can a 33 years old begginer become a pianist.

[keypeg]

T Maybe he will learn a thing or two or maybe someone eles in a similar situation will gain some insight from various points of view.

The thing or two to be learned must come primarily from a student's teacher.  The very first pitfall that an adult student faces is when a teacher does not know he wants to learn seriously, and puts him on an amateur path - pieces oriented, not focusing much by way of skills, theoretically knowledge and the other branches of music.  Adult students are also often avoided by serious teachers so they are more likely to be shunted to someone who actually doesn't know much of that aspect.  Or a teacher who is fooled by our maturity otherwise, and doesn't develop the basic skills that the little kids get and we also need.

So the very first thing is to communicate your wishes with your teacher, and then for that teacher to be both willing and capable of giving that guidance.  If this isn't there, then anything that follows is moot.  Whatever guidance is coming from this board should be coming from a student's teacher, week after week.  The use that the comments here play is for a student to see what kinds of things ARE often considered .... and then take it with a big grain of salt since opinions are so varied from such varied sources (competent and not).

The second thing, once the first part with the teacher is established:  Follow what you are asked to do even if it doesn't make sense to you, but also do so intelligently instead of in a blind or exaggerated manner.  Give it time.  Push through.  If it's not working, tell your teacher.  You'll get at what the real goals are as you work with your teacher and experience these things.  And COMMUNICATE.

The first question is not whether you can become a professional pianist.  The first question is how to learn to play the instrument well, to understand music well enough, and put those two together.  You'll need to learn that in any case so focus on it.  Then when you get there, you can ask again whether you want to be a professional pianist.  IF you still do, also find out what that means.  Talk to professional pianists.

[dcstudio]

Fueling an improbable delusion helps nobody.

if you don't believe you can do this right from the start--no amount of training or technical or natural ability will convince you otherwise.  true--simply enthusiastically saying you can do it isn't everything but, tell me...what can it possibly hurt?   

[nyiregyhazi]

if you don't believe you can do this right from the start--no amount of training or technical or natural ability will convince you otherwise.  true--simply enthusiastically saying you can do it isn't everything but, tell me...what can it possibly hurt?   

It can cause a guy to be wasting a very large number of hours on practising, without much chance of acquiring anything in particular to show for it. Trying to immediately apply a work ethic based on achieving professionalism is not a good idea. First you learn to play comfortably.

[keypeg]

No.  First you learn what to aim for.

[nyiregyhazi]

No.  First you learn what to aim for.

To know what to aim for requires understanding of how you are doing. If you're not moving comfortably and well, to do so is always the very first aim to have. Only then can you go on to set serious goals that are attainable. Useful aims are generally the product of ongoing assessment rather than preconceived- but to move well always needs to be the first one. Anything that puts other goals first just causes dead ends- whether the goal is to be a concert pianist or to learn a specific piece. In any situation where it's not happening, that should be the single biggest aim. Learning to play comfortably and knowing what to aim for are one and the same thing.

[keypeg]

To know what to aim for requires understanding of how you are doing. If you're not moving comfortably and well, to do so is always the very first aim to have. Only then can you go on to set serious goals that are attainable. Useful aims are generally the product of ongoing assessment rather than preconceived- but to move well always needs to be the first one. Anything that puts other goals first just causes dead ends- whether the goal is to be a concert pianist or to learn a specific piece. In any situation where it's not happening, that should be the single biggest aim. Learning to play comfortably and knowing what to aim for are one and the same thing.

Sorry, this is not solely the responsibility of a beginner student who has a teacher.  It is primarily the responsibility of the teacher.  Do you disagree with that?

[nyiregyhazi]

Sorry, this is not solely the responsibility of a beginner student who has a teacher.  It is primarily the responsibility of the teacher.  Do you disagree with that?

No. Do you assume I would? I was neither making a statement about where responsibility lies nor any implication. The point is the same whoever the responsibility lies with. My point is that the very first thing a pianist must do to achieve long-term success is learn a good quality of comfortable and healthy movement. The only aims they should have early on should be that and the specifics of how to achieve it. Otherwise you can practise for hours and go nowhere useful. Few other goals are of much value early on- especially if someone hopes to aim high in the long run.

