Teacher takes phone calls, hasn't made one mark on my music, etc., ad naseum

[flyinfingers]

Well, I'm sorry to bother everyone AGAIN, but this is my third teacher in a few months.  I took lessons as a child and am taking again as an adult.  It may be that my teacher as a child was awesome but I'm wondering what to expect!
I have had three one-hour lessons with her and these are the current observations:
1.  Takes phone calls!  Yes, gets up and answers the phone -- each week!
2.  Talks about irrelevant stuff A LOT during my lesson, i.e., family, donating to the music assoc.
3.  Has not made ONE mark on my music.  Oh, yes, she put a baby sticker on my music -- I tore it off -- that said "good job" -- really?  
3.  Have played for less than 30 minutes (probably less, giving her the benefit of the doubt) in three hours' worth of lessons.
4.  Barely wants to hear any technique that I've practiced (says I should practice technique for 15 minutes a day, but I disagree).
5.  Doesn't even address the signature as I don't even remember how to count that well.
6.  Doesn't believe in perfecting pieces.  As a matter of fact, week 1, she gave me a piece two pages, played it like crapola on her piano (nerves mostly). That was week 2.  Didn't care.   Gave me a new piece, two whole pages, which you can't perfect, in my opinion, week 3, played it like crapola (nerves and too much to learn in one week) and added another page for next week!
I am really confused at what is good teaching.  I'm ready to move on to teacher no. 4!  Pretty soon I'll be blacklisted and no one will teach me!   It's not a big town!
Thanks for any input to clear this up.  I'm wondering if I'm expecting too much.  I could probably do a better job teaching myself if this keeps up, but I don't wish to do that -- YET!
Thanks so much!

[keypeg]

Trying to get more of a picture.

What does she teach you?  I mean, in the lesson, what does she do during the lesson, what does she stress?  What kinds of things does she assign - not only pieces, but what you are to do with those pieces?  If she does assign particular things, do you do them?  Or do you do something different that you feel is important?  If you have problems with signatures or counting, have you told her of your problems and asked for help?  What does she say about your counting?  Do you know how to practice - how to practice your assignments - have you asked her - has she told you?

[ajspiano]

I'm not really sure what you're asking..  do you want a break down of how a good lesson would go start to finish or something of that nature? Its fairly difficult to say since everyone is different, though there are a few underlying ideas that I try to stick to I guess..

I think you should take charge of your situation, tell her what you want to get out of the lesson and that you are frustrated and don't understand why you are doing things the way you are..

She'll either have valid reasons for her process or not..  you can make a judgement about it after you know where she's coming from.

Trouble is that piano and teaching are 2 completely different fields combined. Unfortunately they are often put together by someone who knows how to play but not how to teach.

[flyinfingers]

Keypeg, I don't know how to quote and make it light up in blue.  Can you help?  I'll answer the first question:  What does she teach you?  
Well, not counting, some scales that she assigns, the Hanon with the mixed legato, accenting, stocatta (hope I spell these okay) octaves, trills, which I do all of that and that's not really the problem except I barely get to play them!  I have yet to play an arpegio, a full three octave C scale -- well, maybe once.  I was working on the fingering because I kept screwing it up in one spot.  I did get to play the Hanon the whole way through week 2.  And she is trying to teach me to play with looser wrists.  Now we're onto the A scale after she told me we were going to do the circle of fifths.
 She doesn't teach me much when it comes to the actual music except maybe some tempo if I go too fast, she'll just say you sped up there.  Like I said, not one marking on my music.
The piling on of pieces that are not perfected is not my style or is it my personality.  Okay, how about this?  She has never asks me to repeat anything.  I play it like crap (nerves and getting used to her piano) I play it once and that's it.  Then she goes on to piling on more.  
She gave me that Prelude well-tempered clavichord.  I learned it real well (took hours), played it okay, had the counting wrong, she played it correctly, told me to fix it, which I did when I got home, and that's the end of that!  
Sorry for posting here, but I really need help with this stuff because I'm very confused.  I wish I could get my childhood teacher back.  He was the best!  He never did this.  I wasn't allowed to get a new piece until I perfected what I had, memorizing it and playing it perfectly.  

