Why do you teach?

[m1469]

Hello there everyone... I am feeling rather frustrated and I am wondering if your anwsers to my question could provide for me a little inspiration and a deeper understanding of what 'we' as piano teachers are trying to "accomplish" in teaching.

Why do you teach?

I started off on my musical path very inspired and very serious about it all... very hopeful, yet quite unsure about what lay ahead.  Suddenly, here I am teaching.  While there are issues with that in and of itself (like still trying to figure out exactly what I am doing and the like) and I don't know exactly what lay ahead... my responsibilities are different now, and I definitely do not feel as inspired as I once did.

I am trying to re-evaluate it all.  Does anyone have helpful thoughts?  I would much appreciate them.

Thanks,

m1469

[Swan]

Why do you teach?

Boy, that's a mighty big question!!!

Well, it's not for the money!  If I gave up teaching all together, it woudn't effect the household income that much because I just don't make that much.  (and what I do make usually goes back into the business on resources or instruments).

So for me, it really is something I can do that makes me happy.

MMmmmm, long story or short story?  Compromise:  tell you the medium lenght story!  

For as long as I can remember (before school) I have always wanted to teach in some way.  I would line up teddy bears and would teach them things.  THen I'd do it with my friends, and 'teach' them things.  I don't remember what, but I remember writing on a blackboard!

When I was nine, I announced I was going to University to become a teacher.... of what, I didn't know.  

High school I did a stint of journalism (wrote for a few newspapers), and thought, well, this is what I'll be.  Then a did drama!!  and suddenly I knew what was supposed to happen in my life.  I would go to University, study drama, become a teacher in a school for a bit of experience, then own and manage my own drama school complete with playhouse and company!  

Did the Uni, teaching thing, then got very sick and had to just rest.  It took me a whole year of literal rest before I started to feel better.

Music has always been a part of my life and something that had always come very naturally to me.  Played many instruments by now (and had also done music at Uni).

A young friend asked me to teach her the piano.  I agreed.  Then one of her friends asked.... and to cut this long story down to a medium story, before long I had a music studio.  That was ten years ago, and I'm still loving it!

Why I wanted to teach, I really have no idea.  It was something that was just there.  Even with Drama, although I did the acting, it was behind the scenes I loved - direction!  Perhaps it just comes down to the fact I like tellling people what to do!

Why I continue?  I don't have kids of my own, and I really, really enjoy being in their company.  I feel a great sense of satisfaction teaching, seeing people go from not having certain skills to gradually mastering them!  I love music, but I also like developing the teacher relationship with all of these individuals that you just don't have a chance to in the class room.

and I definitely do not feel as inspired as I once did.

Is this because you wanted to be a performer and not a teacher and you see teaching as being the 'make do' option?

Does anyone have helpful thoughts?

To be helpful, I think I'd need to know what you're frustrated and uninspired about.

I find it a real shame that people really buy into the 'if you can't do, teach'.  

deeper understanding of what 'we' as piano teachers are trying to "accomplish" in teaching.

"We" as a collective doesn't work.  Private piano tuition is a very personal thing.  You have to find out what you are trying to accomplish.  

Personally, I am not breathing just to find a child prodigy who can become the next 'big thing'.  I'm very happy just teaching preliminary to grade 8 students.  

If I was feeling a little more profound I could give you a much better answer.  Today is a 'brain tired' day.

What do you THINK piano teachers should try and accomplish?

[ahmedito]

I love teaching. That is why I studied the piano. I really think that you must keep your goals when starting a profesional career. Unless you're Kissin, you will most probably study to become a piano teacher, not a concert pianist or profesional performer. If you dont love teaching, I dont advise studying to be a profesional pianist (unless you're like Kissin, as I said). I love teaching, I love giving others the gift of music, if not through performance, directly teaching it to them. Its the whole point of why I study the piano... to be able to give music to others.

[m1469]

thanks Swan and Ahmedito, I very much appreciate your responses.

To answer your first question of me Swan, I don't know exactly what I set out to be.  Well, actually I did have major fantasies of being a performer... but mostly I just absolutely loved the art itself.  I loved music, and especially that which is demonstrated on the piano.  Piano has been an important facet of my life since I was 2.

But, when I really decided to take it seriously, it was quite late.  I decided to study in University, and consequently, had the opportunity to study with some of the most well known pianists in my state, and decided to seize the opportunities head-long.  During this time, frankly, I did a lot of metaphysical work, deciding I would not let the human concept of time be a barrier to the art I knew was inside of me (very cheezy, I know).  

Consequently, I believe I accomplished a great deal in 3 years.  However, I don't have any idea whether I am "talented" or not (I do have a point in mentioning all this, I promise).  During this time, I thought that even a teaching career would be wonderful, thinking that it was close to the art that I so loved, but I didn't even expect that to work out necessarily.

It has always been important to me to have my career be something that I love doing, and when I was graduating, it seemed natural to start a piano studio, although it was very meek.

At this time though, I had major beliefs about what music and piano meant to me, and about its role in society, its influence on humanity, and many other things.  I mostly felt a deep sense of compassion for people who want music to be a part of their lives, who want to play the piano, but feel intimidated for whatever reasons.  In these cases, it was and is all about breaking barriers and helping people to discover within themselves something beautiful and profound, and something beyond what they even thought to be possible for them.  I want to help them see their own and very real importance in the world of music.

I mentioned the word "talent", not knowing what that really means at all.  I believe that everyone has some sort of talent for music and the piano.  Who's really to say that they don't?  What makes somebody more talented than another? Nobody has ever given me a definition that convinces me of there being something out there called "talent" that some people have and others don't.  So, along with my above paragraph, I have wanted to give all people the opportunity to discover their own "talent" and have deeply believed that everybody is capable.

As far as children go, I have a particular sense of compassion for them also.  I think about my own upbrining, and how important piano has been for me, and I wonder how things would be for me now if my opportunities had been different as a child.  I desparately want to give kids the opportunities they need to grow and develop in ways that will be helpful and conducive for any future desires they may have with music and piano.  There are many more things I believe along these lines, but I will not mention them right now since I seem to be writing a marathon!

I also wanted to teach piano because I have been deeply concerned about the state of the world, and also the survival of pure art.  By teaching in a one-on-one setting, I feel I have greater opportunity to reach the individual and give them what they need to aspire to greater things than what they could have fathomned before.

I believe that music and piano is not an isolated aspect of an individual's life.  I believe it is all tied together, so ultimately, I want to help each individual be more of the person they can be, in all areas of their lives.

what I am frustrated about... please look below  

[m1469]

Perhaps it may be obvious why I am frustrated.  Obviously, not many people feel the way that I do.  

There are so many things I feel frustrated about, that I hardly know how to begin.

Aside from the things in human nature that seem to be able to turn even the most beautiful and precious things about life, into something fiercely ugly, there are more surfacey things that I am feeling frustrated about.

I want to teach excellence and, while I do not have a certain model that I expect anybody but myself to mold their lives to, there are some basic things that seem to stop anybody else from finding their own.  

Like... kids doing way too many things and not being dedicated to any one or two activities.  Living in a new-agey small town where it is virtually impossible to impart any sort of disciplined aspect about life.

But my most recent big giant revelation as of yesterday, was realizing that teaching in and of itself is not actually about the art that I love and had set out to experience with people.  The only thing in common is the fact that a piano is involvled in both.

I feel it is impossible to reach my ideals the way that things are going right now, and I don't know how to change them.  

Pretty much, that's it in a nut-shell.

I realize that I may need to grow.  But, perhaps I am in the wrong profession?

Again, I would very much appreciate any helpful and constructive feedback people have for me.

Thanks,

m1469

[reinvent]

m1469,
What did you mean when you said (I'm having a problem cutting and pasting)
something about a major revelation you had yesterday.
What happened?

[Swan]

Teaching in any form is so much more than the subject!  Especially one on one every week for years on end.  
It's not just about piano, it's not just about music - it is about art and life - if that's what you want it to be!  But it takes time and it takes patience and it takes fortitude and it takes constant trial and error and the ability to self evaluate and self motivate! If you can do these things then, yes, you are in the right profession!

For some people, teaching the piano is about 'teaching kids to play the piano' and that is much easier than what you have in mind m1469.  But don't give up on it just because it is difficult and you run into some very high walls.

I don't have any idea whether I am "talented" or not

Many people believe 'talent' as being something given to you by God, or something innate you're born with.  I used to think this way because I grew up with people saying how 'talented' I was.  And a person could go mad trying to work out whether it is nature or nurture.  The point is, it doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter if you are or aren't talented, it doesn't matter if your students are or aren't talented, it's how much you love and how much you work and how much you're prepared to dedicate that matters.  Do yourself and your students a huge favour and don't bother wondering about 'talent' ever again!

I have wanted to give all people the opportunity to discover their own "talent" and have deeply believed that everybody is capable.

Sometimes it's a matter of the teacher finding their particular 'talent' first and nurturing it to the point where the child can see and believe in their own 'talent'.  And by talent, I mean, whatever they're good at!  Reality necessitates that our criteria for 'good at' begins humbly.  Can they find all the notes on the piano and name them quickly.  "You have a great talent for that!"  For a young beginner, this is entirely appropriate.  You wouldn't be so quick to give the same praise to an older student who has been learning for many years.  So our expectations need to be appropriate.

And this point ... appropriate expectations ... takes some trial and error and time and patience on our behalf.

If we are flexible with our 'ideals', frustration won't kill our positive enthusiasm.

I'm not saying, give up what you're after and just accept whatever life throws at you.  No way!

Work out new and different ways to get where you want to get.  It may take longer than you first thought.  I've been teaching privately for ten years now, and still am thinking of new ways to inspire, encourage ... reach a particular student.   I hope in another ten years, I'm STILL experimenting, trying new things.  

I had major beliefs about what music and piano meant to me, and about its role in society, its influence on humanity,

You 'had' - past tense.  What were they, and why did you allow them to disappear/change?  Be as specific as you can.  Point form helps!    

is all about breaking barriers and helping people to discover within themselves something beautiful and profound, and something beyond what they even thought to be possible for them.

What age group are you hoping this for?  This can happen very often for adults and older teenagers. (Just yesterday I had a 13 year old exclaim, 'I can't believe I've been playing for two years already!'  She was very excited and pleased with what she'd been able to do.  This was a nice moment for both of us.  Small, but it's 'little' things like this that can be very fulfilling - if you recognise it for what it is: a major self realisation for the girl.   And she felt close enough to me to share that with me.  That made me feel good.  Always allow the little things to register on your accomplishment metre!)
For young children, they are learning new things every day of their life and just take it for granted.  They're not likely to say "I can't believe I can do this now!"

This same 13 year old had sat for her second exam just a little while ago, and we had both worked hard for it.  No thank you's, or I'm grateful or any acknowledgement for the effort I had put in, but when she got an A (which she wasn't expecting) she burst into tears (happy ones) and threw her arms around ME - not her mother (who was standing beside her).  Sometimes kids don't let you know how they're feeling, but it doesn't mean they're not feeling it.

also wanted to teach piano because I have been deeply concerned about the state of the world, and also the survival of pure art.  By teaching in a one-on-one setting, I feel I have greater opportunity to reach the individual and give them what they need to aspire to greater things than what they could have fathomned before.

I absolutely agree with you.  It's a little like seeing all the starving children in the world. Sponsoring one child is not going to change the situation a great deal, but it will effect that one person for the better.
We as teachers, can have a mighty effect on individual's lives - and it's the individual that makes up families, that make up socieites, that make up nations, that makes the world!  Just imagine if every teacher in the world felt as you did.  Reality, it's not going to happen, but you don't know now if just one of your students is going to grow up with the same conviction you have "I'm going to teach the way m1469 did, because it made a difference to me and I want to make a difference to others."    

There's a lovely story that is relevent to this.