That said, ultimately everything is the student's responsibility. If your teacher doesn't pass on what you need to know, it's no use determining where blame is correctly to be laid. The student has take action themself. When someone is serious about improving, the buck stops with them. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a rare teacher who is truly comprehensive about setting foundations and who can be trusted upon for all.

[keypeg]

I am writing from a student perspective both because I am one and because the asker is a student.  I've been in similar shoes.  It is important for a student to know that the responsibility is the teacher's and he can't figure out these things being pointed out by himself.  While it is true that a student needs to be careful about how and by whom he is taught, he cannot do much about that either until he is informed enough.  You go in circles making enormous efforts in the wrong directions if you don't know.  Forums such as this help best if they point such a student in those directions.  We can't read between the lines at that stage because there are not enough dots to connect.  Sorry for the mixed metaphor.

[dcstudio]

I agree that a teacher has a responsibility to provide correct information--but I also think that a student must take some responsibility for their own musical education.  There are so many teachers out there who are not as informed and experienced as many of the teachers who post here.  Yes it is a teachers responsibility--but it's the students responsibility to find the teacher.  I blamed my teachers for a lot that I shouldn't have.  I guesstimate of about 900+ piano lessons over too many years--most of those hours were pretty informative.  I only had a few poor teachers and profs, but it was really easy to blame them for my short-comings. convenient, too.  As a teacher -- I strive to present information, encourage said information, and do no harm... 

[keypeg]

The big, big thing is to have enough of an idea of what it entails so that you know what to ask and what to look for at least in the rough.  I wish I would have known this when I started and that is why I am pushing for it in forums.

I agree that if we have been on an inadequate or wrong path, it is useless to blame a teacher.  At that point we have to say "What is missing?  How do I get it with whom?" and then "What do I have to do?"  In fact, so far I have only met one person who did not have to step back and relearn or fill in the holes at some point of their studies because of what they were taught first.  Music study (and teaching) seems to be tricky business.

One of the most useful and comprehensive sites I found a few years ago was this: https://www.marthabeth.com/pedagogy.html

[javierchomer]

It depends on what your definetion of concert artist is. Some pianist have had one or two major performances and consider themselves "concert pianist". To what level are you trying to achieve? If you want to become an international star winning competitions around the world and playing with the world's best orchestra then I do not think you can compete with someone who has been playing since they were 3. However as an adult student you can be completely capable of performing a concerto or two with a community orchestra or performing solo recitals at a community center. I personally think these are more realistic and admirable goals for adult students.

 Neurologically and physically the adult body is wired different from younger students. Younger students able to absorb knowledge much more effienctly and quickly. For example students are able to be completely fluent in multiple languages at ages as young as seven because of how immersed they are in an environment with uses for both languages. They did not have to learn by doing worksheets or learn slowly or have a "teacher" because it was just a part of their life.

I just personally feel it would be better to have a goal of just playing music at a level that you want to play at and strive for that rather than trying to compete with people who have an advantage in many aspects. If you can play the pieces you love and enjoy making music then you can achieve the same happiness concert pianist have when they perform. Concert pianist do it because they can and they enjoy it. If they had to choose between being a concert pianist and just being able to play music they want whenever they want to they would probably choose the latter. I say that because the negative aspects of competetion, pressure, stage fright, dealing with egos, and stress maybe worth the glamor of being a concert pianist for some but not everyone would be able to cope with it all the time. 

Thanks a lot for your advice. So my first goal is to start making money for playing piano and for showing my piano skills. Once I get there, I will like to get better and better. And to have an unique piano skills. I will like to compose and to play that music. And to play different kind of music and at different places.

[javierchomer]

33 sounds incredibly young to me! I am 67 years old and returning to the piano 55 years after my last  lesson (yes, I was 12!) I have passion and I am addicted -but boy do i get tired and achey! Dont give up-you can do whatever you want if you try hard enough, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.Never put a limit on anything you have a yearning or a passion to do, -and good luck with your career!!

Thanks a lot for your comment. How were your piano classes when you were a boy. were they difficult to you?

[javierchomer]

just be careful to not hurt your fingers like Chopin! take proper rests~~~

Thanks a lot four your advice. What did happend to Chopin?

[javierchomer]

your playing is passionless. I don't know if that comes with practice, or is a natural inclination. For someone that loves the piano, where is the passion in the notes you are playing?

