What's the most dramatic piano piece ever written?

[bachbrahmsschubert]

Can we at least agree that I am an amazing specimen with incredible physical attributes?

[gep]

Can we at least agree that I am an amazing specimen with incredible physical attributes?

Not without pictures.

Btw, Thal, I must admire your in-depth knowledge of what you care to call "plinky" composers, I'd never heard of Pingoud! (His 2nd Piano Concert is in E-flat, or so I found. Doesn't sound very plinky to me!) Your knowledge in this field almost supersedes your knowledge of Sorabji's music! Ah well, "Was sich liebt, das neckt sich"!

all best,
gep

[thalbergmad]

I only came across Pingoud when I started to collect Finnish Piano Concerto scores. I have not heard any of his music and was basing my comments on the little write up on Wikipedia.

Anyway, I anticipate that he is only plinky level 1 or perhaps 2. Where did you find this recording??

Luv

Thal

[ahinton]

I anticipate that he is only plinky level 1 or perhaps 2.

Goodness me! Plinkyness is actually graded, is it? How many levels thereof are there? Can you please give us a handful of examples from each? Who judges levels of plinkiness? Are any tonal references permitted within any of the levels of plinkiness? And lastly (sorry for so many questions!), what are the essential differences betwen plinkiness and plonkiness?

If answers to some or all of these are forthcoming, we might yet expect the instigation of a new topic entitled "What's the most plinky piano piece ever written?"

I can't wait...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Goodness me! Plinkyness is actually graded, is it? How many levels thereof are there? Can you please give us a handful of examples from each? Who judges levels of plinkiness? Are any tonal references permitted within any of the levels of plinkiness? And lastly (sorry for so many questions!), what are the essential differences betwen plinkiness and plonkiness?

Of course it is graded, it would be senseless if it was not

Simplified, plinkiness is the level of atonality in any given piece of music and is graded from 1 to 10. 1 being the occasional use of atonality and 10 being exclusive use. Also, other factors are taken into consideration such as pointless hammering, lack of any discernible craft, use of silly notation to make something look good, length, and the ability to protect an acre of strawberries from birds. The device (currently being developed) to measure this is called a plonkometer. Of course tonal references are permitted, but obviously this reduces the "P" rating.

I will try to stay away from any gradings, but composers such as Xenakis and Berio will tend to be towards the 10 mark.

Hope this is clear.

Thal

[ahinton]

Of course it is graded, it would be senseless if it was not

Simplified, plinkiness is the level of atonality in any given piece of music and is graded from 1 to 10. 1 being the occasional use of atonality and 10 being exclusive use. Also, other factors are taken into consideration such as pointless hammering, lack of any discernible craft, use of silly notation to make something look good, length, and the ability to protect an acre of strawberries from birds. The device (currently being developed) to measure this is called a plonkometer. Of course tonal references are permitted, but obviously this reduces the "P" rating.

I will try to stay away from any gradings, but composers such as Xenakis and Berio will tend to be towards the 10 mark.

Hope this is clear.

Clear as mud, Thal, old chap. OK, the tonality / atonality bit is at least understandable to the extent that at least this "system" affords due recognition that tonality is a matter of degree rather than something black-and-white. "Pointless hammering" is a much harder one to define to a majority satisfaction, however - what about the incessant snare-drumming in certain bits of Nielsen's 4th and Shostakovich's 7th symphonies (each very tonal works, of course)? Discernible craft is another tricky one; would Bach have discerned craft in Chopin or Wagner? - perhaps so, but it's quite a grey area, this. What makes certain notation "silly" and with what parameters would you identify it? (of course some might be so, but I'm wondering how you'd arrive at incontrovertible conclusions as to what defines it). "Length"? In what way? Some of Sorabji's Frammenti Aforistici last a few second apiece and Götterdämmerung last - well, abit longer than that - so what are the conclusions about length that affect plinkiness grading? The strawberries and birds one is the most incomprehensible of the lot; I doubt that even Messiaen would have understood it, although I'd have been interested to know his view on the old cliché that strawberries were what resulted when God was trying to create raspberries but failed at the first attempt. I'd thought that plonkometers were instruments that measured quantities of rubbishy wine, but am pleased to have that evidently false impression corrected by a plonkometric expert; that said, however, I rermain curious as to why a plOnkometer measures degrees of plInkiness.

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

Hmm, that would make Beethoven's Piano Concerti plonk down at a level close to 1. I once was at a "concertante lecture" where a piece was played called "Grande accorde cromatico" (or something like that), consisting of playing 1 time all 88 keys at once. Guess your plokometer would go boink?

I have not heard any of his music and was basing my comments on the little write up on Wikipedia.

You are actually doing a plinkouisity-estimate based on a Wiki-line?? Wow....

Where did you find this recording??

You must have misunderstood me. I found the title "Pianoconcerto in E-flat major" to sound rather unplinkive. There aint no recording. So, if anyone at BIS or ONDINE or CPO is reading this, all three concertos should easily fit on one CD.