'There was a huge storm on the sea one day, and the tide washed upon the shore millions and millions of star fish, now struggling for thier very lives.
A young man looked upon the shore and was devestated with great sadness.  In the distance he saw an old man struggling as he bent over to pick up a star fish and throw it back into the ocean.
The young man was perplexed.  He approached the old man and said, "Why are you bothering, there are so many of them, you can't possibly make a difference!"
The old man bent over once again, picked up a single star fish and threw it into the ocean.  "I made a difference to that one."
Now there were two men throwing star fish back into the ocean.

(see, now we're both 'cheesy').  

But my most recent big giant revelation as of yesterday, was realizing that teaching in and of itself is not actually about the art that I love and had set out to experience with people.  The only thing in common is the fact that a piano is involvled in both.

I'm curious about this too.  What happened m1469?

[Egghead]

Perhaps it may be obvious why I am frustrated.  Obviously, not many people feel the way that I do.  ...

Dear m1469,

you do not know me and I do not dare to suggest I fully understand your situation. And yet, what you describe SOUNDS so familiar in many ways!

I agree with every single word Swan has said in the previous post. What I would like to add is this:
You DO teach excellence. You have taught me. Thank you!  

I have read many of your posts and found them inspiring. You dare to ask hard questions. It was a discovery for me to find there are people with this degree of dedication out there. Then I wanted to know more about a forum that has people like you on it. Now I am learning something new from this forum every day...

Trying to achieve excellence and more so, trying to get others to see excellence as a worthy goal can seem like fighting wind-mills. Amazingly enough, though, excellence does breed excellence - in all areas of life. From my personal experience all that is required is a kind of selfless stubbornness and an open mind. People eventually realise that striving for excellence is simply deeply satisfying.

A final note: please keep your lemonade-pizza-sense-of-humour active. Life is so wonderfully absurd. Please laugh at my silly post. It is intensely silly! So there. It is the best I can currently do and it is what I chose to do with this half hour of my life. And now it's time to get back to work. (heavy hint here, if you like  )

Thanks again and kind regards,
Egghead, aka Starfish.

[m1469]

I appreciate what feedback people have given me.  

How kind you are Egghead, to voice such nice things to me.  I truly appreciate it more than I can say.  And, you're right, I do need to keep a sense of humor about it all, thanks for reading my posts.  Also, I appreciate what you have had to say about the pursuit of excellence.

And, Swan, you have more than once taken seriously my questions and concerns, and have helped me very much. Thank you.  I can tell that you take what you do seriously, and that you have fun doing it  .


To answer the question of what happened to cause my big revelation, I will do the best that I can, but some of it I can't really put into words.  I think that the stiuation I am going to describe is much more like the straw that broke the camels back...

I am teaching two sisters who live next door to me (they are complete beginners, and have been taking lessons for about a month or two), and with the arrival of the first sister for her lesson, their mother comes in to inform me that the other sister is feeling overwhelmed, with school starting and all, but in general.  I noticed this last lesson that I had with her and went to great lengths to slow everything down and explain in detail how to learn and practice a piece, writing down steps for her to follow etc etc., but she couldn't even bring herself to listen.

Anyway, her mother tells me that it will just be the one sister for a few weeks and that the other will be having a break.  This was not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I was relatively okay with it.  So I proceeded to have a lesson with the first sister, who is sharp and interested, but pretty raw.  That was okay.  Then, toward the end of the lesson, to my surprise the other sister shows up afterall.  Apparently mom wanted the break to begin after that pointless lesson.  I have to say that I felt fairly angry.

1)  I could not assign her anything for the next time I see her because that wouldn't be a "break"

2)  she had no idea why she was there, nor did I and she seemed to be on the brink of tears the entire time

I was so mad at the situation, for several reasons, that I hardly even knew what to do with her.  I just had her play through stuff that she had been half-heartedly working on.  It wasn't so good.  As much as I hate to say it, I could hardly stand to listen to her play.  

The whole time she was here, it was just dawning on me in full color that my goals in teaching vs the goals that probably most of my students have for taking lessons are not exactly equivelent.

I am coming from the standpoint of having already committed my life to this thing that I love, and have wanted others to share in what it is that makes it so beautiful.  I am wanting serious and committed students, who will practice and dig to figure things out and in the process experience art.

I have wanted to find the best way to teach, to cover all bases if possible right from the get-go, requiring patience and diligence on both the student's and teacher's part.  But to be fair, I don't think I am really doing that, and to be even more blunt, I don't think I even know how to begin to accomplish that.  So, what am I doing?

I realize that it is my responsibility as the teacher to help a student find their inspiration and love for the art, but I guess I realized that what I myself love about studying the piano and learning pieces, is not actually what I am trying to teach at all.  It may be the impetus, but not the actual substance.  My students will not actually understand what it is that I am trying to teach until years into their study, and I don't even really know how to motivate somebody to love the art and instrument enough to actually study for years.  I mostly just hope.  

Most people are just looking for a hobby, and I truly feel this is okay, but, it is not just a hobby for me anymore.  Maybe there's something to be said for that in and of itself.  

I guess I realized that I need to teach somebody how to begin having an interest, not just keep one going.  I don't actually know how to do this in anyway that could be described.  I need to teach parents how to see the importance of music, so as to help their child's development in it.  

It is no longer just about my own interest in the art and the instrument and in teaching.  I guess I need to learn how to be more selfless... huh, that's a big and somewhat shameful realization...

Furthermore....

[m1469]

I have read many postings here.  I have read a portion of what Bernhard has generously provided.  While I respect and appreciate and agree with most of it, I don't really know how to put it into action.

In one post within a thread discussing something like good and bad teachers, I can't seem to locate it, Bernhard talked about teachers who drive to student's houses and some other things that I can't remember right now.  On the brink of vommitting with shame, I am one of those teachers.  I feel that I have to be right now.   Although my business does not generate loads of income, my husband and I do actually depend on my working to be able to fully pay bills.

I am a teacher who feels as though I do not really know what I am doing, I have stopped attempting to make formal lesson plans because I don't know how to design a curriculum to follow, that will sufficiently teach my students what they need to know pianistically, musically and personally, all at the right time and in the correct order.   I feel if I can't figure out how to have them reach an end goal, and a lofty one at that, then I am not really following a plan anyway.   So, there that all is...

I want to implement other people's ideas, but especially Bernhard's way of teaching everyday (which I completely believe in), could never happen for me (it seems) on account of a general lack of interest, time and trust from students and parents.  

I feel all tangled up so I am going to stop writing now...


m1469

[Daevren]

I would love to teach piano.

Currently I am teaching someone theory/harmony and I could probably also teach rock/jazz guitar within a few years.

But I have a long way to go before I can be a piano teacher. Well I am still young...

The great thing about teaching is that for a muscian its one of the few reliable ways to make money. And compared to session work, playing pop music on parties it has a much better influence on your own musical skills.

Plus teaching itself is a good thing to do, sharing knowledge, inspiring the next generation, and also influencing other people with your musical ideas.

Teaching is a good way to have more influence on the development of music as an art form.

I also like teaching, when I read this forum I always thing "I would love it to become a real teacher".

[monk]

Hi m1469,

many of the things you write sound familiar to me.

Again and again I have to confront the fact that what I love in music, what interests me in music, is NOT what interests 99,9% of the other people, and will never interest.

From early on, the different intervals, harmonies and rhythms intrigued me; I tried to compose, to improvise; I again and again played through some sonata because of this awesome passage with an interesting modulation or so.

In MOST of my students, this love for the actual sounds and details is NOT there. And I'm mostly UNABLE to do anything about it.

They mostly learn piano because

- the parents tell them that it's good
- they hope to be able to perform in front of people and be applauded
- they heard some crappy, but popular piece and "also want to play that"

And they have mostly NO desire to gain general knowledge, general ability in music; they just want to be able to tinker something well-known with not too much errors.

Like a recorder player I heard in my vicinity: I heard her (improbably him :-)) play some hit melody from the radio. It was in no way more interesting than the tunes in typical recorder books; but I'm sure she had much more fun with this crappy refrain because it's popular. "Wow, I can play something that's on the radio! That's real, not this sh*t in the books of my teacher!"

This is how most people tick. They simply don't recognize real beauty in music or really interesting things, and they don't want to recognize it. For them the social aspect is most important, and really digging into the music - gaining knowledge; practicing regularly; playing unpopular, but good compositions; composing / improvising - is regarded as nerdy as other solitary hobbies like computer programming or assembling little airplane models. Only boys with glasses and pimples who never had a girlfriend do that.

Best Wishes,
Monk

[bernhard]

Not long ago, a student asked me what should he do with his life. University was looming large in the horizon and he had absolutely no idea of what general subject he should go for. A vocational test  - as it is usual in such cases – suggested that he had talents and interests in many areas, and whatever he did he would excel at.

So I asked him to spend the next week observing what was it that he was always doing. I told him that there was something in his life that was very compelling – not necessarily pleasurable or entertaining, but there would be something in his life that he could not help but do. Then I asked him to write down what he would stop doing if he won a huge prize in the lottery, so that money would never be an issue ever again. And I told him to come back and tell me in one week’s time.

The reason I teach, is simply because once upon a time I considered these two questions and took very seriously indeed the answer to them.

I have no memories of a time when I was not teaching. Even as a toddler I was teaching the other toddlers. Even when I did not know anything about a subject I had a compelling desire to explain it to others. However it took me many years for this simple and completely obvious truth to dawn on me – to the point that I spent many years working on things that were completely unrelated to teaching.

And if I did won the lottery I would still teach (albeit in a much different manner – piano camps in the Caribbean – Champagne and caviar on the waiting room – this sort of thing).

So when the student came back after one week, he had his answer, and he told me. And I told him: Excellent, this is what you should do. Now we have to figure out how you can make people pay you good money for it!

Here then is why I teach: Because this is what I do all the time anyway, so I might as well get paid for it. (Incidentally this gives a huge hint for those who entertain ideas of becoming concert pianists: is that what you are always doing? Performing for people? If performing is a dreadful occurrence in your life, then sorry, but you are in the domain of fantasy and either you are never going to make it, or if you do make it your life will be miserable and not worth living).

Now for my inspirational words.

If you were a doctor, would you only treat the healthy? If you were a psychiatrist/psychologist/psychotherapist, would you only hale the “normal”?

Having taught for many years in different circumstances, I came to the conclusion that in a class there will be three categories of students:

1.      The “geniuses”, people so disciplined and focused and talented that they will excel in whatever subject they apply themselves to, usually not because of the teacher but more often than not, in spite of him/her. Truly, they do not need a teacher to teach them anything, but a teacher can be very helpful to show them that the subject exists. Such a student may have a natural technique, but a teacher can be invaluable in introducing them to challenging repertory that they do no know exist, for instance. A lot of teachers fantasise about only having this sort of student. In fact some teachers will only accept this sort of student quite simply because they are less work. This is the equivalent of a medical doctor only accepting patients that are in perfect health and them bragging about his healing prowess (“Just look a t may patients! They are never sick”).

2.      Then you have the average student, who is willing to follow instructions, and by hard work and by following your instructions, they excel. However without your teaching they would not go very far. This is a very satisfying sort of student. You can see their progress. You can see how much of that progress is your doing. And they see it too, and they are appreciative and grateful. They are the ones who spread the word about you and get you new students.

3.      Finally you have the students from hell. They are there because they are being forced to. They are opinionated, yet ignorant.  They show no appreciation for your efforts. They are never grateful. They find everything boring. You dread their lessons. You know they are going to sap your energy and deeply depress ad demoralise you. They have no talent and yet they believe they are little Mozarts. If it wasn’t for you pushing and cajoling they would never put a minute of practice in the month. They are the mythical Sysiphus stone. You roll them up the hill every lesson, just to see them roll back again during the week. And yet these are the students that need you the most. Because without you they will never amount to anything, even though they may never realise it. As a teacher, this is actually your job: to help these impossible cases. So roll your sleeves and relish it. (Not very inspirational, I know, but hey, I tried!)