It is a good point to mention. Like I have to play a song that I feel more attached to it to show more passion at my playing. I think that is more about trying to feel more, cause I am beginning started with the technichal part. Now I am trying to put more passion into the songs I am playing.

Thanks a lot for your comment. I

[javierchomer]

Well it's easy to say that when somebody is still so much busy with getting the notes together!

I also teach adult beginners and I think they're all passionate, without any exception. But it takes quite a bit of time and patience to get to the point where you can express your passion through your playing. The coordination between your hands, the rhythm, the flow, all that which is evidently already there for many people who started as a child, all this has to be learned from scratch! And I don't think it's impossible! In two years it will sound much different from now! But it's important to keep in touch with your body and don't tense up! And don't force things! Let them just develop!

Thanks a lot for your comment. I will give myself some time to adapt more to the piano.

[javierchomer]

Listen, you are 33 and you got some serious catching up to do. There is nothing wrong with that. I may be able to offer you some help.

Robert Schumann (a brilliant song writer if you don't know) created a very crafty invention for limbering up the fingers of piano players. If you use it for a few hours a day, it might help your playing considerably. I highly recommend you invest in this device. (I can't say the name because of patent protection). But, with an internet search, you can track one down easily.  The next time you post one of your videos, we will all notice the difference it has had on you.

Good luck to you!

Thanks a lot for your advice. Can you recommend me a site to look at. For those exercises? I will need to read a bit more about music. I love classic. I love Shumann music. One of his songs that I like a lot is the wild-horseman from the album for the young people. I   

[javierchomer]

what's more pathetic is you guys getting suckered into all this person's troll threads. If you believe this guy is for real, you are beyond stupid. If he is not trolling, my advice is more sound than yours (blowing smoke up his behind). That is not going to help him get better.

Sorry to break it to you, there is a troll here, and I am just trying to set the bait for him and you uptight nerds are getting way to involved.

Thanks for your comment. But the things that I say are real.

[javierchomer]

don't believe anyone who says you can't do it.  A lot of people who failed at music LOVE to tell others how it's IMPOSSIBLE.   Believe me--nothing is impossible.   It's the piano--it's not rocket science.

Thanks for your advice.

[javierchomer]

Fueling an improbable delusion helps nobody. I'm afraid to say that the guy does indeed play in a remarkably dry and empty way for someone of enthusiasm. I believe this is as much due to technical problems as musical ones though. He needs to acquire the physical "feel" for playing confidently and rhythmically first. Sadly this is still altogether absent and instead there are a series of disconnected finger prods with little musical context. Spending hours of practise with such rigid arms is not going to lead anywhere special any time soon- be it rocket science or not. If he's really doing 5 hours per day, I'm sorry to say that most of that time is currently being wasted. If he starts by sorting out his basic technique then he can start to think about aiming for a high standard next. To encourage him to think what he is currently doing might lead to professionalism would be well and truly cruel, not supportive. All the hours in the world won't make that happen unless MAJOR changes are made. If he's even half serious, he needs a massive wake-up call.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

You cannot move like that and hope that putting hours in will compensate for lost time. This calls for some urgent attention to the basics, or there's really no chance of serious progress. A large number of hours will do more harm than good, with the current style of movement. Working hard is no guarantee of progress, unless you know what you are striving for.

[javierchomer]

I'd like to go off on a completely different direction.

Javierchomer, you said that you have a teacher and you take three lessons per week.  Some questions:

Does your teacher know that you want to become a professional pianist if possible?  Are you taking private lessons, group lessons, or a combination of both?  Has your teacher told you what direction he wants to take you, or goals that he wants you to work toward, or guided you in how to practice and approach your music?  

The problem with all this speculation is that it's only been three months and nobody knows what this teacher has in mind, whether he knows his student's goals, and if he does if he is taking them seriously and working toward them.  Different teachers have different approaches and some aren't overt about them: they sneak in the skills they want to give.  One teacher may give priority to the physical aspects of playing, another may want reading abilities and experiences with a pile of pieces to be the first background, and another may think theory or ear is paramount.  And some simply go through a roster of repertoire or method books with no goal in mind at all.