I started to collect Finnish Piano Concerto scores

Do you have the (rather tragic) Mielck's "Concert Piece" for Piano and Orchestra? It is a concerto, really. (NB: not the piece is tragic, but Mielck's fate is, or was).

I rermain curious as to why a plOnkometer measures degrees of plInkiness.

Well, tape measures measure more than tape, and an odometer does measure more than the lenght of Odo...

All best,
gep

[thalbergmad]

Do you have the (rather tragic) Mielck's "Concert Piece" for Piano and Orchestra? It is a concerto, really. (NB: not the piece is tragic, but Mielck's fate is, or was).

The CPS has the score and recording to this masterpiece.

I posted the beginning here: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=32652.50

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I found the title "Pianoconcerto in E-flat major" to sound rather unplinkive.

The title of a piece does not always give an indication of the P number.

Of course, stupid titles like "Points on a Curve to Find" does give some indication.

Thal

[sordel]

Also, other factors are taken into consideration such as pointless hammering.

Depending on the weighting of criteria, this may mean that future musicologists have to trace the Plinky Era back to Beethoven's Piano Sonata #29 In B Flat, Op. 106, "Plinkyklavier". Yet another major innovation to be set to his account.

[ahinton]

Depending on the weighting of criteria, this may mean that future musicologists have to trace the Plinky Era back to Beethoven's Piano Sonata #29 In B Flat, Op. 106, "Plinkyklavier". Yet another major innovation to be set to his account.

Indeed - not to mention Alkan's not much later ground-breaking Chemin de Plink. Hammer House of Horror came much later, of course, but hammers themselves date back centuries before the industrial revolution and long before anyone ever thought of incorporating them into keyboard instruments. If I had a hammer...

Best,

Alistair

[djealnla]

I planned to answer.

There was no need for it in any case.

[djealnla]

Same here. I refuse to enter into conversation with someone who is so desperate to make a point that they refer to a post I made nearly 4 years ago.

That is actually beyond pathetic.

Thal

I'm sorry, Thal, did I offend you? I'm trying to have a normal discussion, and this is how you reply? What am I supposed to do? I just asked you to stop beating a dead horse, and you tell me that what I did is "beyond pathetic"? Is this all that you can offer? I've always had a good opinion of you, and your post almost made me cry (read: "hurt and shocked me deeply"). I really don't understand why you have to avoid the point I'm making by pointing out that it relates to something passé, when in fact it deals with the past. Of course I'm not going to quote only a post you wrote yesterday if I'm going to say "years ago, you were far more polite", just like I'm not going to speak first and foremost about Xenakis if I want to discuss Palestrina. I don't get you. "sordel" has been substantially more critical of you in this thread than I have been, yet in the other thread (the one about the hardest post-Baroque toccata) you are not labeling his behavior as being "beyond pathetic". Is this the way you treat your friends? If they criticize you even a bit and as gently as one can, you call their behavior "pathetic" (or something like that)?

Also, please tell me what is the cutoff for being allowed to bring up a post from the past without acting in a manner that is "beyond pathetic". I'll be surprised if you'll reply to something in this post apart from this paragraph.

[djealnla]

Can we at least agree that I am an amazing specimen with incredible physical attributes?

If this is supposed to imply that I have a God complex, I defy you to show which part of my back-then-newest post in this thread reflects that.

[thalbergmad]

I've always had a good opinion of you, and your post almost made me cry (read: "hurt and shocked me deeply").

Like most women, you need to be a little less sensitive.

If my post "almost" made you cry, I hate to think how you behave at weddings.

Thal

[djealnla]

Like most women, you need to be a little less sensitive.

If my post "almost" made you cry, I hate to think how you behave at weddings.

Thal

Great. What about the rest of my post? Is it too pathetic to bother with?

Good job at ignoring what I wrote between parentheses.

[thalbergmad]

Great. What about the rest of my post? Is it too pathetic to bother with?

Yes

[djealnla]

Like most women, you need to be a little less sensitive.

If my post "almost" made you cry, I hate to think how you behave at weddings.

Thal

If I were in a more aggressive mood, I would accuse you sexism.

[djealnla]

Yes

Well Thal, I'm sorry for offending you, your behavior has been perfect from time immemorial, and I shall never offend nor criticize you again and persecute those who shall do so. I'm also infinitely ashamed of being such a pathetic person for daring to use logic (or even attempting to do so) and not being particularly selective in my quoting of others. Are you happy now?

[pianisten1989]

Like most women, you need to be a little less sensitive.

If my post "almost" made you cry, I hate to think how you behave at weddings.

Thal

HAHAHAHAH!!! Legendary!

[sordel]

"sordel" has been substantially more critical of you in this thread than I have been, yet in the other thread (the one about the hardest post-Baroque toccata) you are not labeling his behavior as being "beyond pathetic".

Hey, don't encourage him! 

[thalbergmad]

Hey, don't encourage him! 

That is beyond pathetic.

Perhaps that will keep her happy for 5 minutes.

Thal

[cocoterra]

Scriabin Op.8 No.12

Horowitz in his later days almost jumps of his chair at the climax when performing this piece

[myr]

This thread is so gratuitously disgusting and self-indulgent…and I love it.