[flyinfingers]

I did tell her I wished to perfect pieces and she more or less rolled her eyes.  Let's take a poll of teachers and ask them if they mark on the student's music!  I already know what the answer to that is.   I'd be surprised to hear one of them say no.

Yes, I do everything she assigns.  What does she do with the pieces?  What should she do with them?

Bottom line, I want a teacher who is structured and can implement some piano discipline.  This is merely more or less a social hour, in my opinion.
Frustrated?  No.  Sad and crying is more like it.

[ajspiano]

whether she has reasons or not I don't think 'rolling her eyes' is an acceptable response under any circumstance..

I don't mean to preach here, but this is how I was taught, and how I teach, and what it says in changs book..

just as a start..

start piece separate hands to acquire required technique
don't play together until can play separately at fluently at full speed or faster
 - these two steps may take 2-3 weeks

...

pieces should be perfected this way because it takes weeks (or longer) to learn the hand motions and memorize the notes themselves with an advanced piece, and you can do your best work on expression/musicality once notes are learnt and you're not having to focus just on coordinating you arms/hands/fingers. Work on expression then takes more time..  if you don't do this, all you ever learn is how to play inaccurately and without expression.

Completion/perfection of pieces also provides a sense of achievement for students.. super valuable. I would hate to go to lessons for months on end and after all that time/money feel like I cant play a single thing properly..  wheres the fun?

In saying that, I don't consider myself to be a brilliant teacher, I'm still young so take my words with a grain of salt..

even so, if your teachers reason for not completing pieces is valid, then she should be explaining this to her students, even more so because you are an adult. Understanding the reasons means the student will have purposeful practice, be more motivated to practice...  this in turn leads to the student being able to tell the teacher how they went and where they had difficulties, which ofcourse allows the teacher to refine the practice sessions and work on the students specific needs...  as opposed to being given a bunch of non-purposeful frustrating tasks that don't improve the students playing, where the teacher basically just says "practice more to get better" instead of giving valuable advice for a specific problem.

[flyinfingers]

AMEN!  That is exactly the way I was taught as a child and that is the way I wish to learn.  Now what do I do?  How do I find a teacher like you?  I asked her a lot of questions and she talked like she was the greatest teacher since sliced bread!  She had sent me to the previous teacher 84 years old -- terrible -- so I called her back and I shouldn't have.  I did want to call the lady from Ukraine, was my gut instinct.  
She said, "Don't you want a lot pieces in your reportoire" (spell?)?  And I said, not if I can't play them correctly.  She still piled on a whole nother page of music, garbage after garbage and more garbage.  I was looking at some of my pieces from before and the teacher was giving me like half a page.  But, of course, they were much more difficult than where I'm starting from now, but even still....
Thanks for getting it!
It's all coming back.  I always played hands separately, always!
By the way, do you think I should try to learn some of my old pieces?  I wanted to start with Fur Elise, which I know that song still (became ingrained in me for some reason, but I make mistakes now), but I would like to perfect it again.  Then, there's way more difficult ones, but I don't think I'm ready for those yet.

[ajspiano]

I'd say i'd be happy to take you on, but i'm sure you live who knows where, miles from my home in Melbourne.

Google "the fundamentals of piano practice" - thats the book I was referencing earlier. You can read it online for free...

As far as pieces you've previously learnt, there's certainly no harm in it. I personally find that I'm more motivated with newer work though. Without a teachers guidance I would recommend doing something easier first as your essentially going to have to learn to be the teacher. Analyse the piece, formulate a plan for how your going to learn it..  with your expression, try to hear the tune in your head as you play, and listen to recordings if you can find them (pianosociety.com), attempt to emulate different performers interpretations, or just come up with your own..

if you can, record yourself and think about what you'd like to adjust. You'll get a better perspective on your playing if you can hear/watch it from the outside..

