieces I'm currently learning are:
Debussy's Pour le piano - This is the one i'm really struggling with... I just can't seem to get around the piano fast enough.

Brahms rhapsodie in g minor, this isn't going all that terribly, just making such slow progress to learn the notes.

and also the Bach partita no.V (praeambulum) - this piece is a little easier, I'm not too worried about this one... it's really under the fingers.

For my last recital I played  a Rachmaninoff prelude, op32 no12. I did love this piece, but it went terribly. I get awfully nervous in exams... and just hit every wrong note possible! I've also done quite a few Chopin nocturnes now.

I can learn these pieces, I can just never play them really smoothly or perfectly... there will be wrong notes everywhere and ugh. After my last recital I came out with a mark of 47%... which is just under a 2/2 (I'm really aiming for a 2/1 - 60%) ever since then I've just felt on a real low with it all, I put SO much practice into those pieces and it felt like a waste of time to just come out with a grade like that.

How do I practice... hmmmm. With my previous teacher, it was always taking it one hand at a time, learning each note, then putting it together. My new teacher... just expects me to play it. So I can't learn in my old way anymore... because I can't go into a lesson and just play to her the one hand I have learnt... she just wants me to play through it hands together straight off. Which makes my practice at home difficult, I can't learn this way easily. It feels like every time I play through the piece I'm playing it for the first time.... I'm not learning the notes I'm just sort of struggling through. Sometimes I feel it would be better to just not have the lessons!

[drkz4ck]

Well... I'd say one hand at a time practice is essential.
Putting the hands together at once works fine with easy pieces, but those which require some more complex and unusual finger/hand movementes might take A LOT of time - You might still be able to get it, starting very slowly.

Of course, I'm not a teacher, so I don't know a lot of stuff. I just wouldn't recommend putting the hands together at once like you say you're doing.

What I would do in your place is talk to my teacher. In case s/he was too stubborn and severe I would just look for a differente one. In the mena-time I'd just fool her practicing mostly one hand at a time at home - a little hands together until I got good at it. Before getting good, I'd just try to fool the teacher 

My advices might not be that good, so I don't mind if you just ignore them, hahahah! 

[keyboardclass]

Is it too late to switch to a single line instrument?  Your memory problems come across as pretty insurmountable.

[pianowolfi]

Is it too late to switch to a single line instrument?  Your memory problems come across as pretty insurmountable.

Very encouraging indeed!  

@tacey I think you might just want to shift one or two gears back and not always push yourself to the limits. The Bach Preambulum is already a great achievement, and you have the choice to play many many pieces around that level or below! I don't believe in a progress curve that always goes straight up without terraces, sideways and even some steps "backwards". Take it easy, you are on a good level and you might want to look not only forward to the most difficult pieces but backwards to what you already have achieved.

[keyboardclass]

The piano's not especially something to shout home about.  There's far more passion in wind/strings.  Or am I digging a hole here?

[pianowolfi]

Memory problems are never insurmountable, unless someone suffers from dementia.

[keyboardclass]

Memory problems are never insurmountable, unless someone suffers from dementia.

But effort inputted doesn't always yield a fair return.

[pianowolfi]

But effort inputted doesn't always yield a fair return.

No real effort is ever lost.

[keyboardclass]

No real effort is ever lost.

But what is real?

[pianowolfi]

But what is real?

Well of course there exist many philosophical concepts and debates on this subject. But for this purpose I think it might be sufficient enough to have a short look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or may be thought to be.[1] In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible. A still more broad definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist, not just in the mind, or even more broadly also including what is only in the mind.

[keyboardclass]

Pretty much a social construct in my book.

[oxy60]

This problem sounds too familiar to me. My college wanted a piano level that was so high there was no way I could get to it within four years. So I changed my emphasis within the major to conducting and was able to give a recital at the expected level. As a bonus I threw in an original orchestration of a piano piece. That put the recital over the top.

Your college years are destined to be a time of learning and growth. Some things/goals/desires/people will be tossed aside and new ones will be acquired.

Open yourself to the unlimited vista presented before you!

[floydcramerfan]

The last poster is correct about college.  It seems like in college, especially if you're a music major, they want you to go a lot faster than in high school.  I noticed that when I took piano in high school it was more for my enjoyment and it really didn't matter that it took me forever to learn a piece, but when I got to college he wanted me to be able to play a piece perfectly in a few weeks.  I better not go here because I'm still kind of bitter about it, but that's a normal experience.

[jgallag]

The piano's not especially something to shout home about.  There's far more passion in wind/strings.  Or am I digging a hole here?