Post-scriptum: I started this post about two days ago, and got side-tracked. Then this morning I read Swan’s beautiful post, and I thought I had nothing to add with what I had written above – she had basically said it all. On the other hand I was amazed at how much of what she said was exactly what I said. So I decided to post it after all. Then I just read your replies. So I will post this and get back to you.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[monk]

Hi Bernhard,

I agree with you, except that what you call "average student" is in my experience a rare case.
I have mostly "students from hell", and that seems to be the average.

The halfway talented students almost always go to the well-known classical teachers. Most people who come to me think that, because I am mainly a jazz/rock/pop pianist, they don't need to practice so much and do not need to practice technique or classical pieces. In fact, I have many students who were dissatisfied with "classical" lessons and who were searching for another style to play. Unfortunately they mostly are lazy and un-dedicated.

And the little children often are not supervised enough by their parents when practicing at home. So they often come to the lessons, not having practiced, sometimes even not remembering what they were assigned or having "forgotten" their assignment booklet in which I exactly notate the things they have to practice. The parents often don't look into the booklet, and if they don't understand something or problems occur, they NEVER call me, although I encourage that.

Best Wishes,
Monk

[bernhard]

Hi Bernhard,

I agree with you, except that what you call "average student" is in my experience a rare case.
I have mostly "students from hell", and that seems to be the average.

I agree completely with you. By average I did not mean numbers, but average talent.

You are right, the students from hell far outnumber all others.

[bernhard]

Ok. I will give you some very practical and down to earth advice now. I will show you the ropes and how to get there.

1.      If you want to adopt my way of having daily  lessons (or any other way that is different from what you are doing right now), you must not postpone it. You must start immediately. But how are you going to do that? By not accepting any new student unless they are prepared to accept your new policies Keep your old students in whatever system you have them now – I understand you cannot afford to loose them – But do not accept any new student unless it is under the new system. You must be firm on this one, and I know it is going to be very difficult, especially when it looks like we are losing students and have no one replacing them. I was exactly in the same situation once upon a time. I could not afford to lose students, and yet I could not go on with the usual lesson format anymore – it was killing me.

So every new enquiry I got I would send my new information just to see it turned down. It took almost two years for one student to decide to go for it. I could tell you that during these two years I had doubts, but that is not really true. The truth is that I could not care less, because I had concluded that a student/parent who does not want to abide by a simple, logical and efficient policy was going to be trouble.

Take for instance my simple requirement that lessons be paid monthly, all months of the year in advance. Anyone who does not accept these simple terms will try to take me for a ride. So I do not care for this kind of student. So my policy became a sieve to separate the gold from the shaft. Will you loose many new students? Undoubtedly – 90% of the people who make enquiries about my course never come back. But it is my firm belief that I am better off without them.

So, my situation was that I was ladled with a bunch of losers whom I could not afford to loose. But there was no reason for me to keep accepting them. So one particular day – after a similar experience to yours – I decided I had enough. I got home (I was pretty pissed off – you see I don’t get depressed – I get mad!) and made a new policy and laid down the law exactly as I wanted it. Since I own my business that is my prerogative! I will do whatever I want, and if people don’t like it, no one forces them to nave lessons with me. That day I looked at that first policy (which has been much modified over the years) and I solemnly promised myself that from now on I would only accept students who would abide by it.

2.      I was so sure that it would work, that I knew that all I needed was one single student. I waited for two years. Then I got two students. A six year-old Chinese boy (who spoke almost no English) whose parents were in the UK for 18 months only. They could not find any teacher who would take him because he would be going away soon, and all other teachers wanted a long term commitment. I jumped at that opportunity, because I knew what I could do to him in 18 months if the parents would just let me. As luck would have it, they did let me. And although my policy stated 15 minute lessons every day, I had too much at stake, so I gave him about one hour everyday. And I did something really important: I videotaped him every 3 months. The boy was no prodigy, but he was very sweet and obedient. Mother was also a great help, staying through the lessons and repeating what we had done at the lesson everyday after I left. That videotape made all the difference – more about that in a minute. This was 12 years ago, and now that boy is Yundi li. He he, just joking! ;D Couldn’t resist it.

The second student I got, exactly at the same time was an old guy, retired in his 60s. He had a peculiar problem: no short-term memory. He could remember quotes from books, poetry from 30 years ago, his whole history and the history of his family, but anything he learned today was completely gone by tomorrow. I taught him for 5 years. It was the toughest assignment of my whole life. I would go to his house (if he left the house he could not find his way back – he forgot), and teach him every day for two hours early in the morning. The next day I would knock at his door and he would not know who I was. We spend almost a year for him to simply be able to play a C major scale over one octave. He could not remember the notes or the fingering. Every morning I would have to repeat everything again. But being the kind of guy I am, I would devise all sorts of ways to jolt his memory. His sister was a retired piano teacher, and she did not take me seriously. But after five years, he was playing (both reading and from memory):

Hammerschmidt – Sarabande
Hook – Gavotte in C op. 81 no. 3
Turk – Little Waltz
Pamela Wedgewood – Pluto
Anon. – Adagio (a Baroque piece)
Lushtak – running and skipping
Mike Cornick – Mellow fellow
Howard Skempton – Saltaire Melody
Shostakovitch – Lullaby
Schumann – Of Strange lands and people
Mozart – Variations ah je vous dirais je maman – theme, variations 1 and 2
Burgmuller - Innocence
Grieg – Arietta
Leopold Mozart (form the Nannerl book) Allegro
Chopin – Prelude Op. 28 no. 7
Chopin – Waltz in Aminor (Op. posth.)
Schumann - Traumerei
Mendelssohn – Song without words op. 19 no. 1

(Progressive order of difficulty)

His sister was suitalbly gobsmacked, which pleased me no end.

But I am digressing.

The point is, after I had these two students everything changed. The Chinese boy after 6 months was playing grade 4 pieces, and when he played some of the stuff at his school no one could believe he had been learning the piano for only six months (there were girls there that had been learning for 6 – 7 years and could not play the stuff he was playing).

That is when it all started. In those days I made a point of interviewing the parents. I was dying for new students, things were really tough, but it was very important to give the impression of success. My general attitude was polite but the undertones were that I couldn’t really care less if the parents wanted to enrol my services or not.

In the interview I would open a drawer full of video tapes, pick one randomly and say, “here is one of my students”. It was the Chinese boy tape (the only tape in the drawer that had any piano he he). But I was the only one who knew that. Any one who saw that tape was hooked. It was that simple.

3.      In the meantime, as I started enrolling more and more students on the new method, I started getting rid of the losers. It was simple. I offered them a choice: they could be transferred to the new system, or they could look for another teacher.

I started with my very worst students, the ones I never wanted to see again, and bit by bit (it took about three years) everyone was in the new method. Because it was (is) such a break from the traditional way, it also meant that suddenly I was offering something that no other teacher was offering. And because of the way it goes, I would accept anyone irrespective of talent, because I don’t believe in talent anyway. Or let us say that I believe in talent for hard work.

4.      I have never advertised. All my students came through word of mouth.

5.      I am completely professional. My fees are not for discussion, my methods are not up for discussion, I am the supreme authority. I make all this abundantly clear (my information sheet has 14 pages).

6.      I always teach from home now for the simple reason that I do not have time to go to students houses.

7.      I have never used methods. My goal is always the piece the student wants to learn, and I will use any artifice/subterfuge at my disposal to get the student there. Most of them I learned myself as I was teaching. I am never afraid to try new things, and I will shamelessly use my students as guinea pigs. What works I keep, what does not I throw away. If a student wants to do an exam, he must be completely prepared by the enrolment date (usually 2 months before the actual exam). If s/he is not I will not enrol him/her. Why should I go through 2 months of stress and extra lessons? I will do my best to have the student ready on time, but they must do their part, after all they have two full years to learn a bunch of scales and three pieces. I give them homework, CDs, articles to read detailing how to learn new pieces, the whole package. And I expect them to work hard at it, and usually they do. If they don’t they must go back to daily lessons (they hate this so much that they soon mend their ways). Yet most of my students are the mythical Sysiphus stone. I am constantly carry them up the hill. I dream of the day when they will climb that hill by themselves. When they do I get rid of them: they are not the ones who need me now.

I hope this helps, and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have,

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Swan]

m1469, I really feel for you at the moment.  

My teaching degree to a large extent was a waste of time, but I remember one particular tute dealing with 'what are you going to do when your ideals don't work'.  I thought, what do you mean, they don't work, of course they'll work!

One of my ideals was to never use writing as a form of punishment.  Well, first year as a teacher, and what did I do, used writing as a form of punishment  It worked so well!

I was disappointed and thought, what I want to achieve won't work, and resorted to what was 'easy'.

Remember those lucky starfish who were thrown back into the ocean.  Well the truth is, most of them died from exhuastion, and others were eaten by sharks!  But it didn't stop the men from throwing them back into the ocean.

Then, toward the end of the lesson, to my surprise the other sister shows up afterall.

Yes, human beings can be perplexing.  It won't be the last time that one of them does something to make you want to burst into tears, scream or quit.

What has helped me is 'stepping away' from the emotion and stop trying to work out why people do the things they do.  I just focus on what I can do.  Bend over, pick up a starfish and throw it into the ocean!

 she had no idea why she was there, nor did I and she seemed to be on the brink of tears the entire time

is my responsibility as the teacher to help a student find their inspiration and love for the art,

I am a person before I'm a 'teacher, and the child/adult is a person before they're a student'.  You mentioned the word love.  I believe it's important to first show love of people, then of music, then of piano.

If a young person came to me and were on the brink of tears, then a part of striving for 'excellence' in my 'job' would be first of all to empathise, comfort, show compassion to the person.  It may mean no piano playing at all!  If you can do this (just like scales, takes practise to get it right), then anger, frustration and disillusionment disipates.  Would you then need to feel guilty about taking their money?  Absolutely not!  You've probably given the child the most important lesson of their life - that there are compassionate caring adults in a world  - as you've alluded to - that is not full of them!  Hopefully the child remembers this and is something that he/she would wish to emulate.  You may never see this child again, they may never sit at a piano again and they may grow up to be a grannie beating junkie!  But you did what you could - your threw the starfish back into the ocean.

I have read a portion of what Bernhard has generously provided.  While I respect and appreciate and agree with most of it, I don't really know how to put it into action.

Patience, trial and error, lots of mistakes, getting it wrong, trying other things, seeing what works and what doesn't.  The ole saying "Rome wasn't built in a day" has stuck around for a reason.

Bernhard talked about teachers who drive to student's houses and some other things that I can't remember right now.  On the brink of vommitting with shame, I am one of those teachers.

It's so unfair to compare yourself with Bernhard who's already had years of the 'experimenting, stuff ups, things gone wrong, not working," stage.  He's in a place now where what he does works for him and gives him a sense of satisfaction.

We are all different.  Trying to implement Bernhard's exact way of doing things just won't work.  You don't have the same personality, the same presense (men seem to have a natural 'air of authority - I saw that in schools), the same circumstances, the same resources.

All you can do is take the ideas you like and adapt them to suit you.  Try something, and if it doesn't work with one student, try it with the next student and so on.  If you've given it a fair testing, and it doesn't work, move on to something else, or try it in a different way.

I greatly admire and respect Bernhard's 'every day lessons', but it's something I haven't tried because it's not the way I want to do things.  It doesnt mean I'm a lousey teacher.  If you don't do things Bernhard's way, it doens't mean you're a lousey teacher.  The fact is, we are all bending over, pickng up those star fish and throwing them into the ocean.  

m1469 I've written some articles that may be of some help to you.  They're not meant to be definitive, just food for thought.  

TEN WAYS FOR TEACHERS TO REMAIN MOTIVATED
https://pianoeducation.org/pnotmo10.html

TOP TEN QUALITIES OF A PIANO TEACHER
https://pianoeducation.org/pnotttea.html

PLANNING A CAREER IN MUSIC TEACHING
https://pianoeducation.org/pnotplan.html

All the best m1469 and keep us 'posted'.  

