Chopin Revolutionary Etude project

[caioramos]

Wow, can we really do this way? I'm not sure if it's easier, gonna try it...

[birba]

These are only a few comments on the first page of the etude.  I hope you can get something out of them! 

[caioramos]

Hello Birba,

Thanks a lot for the videos! I loved it, they are very enlightening for me. I need to work on those chords the way you showed me!

I can't watch the second video because it is set as private

[candlelightpiano]

Birba: Thank you for making this video for Kyle. This etude is on my list for pieces I'd like to learn after Fantasie so I've been following Kyle's progress and I'll be watching your videos for him. I couldn't view the second video either. It was marked Private.

[birba]

See if this works.

[caioramos]

Its working now! Thanks birba, I'm gonna study it!
I'll let you know how it is coming along =)

[ajspiano]

In the LH introduction passages I get my 4th finger up partly by rotating toward the thumb on the G and D notes. And exactly as birba did, the fluency of the passage was dramatically improved by practicing 4 note sections Ab G F D and Eb D B G.

Really agree with his comments re practicing slowly with musical intent separate hands. You don't want to set a lack of musicality into muscle memory.

Lastly, birba... Now I have to come up with new content for a different video because you stole 95% of my words (damn you - but, great work). Also, can you explain something a little more in depth..I'm not sure if I agree with the lateral forearm movement you describe for the arpegiated section ofthe left hand. It looks like it would be painful for me to execute this, though perhaps that's due to exaggerated movement in the video?  I've been using to 51531 fingering for these on the Bb A and Ab bass note phrases. I get 2 distinct hand positions that are very easy to play, and comfortable..  Theres probably some lateral movement in the second position to reach the Db and C respectively but it's seems like it would be fairly minor..?

(or major in the case of the inverted F arp. Ha Ha Ha).

[candlelightpiano]

Kyle: I watched Birba's second video. Oh, goodness! If he finds some of the passages difficult, how will we be able to play it? This piece makes Fantasie Impromptu look so easy and it's not.

[caioramos]

Choo: The funny thing is that there are some threads here where people compare Fantasie-impromptu with Rev Etude. And some people argue that Fantasie is more difficult! Which I clearly don't agree with since I'm studying both. Technically the Etude is more demanding, maybe musically the impromptu have the upper hand, its a more melodic piece.

I think moonlight sonata 3rd mov is way more difficult then these 2 haha

[ajspiano]

Kyle: I watched Birba's second video. Oh, goodness! If he finds some of the passages difficult, how will we be able to play it? This piece makes Fantasie Impromptu look so easy and it's not.

Everything's hard for anyone until its mastered. - how did you feel about 4 against 3 a few weeks ago? how do you feel now?

I think moonlight sonata 3rd mov is way more difficult then these 2 haha

No. I pretty much nailed that as a 13-14 year old. Granted it took me close to 18 months to learn but I don't think its harder..

It was also classed as a grade 8 under AMEB, though its not actually in the syllabus. I think the Rev is in LmusA. Though I may be mistaken, it could be just op 10, no 1,2,4 and 9 there.. 

[birba]

In the LH introduction passages I get my 4th finger up partly by rotating toward the thumb on the G and D notes. And exactly as birba did, the fluency of the passage was dramatically improved by practicing 4 note sections Ab G F D and Eb D B G.

Really agree with his comments re practicing slowly with musical intent separate hands. You don't want to set a lack of musicality into muscle memory.

Lastly, birba... Now I have to come up with new content for a different video because you stole 95% of my words (damn you - but, great work). Also, can you explain something a little more in depth..I'm not sure if I agree with the lateral forearm movement you describe for the arpegiated section ofthe left hand. It looks like it would be painful for me to execute this, though perhaps that's due to exaggerated movement in the video?  I've been using to 51531 fingering for these on the Bb A and Ab bass note phrases. I get 2 distinct hand positions that are very easy to play, and comfortable..  Theres probably some lateral movement in the second position to reach the Db and C respectively but it's seems like it would be fairly minor..?

(or major in the case of the inverted F arp. Ha Ha Ha).

Yes, it's just like you say.  there are two hand positions and there is a minimal lateral movement of the wrist to get to the top D, Db and C.   Keep in mind, when I demonstrate something in a slow tempo, the movements of the fingers, wrist and forearm are naturally exaggerated.

[caioramos]

Everything's hard for anyone until its mastered. - how did you feel about 4 against 3 a few weeks ago? how do you feel now?

No. I pretty much nailed that as a 13-14 year old. Granted it took me close to 18 months to learn but I don't think its harder..

It was also classed as a grade 8 under AMEB, though its not actually in the syllabus. I think the Rev is in LmusA. Though I may be mistaken, it could be just op 10, no 1,2,4 and 9 there.. 

Are you serious AJ?
So after I finish both pieces I will move on to moonlight 3rd!

[ajspiano]

Are you serious AJ?
So after I finish both pieces I will move on to moonlight 3rd!

Moonlight 3rd mov was my "piece that was way too hard" experience. I was a seriously determined little bastard though and I'd been waiting to take a crack at it since I was 4. THERE WAS NO STOPPING ME.

which is precisely why I believe you will succeed with this etude.