[keypeg]

One thing that comes out is that with your first teacher you focused on pieces and getting them correct as your main goal.  When you learn to play an instrument, you want to get the technique, an understanding of the music, and then apply that technique to the understanding which in turn helps you to play pieces well.  Some teachers will use pieces to give you both of those things so that while you think you are doing pieces, they are actually giving you technique.  Some teachers focus almost entirely on pieces themselves.  It may be that this particular teacher is focusing on the technical side - the tools.  You mention technical weaknesses that she is addressing, so it is also possible that your first teacher has neglected this area and she now has to fix it.  My impression is that you are used to working a piece to perfection, while she does not care about the piece as much as developing you as a student.  Your expectations have been shaped by your first experience.

Suppposing she is trying to develop your technique.  The next questions is whether she is managing to.  In lessons, when you are being taught trills, or loose wrists, is she managing to bring this across?    When you are being given Hanon, are you learning how to do Hanon?  That's for the lesson part.  The rest of your learning happens at home.  If you have been given specific skills to work on, do you know how she wants you to work on them (how to practice)?  Is your focus going in the direction she wants?  Or are you focusing on bringing pieces to completion and perfecting them?  If so you, might be neglecting the part that is her focus.  If, then, you come back having practised what you find important, but not what she is stressing, there won't be progress technically since you focused on something else.  That will be a turn-off for the teacher, though answering phones during a lesson is unprofessional.

Some teachers with advanced students don't go through an entire piece.  They will hear enough to see where the student is on track or off track, sketch out what they want you to practice long enough to see that you can do it, and expect you to be able to do the rest at home.  It is hard to tell if this is happening here, or if you are just getting something confusing and half baked.  I'd want to talk to the teacher and get some feedback at this point maybe.

[lostinidlewonder]

*Raises an eyebrow at flyinfingers.

Your stories are starting to fall a part.

[flyinfingers]

Your English skills are falling a part.  
apart, one word, this isn't a "part"
Who asked you?

You don't even know the definition of story:

sto·ry/ˈstôrē/

Noun:

1.An account of imaginary or real people and events told for entertainment: "an adventure story".
2.A part of a building comprising all the rooms that are on the same level: "a three-story building".
 
GET LOST!  

[nyiregyhazi]

start piece separate hands to acquire required technique
don't play together until can play separately at fluently at full speed or faster
 - these two steps may take 2-3 weeks

...

pieces should be perfected this way because it takes weeks (or longer) to learn the hand motions and memorize the notes themselves with an advanced piece, and you can do your best work on expression/musicality once notes are learnt and you're not having to focus just on coordinating you arms/hands/fingers. Work on expression then takes more time..  if you don't do this, all you ever learn is how to play inaccurately and without expression.

While there is some intelligence behind this, it strays into extremely unintelligent dogma. Three weeks is absurd. It portrays a magic formula, despite the fact that it's actually necessary to judge how you are doing and adapt. To do useful hands separate practise without relating it to what happens when trying them together would be almost impossible. Before long, you at least need to cross-reference, if you are going to continue doing anything useful in separate practise, that will aid the final product. While most people go too far from what Chang says, to take it to the extreme he talks of would be counterproductive. The reality lies somewhere in the middle. Three weeks without even trying a few small segments hands together would be absurd.

[_achilles_]

Just some advice found as I started lessons up as an adult.. ask specific questions.. that's all. If you want black and white from someone who's full of gray specificity nice way to make progress (whether that progress be a different teacher or better lessons from the same teacher).

Also, maybe go to a different (a.k.a. bigger) town if possible? Don't know where you live but driving  a hour or so for good lessons would be worth it in my book.

[flyinfingers]

Yes, I don't remember doing hands separately for weeks and weeks, but it was always where I started beginning a new piece.  No, there's nowhere close.  It's here or nothing. 
Keypeg, I can't begin to explain it further.  I know what I'm looking for in a teacher and have yet to find it. 
This may be my final post.  I need to stay positive and  my feelings are easily hurt as was done on that post from the immature male who is lost or whatever.

[keypeg]

Y
Keypeg, I can't begin to explain it further.  I know what I'm looking for in a teacher and have yet to find it. 

What is it that you are looking to learn, though? 

[nyiregyhazi]

*Raises an eyebrow at flyinfingers.