[Swan]

They simply don't recognize real beauty in music or really interesting things, and they don't want to recognize it.

Very true in too many cases.  BUT!   it shouldn't stop us from striving to help them find the beauty, helping them develop a discerning sense of style and all those other warm fuzzy things we wish for them.

I had an experience just yesterday where I had to 'step away from the emotion'  of a one of those   parents, and focus on what I could do about a situation.

I spent over an hour arranging a 'pop' song on finale (yes, originally with words to be sung - I know how sensitive some of you are about the word 'song') for a student who's parent thinks they're losing interest because of the repertoire she's been given.  This particular song was mentioned as a favourite, so I arranged a version that we can both be happy with.  If it doesn't work, I'll try something else, and if that doesn't work, then I'll wish the girl all the best and hope she enjoys whatever it is she wishes to do with her time... if she decides that playing the piano is not for her .. at this particular time in life.  I quit the piano three times while I was growing up  

[bernhard]

m1469:

Here are some things that Swan said above, and which I would like to comment further.

It's so unfair to compare yourself with Bernhard who's already had years of the 'experimenting, stuff ups, things gone wrong, not working," stage.  He's in a place now where what he does works for him and gives him a sense of satisfaction.

We are all different.  Trying to implement Bernhard's exact way of doing things just won't work.  You don't have the same personality, the same presense (men seem to have a natural 'air of authority - I saw that in schools), the same circumstances, the same resources.

Swan is absolutely right, and I don’t want to give you the impression that I am in the business of creating clones (This has already been arranged he he ).

You must draw your own policy, your own “ideal” way of teaching and implement it. And none of it is written in stone. If it is not working, change it (we can never predict all of the unintended consequences of our most brilliant ideas). Some teachers love games (of the kind you can find in Michio Yurko’s “Music mind games”). I tried that approach myself but I could not do it without a great effort. Such a great effort actually, that is impaired my ability as a teacher. Yet her ideas are brilliant, and some teachers will thrive on them and develop exceedingly excellent teaching environments. I love some of Susuki’s ideas, but I found that I could not work with one of the basic ones, which is to delay sight reading. Some Susuki students will go for up to two years learning by ear before they start sight-reading. I can appreciate the logic, I can appreciate that some teachers adapt well to it and get superlative results. But when I tried it my results were mediocre, partly because I love scores. It was driving me up the wall not to be able to do score work (which I value highly). So now I start building up to reading skills from the very first lesson. This is not a comment on Susuki, it is a comment on me. Likewise, chances are that no matter how much you may like the ideas behind my way of teaching, they will not work as well for you (or for anyone else) without modifying them to suit your personality.

Incidentally this is one of the reasons I don’t buy this idea of “Russian School” or “French school”, etc. Not only I am too much of a buffet eater, as everyone has to adapt whatever methodology there is to their own personalities. I think of it pretty much as writing. The words may be the same, but everyone picks and chooses their favorites, and everyone strings them together differently (otherwise how would I be able to spot straightaway all those members who come back under different names he he ).

So, yes, Swan is very correct and you should listen to her when she says:

All you can do is take the ideas you like and adapt them to suit you.  Try something, and if it doesn't work with one student, try it with the next student and so on.  If you've given it a fair testing, and it doesn't work, move on to something else, or try it in a different way.

 

Finally,

I greatly admire and respect Bernhard's 'every day lessons', but it's something I haven't tried because it's not the way I want to do things.  It doesnt mean I'm a lousey teacher.  If you don't do things Bernhard's way, it doens't mean you're a lousey teacher.  The fact is, we are all bending over, pickng up those star fish and throwing them into the ocean.  

Exactly. This is the absolutely correct attitude (especially the part about admiration and respect, he he ). Consider everything others and I write as suggestions, things to try out so you can figure out if they work for you and for your students (this is also important – you yourself may think you found the perfect method to suit you personally, but what good is it if does not suit the students?)

Now I have to run, some starfishes are calling for me.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[m1469]

wow!  Okay, I feel less tangled now.  There is a lot to for me to draw from in what you guys/gals have graciously offered, Thank you!

Yes, I do see the need to suit my own studio as I see fit with suggestions that I have been given and can read about.  Sometimes I just get so tangled up thinking that I will spend so much time trying to figure out how to teach that it will be years and years before I actually get to the real teaching.  Too much thinking sometimes.

I will be doing some digesting of what you have offered me and commented on.   Having the opportunity to communicate with people like you has helped me to realize, remember, and learn some very important things.  I know that there will be growth out of it  , which is ultimately what matters most to me.

I would just like to conclude this post by saying that I don't mean to sound as though I hate teaching, that I have all horrible students and that I can't put up with the ups and downs of it all.  Mostly, I have just been realizing with much clarity, that it is not going as well as I know it could, although I do believe there are some positive things happening.  And, sometimes I just need help figuring out how to get things moving, and in the "right" direction none-the-less.

Thanks to you, I have a new sense of inspiration and hope.  I feel more sure about why I am teaching, and feel more capable of figuring out how to improve on what has already been started.

with much appreciation,

m1469

[Swan]

I don't mean to sound as though I hate teaching, that I have all horrible students and that I can't put up with the ups and downs of it all.  

You don't come across that way at all!  You sound like a caring dedicated person who wants to do the best thing for her students, her family and herself.  The world could use more people like you m1469!  Keep up the good work, and remember we all have days like you had, and we're still around to talk about it.  

[jeff]

The second student I got, exactly at the same time was an old guy, retired in his 60s. He had a peculiar problem: no short-term memory. He could remember quotes from books, poetry from 30 years ago, his whole history and the history of his family, but anything he learned today was completely gone by tomorrow. I taught him for 5 years. It was the toughest assignment of my whole life. I would go to his house (if he left the house he could not find his way back – he forgot), and teach him every day for two hours early in the morning. The next day I would knock at his door and he would not know who I was. We spend almost a year for him to simply be able to play a C major scale over one octave. He could not remember the notes or the fingering. Every morning I would have to repeat everything again. But being the kind of guy I am, I would devise all sorts of ways to jolt his memory. His sister was a retired piano teacher, and she did not take me seriously. But after five years, he was playing (both reading and from memory):

Hammerschmidt – Sarabande
Hook – Gavotte in C op. 81 no. 3
Turk – Little Waltz
Pamela Wedgewood – Pluto
Anon. – Adagio (a Baroque piece)
Lushtak – running and skipping
Mike Cornick – Mellow fellow
Howard Skempton – Saltaire Melody
Shostakovitch – Lullaby
Schumann – Of Strange lands and people
Mozart – Variations ah je vous dirais je maman – theme, variations 1 and 2
Burgmuller - Innocence
Grieg – Arietta
Leopold Mozart (form the Nannerl book) Allegro
Chopin – Prelude Op. 28 no. 7
Chopin – Waltz in Aminor (Op. posth.)
Schumann - Traumerei
Mendelssohn – Song without words op. 19 no. 1

(Progressive order of difficulty)

His sister was suitalbly gobsmacked, which pleased me no end.

i would love to hear more about the ways you were able to work around his problem, and teach him to play

[bernhard]

i would love to hear more about the ways you were able to work around his problem, and teach him to play

The pragmatical theory of memory is pretty simple and consists of just a few principles:

1.      Think about a refrigerator. You go out, you buy some food, you put it into the refrigerator, when you are hungry you go to the refrigerator and take it out. So there are three distinct processes here: getting the food, storing the food, retrieving the food. It does not matter how good you are at storing and retrieving food if never bought it in the first place. It does not matter how good you are at buying and storing food, if you never go to the refrigerator to retrieve it. Finally, it doesn’t matter how good you are at buying and retrieving food if you never store it in the first place. So it is with memory. Most people fail to distinguish between these three processes: getting the information, storing the information and retrieving the information. A lot of people complain of memory problems meaning: “I can’t recall this and that”, when the real problem maybe that they never gathered the information in the first place or bothered with storing it. No wonder they cannot recall it. Each of the three stage requires specific training and technique to work at its most efficient. Unfortunately these are never formally taught and systematically practised. Most people expect memory to develop somehow “naturally”. So by the time you are old enough to realise all this, most of your memory strategies are already pretty much solidified and working at the unconscious level. And not surprisingly these strategies ate terribly inefficient at best and completely wrong at worst. So my first task with this particular student was to figure out where was the problem: at the gathering of information level, at the storage level or at the retrieval level. It turned out he was pretty messed up on the three levels, but the real problem was at the storage level. He could recall things all right (although he could be better at it), but the things were not there in the first place. More about this in a moment.

2.      Memory works by association. If you have to remember a supermarket list (toilet roll, beans, noodles, onions, olives, garlic, apples, butter and eggs), repeating it over and over is a terribly inefficient way to go about it and you will almost sure botch it. A much better way is to associate each item in the list to the next, so that recalling one will recall the other. The process of association will also take care of the storage stage. Now before I go onto show you how to do it, there is another important principle when using associations. They do not have to be logical, but they must be meaningful, they must be outrageous, and the more senses you can add to your mental representation the better you will remember it. So start by imagining a supermarket all built up of toilet rolls. Not bricks and concrete, but toilet rolls. As you get to the supermarket, a giant toilet roll unrolls like a red carpet to welcome you. You must “visualise” all this. Then add the sound of the toilet roll unrolling. Make the sound deafening (it is a giant toilet roll, remember?) and actually smell the fragrant smell of the toilet roll (make it a perfumed brand – if you prefer and you have a nasty turn of mind, make it used toilet roll with not so fragrant smell he he) As you step on the toilet roll to enter the supermarket, “feel” how soft it is. Now, as you are about to enter the supermarket, Mr Bean comes to welcome you. Being Mr. Bean, he offers you as a welcome gift a dish of beans. The dish is hot, so he is doing all sorts of antics to keep himself from burning his hands. As you look inside the dish, instead of beans there are noodles. Mr Bean screams at the top of his voice “Now I am Mr. Noodles” Then everyone in the supermarket shouts: “No, you are Mr. Onion!” At which point his head turns into an giant onion. A thin lady cartoon-like comes and says, come on, Mr. Onion, I will help you to the onion shelf. It is Olive Oil (Popeye’s girlfriend). She does not have eyes, instead she has two black olives in their place. And her necklace is actually made of green olives stringed together. She pushes Mr. Onion through a giant pitted olive – like a tunnel and on the other side is the garlic section of the supermarket. There is nothing there but garlic huge mountains of garlic, shelf after shelf filled with garlic. Olive says: Oh no, I will have a terrible breath tomorrow. I know just what you need, says Mr. Onion: Apples are good for it. And his giant onion head morphs into a giant red apple. Olive then starts eating his apple head. The noise of her chewing the crunchy apple is pretty deafening. Mr. Bean-Onion-Apple is not happy with this at all, and Butt-heads Olive (Butt-heads=butter) She falls to the floor, but does not hurt herself because the floor is actually made of creamy, soft butter. Everyone is walking slowly because their feet get stuck into the butter. Some people are actually slowly sinking into the butter as in quicksand. It turns out that this is no supermarket at all. Everyone has been tricked into walking in the Giant’s frying pan. It was a scam from the Giant. “Eggcellent” he shouts, and to everyone’s horror he cracks three giant eggs into the pan on top of everyone, and everyone gets emmeshed in gooey egg.

You can see several principles at work here. Since you have to create the associations, you must concentrate and “take in” the ingredients of the list. This “focusing” on each item takes care of the storage process. The association itself is completely absurd, and it is this very absurdity that makes it memorable. So make it bigger (giant toilet roll, giant onion), make it louder (Mr. Bean screaming, supermarket employees shouting), make it brighter (bright red garlics) make it wrong (noodles instead of beans in the dish, red garlics), make it crazy (giant frying pan). If you do, it will be very memorable, since it is the strange, crazy stuff that we remember the best. It shouldn’t take you more than a couple of minutes to come up with such a little story consisting of “linked associations”. And if you start soign this systematically, very soon the whole process becomes subconscious and you will do it automatically without having to think about it. In fact I am sure that you already do it to a certain extent. Just observe yourself carefully next time you try to remember something.