You are digging a hole. Perhaps if you're not that fond of the piano you shouldn't be browsing the Piano Forum?


tacey, another thing that came to my mind is this: I'd bet you're trying to control way too much. If you're anything like me, the stress and fear make you try really hard to aim at each and every note, and, as my teacher is fond of saying, the more you try and control your playing, the less control you really have. This is because the muscular tension that results from controlling inhibits and affects the muscular movement needed to guide the fingers to the keys. It throws a huge wild card in there. What I did was this: I sat in the practice room and tried to play everything with as little control as possible. You need to work with your teacher (or another teacher, considering yours doesn't appear to be helping) to find out what this feels like. My teacher liked to show me how the hand naturally rebounds off the keybed and how we can use this energy to jump all over the keyboard. I also sought out a Feldenkrais practitioner and took a Feldenkrais class. These worked wonders, really. Alexander Technique might be a good idea for you as well. You may have noticed how for some pianists, playing the most difficult music looks easy. That's because it is easy for them, and your job in the practice room is to find the easiest (and most musical, don't forget music) way to play your pieces. In other words, if you practice the same passage for a while (let's say, two weeks, to give your hands time to adjust) and it still feels very hard, you're probably playing it the wrong way. Any difficulties at the piano should always be mental, not physical, which isn't to say that you don't come across physical difficulties, but they either become easy with practice, or you're not doing it correctly. Sometimes not doing it correctly comes from lack of experience or technical development, which is what teachers are for. Anyways, that was a little bit of rambling, on to my next thing to say.

College is rough. That's why I'm a Music Theory major, because I don't have the talent or even the time to be a Performance major. One, I have way too many interests outside of the music school to put in that kind of time, and two I could seriously end up hurting myself with the amount of repertoire required. One friend of mine, in addition to all of his solo repertoire, also has to play the Schubert Trout Quintet and a Brahms Cello Sonata next semester. Even myself, although it's because I'm preparing for grad auditions, have a lot of rep: the Bach P&F in F# Major from Book I, Beethoven's Sonata Op. 90, Brahms Two Rhapsodies Op. 79, Chopin Scherzo in Bb minor Op. 31, and Schumann Scenes from Childhood Op. 15. That's not including the Ginastera Suite de Danzas Criollas which, thank God, I've already learned. I also accompanied four vocalists to each of their lessons last semester, and these kids learn a lot of rep, and I accompanied the chorus as rehearsal pianist for a few numbers. You get your fair share of playing in college. Also, here's the rule for learning music with my teacher: you get one lesson under tempo and from the score, after that it must be up to speed and memorized. You also play a different thing each week, and with fourteen lessons it would be very nice to be able to get three lessons in on each piece, so, in my case, since I'm only going to choose one of the romantic pieces after learning them all, assuming I start the Ginastera again right away, I will get a maximum of four weeks between the first lesson on a piece and when it needs to be memorized and up to speed. This is in addition to whatever you need to do on all your other music.

I don't know, maybe this isn't that bad compared to others. But anyways, don't back down. Besides everything else you're learning about music, you're also learning how to prepare it to a quality degree in a very short time, which, considering the massive amount of gorgeous music out there for the piano, is quite a useful skill. Even as much as I love picking apart music and making it work technically, it is a lot more fun to me to play the piece through, and college teaches you to get there pretty fast while still producing a musically pleasing result.

One one last note, as oxy60 said: "Your college years are destined to be a time of learning and growth. Some things/goals/desires/people will be tossed aside and new ones will be acquired." Sage advice, but don't ever toss aside a goal or desire because something is standing in your way, or because you think you can't do it. Only toss them aside when some new goal comes and captures your heart and feeds the flames of passion even hotter. If playing the piano is something you truly love, do not give it up. Research, and seek help. The solution is out there.

[keyboardclass]

I'll bet they're a lot friendlier at wind/string forums!

[kelly_kelly]

Is it too late to switch to a single line instrument?  Your memory problems come across as pretty insurmountable.

Even if there were such a thing as "insurmountable" memory problems (which I'm positive there isn't... ), I don't see why switching to a single-line instrument necessarily makes memorizing easier. I memorize much more naturally on piano than on my string instrument.

To the OP, I think switching teachers is definitely a good start A teacher who knows what you need can make all the difference.

[piano_channeller]

I don't really want to defer for a year, I kind of just want to get Uni out of the way.

I felt the same when I was studying but life doesn't get any easier once you graduate, enjoy it while you can.