Your stories are starting to fall a part.

You're implying this is someone else under a fake identity? I think some kind of basic substantiation would be in order, if you have grounds for suspicion.

[ajspiano]

I didn't mean to say that you will do hands separate exclusively for weeks and weeks.. Though looking back I can see how it would come accross that way. Also as I said I don't consider myself even close to an expert..

I typically assign a piece as hands separate and evaluate the next week. Then I might assign a section as together. The students practice may then include both separate and together practice for that piece. Later separate practice may be dropped generally but still asigned to smaller troublesome sections of the music. It depends on too many things which is why I said "just as a start" and "this MAY take 2-3 weeks".. Student specific factors anyone? Does the given student actually go home and do the separate practice as instructed or do they charge straight into together immediately? How much practice do they even do on a daily basis? Time frames will be different for the guy who can only fit 15-20 mins a day because he has kids and a full time job vs the one that does 2-3 hours a day.

A fair point was made about why this teacher may have been assigning work the way she is. I still think she should be explaining this to the student though. It's either a good idea that's failing due to the lack of understand or a bad idea because it has no purpose.

[pianowolfi]

Well as for the phone calls, I reduce them to an absolute minimum during lessons. If I ever take a call it's because it's very important (I can see on the phone display, who is calling me); if I am expecting something really important, I'll apologize and take the call. Also I sometimes take calls that are less than 30 seconds just because somebody wants to tell me that they can't come for his/her lesson later, due to some unexpected circumstances (I also can see on the display who's calling me and probably guess  why). Everything else does not belong into the lesson, and usually I'll make up for the time that I spent on the phone, of course.

[starstruck5]

Sorry to hear that you are still struggling to find a decent teacher.

Obviously tutorials on youtube can't replace valuable personal feedback - but you may get something from them - so here is a link - there are a whole series of helpful tuorials, full of good advice and piano wisdom.

Paul Bartons' performance of Un Sospiro is second to none imho - his tutorials, the best on youtube.

[pianowolfi]

Yes, I too really like Paul Barton's tutorials Maybe one can't always agree with everything, but I find his approach positive, encouraging, and he doesn't make a mystery out of his knowledge, I think he's a quite down-to-earth teacher He actually managed to get me back to Chopin Etudes after I had almost entirely given up on them, and that's saying something I think he has perhaps exactly the sort of attitude that I missed in some of my different piano teachers when I was younger. Some of them were so complicated, uptight, indirect, sometimes all weird. Perhaps they were just overwhelmed, or they felt like they needed to pretend to be able to teach advanced (and difficult) students and in fact weren't, I don't know.  

[pianoplayjl]

To me, to decently learn anything the teacher has to pay close attention to what you're playing and go over and over the explicit stuff in the piece, not learn a piece every week. A person needs to have played a piece for 1-2 months in order to learn anything new, for an average piano student. But speaking of that, having a teacher is better than having no teacher at all. 

[keypeg]

Are piece the goal?

[lostinidlewonder]

I have dealt with this style of trying to get members in trouble, so im sorry if I do not entertain anyone by elaborating. I really think that the over the top reaction to one of my fragmented sentence says it all.

Enjoy the stories that just don't add up in reality and are falling A PART, very amusing.

[flyinfingers]

Okay.  I lied; it may not be my last post.  You are like an annoying fly.  
It is becoming very clear to me over the last few days.  This is how I was taught as a child, teen -- anothery story!
 
1.  Pick new piece after perfecting old ones.  Can't remember if I worked on two or just one at a time.
2.  Teacher helps put in fingering (small portions of music) just to help student if there's any rough spots and does some counting also for the student in rough spots.
3.  Do hands separately and slowly.
4.  Go to lesson, play hands separately or maybe altogether once I've practiced for a week -- can't recall but I know I practiced hands separately all the time.
5.  Teacher critiques student and corrects student.
6.  Finishes the entire piece this way.
7.  After piece has been learned, puts in the pedal markings and we start to add more expression.
8.  Learn piece by memorizing it and play it perfectly until it is played to perfection.  
9.  Next piece?