In any case, as you arrive at the supermarket, just looking at the supermarket will bring to your mind the image of toilet rolls. So this is the first thing you must buy. The toilet roll image itself will bring up Mr. Bean: beans is your next item. Mr. Bean will bring up by association the noodles (there is your next item). Mr.Bean shouting noodles brings to mind the supermarket people shouting onions – so there is your next item. Onions mean Olive which brings you to garlic, which brings you to butter and finally to eggs. So one item leads forcibly into the other through association.

The point is, everyone does that to a certain extent because that is how memory works. But because no one gives it any thought, the whole process is unconscious and therefore not as efficient as it could be.

Recently Rohansahi posted a very interesting thread, where famous pianist and teacher Margarita Fyodorova explains how she memorised music (she had a prodigious memory):

“[…] I have observed her at work in rehearsal as she committed new material to memory in less than an hour. I asked her how she did this. “motivically”, she replied. For every motive has its own unique characteristics, which she likens to a human face. Thus does she exercise her memory, proceeding at first in fragments which she then combines into progressively large units. She commits to her psyche every melismatic contour, every shadowy recess, and efflorescent protrusion, as she illuminates nuance”.

The guy who wrote this (John Bell Young) has not tried to do it. He is so much in awe of his teacher that he probably believes that only a Russian educated from birth in the Russian School can do such a feat. So his description is next to useless. Motifs? Little faces? Melismatic contours? Most people will read this account and conclude with Mr. Bell that we might as well give up. His description is the description of an outsider: he has note gained admission to this particular club yet.

But I hope to have shown with the supermarket example that what Fyodorova is doing is quite pedestrian. There is nothing particularly Russian about it. Any human being that is not mentally impaired, can do the same (and many mentally impaired humans – as was the case with my student – can be helped by it). What she is doing is perfectly simple: she is breaking the piece into motives – the gathering of information stage  - the equivalent of compiling a supermarket list. Then she sits down and creates absurd associations between the motives (linking musical motives to faces is pretty absurd) – the storage phase. Finally she recalls the faces and the motives come by association, all beautifully linked. The point here is that there is nothing awesome about this. Anyone can do it. And there is no reason to link motives to faces. You might as well link them to car brands or flowers. Anything absurd enough to make them memorable

Of course this is just the tip of the iceberg, and if you are really interested in this, I urge you to get one of the many memory training books in the market (I particularly like “The memory book” by Harry Lorayne), or read some of the threads about memory where I say more.

But now we should have enough of a background so that I can answer your question.

would love to hear more about the ways you were able to work around his problem, and teach him to play

The ways were simple:

1.      Patience, amazing patience. That means that I could not take for granted that what I taught in the past lesson would have been learned. I had to prepare myself to teach each lesson as if it was the first lesson. My main strategy was to copy him. To him, every time he saw me was as if I was a new teacher. I paid him in kind, and every time I saw him I pretended he was ane w student having his first lesson. That was the difficult step.

2.      Repetition. Huge amounts of repetition.

3.      Creating associations for him, going over the associations over and over again, every day.

4.      Addressing the same piece/passage from every conceivable angle possible. For instance, you can look at a C major scale as a stair made of unequal steps that go from a lower to a higher place. You can look at it as a sequence of white notes where no white note is missed and not black note is present. You can look at the intervals. You can look at it as a hierarchy of degrees (tonic, supertonic, mediant, etc.) You can look at it as a chord originator. You can look at it as finger exercise in passing the thumb. You can look at it as two independent tetrachords. You can look at it as a source of anagrams, twinkle twinkle little star being one of many possible anagrams of C major. You can improvise by just using the C major scale notes. You can limit it to one octave, or you can use all octaves of the piano. Working at the scale at the piano, away from the piano, writing it down both in paper (letters) and in music paper (notes). You get the idea.

5.      It helped a lot that he knew exactly what pieces he wanted to play, so we had a very clear goal and I could organise the course accordingly.

6.      I am not teaching him anymore, since he has moved to France, but I hear he continues to play the piano, and by following the instructions I gave him (all in writing) he is able to be more independent of a teacher and therefore he now has “normal” lessons.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Swan]

(otherwise how would I be able to spot straightaway all those members who come back under different names he he  ).

...and things like this ^ is a part of the reason I came back.

Inspiring stuff Bernhard!

[bernhard]

...and things like this ^ is a part of the reason I came back.

Inspiring stuff Bernhard!

[m1469]

Hello, I just wanted to let you know what is happening right now.

First off, this conversation was a really good one for me and has given me a little push in a different direction than how my studio had been going.

Since I started this thread there have already been a few changes...

I am only driving to student's houses on one day, and to only three houses total.

I am raising my rates a little, and will be changing my payment policies shortly.

I will be adopting Bernhard's everyday lessons as well as teaching courses vs individual lessons ASAP, but plan to spend this year gearing toward it.  Right now, I plan to give an option to people when they call, but until I start knowing what I would be doing more, I have a feeling I won't be very convincing as to them choosing the everyday thing.  I will get there though.

I have focused my own life more so as to allow more time spent on collecting data (including suggestions from this forum) to help my studio, developing a skeleten curriculum as a guide, researching repertoire, research in general, and thinking more on each individual student and their individual needs.

Actually, I am really excited!!!

Again, thanks to all

m1469

[Guirlandes]

.

[Guirlandes]

BERNHARD wrote:
Recently Rohansahi posted a very interesting thread, where famous pianist and teacher Margarita Fyodorova explains how she memorised music (she had a prodigious memory):

“[…] I have observed her at work in rehearsal as she committed new material to memory in less than an hour. I asked her how she did this. “motivically”, she replied. For every motive has its own unique characteristics, which she likens to a human face. Thus does she exercise her memory, proceeding at first in fragments which she then combines into progressively large units. She commits to her psyche every melismatic contour, every shadowy recess, and efflorescent protrusion, as she illuminates nuance”.

The guy who wrote this (John Bell Young) has not tried to do it. He is so much in awe of his teacher that he probably believes that only a Russian educated from birth in the Russian School can do such a feat. So his description is next to useless. Motifs? Little faces? Melismatic contours? Most people will read this account and conclude with Mr. Bell that we might as well give up. His description is the description of an outsider: he has note gained admission to this particular club yet.

<p>
JBY responds: 

I just came across this enormously stupid  response to my article on Intonatsiia,--in fact, I don't even believe Bernard, whoever he is, has even read it. At least one person who read it, though,  correctly pointed out intonatsiia concerns essentially what goes on between the notes. But this fellow, Bernard is a bit more than a little out of the loop. First, as the best of my colleagues so often say, those who cannot play, cannot teach. Sorry, but it's true. So until I hear Bernard play I have no idea if he can teach or not.  If he refuses to disclose his playing, then he has something to hide. 

Mr Bernhard would be well advised to know that I am in awe of no one, least of all his flibidty-gibity faux-methodology which appears to have nothing substantial to back it up in the household of musicology, theory, or practice, least of all in any rigorous research, publications, or any recordings or performances of his own   Where is the proof of his authority on anything musical? What public record is there of it? Has anyone ever heard this man play so much as a scale?  Let him submit proof of his expertise aside from all the talk of refrigerators and toilet paper -- a grotesque metaphor if ever there was one.   Until then, I will presume he is little more than an academic and amateur de musique. I found the refrigerator metaphor as crude as  it was pointless, though ideal for those who are as out of shape physically and mentally as they are musically. -- a kind of artistic obesity if you will; it all sounds to me  to me like  the wishful thinking of a fat man.

Bernhard 's own reading skills beg the question; he cannot even get my name right. it's Young, not Bell, which is  my middle name.  Clearly Mr Bernard is also unfamiliar with my background; I lived  studied, lectured, and performed in Russia for many years, and am fluent in the language since childhood. I have also  had my papers published in Russia, and am frequently on national radio and television there. I have long since earned the  respect of my colleagues and the media there, and the Russian muscial community in the west as well, not to mention the Russian public. So you see,  I am hardly an outsider there, but in fact a known and  public  figure. As my background and the public record proves, including the collected body of my work, I am a known  authority on Russian music and history, its attendant theories and methodologies, and its aesthetic agenda(s) of the last 400 years. I refer Bernard to my well known  paper on Scriabin, "Scriabin Defended Against His Devotees: A Critique of the Russian Composer in the Context of Russian History, Religion and Culture",   for example, or my no less  authoratative critique of Mussorgsky's Khovanschina, published in its abridged version by Opera News a few years ago.   Bernard would be well advised to read these, as he might  actually learn something, rather than spouting off at the mouth, pretending to things about which he obviously knows  absooutely nothing, and on which he  has zero authority.

On the contrary, it is Bernhard himself who is the outsider in matters of Russian  musical history and theory. Who the hell has ever heard of him, in Russia or anywhere else for that matter? If it is a club, trust me, Bernard couldn't gain admittance for any price, as he is insufficiently qualified. I earned my place and the respect of the Russians by the quality and body of my  work, and hard work it was. What has Bernard ever done? He is a. nobody, a nichelovek. And an impertinent nobody at that.  So l it's time to put this stupid putz in his place.

Let  me point out, too, for the record, that  the words that Bernhard atttributes to me are in fact those of Fyodorova herself; it is she who describes her experience in memory this way,as contours, etc;  those are her words, not mine. Of course,  had Bernhard taken the time to read the article, he would also have  observed more than one reference to the  well known published theoretical works on the subject of intonatiia, by Russian scholars, that I cite. Of course, as these are not translated, he would be unable to discern a thing about them,  or read them. Well,  let Bernard find the time and discipline to  learn Russian, as I have for 40 years, and then perhaps he can speak to me about it.  Of all the common detritus squandered by the evident wanabe Bernard, let me also point out for the record that my memory works just fine. He presumes I cannot memorize in this way . Of course I can! How do you think it is that I have committed to memory an enormous repertoire , much of  it unique that had never been performed or recorded until I came along , such as the entire  musical canon of Nietzsche, which was hardly an easy feat, considering the awkwardness of the writing, and other obsucre composers?   

And let's not forget that I have committed to memory all of the extant works of my specific area of authority,  Scriabin.  I doubt seriously that  the wannabe Bernard could so much as memorize a few  bars of Scriabin's 7th sonata without having a stroke. Beyond that, I play just about everything by every major composer..  So yes,   I know how to memorize, thank you very much, and  a great deal better than Bernard could ever hope to.  Indeed, Bernhard, for $500 an hour, I will be happy to teach you  a thing or two, though since I have never heard of you, and insoffar as you have absolutely no track record whatsoever in the world  of musical commerce, on recording,  in published writings by major media and publishing houses, or wUntil then, keep you mouth shut. Your opipnons are meaningless, your advice to those who could really stand to learn something, shallow.   I have my  doubts as to how much  you could even retain.

By the way, is Bernhard in physical  shape, or obese, as I suspect?  Has anyone ever seen this man? This is not a comment made lightly; it would tell me a great deal about him, and the kind of discipline he is capable of, if any. Fat people who don't have to be that way disgust me. They have no discipline.  Have you let your body become as flabby and ineffective  as your mind, Bernhard? Is that why you engage in all the pompous and jealous innuendos, to make your self feel pumped up? Hmm???  I wonder. Have a look at my body sometime, Bernhard, and eat your heart out, old man.   I stay in top shape, in every way: physically, intellectually,  artistically.  Want to see a recent picture? You have a better chance of winning the national lottery than getting into the kind of shape I am.  I could throw you a mile off with my littel finger alone. Indeed, the same digit at the piano would put all ten of your fingers to shame in a New York minute --  that I have been  able to do since I was a kid, I've never had any substantial physical problems at the paino --  but that's my privilege and joy as  a virtuoso, isn't it?  Fortunately, I don't have biceps for brains, as Bernard evidently does., but an exceptionally cultivated intelligence. No, indeed, my sculpted muscles also the result of hard work, are  in all the right places where they really belong: on my body.