The pieces I'm currently learning are:
Debussy's Pour le piano - This is the one i'm really struggling with... I just can't seem to get around the piano fast enough.

Brahms rhapsodie in g minor, this isn't going all that terribly, just making such slow progress to learn the notes.

and also the Bach partita no.V (praeambulum) - this piece is a little easier, I'm not too worried about this one... it's really under the fingers.

For my last recital I played  a Rachmaninoff prelude, op32 no12. I did love this piece, but it went terribly. I get awfully nervous in exams... and just hit every wrong note possible! I've also done quite a few Chopin nocturnes now.

I should just like to echo what pianowolfi said about the Bach. Also, be aware that there are many pianists who could real off the Rachmaninoff with ease but would struggle with the a Bach Partita. The same goes for the Debussy, his music requires a different technique from the Classical composers that went before. I personally thrived on Impressionist and 20th Century music but struggled with early Romantic and Classical music, and never performed anything from the Baroque era while I was at University. You need a good understanding of where your strengths and weaknesses lie and also a teacher who understands this as well.

How do I practice... hmmmm. With my previous teacher, it was always taking it one hand at a time, learning each note, then putting it together. My new teacher... just expects me to play it. So I can't learn in my old way anymore... because I can't go into a lesson and just play to her the one hand I have learnt... she just wants me to play through it hands together straight off. Which makes my practice at home difficult, I can't learn this way easily. It feels like every time I play through the piece I'm playing it for the first time.... I'm not learning the notes I'm just sort of struggling through. Sometimes I feel it would be better to just not have the lessons!

This all sounds very weird. Is she expecting you to come in and have the entire piece down in a week?!

I do think however (and many people will disagree with me) that, once you've reached a certain level, learning pieces hands separately is often an inefficient use of practice time and makes greater and unnecessary demands on your memory. This is especially true of music with complex rhythms where the principal technical difficulty lies in co-ordination of both hands anyway and where one hand on it's own makes no sense without the interplay of the other.
 
Much better, in my opinion, to learn hands together from the earliest possible stage memorizing as you go. Just take one line at a time and repeat (or one bar) with a metronome, as slowly as necessary to avoid mistakes (slower in fact), then gradually increase the speed, observe all dynamics and phrasing from the outset and at every increment, and always stick to a tempo you can handle until you reach the correct one so that you don't practice making mistakes, then move onto the next line. Only break things down into LH and RH if there is a specific technical difficulty in one hand which needs addressing. In this way you might only learn two pages in a week but they'll be fully memorized, expressive and playable at the performance tempo.

Forgive me if this sounds like a fresh kind of madness.

[tacey]

Thankyou everyone for your comments and advice

I had my recital today. The Brahms and the Bach actually didn't go all that badly, there were many mistakes but I kept up with them and felt I played them musically.

And then the Debussy.... 
It was awful. I kept getting lost... hesitating.. mashing loads of notes in an attempt to find the right ones... changing speeds throughout... oh my goodness. It's frustrating because I CAN actually play it quite well.. I don't know what happened. I just got so nervous and shaky and ohhhhh dear!

Anyways, I have changed my first study to flute for next year! So now I can take a step back on piano and begin relearning at my own pace. Hopefully i'l be able to get some better results next year with flute as well. Phew.

[faa2010]

Thankyou everyone for your comments and advice

I had my recital today. The Brahms and the Bach actually didn't go all that badly, there were many mistakes but I kept up with them and felt I played them musically.

And then the Debussy.... 
It was awful. I kept getting lost... hesitating.. mashing loads of notes in an attempt to find the right ones... changing speeds throughout... oh my goodness. It's frustrating because I CAN actually play it quite well.. I don't know what happened. I just got so nervous and shaky and ohhhhh dear!

Anyways, I have changed my first study to flute for next year! So now I can take a step back on piano and begin relearning at my own pace. Hopefully i'l be able to get some better results next year with flute as well. Phew.

You know, when you take something seriously, you stop enjoying it, thus becoming a burden instead of a joy.  I can also get nervous in front of the stage, but this kind of things can happen to everybody. There are also situations when something can get wrong and you didn't plan it.

When an activity becomes quite stressful instead of being something relaxing, taking some time off is one of the best choice to do, and maybe what you did.  However, if you really, really, really, really are fond of it, a day will come when you will return to it.

[keyboardclass]

Anyways, I have changed my first study to flute for next year! So now I can take a step back on piano and begin relearning at my own pace. Hopefully i'l be able to get some better results next year with flute as well. Phew.

Hey, if it was good enough for Frederick the Great!  In fact make sure you check out Quantz.