If it hasn't been done, I suggest telling this teacher your goal.  You want to know what kinds of things you need to learn to do (and what kinds of things you need to learn) in order to become a good pianist and a good musician.  How do you get there?  How do you practice and how do you study?  This teacher may or may not be able to answer this.  But this is the starting point.

A forum cannot tell you much.  Also, the big thing that is missing is what and how you are being taught.  The feedback of what people are telling you cannot keep that in mind because it's not known.

I'm not a teacher and the amount of piano training I've had to date is negligeable.  But I am a serious student and I did have some years as an adult on another instrument, and raised a child who made it to a music program in college as a late starter but still in his early teens.

Thanks a lot for your advice

[ethure]

Thanks a lot four your advice. What did happend to Chopin?

oh He started to learn piano at 19 and wanted to be a concert pianist(or a great pianist I coudn't remember). he practised too much till one day he hurt his hands which made him unable to reach where he wanted to reach any more.  ):

[pianowolfi]

oh He started to learn piano at 19 and wanted to be a concert pianist(or a great pianist I coudn't remember). he practised too much till one day he hurt his hands which made him unable to reach where he wanted to reach any more.  ):

I'm afraid you're severely misinformed.

[faa2010]

Yeah, Chopin's upbringing was of musicians (his older sister was his first piano teacher).

Nevertheless, as long as God gives you the chance to still being alive, you don't have to desist in your dreams.

I know that it's not very encouraging the idea of having less chances to enter due to getting older and paying more attention to "young talent", but let's face that everyone gets older and as long as you have passion for what you are doing, one can try and don't get discourage of being rejected because of not being rich, younger and have "important contacts".

I hope your dream of entering comes true. 

[ethure]

I'm afraid you're severely misinformed.

oh how stupid! it was Shumann. i mistook the name there. 

[lostinidlewonder]

I played this music after 3 months. Yet there were parts were I didn't payed much attention to the rythm.

I also never take days off or take holidays just because I always practice.

I watched this

I didn't read any other replies so excuse me if I repeat anything.

I don't know how much time you invested to get to this level but this recording is far from mastery. Your teacher should have picked up on your hesitations in your playing and the stiffness of your playing and be able to give you insight how to increase the tempo but at the same time feel relaxed and controlled.

I also feel that you are sitting too low at the keyboard and those cross legs on those keyboard are a nightmare to sit at, I find you cannot sit close enough because your knees hit into them. Your position at the keyboard is essential to make your playing easier, I feel that a lot needs to improve just how you are sitting and resting your hands at the keyboard, your teacher should help you here, show them your videos here because I'm thinking that you are taking lessons on their pianos on their stools and not the one you are using at home, the one you practice on the most!

Keep practicing.

[legibet]

Perhaps it depends on your definition of a concert pianist. Many people call themselves concert pianists because they play the piano in some concerts and pick up some money along the way for doing so. Now my definition of a concert pianist has always been somebody who plays with major orchestras, and typically has a schedule of many well-paid professional gigs with orchestra /solo recitals every month. This latter category is a rare breed, and the talent, commitment and drive needed to make it in this toughest-of-all-professions is eye-watering. Becoming a brain surgeon is a doddle compared to earning a living from one's fingers playing recitals and concertos. I am afraid to say this but it is best left to those who are already attracting awe-struck attention by the time they are in their early teens.

That's not to say there isn't work out there for pianists. For most of us, this means accompanying, teaching, more teaching, playing at functions such as weddings, doing charity concerts, and so the list goes on. And as for having to practice 9 hours a day - that is claptrap. Most 'serious' pianists will go through a phase in their life of practising like a maniac, typically while they are at music college. Best to get this phase done with as young as possible - because there is no time to practise 9 hours a day when you need to earn a living.

Sorry if my post sounds a little pessimistic, but being a concert pianist in the definition I have presented here is generally for those who show truly lucifer-like talent (i.e. pass their grade 8 distinction at 11-12 years old) and are committed going through with a career, which however glamorous on the surface, is rather like chasing a mirage in the dessert. I know people who were super-prodigies and are still doing DMAs, postgrads and what-not into their 30s because elite pianism is simply so competitive that there are no opportunities for them. Make no doubt about it - even for those pianists who are at the absolute elite pinnacle of playing (say for instance the cream of the Paris Conservatoire, Julliard or the Royal Academy of Music), only a small fraction will have careers touring around giving concerto performances and so forth. The rest will typically teach, get married to wealthy businessmen, do non-glamorous playing / accompanying work or some combination of these.