Anyways, how about the piano transcription of Mozart's Dies Irae of his D minor Requiem? It's very fiery and pretty, too.

[pbryld]

Liszt: Totentanz wins hands down.

[steinway_d]

Totentanz by Liszt . . .

or Ecosaise by Hummel???

[prok_2]

Prokofiev piano Concerto No. 2 Op. 16

[pianovlad1996]

Yes. Prokofiev 2 is a very dramatic piece. It's also my favorite concerto, along with rach 3. I'll learn the prok 2 after the Emperor Concerto by Beethoven. I really want to play the prok concerto because of it's complexity and, of course, cadenza.  I understand why do you like so much this concerto. It's a true masterpiece.

[prok_2]

We seem to have a lot in common! I also love Rach 3 - I'm doing Prokofiev's 2nd concerto next year so I'm really excited about it since it's my favourite concerto and possibly composer as well...

[liszt_ani_rach]

Liszt's Sonata in B minor

[leonidli]

Hasn't anybody mentioned Alkan's Grande Sonate, Op. 33 yet? Or simply the Quasi-Faust in it?

I must also mentioned Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 31... or, again, just the last movement. There is Much drama, and in an extraordinary sense it is.

[richterfan1]

PIANO PIECE!

Chopin Scherzo No.3 and many others

[richterfan1]

Orchestral : Tchaikovsky Symphony No.6

[rv]

Chopin - Etude Op. 10 No. 12
Chopin - Etude Op. 25 No. 12
Chopin - Prelude Op. 28 No. 24
Scriabin - Etude Op. 8 No. 12
Scriabin - Prelude Op. 11 No. 14
Scriabin - Prelude Op. 11 No. 24
Scriabin - Etude Op. 42 No. 5
Scriabin - Sonata #2 Movement 2
Scriabin - Vers La Flamme
Rachmaninov - Elegie Op. 3 No. 1
Rachmaninov - Prelude Op. 3 No. 2
Rachmaninov - Prelude Op. 32 No. 10
Rachmaninov - Etude Op. 39 No. 5
Rachmaninov - Moment Musical No. 4
Lyapunov - Trancendental Etude No. 6

[ionian_tinnear]

Chopsticks..

Drama of it is will it ever end?  Will we ever hear harmony other than I - V7?

[point of grace]

could be:
Beethoven "Sonata Pathetique Op. 13, 1st Movement"
Scriabin Etude Op. 12 No. 8
Rachmaninoff Op. 16 No. 3
Liszt Piano Sonata
Brahms Danza Húngara No. 5 F#m
Dvorak Danza Slava Op. 79 No. 2

[ahinton]

Tiresome as this thread is, what about (Anton) Rubinstein's fourth symphony or Berlioz's Roméo et Juliette? At least these are subtitled "dramatic"...

Ah, of course - it's because the thread's about PIANO music, as an earlier poster apparently failed to notice...

Best,

Alistair

[pianowolfi]

I think the most dramatic piece ever is "The unanswerable Question" by N.B.H. Written

[semplice]

Schumann Träumerei played by me

[rummi]

I would say Beethoven's Appassionatta. Just listen to the finale and you will agree

[williampiano]

These would probably be the most dramatic in my opinion:

Prokofiev- 3rd movement from Piano Concerto no. 2
Scriabin- Etude op. 8 no. 12
Chopin- Winter Winds Etude
Prokofiev- Etude op. 2 no. 4
Shostakovich- Fugue (from Prelude and Fugue op. 87 no. 15)

[point of grace]

I would say Beethoven's Appassionatta. Just listen to the finale and you will agree

true

[pianoplayjl]

beethoven sonata op 27 no 2 3rd mvt.
i agree that Appassionata one of the most dramatic pieces written. I especially like the beginning of the first mvt where the loud chords come in. 

[impressionv]

Hi, I'm a composer i write differenet music but mostly piano music. U can listen my pieces. And say opinion.

https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/40763215/dramatic-piano-why.html
https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/38645938/soul-piano-confused.html
https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/38645518/piano-free-soul.html
https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/38571195/dramatic-piano-doubt.html
https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/40726868/dramatic-piano-last-winter.html
https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/40762954/romantic-piano-evening.html
https://www.pond5.com/stock-music/40765814/romantic-piano-tenderness-memories.html

[outin]

How nice that some spammer (or not, I'm not going to check him out) revived this ancient thread with such useful information on plinkyness! 

[mjames]

Jesus Christ this thread was amazing. Why doesn't street get this level of drama anymore?

[myr]

Jesus Christ this thread was amazing. Why doesn't street get this level of drama anymore?

while I'm all for a good rant, the stereotype that classical music fans are snobbish, sarcastic, and elitist really came to life in this thread.

[visitor]

hmm probably this should in the top few contenders

[pianoman8]

Sincer they are considered 1 work:Chopin Preludes!

[cbreemer]

the stereotype that classical music fans are snobbish, sarcastic, and elitist really came to life in this thread.

Had you not forgotten the word "some" you would be right on the ball