Is that too much to ask?
Thanks everyone but that little gnat!  There's something wrong with you.  Seriously, go see a psychiatrist!
Oh, I'm meeting another teacher to interview, who charges double, the Ukranian lady, who studied at the conservatory.  Like they say, There's always a reason for price!  You get what you pay for!
LOST:
You really are lost when it comes to being educated in the language in which you speak.
IT IS NOT A FRAGMENTED SENTENCE.  HERE'S ANOTHER ENGLISH LESSON:
A SENTENCE FRAGMENT fails to be a sentence in the sense that it cannot stand by itself. It does not contain even one independent clause.
It was simply a very rudimentary English lesson.  Something you learn in grade school!  How old are you?

[nyiregyhazi]

I have dealt with this style of trying to get members in trouble, so im sorry if I do not entertain anyone by elaborating. I really think that the over the top reaction to one of my fragmented sentence says it all.

Enjoy the stories that just don't add up in reality and are falling A PART, very amusing.

Admittedly it was a rather strange reaction. But what stories don't add up and why?

[lostinidlewonder]

LOST:
You really are lost when it comes to being educated in the language in which you speak.
IT IS NOT A FRAGMENTED SENTENCE.  *copy paste from google

Yeah you google fragmented sentence and choose one of the results, well done. Unfortunately Google cannot check if a sentence someone has typed is fragmented or not, unfortunate for you. My sentence "Your stories are falling a part." is a fragmented sentence because it makes no sense unless people understand my context. I can get away with using fragments because people can read about what I am reffering to above.


You have to realize when you object so strongly and immediately to someone who puts some resistance to you, it doesn't make you look good.  Somone who has nothing to hide at all will be calm, not say THIS IS MY LAST POST, and then start insulting people indirectly.

[flyinfingers]

I just insulted you directly.  There you go!
I could give a rat's you know what what you think of me!  You hurt my feelings and managed to upset me most of the day.  Does that make you happy?  I think it does.   Speaks volumes to your character.   Do you know what that is?
 

[keypeg]

Is that too much to ask?

It is too little to ask and it is the wrong thing to ask if you want to learn to play the
piano well.  Everything you described goes toward doing a piece, and none of it goes
toward developing the player.  If your present teacher sees weaknesses in technique,
and if your past teacher addressed only repertoire, might that not be why?

[flyinfingers]

KeyPeg, I was doing a lot technique with all of my past teachers.  Me and my sister were technique queens.  I was doing Exercises for Independence of the Fingers by I. Philipp plus numerous other exercises.
My present teacher doesn't believe in a lot of technique, and that's where we differ.  That's what I'm saying!  It doesn't matter -- I'm moving on.  I'm not going to conform to her methods which don't suit me.  Sorry I posted anything, seriously, I'm being bombarded and on top of that my feelings are getting hurt.  Just forget I even asked.  I have it figured out thanks to AJ and some others.  Seriously, I'm sorry but I feel like I'm on a merry go round!  I'm getting off and going for a ride on the roller coaster!  

[m1469]

Something that one of my present teachers once told me around the time I was starting with him was "You need to realize that there is a difference between what you want to learn and what you need to learn" ... I appreciated it then, but over time I have grown to appreciate what this means even more, and I will never forget it.  He knew what I needed, not only what I wanted.

[keypeg]

FlyingFingers, Ok.  I didn't get that from your other posts.

[nyiregyhazi]

Something that one of my present teachers once told me around the time I was starting with him was "You need to realize that there is a difference between what you want to learn and what you need to learn" ... I appreciated it then, but over time I have grown to appreciate what this means even more, and I will never forget it.  He knew what I needed, not only what I wanted.

Since when has spending a week learning a piece superficially and then moving on been what a student needs to "learn"? This sounds like the absolute opposite of situations where that applies. What you say means something where the student "wants" to skim through a thousand pieces but "needs" to get in the habit of finishing stuff. But when the student wants to finish pieces and the teacher is the one suggesting to move on?