BERNHARD  (tiresome) again:
But I hope to have shown with the supermarket example that what Fyodorova is doing is quite pedestrian. There is nothing particularly Russian about it. Any human being that is not mentally impaired, can do the same (and many mentally impaired humans – as was the case with my student – can be helped by it). What she is doing is perfectly simple: she is breaking the piece into motives – the gathering of information stage  - the equivalent of compiling a supermarket list. Then she sits down and creates absurd associations between the motives (linking musical motives to faces is pretty absurd) –

JBY responds:
Well it may be abusurd to Bernhard, but that is how Madame Fyodorova, a great pianist describes it. Look here,  there is no doubt that Fyodorova is a  far greater teacher than Bernhard will ever be or has ever been.  (Is Bernard on the faculty of the Moscow Conservatory? Can he play so much as a scale as well as Fyodorova, or me? No, that I seriously doubt...) . Bernhard should be so lucky as to have taken a few lessons from Fyodorova, or  Merzhanov, or Siloti, or Murina.. My advice to all, though: never ever be in awe of any one, or hold in Godly esteem any  teacher to such an extent that you lose your own critical faculties. I have been lucky to study and coach  with many  of the great pianists on this planet of this century, and to know many more of them personally;   and I have taken from them a great deal, that is,  what I cared to take; sometimes I rejected information as well as being incompatible with my own artistic vision. But  Bernhard's crude and imbecillic suggestion that I would  make golden idols of any of them is at once gratuitous and ignorant. Unlike Bernhard, I am a real pianist with a long and distinguished track record to prove it, not some wannabe like Bernhard  craving attention.  Unlike him  I am not some smug  academic lurking in obscurity pretending to authority.


BERNHARD(even more tiresome)
 the storage phase. Finally she recalls the faces and the motives come by association, all beautifully linked. The point here is that there is nothing awesome about this. Anyone can do it. And there is no reason to link motives to faces. You might as well link them to car brands or flowers. Anything absurd enough to make them memorable


JBY responds again:
What Bernard fails to grasp, and what proves to me that he has not bothered to read my paper, is that  it is simply not true: not everyone can do what she does. She memorized the entire Goldberg Variations in a few days. That is not normal, at least for most people.. Not even most Russians could do that, though I dare say Richter might have been able to.  True enough, one does not have to be Russian born to memorize so much as a phone number, but  thats besides the point. The point here is intonatsiia  is a manner of listening, an approach to learning,  a way of thinking about the shaping of phrases. As I wrote in my articles, and as one gentleman here echoed, it is not something Russian teachers  need to talk about, or ever do, as students  there absorb it intuitively thaks to the kind of teaching  that is customary and usual in Russia.  It is not the kind of teaching one normally finds  in the west, at least in America, where students are routinely praised rather than criticized no matter how  little talent they may have, or how lazy they may be.


JOHN BELL YOUNG

www.johnbellyoung.com
www.enocharden.net
www.johnbellyoung.org
www.concertartist.info/IMCA/.
www.masterclass.ws

[lostinidlewonder]

Why teach music? That is a simple answer for me, I sincerly enjoy observing peoples musical journey. And to be part of it, that is really special to me.

[puma]

So I can inflict all sorts of sadistic pain upon little children's faces ... PSYCH!  That seems to be the reason for some ... luckily, I have been graced by teachers who let me pursue my own repertoire.  Honestly, it just feels good to be passing on the gift to others - to teach them how to play.  Feels like you're just giving talent away - or teaching talent.  One of my teachers once said one is not born with talent, but learns it.  Although this can be disputed, I believe that if one has the will and determination AND resources, they can achieve almost anything. 

[timothy42b]

m1469,

You have a knack for starting insightful topics.  That's probably a strength for your teaching, if you are harnessing it.

Hmm, are you teaching children, or teaching music?  I don't think that's really profound, I just had to say it!  I guess it's profound if you want it to be.  It's not original but I can't remember where I heard it.  Maybe it is original <grin>.

I am new to piano and there are some philosophical differences here that seem very strange to me.  My background is trombone, and I have sung in church choirs since I can remember.  So how relevant this observation is to you I don't know, but it seems to be true for other forms of music.

For most people, you've got to gig to keep the energy.  I have had many friends complain about music teachers who are burned out, dysfunctional, unskilled, unmotivated, etc., and I am always amazed, because I don't know any like that.  Then I realize, the only place I normally meet a music teacher of any kind, is when they're moonlighting on a gig, and that probably selects for the ones that have stayed fresh and motivated.  When I sit down next to a music teacher at an Oktoberfest, a dinner dance, broadway show, etc., I can pretty well predict they're going to be basically competent (not virtuosic, usually, but line level competent), have a good attitude, and laugh at my jokes even if they're not funny.   And they seem to enjoy what they're doing then, and far as I can tell enjoy what they do at their day job. 

I notice nobody above has given that advice.  On the trombone forums, that would have been the FIRST advice to be given.  Why aren't you in the local wind ensemble, could you start a brass quintet, you can play Dixieland can't you, we need a guy for a parade next week, etc. 

I don't know what kind of performance opportunities you have in your area, and maybe you're not interested, but they are there and for most of us they make a difference.  Many of them pay, some of them well. 

I'm not claiming you have to be a performer to be a good teacher.  I don't believe that for a second.  I AM claiming that regular performances have a significant benefit in keeping your motivation fresh and your mental health solid. 

Plus, it can be so much fun.  Music can be rewarding and not fun, but it isn't a sin to have it be fun sometimes.  I sat in with the local high school band this summer and played a couple of football games.  Wow, that's fun - that high can keep you going months. 

[Guirlandes]

Look, I ve been getting an awful lot of email all of a sudden since posting my commetns this afternoon. Its all from msuciains who lavor under the impression I am an agent or impresarrio.  I am NOT  an agent, I do have a company , Identity  Marketing for Concert Artists, Inc. and I am a consultant to certain concert artsits of my  own choosing. This is not a  service that I offer to just anyone, but only to  artists whose work in my professional estimation is utterly exemplary, of the highest order, world class;  it is for those artists who I have come to know over time and  whose potential I absolutely believe in. My service  is not about fees or money; it is not something for sale or to be bought willy-nilly.

 Thus if anyone is interested in my services, you will have to talk to me first, let me get to know you, to hear you in person and on disc, presuming you are at a stage where you have recordings and are already established professionally. I am always willing to listen, though I make no promises that I can invite you on to my roster, or that I will offer you any services.  What  I in fact offer is advice for career strategies, as I am also  able to open doors for my artists  to the media, to concert venues, to important musicans and conductors,; and genreally I come up with unique and effective ideas that  facilitate an artist's ability to stand out and be noticed in a very competitive and crowded field. But again, please: do NOT send me money, do not ask me to represent you as an agent., and do not try to enroll for my consultation sedrvices without getting in touch wtih me first.  Thank you. 

JOHN BELL YOUNG
www.johnbellyoung.com
www.johnbellyoung.org
www.enocharden.net
 www.concertartist.info/IMCA/
www.masterclass.ws

[whynot]

Mr. Young:  thank goodness, you've arrived just in time.  There are a number of well-known and brilliant pianists on this forum (clearly not as accomplished as you... well, I haven't heard them all, but I can take your word for it), along with many gifted and insightful teachers,  but without you we never could have cracked the code that is Bernhard and seen him as you do.  Oh, wait a minute, you haven't SEEN him.

Hmm... well, at least you've set us all straight about his teaching philosophies because you've read his many (would it be hundreds or even thousands?) excellent, inspired and inspiring posts on this forum.  You have READ them all, right?  Because that is what a good researcher does.  I mean, even if they were in a language that is not native to you, you would spend several decades becoming fluent in order to read everything that a person ever wrote so as to understand him perfectly.  And the fact that he's not published... WELL.
First of all, that must be true, because you said so.  Secondly, everyone knows that everything published is relevant, truthful and worth reading.  So an unpublished thinker is really no thinker at all.

A little off the subject, but I was inspired by your physical description of yourself, especially as compared to Bernhard.  You've SEEN for yourself what looks like... oh, you haven't? but you've read a little of his writing... that's almost the same thing.  Anyway, I thought of a  little moneymaking idea for you.   Probably shallow on my part, but after knowing what you look like...  not even so much by your actual descriptiong but by the writing itself.  I mean, one can certainly ascertain a person's physique through his writing, right? and you "read" very, very fit, if you don't mind the compliment.   So here's my idea:  you could put out a photo calendar of yourself, maybe even sell it on this forum.   Use a different shot for every month, each one showing you doing something at which you are brilliant.  Well, you might have to make it a two-year calendar.  And most definitely in Russian, no concession to us academic lightweights who only speak two or three languages.  If people really want to read what the date is, they'll learn the language on the calendar. 

Finally, I think we forum regulars have to admit to ourselves that success is not the measure of our process, as we thought it was.  If our students are successful, that does not mean we as teachers had anything to offer them.  If we perform successfully, that does not mean that we learned or practiced using productive methods.  I guess the only way to know if what we're doing works is to ask you, Mr. Young.  So here goes:  my students are, for the most part, quite successful.  Also happy, not that that should matter.  And my own playing is going swimmingly.  But I just don't know if I'm doing it right, because I've been reading Bernhard for a while and, while I thought I was inspired, I realize now that you have the real answers.  Please tell me how I'm doing. 

P.S.  m1469 Fox, I'm very sorry that your excellent questions and thoughts got put aside here.  They really touch a lot of people, as you can see by their responses.   
 

 

[whynot]

m1469 Fox... to get back on track here, I bet you're a better teacher than you think you are.  You are continually searching for answers, you love music, and you love your students.  You seem to have the long-term view in mind for them, and when you suspect you're not being effective in a teaching situation, it takes over your life, which I think is good.  I mean, perhaps not a state to be in all the time, but a good sign that you take it seriously and are really paying attention to each person.  Sometimes it's clear that we've helped someone, and we love that moment.  But sometimes it isn't clear, even when we really have helped.  It can take a lot of time for efforts to show up with certain students, maybe because they feel more than they can say to a relative stranger, maybe because of growing up and the attendant hormones and personal problems.  Maybe they're still putting together all their learning about an aspect of playing, and a whole "package" of understanding will show up later.

I don't think you have to worry about music meaning something different to them from what it means to you.  It means something different to all of us, and we're probably not even consistent with ourselves over time in how we respond to it.  You can share your philosophy and love, and that is very giving, but wanting their philosophy to be the same as yours puts a lot a pressure on you and, I think, on them as well.  I believe good teachers do care more about their subject than many of their students, and I think that's fine.  Whatever playing music means to them right now, you can show them how to read and play the things they care about, plus whatever else you see would be helpful.  The world is big.  And the world of music is even bigger.  There's room enough for all the different responses we have to it.  I try to make the world a little broader for them and help them to keep their options open by teaching many different skills on their instrument, including how to solve their own problems so they won't always need me.  Then, as their tastes and situations change, they will hopefully be equipped to pursue music in all the ways that matter to them.  Good luck with everything!       



     

[Guirlandes]

MAYLA FOX wrote:

Mr. Young:  thank goodness, you've arrived just in time.  There are a number of well-known and brilliant pianists on this forum (clearly not as accomplished as you...


JBY
Nor  as rich, nor as deliciously malevolent.

MF: .
..well, I haven't heard them all, but I can take your word for it), along with many gifted and insightful teachers,  but without you we never could have cracked the code that is Bernhard and seen him as you do.  Oh, wait a minute, you haven't SEEN him.


JBY:
 Thank God for small favors.


MF:
Hmm... well, at least you've set us all straight about his teaching philosophies because you've read his many (would it be hundreds or even thousands?) excellent, inspired and inspiring posts on this forum.  You have READ them all, right? 