For normal pianists (not concert pianists) a good place to start finding work is to sign up for a website such as www.pianoaccompanists.com - this can actually find you some paying gigs (I get much of my work from them these days).

[nyiregyhazi]

That's not to say there isn't work out there for pianists. For most of us, this means accompanying, teaching, more teaching, playing at functions such as weddings, doing charity concerts, and so the list goes on. And as for having to practice 9 hours a day - that is claptrap. Most 'serious' pianists will go through a phase in their life of practising like a maniac, typically while they are at music college. Best to get this phase done with as young as possible - because there is no time to practise 9 hours a day when you need to earn a living.

Fair point. But let's not forget that accompanying and teaching etc. requires a notable level of attainment too. We shouldn't assume such things are a guaranteed fall-back and especially not if starting in later life. It's only something to fall back on if you're easily up to the task. If not, it's a possible goal to aspire towards, at best. It would be wrong to say "no chance!", but it would be unrealistic to assume that such things are a given. All the things you list still require serious professional skills- even if they don't require the same absurd level of ability that being a top soloist does. Brain surgery/rocket science is for the absolute elite of particular fields- but we don't assume that anyone can fall back on being a lesser category surgeon or is guaranteed to be up to completing an undergraduate physics degree instead.

To be perfectly realistic, I'd have to say that the guy's videos do not show a particularly promising start (especially considering the large amount of practise he has spoken of doing) if he's aiming at professional teaching or accompanying. At the very least, there's a hell of a long way to go (a number of years, at least) and I would personally suggest that he has to make some significant changes if he's going to have any chance of getting some money for his troubles.

[dcstudio]

wow, still debating this one? 

really, who among us could ever attempt to answer that question. It is fun to try I suppose.

[shazeelawan]

9 hours? Having a recital in a month but I'm practicing only for 3+ hours per day,haha  Well, if you say you want to earn some money and impress people with your piano skills...you've still got a long way to go,but the key is not quantity but quality. No point in practising for a long time if you're not focusing,no? Maybe you should pay extra attention to the parts where you have problems. Focus on those parts a little bit more,and try to listen to the notes as well as where to place your hands; I find that it helps,a little. I'm not in any position to give 'professional' advice (since I'm still a young student myself), but you can always find ways to make money with your skills if you're innovative,and as for composing, that may take a long time yet,because you'll have to develop your listening skills and knowledge of theory (i.e,chord progressions and so on). Anyway,good luck! ^^

[drapopolus]

9 hours? Having a recital in a month but I'm practicing only for 3+ hours per day,haha   Well, if you say you want to earn some money and impress people with your piano skills...you've still got a long way to go,but the key is not quantity but quality. No point in practising for a long time if you're not focusing,no? Maybe you should pay extra attention to the parts where you have problems. Focus on those parts a little bit more,and try to listen to the notes as well as where to place your hands; I find that it helps,a little. I'm not in any position to give 'professional' advice (since I'm still a young student myself), but you can always find ways to make money with your skills if you're innovative,and as for composing, that may take a long time yet,because you'll have to develop your listening skills and knowledge of theory (i.e,chord progressions and so on). Anyway,good luck! ^^

This is where it's at. I agree completely.

It's the little things that make a great performance. Given that the OP said he's overlooked some rhythmic elements, I'd suggest starting there. Kids are going to pick this stuff up fast because it sticks and they go on practicing correctly. Don't race through the baby steps or you'll carry that with you and your practice will suffer. Again - Quality, not quantity, so get a metronome and get your rhythmic units down. It might mean you have to take a step back and work on easier material, but so be it.

I've had this reality check, and it's liberating to iron those kinks out, believe me. Plus, you've got the added benefit of having more focus than most children. Why not work on your rhythm all day long? There're plenty of little methods. EG: While walking - Use your footsteps as the metronome beat and count out 8th notes. Skip over to triplets, or any other value, and back again. Better still - hum a melody with those notes. I do this constantly and come up with great stuff all the time that I later try to recollect at the piano. Furthermore: Why pigeonhole yourself? If you become a professional pianist, great. If not, so be it. If you love the piano as much as you say, show us, and keep on practicing.