[m1469]

Since when has spending a week learning a piece superficially and then moving on been what a student needs to "learn"? This sounds like the absolute opposite of situations where that applies. What you say means something where the student "wants" to skim through a thousand pieces but "needs" to get in the habit of finishing stuff. But when the student wants to finish pieces and the teacher is the one suggesting to move on?

Generally, I feel it's important for a teacher to have a sense of caring what a student needs and I feel this is something worth looking for, if looking for a teacher is in the works, which it sounds as though it is. 

If I were to take everything about the situation at face value, even though I wouldn't claim to understand in detail everything about the whys and hows of it, I would venture to say that the situation as described does not sound like one where the needs and/or wants of the student are being all too considered.

[keypeg]

...even though I wouldn't claim to understand in detail everything about the whys and hows of it, I would venture to say that the situation as described does not sound like one where the needs and/or wants of the student are being all too considered.

This alone would suggest it:

1.  Takes phone calls!  Yes, gets up and answers the phone -- each week!
2.  Talks about irrelevant stuff A LOT during my lesson, i.e., family, donating to the music assoc.
 

[m1469]

This alone would suggest it:

Not sure what your point is in quoting me as well as what you think of as evidence, since I was already taking it into consideration.

[mcdiddy1]

Well, I'm sorry to bother everyone AGAIN, but this is my third teacher in a few months.  I took lessons as a child and am taking again as an adult.  It may be that my teacher as a child was awesome but I'm wondering what to expect!
I have had three one-hour lessons with her and these are the current observations:
1.  Takes phone calls!  Yes, gets up and answers the phone -- each week!
2.  Talks about irrelevant stuff A LOT during my lesson, i.e., family, donating to the music assoc.
3.  Has not made ONE mark on my music.  Oh, yes, she put a baby sticker on my music -- I tore it off -- that said "good job" -- really?  
3.  Have played for less than 30 minutes (probably less, giving her the benefit of the doubt) in three hours' worth of lessons.
4.  Barely wants to hear any technique that I've practiced (says I should practice technique for 15 minutes a day, but I disagree).
5.  Doesn't even address the signature as I don't even remember how to count that well.
6.  Doesn't believe in perfecting pieces.  As a matter of fact, week 1, she gave me a piece two pages, played it like crapola on her piano (nerves mostly). That was week 2.  Didn't care.   Gave me a new piece, two whole pages, which you can't perfect, in my opinion, week 3, played it like crapola (nerves and too much to learn in one week) and added another page for next week!
I am really confused at what is good teaching.  I'm ready to move on to teacher no. 4!  Pretty soon I'll be blacklisted and no one will teach me!   It's not a big town!
Thanks for any input to clear this up.  I'm wondering if I'm expecting too much.  I could probably do a better job teaching myself if this keeps up, but I don't wish to do that -- YET!
Thanks so much!

Did you have a conversation with your teacher before starting lessons about what your expectations are and your teachers expectations?

[keypeg]

Not sure what your point is in quoting me as well as what you think of as evidence, since I was already taking it into consideration.

It was in agreement, and considering what you were saying, then looking back at the OP and coming to the same conclusions for the reason that I cited.

[cjp_piano]

....But speaking of that, having a teacher is better than having no teacher at all. 

Seriously? No way. Having a bad teacher is worse than having no teacher at all!

[flyinfingers]

Did you have a conversation with your teacher before starting lessons about what your expectations are and your teachers expectations?