JBY.
One is enough, thanks.  I have better ways to spend my time than reading such massive detritus, doubtless just more  of the same. Unlike Bernhard, I can actaully play the piano, and because of that I can teach if I want to, and get results. That is because I know precisely what I am doing, and what music is all about in technical and aesthetic categories. Otherwise I really have no need to talk about it. It's like  those with old money; there's no need to bring it up. Bernhards  toilet paper and refrigerator metaphors were quite enough to see me thorugh his creepy methodology of stale metaphors.

Now,  If you want great teaching, I can refer you to a few on this m planet such as Murina, Ben Kpaplan in London, Constance Keene in New York, Jerry Lowenthal in New York,  Thomas Schuamcher in Maryland,  Fyodorova and Merzhanov in Moscow, Viardo in Texas, Damase in Paris,  Dammerini in Italy, and any number of others around the world.. It's nice that you have a sense of humor about all this, but take my advice where teaching professionals is concerned: forget metaphors Always get to the  point when teaching, forget that  crap. Extol for your students  the destiny  of a particular harmonic function; ask   them to identify where things are going and where they have come from, disavow them of bad habits, make them think for a change; ask them to read voluminously, and yes, to learn several languages, at least five. Demand that they dig deep and learn to engage the music at hand dialectically with and in the context of critical thinking.

MF
...od researcher does.  I mean, even if they were in a language that is not native to you, you would spend several decades becoming fluent in order to read everything

JBY:
Been there, done that. Precisely what I have done. Decades learning all that. And you? Have you? Or are you LAZY??? Don't you know the unique and utterly special relationship that exists and indeed governs virtually all Russinan through-composed music from the kuchkists on down, and even earlier? No? Well, you should, and if you don't, then you should be ashamed of yorself for having allowed such an appalling gap to have compromised your intellectual curiousity and professionalism as both a teacher and performer, if indeed you are one.  How can you possibly play Musorgsky or Scriabin or even Rachmaninoff, much less teach their works to others, without having the foggiest idea what  a myakii znak is, or the zov in the case of Scriabin? How can you ignore the relationship of the rhythms of language, and the Polish language, for exampe, with its trochaic emphasis in the case of Chopin? Have you no grasp of musical semiotics?

I must say,  such attitudes are precisely the reason that we have such a dirth of authentic aritsts anywhere in this country these days, or in the world for that matter. There are only a handful of great pianists on this planet at the moment and I know where they all  are. Do you?  Even if you are not aware of these things by birth or by virtue  of having  grown  up with the language., it is imperative to investigate, to learn enough about these things to make informed judgements that have artistic authority and aesthetic weight.  Indeed, if you aren't so lucky to speak the language, would it not behoove you as a professional to gather as much information as you possibly can to inform yourself as to the scope and possibilities of such relationships?

MF: 
that a person ever wrote so as to understand him perfectly.  And the fact that he's not published... WELL.

JBY
Yes, , thats a credibility issue, that he is not published. Why is that?  Ever occurred to you that those professionals in music publishing determined years ago that he has either nothing to say, cannot write, or is not sufficiently credible to bring honor to the publishing house? Thats my guess. He is an amnkateur, not a pro. That's all. Nothing wrong with that, but  in that case, he should probably keep  his opinions to himself, whoever the hell he is. I dare say that most of my esteemed colleagues have at least had their works published somewhere, even if it is a thesis or a magazine article or two on regular basis. What has Bernhard had published? Hmm??


MF:
First of all, that must be true, because you said so.  Secondly, everyone knows that everything published is relevant, truthful and worth reading.  So an unpublished thinker is really no thinker at all.

JBY:
Your sarcasm is not substantive, but shallow.  when you mean to be ironic.  That you are not,s yiou are not suffficiently in command of the langauge to use irony correctly. So your comments emerge as merely cheap, and overbearing,  rather than serious. You may want  to look into this to sort out how to undermine  the argument of another, but trust me, you have a very long way to go before you can spar with a pen at once as cruel and razor sharp as mine.

Since you mean precisely the oppoisite, in your none too subtle way, an unpublished thinker of Bernhard's variety is hardly difficult to figure out. You see, most publishers look for something radical and new that has to be said; he has offered absolutely nothing new, and his writing is crass. The man is an amateur, that's all. If he were not, he would have something to show for it: a book deal, a recording proving to everyone that he can play as well as he thinks or writes (that of course is ,in his case, a logical impossiblity) But he has nothing. There is no reason that an authentically gifted, professional  and competent  pianist can not get a record deal, and put his money where his  mouth iis: on the market place, so we can all determine the extent of his interpretive acumen  and technical skills. Is there some reason Bernhard hides all this? Does he have a debilitating disease, perhaps,  that prevents him from playing, or persuading a publisher to take him on?    Can he see beyond his naval?  Come  now, my dear,  the classical music business is not one where wasting time is tolerated.

MF
A little off the subject, but I was inspired by your physical description of yourself, especially as compared to Bernhard.  You've SEEN for yourself what looks like... oh, you haven't? but you've read a little of his writing... that's almost the same thing.  Anyway, I thought of a  little moneymaking idea for you.   Probably shallow on my part, but after knowing what you look like...  not even so much by your actual descriptiong but by the writing itself.  I mean, one can certainly ascertain a person's physique through his writing, right? and you "read" very, very fit, if you don't mind the compliment.   So here's my idea:  you could put out a photo calendar of yourself, maybe even sell it on this forum.   Use a different shot for every month, each one showing you doing something at which you are brilliant.  Well, you might have to make it a two-year calendar.  And most definitely in Russian, no concession to us academic lightweights who only speak two or three languages.  If people really want to read what the date is, they'll learn the language on the calendar. 

JBY:
Not a bad a idea at all, actually. I'd be happy to send a photo of myself --wouldn't you just love that? -- providing you send me an adress to post it. Perhaps I will post one to my website this evening, and yo can all ooh and ah, preferably in the privacy of your own bedroom. Oddly enough, you are not far from the truth. I am underwriting a new business venture right now:  gay porno films. Rest assured, we will most certainly be issuing calanders as well. Sorry to disappoint  you, old gal, but I am only the producer, not an actor. However, we are happy to audition  young, handsome,  fit guys who, though they may not be professional, at least look good. Like Bernhard, they can at least be trained.

By the way, if anyone knows  the world's greatest gay porn director, Jean-Daniel Cadinot personally, and is willing to introduce me to him, I would be most grateful.  We hope to persuade him to make his first English language film, and though I have his home number  in Paris, I don't dare call him without establishing contact through an insider first.  It isn't simply about the money for him, but about the work.  Cadinot is an artist of the first class. You  know how these things go. Actually, he made a terriffic  film some years ago about a pianist, and I wouldn't mind  producing a re-make in English if someone cares to submit a script. Just remember, we a  are looking for more sex than music, and the actor in the lead will have to be, ahem, rather talented. So for those who want  some real money, go for porn $$$$$$$$$$$$ -- Siorry, I ain't giving a dime to music.  But we will let you know too when our websites are up.

MF:
Finally, I think we forum regulars have to admit to ourselves that success is not the measure of our process, as we thought it was.

JBY
 Well, that's a pity. you'll never win Don Trump's comepetition, or any competition with that attitude. Process is the poor mans' word for praxis, which necessarily embraces success as a measure of its burden.

MF
If our students are successful, that does not mean we as teachers had anything to offer them.  If we perform successfully, that does not mean that we learned or practiced using productive methods.

JBY:
Well, there you make no sense whatsoever. That is a logical impossibility. It is quite impossible to perform anything successfully absent a rigorous methodology of learning wherein the means of production are at once efficient and demonsrably effective in both technical and interpretive categories.

MF:
I guess the only way to know if what we're doing works is to ask you, Mr. Young.

JBY:
That is correct. However, stay tuned. Coming soon and in the works as I write  is my internationally broadcast, no-holds-barred  radio program, the CM equivalent of the Howard Stern Show,  in which I will take pains  to set the record straight. If there is anyone in the business I have not insulted, as Brahms once opined, please forgive me.

MF:
 So here goes:  my students are, for the most part, quite successful.  Also happy, not that that should matter. 

JBY:
It doesn't . If they want a friend, get a dog.

MF:And my own playing is going swimmingly.

JBY:
Does that mean that you flap about at the piano like a fish out of water, your arms all akimbo in a fit faux "relaxation"?  I certainly hope not for your sake, to speak nothing of your listeners. That is  very bad technique, the worst in fact.

MF:
But I just don't know if I'm doing it right, because I've been reading Bernhard for a while

JBY:
That would explain it.

MF:
and, while I thought I was inspired, I realize now that you have the real answers.



JBY:
 Yes, I do.

MF
 Please tell me how I'm doing. 

JBY:
By all means, just send me a professionally realized recording of yourself and I will give you the verdict. It may be that you should just stick to your day job, and give up. Don't worry about it. Even if behind your shrill exterior you are a well known  pianist, I can always screw you over in the media  if I so choose, -- in the press and on radio --  and give you one bad review after another before millions of people.  Don't think I wouldn't.  That is the great luxury of doing what I do.  Now you wouldn't want that,  would you? It really wouldn't help your career to be bad mouthed continually, no would it?  Or maybe I will take your image once  I find it --and I can find anything I choose to, it wouldn't take me more than a few hours at most to procure a photo of  you, as I have sorts of ways of doing that, wouldn't you like to know --  attach it to the nude body of a transexual for one of my porn sites. How would you like them potatoes, old gal? , Be careful with me, lady. I am one hell of a SOB and I mean business. Just ask around, kid.    I really don't care  what you or anybody thinks. You can sue me later, for all I care. Sorry to inform you, but a nice guy I am not. Annoy me and I will simply screw  you over royally by  any means possible. Go ahead, make my day. Think  of me, then, as the John Gotti of the music business.  Lets just leave it at that, shall we? Catch my drift? It's a New York thing. I'm so glad.  Or you can go to www.masterclass.ws where, for only $9.95 per 15 minute video file, you can learn something helpful. It's  a good deal cheaper than my porno sites will be.

P.S.  m1469 Fox, I'm very sorry that your excellent questions and thoughts got put aside here.  They really touch a lot of people, as you can see by their responses.   

JBY:
And anyone who is interested in touching of another kind can audition for me, providing you are a gay male, in top shape, young, and talented in all the right places.
 

JOHN BELL YOUNG
www.johnbellyoung.com
www.johnbellyoung.org
www.enocharden.net
www.concertartist.info/IMCA
www.masterclass.ws


 
 
 
 
 
.

[xvimbi]

JOHN BELL YOUNG, if that's who you really are, I would simply suggest you leave the premises and never bother us again. Enough said.

[Brian Healey]

That dude impersonating JBY obviously has WAY too much time on his hands, especially for somebody who was supposed to be performing a concert in Palm Beach on the same day that he posted that message. I know that whenever I have a concert, the only thing on my mind is racing home so that I can post a ridiculously long message on Piano Forum.


Peace,
Bri

[lostinidlewonder]

I have got to say, what kind of load of utter RUBBISH is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone look at me, I am Claudio Arrau reincarnated. *pffffft. Even if I was the King of .... Egypt I wouldn't throw my name around and insult people like JBY.

The question was, why do you teach, not blah blah talk bad about others and try to make yourself look big.

I gotta say i don't believe everything everyone says here, but that doesn't mean they are wrong, inferior or incompetent. IF you are a real musician you will realise the variation of music and ways to learn it, not spew out who you think is best and say, do this and that or be a lazy loser.

Urrr I think ill go hit something now.

[Nordlys]

It is very strange. One thing is for sure, someone writing posts as stupid as these couldn't possibly be a professional pianist. I tried to google John Bell Young. Could it be that he is just a fraud? He doesn't seem to be referred to by any newspaper or wellknown website, only by sites which he could have made himself.

[Guirlandes]

Nordlys wrote:
   
   Re: why do you teach?
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2005, 12:55:24 AM »
   

It is very strange. One thing is for sure, someone writing posts as stupid as these couldn't possibly be a professional pianist. I tried to google John Bell Young. Could it be that he is just a fraud? He doesn't seem to be referred to by any newspaper or wellknown website, only by sites which he could have made himself.