No.  Big mistake!  I went to a lesson -- well, if you can call it that first time -- but I did immediately relay that I was big on technique and exercises and I really do love them.  She didn't seem to agree.  Then, I also reiterated that I would like to perfect pieces.  She also didn't seem to agree.  I also told her on day one that I expect her to help me with counting in rough spots and do fingering and she said, "Absolutely."
SO, today (fourth lesson) I went there and she only talked for 15 minutes of chit chat out of the hour -- I prefer not one minute other than hello!
Never addresses my technique exercise she gave me from last week.  
Asked me what I would like to play.  I really don't find this acceptable when it comes to technique.  SHe should know my weaknesses by now and address them head on and correct them.
SHe is trying very hard -- and spending an abundance of time on this -- trying to make me play with more relaxed wrists.  I really don't see it as a huge probem.  I still have the nerves and her very tense fifth and fourth finger action on her piano with the left hand that is a bugger to deal with.  I really like her as a person.  Would love to have her as a friend.  But I was so uncomfortable there today.  I think she senses something as she FINALLY wrote on my music today, fixed fingering in two spots on a Czerny exercise I brought out of an old book I had as a child.  I played a piece for her that I have been practicing for hours and hours from teacher No. 2(the one where she put the baby sticker on) and all she said was, "You had a great moment here (pointing to one measure)" and that was it!  I thought I played it pretty well -- few mistakes -- and very musically. Never got to play any music other than that because we spent way too much time on the Czerny exercise.
I'm just not seeing myself develop to my full potential.  I'm not getting any younger.
I'm going to post another idea I have.  I don't even know what to say to move on.  I really like her as a person.

[mcdiddy1]

Did you have a conversation with your teacher before starting lessons about what your expectations are and your teachers expectations?

No.  Big mistake!  I went to a lesson -- well, if you can call it that first time -- but I did immediately relay that I was big on technique and exercises and I really do love them.  She didn't seem to agree.  Then, I also reiterated that I would like to perfect pieces.  She also didn't seem to agree.  I also told her on day one that I expect her to help me with counting in rough spots and do fingering and she said, "Absolutely."
SO, today (fourth lesson) I went there and she only talked for 15 minutes of chit chat out of the hour -- I prefer not one minute other than hello!
Never addresses my technique exercise she gave me from last week.  
Asked me what I would like to play.  I really don't find this acceptable when it comes to technique.  SHe should know my weaknesses by now and address them head on and correct them.
SHe is trying very hard -- and spending an abundance of time on this -- trying to make me play with more relaxed wrists.  I really don't see it as a huge probem.  I still have the nerves and her very tense fifth and fourth finger action on her piano with the left hand that is a bugger to deal with.  I really like her as a person.  Would love to have her as a friend.  But I was so uncomfortable there today.  I think she senses something as she FINALLY wrote on my music today, fixed fingering in two spots on a Czerny exercise I brought out of an old book I had as a child.  I played a piece for her that I have been practicing for hours and hours from teacher No. 2(the one where she put the baby sticker on) and all she said was, "You had a great moment here (pointing to one measure)" and that was it!  I thought I played it pretty well -- few mistakes -- and very musically. Never got to play any music other than that because we spent way too much time on the Czerny exercise.
I'm just not seeing myself develop to my full potential.  I'm not getting any younger.
I'm going to post another idea I have.  I don't even know what to say to move on.  I really like her as a person.

I think the fact your teacher did not agree with what you said is a warning sign. It would be better if the teacher gave a rational on why she disagreed with your approach. You may want to considering going to a high level teacher, more on the university level, degree holding, with a good reputation as being a strong teacher. You may want to look piano festivals and competitions in your area and ask around on who would be an excellent teacher for an advance student. This teacher may be more of an appropriate teacher for a younger student and may not have enough experience teaching students at your level.

I think you fall into dangerous territory when a teacher/ student relationship becomes to personal. There is nothing wrong with a little chit chat but at the end of the day an effective  teacher should be friendly but not a friend while teaching the student. If the teacher is not professional enough to respect your time and behave in a way that is conductive to goal then you should find a new one. With me, my phone turns off, I face the student, analyze everything they do, put myself in the students' head, offer multiple solutions, and atleast 99 percent of the lesson is about the music.  I am not saying that to say I am a perfect teacher but rather this is what excellent teachers I have been around have done with me, and should be the professional standard for teachers. I think because you are a more knowledgeable student you have to take charge of your lessons on the front end to make sure you are getting what you need

[m1469]

With both of my teachers there was some form of communication prior to lessons beginning about expectations and I feel that expectations -even if not continually spoken about- maintain a level of clarity between us.  That doesn't mean everything's black and white, though.  I definitely had some sense of what I was looking for but in some sense, that only landed me there and as I quickly realized it was a right situation for me, that's when it's time to turn over the reigns (with the awareness that I still have to do the work).  If I really knew every last bit of what I need regarding my education and how and why, I wouldn't need a teacher.  At the same time, I don't think you can describe nice matches in the confines of exactly what every relationship and interaction should be like in order to be a great situation.  Everybody is different and since we are all human, it's not necessarily going to be "perfect" in a sterile sense.  

What I do know about myself is what it feels like when my circuits are crossed and shorting out and generally my aim has been to avoid this.  I think that most teachers are not "bad" teachers, actually, just not right matches.  It's a tricky thing to know yourself and have some sense of what you are looking for, while being open to a teacher truly guiding you in a way that you very well might not understand and which actually may lead you to greater understandings of yourself and how you function.  

It can be tricky to find the right one(s) and you may very well need to make sacrifices in order to find what you are looking for.  There are certain things that I teach and certain levels of proficiency that I expect each of my students to get to which, at this point anyway, if I have a student walk in the door and they are not willing to learn them, then it becomes apparent we are not the right match for one another.  That doesn't mean I am not taking into consideration their own goals - but rather that I see what is needed in order to reach them.

I have an adult acquaintance, for example, who for years acts as though she'd like to play the piano and while I've passed along information before, and even given a lesson, I felt there wasn't a true interest in playing.  And, I don't mean just a desire, but the willingness to set up a daily schedule that includes piano practice.  That is a point which, while it may not describe everybody in precise terms, is true about many people.  They might have a floating desire, but when it comes to putting in the work in the necessary ways, there is a disconnect (I'm still working on this myself).  So, I had a conversation with this woman again, somewhat recently, and she expressed an interest once again as well as wondering if it were too late for her to play more advanced pieces at some point down the road.  I thought that perhaps it was this psychological barrier which is coming across as a lack of interest, and so I sat down and we mapped out a plan.  Now, she doesn't live in my State, even, and so weekly lessons are out of the question.  But, upon asking her how it was going, she said she has spent some time doing it but while she figured some Christmas tunes out by ear one day, she was very surprised to have to figure it out again the next time she sat down!  I told her that this is precisely why daily practice is needed!

I have another adult student who comes to me every lesson as an educator herself, telling me exactly what she feels she wants that lesson and what needs to take place.  Honestly, she is a leftover student from years past and one who I would not accept in the same way at this point.  A couple of lessons ago she told me about her week -as she loves to do- and in her controlling way she tried to start the lesson when she was ready.  Fine, we proceeded along, until we came to a point in the lesson where she said she doesn't understand why she can't just play things!  This, after having detailed to me week after week that she doesn't practice and why.  I told her that generally playing takes more work than people realize (which is why there are so many "new" piano methods claiming to have you play on the first day ... many people want easy!), and I told her that she couldn't ask that question, at this point.  She could ask that question only if she were practicing an hour a day and things still were not coming together.  She very quickly stopped talking and resumed focus on our task at hand.  I still have some hope for her and for us.

Generally I find that, self-awareness is good, but acting and thinking as though you know everything about how everything should go, not as good.  That doesn't necessarily mean you have the right student/teacher match, though.

[nyiregyhazi]

Generally I find that, self-awareness is good, but acting and thinking as though you know everything about how everything should go, not as good.

What on earth does that have to do with this situation though? What have students who don't understand that they need to practise to progress got to do with someone how DOES- yet whose teacher has basically nothing to say about how to set about making improvements? Could the situations be any more contrasting?

[m1469]

I think a little more self-awareness doesn't hurt anybody, especially somebody in search of a potentially meaningful endeavor with somebody else.

[nyiregyhazi]

I think a little more self-awareness doesn't hurt anybody, especially somebody in search of a potentially meaningful endeavor with somebody else.

Self-awareness of what? That she wishes to develop pieces to a high standard, for example, rather than do one a week and waste time chatting? What are you basing the implied deficiency in self-awareness upon?

[m1469]

Behind wishes there are deeper histories, hopes, and motivations - which are the real points to be cared for.  More self-awareness in prioritizing what are those points and what is of utmost importance and why, and then how to live that in a way which leads to the right next steps.