JBY responds:
What the hell is wrong with you, you stupid putz? Are you blind or simply illiterate? Evidently  you have no idea how to use the net to find information. There are more than 5000 listings for me via  Google's search engine, and if you would  simply enter my name in it or any search engine such as Alta Vista, in quotation marks, which will limit your search to my name only, you will get all the info you could ask for. Thus, enter my name as   "John Bell Young" and see for yourself. You might try spelling it correctly, that would help, and given how immensly stupid it was for you to post such nonsense before  perfomring the task correctly it is no surprise  you didn't find anything: You IDIOT:  OBVIOUSLY typed in my name incorrectly.

. You are such a moron that if you haven't heard off me by now proves only that you are so far out of the loop as to be nearly comatose. That means you are no more than a rank amateur and a  first class moron. Get a griip you idiot.  Of course I am a professional pianist, as the recortd proves for decades. My recoreings are heard on radio somewhere on this planet nearly every day.  I am a  critic for many major publications --the St Petersburg Times, Opera News, American Record Guide,  Clavier etc.  -- for years; not only are thousand  of my articles on line by subscription  and for free on the Net, and through the Electronic Library if you care to pay for them, or through the Dow, but  there are hundres of articles about me in major papers and magazines all over the world, including Time and the NY TImes. and once I find out who you are, you  f-kin dweeb, believe me you are on myh black list. .I will be only too hoappy to rub your nose  in dogshit publily. creating  to  rub your noese4 in the  dogshit publicly. Mess with  wtih me yoiu fk and I will deal with you as I  will publicly humiliate you at every available opportunity after I track you down,  That is a promise. Don' t like that?  Who cares? Sue me.

JOHN BELL YOUNG

[Guirlandes]

Sr. Member
****
Posts: 288


   
   Brian Healyey wrote:
Re: why do you teach?
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2005, 10:37:10 PM »
   Reply with quote
That dude impersonating JBY obviously has WAY too much time on his hands, especially for somebody who was supposed to be performing a concert in Palm Beach on the same day that he posted that message. I know that whenever I have a concert, the only thing on my mind is racing home so that I can post a ridiculously long message on Piano Forum.


Peace,
Bri

YOu think I am not who I say  I am?  Why is that? That's why  I have to throw bombs into sedate bourgeois enclacves such as this one every now and then, ,just so that you comatose sots will WAKE UP.   Where did I ever write that I had a c oncert on the same day in Palm Beach?  I wrote that post just the other day,  and referred to a concert I had in WEST Palm Beach LAST YEAR--JUST READ THE POST and get your facts straight. I am indeed John Bell Young, and I happen  to see more money and more fun in gay porno thatn I do in the staid and grotesque world of classical music and its assorted, slimy and more often than not illegal business practices --thats' right, illegal because so many of those who  populate it work without licensers, which they must  have to engage in  any kind of agency represetnation. I know,  I am a licensed broker.  BUt you stupid assholes wouldn't have any idea about that, naive and incompetent that the lot of  you are. Every one of you losers disgusts me.  And  again, ,I promise this: mess e with me, and i will hunt you down like a rabid animal, ,then  write terrible things about you in the press, and speak iill of you on the radio


So,  Brian,  you don't believe I am John Bell Young? OK, in that case, here's what you can do to satisfy your curiosity. . You go to one of my websites and write me at the address  to contact me.  Or phone me Brian., on my private line...  718 874 2466 , after this disclosure obviously not so private.   Go ahead. I  will return you call Brian. Just be sure to identitfy yourself. Or meet me. You just cannot believe that I would say what I really think ,which is that the whole lot of you sprry losers would waste time braggingb about sh*t that you know nothing at all about, which is why I so loathe  chat rooms like this and the insignifican\t bugs who use them every day to misle themselves ..the blind leading the blind.

JOHN BELL YOUNG

[Guirlandes]

     Re: why do you teach?
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2005, 12:29:06 AM »
   Reply with quote
I have got to say, what kind of load of utter RUBBISH is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOSTINIDLEWONDER wrote:


Everyone look at me, I am Claudio Arrau reincarnated. *pffffft. Even if I was the King of .... Egypt I wouldn't throw my name around and insult people like JBY.

The question was, why do you teach, not blah blah talk bad about others and try to make yourself look big.

I gotta say i don't believe everything everyone says here, but that doesn't mean they are wrong, inferior or incompetent. IF you are a real musician you will realise the variation of music and ways to learn it, not spew out who you think is best and say, do this and that or be a lazy loser.

Urrr I think ill go hit something now.

JBY RESPONDS:

Bugger off, you jerk. If I want your opiion I will give it to you.You are little more than a bug.  Careful, or I might just have to step  on you.  Or maybe you  just need to get laid. In that case,  I can refer you to a particularly good  escort service that miight be able to help. 

JOHN BELL YOUNG

[John Bell Young]

Thanks to one of the members here, it has just come to my attention today that someone pretending to be me  has been submitting  posts of an entirely inappropriate and lurid nature.  To quote Al Pacino's character in Godfather III, just as I get out they pull me back in!  But seriously, I must respond to this one.

 I have not participated in any internet music chatrooms for more than 2 years, as I don't  care for them, and in any case they simply took up too much of my time.   It is true,  and no secret that on those forums I routinely  challenged others vigorously,  often rudely,  but  largely as a measure of invigorating a topic. My purpose was always to compel  folks to think more deeply about issues before making wholesale judgements, as they so ofen do on these things.  "How can a musician  who has never made a recording, "  I recall one such member once pondering , "possibly be any good? That means the record companies don't think he's any good, which means the public doesn't think so either." As you can imagine, remarks of that sort were enough to make my blood boil.  However,  though I also wrote many controversial posts, rarely did I stray beyond  musical issues. I never had any reason to do so.  It is precisely in going so far over the top that my impersonator slips up.

In fact, I even wrote an article -- a serious, erudite  one -- about internet chatrooms, and my exasperating  experiences on them, for www.towerofbabel.com , entitled "My Experience as a Cyber Hooligan" Reading some of the posts of  my impersonator suggests that he doesn't know me as well as he thinks he does:  I would never go  so far over the rails as he does,  nor represent myself as having  interests in, of all things, pornography as a business venture. I must say, though, that the thought of it amuses me; nothing would give me greater pleasure than to make the money that those guys do, but the reality of my life is, regretably, rather different and not nearly so  well compensated as they are.

Whoever is impersonating me --   judging by his vocabulary, knowledge  and style he  is doing an exceptionally good  job of it -- may be a disgruntled artist about  whom I wrote an unfavorable review;  or it may be  someone from my internet past who feels they have a score to settle.  This kind of thing goes with the territory  Indeed, when  I wrote a highly critical piece about David Helfgott for the St  Petersburg Times some years ago,  I even got death  threats.  And just recently  someone wrote me a very angry, even chilling  letter in response to an unfavorable review I penned about his favorite pianist.

I regret any discomfort this business has caused any one here, but I have absolutely nothing to do with it.  This comes out of the blue. Sometimes when one is in a more or less high profile position  professionally, as I am -- especially now that I am on international  tour with a celebrated  film star who is a household name -- these kind of things can happen.   Unfortunately I am not  sure if there is anything I can do to stop it, other than complain to a website administrator.  It would take a small fortune to track down whomever it is, and at this time I am neither willing or able to invest the time or money to do so.   Therefore I can only ask you all to ignore the posts of this person and not to give him or her the time of day.  To do so will only make it worse,  as it will give the imposter both  the attention he craves and also provide him with an opportunity to respond.

As for the person who started this and continues to impersonate me:  Please stop.  If you have some bone to pick with me then please do so  by contacting me directly, rather than bothering the people on this forum. If you are imitating my often ribald posts from years ago on other forums, and even on my own "Scriabin Group" (on Yahoo) , I congratulate you for fashioning such a flattering impersonation.  But I must put you  on notice that if you continue,  your game will not be tolerated, and  I will find some way to put a stop  to it  You seem to have access to information about my professional life, including my fees,  that would not be available to the general public; thus I  have to presume that you may be someone I know  or have had  discussions with.  While I may be perplexed  now,  believe me when I tell you that I will make every effort to uncover your identity should you persist.

To the list: thanks for your understanding on this matter, and I wish you all well.  I have nothing more to say on this matter, and  I can only hope that it resolves itself. I will monitor the list for a while longer to see if this person persists, and then take things from there. I appreciate  your collegial sympathy in this matter.

John Bell Young
 

[lenny]

lol, funny stuff!

[anda]

getting back to the topic: why do i teach?

student "A" is very passionate about music (generally) and about piano (specifically), very musical, very smart - but catastrophic technically. she loves piano, understands what i explain her and tries to the best of her abilities to do as i say. i teach her because it is a pleasure to work with such a nice person, and also because i hope we she eventually (hard work envolved) overcome her technical difficulties and thus, be very likely to become pianist.

student "B" is incredibly gifted technically - fast fingers, good (natural) sound, exceptional rhythmic sense. also, he couldn't care less about any detail written on the score except for the notes, or about a message hidden in the work. all he cares about is playing all the (right) notes, fast, and get good grades. i teach him because i still hope he will grow up eventually and maybe even become pianist.

student "C" is catastrophic. no musicality, no technique, no rhythm, no nothing - also, couldn't care less about anything in the whole world (except for being "different" from anybody). he will never be a pianist, not under any  circumstances. i teach him for money.

so, in a nutshell: my motivation varies with the student.

after all, who cares why i teach, as long as i do it the best i can?

best regards

[m1469]

Good point(s) anda, I suppose what matters most is doing the best one can.  Sometimes I ask 'why' simply because I fall into the trap of thinking that knowing why will help me to achieve a better understanding of what is that I am doing, and I will be therefore better at what I do. 

Anyhow, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.  Thanks.

m1469 Fox

[Guirlandes]

"John Bell Young" aka m1469 Fox writes



  Re: why do you teach?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2005, 04:40:55 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to one of the members here, it has just come to my attention today that someone pretending to be me  has been submitting  posts of an entirely inappropriate and lurid nature.  To quote Al Pacino's character in Godfather III, just as I get out they pull me back in!  But seriously, I must respond to this one.


BLA BLA BLA
.
As for the person who started this and continues to impersonate me:  Please stop.  If you have some bone to pick with me then please do so  by contacting me directly, rather than bothering the people on this forum. If you are imitating my often ribald posts from years ago on other forums, and even on my own "Scriabin Group" (on Yahoo) , I congratulate you for fashioning such a flattering impersonation.  But I must put you  on notice that if you continue,  your game will not be tolerated, and  I will find some way to put a stop  to it  You seem to have access to information about my professional life, including my fees,  that would not be available to the general public; thus I  have to presume that you may be someone I know  or have had  discussions with.  While I may be perplexed  now,  believe me when I tell you that I will make every effort to uncover your identity should you persist.
.
John Bell Young

The REAL JOHN BELL YOUNG responds:

You don't fool me you shriveled  cnt m1469 Fox... you could at least be moire imaginative than trying to pretend you are me by writing this bogus apology in my name while claiming that *I* am an imposter. Get over yourself, m1469 ... who the hell are you to say anything, when you don't have even a thumbnail worth of intellectual acumen or talent to suggest  offer any thing at all?  May I suggest you find something to do that is commensurate with your abilities, such as administering enemas to syphalitic whores like yourself. I'm going to find photos of you m1469 and make you the centerpiece of a porn site for the whole world to see. How do you like THEM potatoes you smarmy btich? And one more thing: how long have you been sleeping with your 13 year old students? Getting off on that, m1469?  Maybe I'll just have to  dig up some pics of you in compromising positions with kids...

JOHN BELL YOUNG
 

[lenny]

could someone explain - in short - what the F*** IS GOING ON HERE???

[Brian Healey]

Madness, Lenny, pure madness........


....and some mayhem too.



Peace,
Bri

[lenny]

lol, amazing!!