I think its probably harder than the fantasy, maybe on par with the rev..  its hard to tell, they all present different challenges. Thing is, if you're up to the challenge of any advanced piece you're probably up to the challenge of others.  The main challenge I faced with moonlight was getting to be able to execute a seriously badass alberti line..  oh and 4-5 trills at the same time as that.

EDIT:
ABRSM shows moonlight sonata complete on the list for dipABRSM..  you can perform any 2 chopin etudes from either op 10, or op 25 for the LRSM. So I'm probably about right in saying on par, the chopin may even me a touch harder? depends on your strengths as an individual pianist i guess..

Yes, it's just like you say.

Glad we are in agreement..

[ajspiano]

nothing instructional here..  i just feel a little bit like I should show a shot of me playing so I'm not just an internet stranger that may or may not be credible.

This is an excerpt from chopins polonaise - just the main theme, I've been working on this piece a bit lately.

Interesting to have videoed it and see some of the movements I'm doing that I was unaware of. Also, my wrists seem to be permanently raised, though I don't feel like they are like that when playing..  maybe because there's lots of octaves and chords? maybe also because the angle exaggerates it a bit?

It still needs alot of work I think, got to change fingerings int he right hand, and work on the general musicality. I think this redendition is a bit flat as far as dynamics.. the second half is pretty sloppy too..  I also need heaps of work dynamically in the E major section, though that isnt in this vid.

I've managed to cut off the last chord when i converted the file too..  oops.

[ajspiano]

In my ongoing postathon -

This is about 10 seconds of op 10 no 11 slowed down to half speed. Couldnt get the sound to work but the motion is clearly visible (more so in the later few seconds of this). This is what I meant about the turn of the arm/wrist for bar 55.

[caioramos]

Amazing polonaise interpretation AJ! Good Job!!
It raises me a question, how long do you play the piano? I love your technique, your are pretty accurate, also, love your pedaling! How you make some passages sound cleaner, the rests, or am I seen your playing through a rose tinted glasses or I could go forever telling you how I liked your playing haha, makes your digital even sound like a grand

[ajspiano]

* fixed you're post.

Polonaise interpretation is coming along AJ! keep at it!!
It raises a question, how long do you play the piano? your technique is good in places but in others needs work, your are pretty inaccurate at times - especially the RH melody chords in the second half, also, your pedaling can be muddy at times, some passages sound clean but others are still messy.

Remember, this piece is marked maestoso - you should watch Horowitz. THAT, is maestoso.

As you can see I'm pretty self critical - but I have to be to get anywhere without a strong teacher guiding me.

..seriously though..  you can't see my RH, its got some real issues in this piece i think. The fingering is all messed up and its placing my hand off balance, which is limiting how much power I can put into the melody. Also, I have to remember to really drop onto the left hand octaves in the so that I get a full resonant forte tone. I tend to fail at this when I focus on being accurate with the RH.

how long do you play the piano?

Do you mean daily practice regime or number of years?

I took lessons from age 5 till my mid teens..  i'm now 23, i gave up on lessons because there was no adequate teacher and self study is more efficient for me anyway I think (i'm pretty good at digging up information for free). I became a teacher myself because so many people kept asking me for lessons, I started teaching as a 16 year old thinking that it was completely insane that people wanted my advice..

Daily I do not practice anywhere near consistently, whatever I have time for.

[caioramos]

It's good to be self-critical, to be honest, its fundamental, until it begins to undermine your confidence in your playing and your capabilities. But that's not your case I guess, being self-critical is the way to improve.

Makes me realize how of a long way I still have to go, one thing is watching tops like horowitz playing good (ok brilliantly), other is seeing normal people playing good. I told you I'm going to move to Canada next month to attend a conservatory right? I hope I don't feel like a trash in the midst of so many good people there..

Yeah I meant how many years of playing. That's quite a lot, almost 20, and 10 of lessons!

Man, keep it up, you have to be a very good teacher

[ajspiano]

20 years seems a bit excessive..  I think I'd be better with a teacher who'd pushed me to play harder material earlier. I did AMEB grade exams and didnt really have to practice much to get by..

I also got heavily distracted from piano as a teenager too because I just wanted to play in a punk rock band with my friends. - i'm a pretty solid guitarist and drummer as a result.

Point being I might have first played the piano nearly 20 years ago, but I don't have 20 years of dedicated practice under me.

I doubt you'll feel out of place at the conservatory. I mean maybe, but if that is the case, being surrounded by good musicians will pretty rapidly turn you into a good musician.

[candlelightpiano]

AJ: Your polonaise was pretty cool! I've liked that piece ever since I first heard Artur Rubenstein play it years ago. Your wrists look so relaxed, unlike mine. I don't know when I'll ever have such relaxed wrists. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it very much. I didn't doubt that you were who you said you were. You seemed to know what you were talking about.

[caioramos]

20 years seems a bit excessive..  I think I'd be better with a teacher who'd pushed me to play harder material earlier. I did AMEB grade exams and didn't really have to practice much to get by..

There was this discussion in another thread I was reading, and one said some people jump to harder materials, work really hard on them, and although they can play it, its very bad because they probably skipped a lot of early basic fundamentals you get by progressing slowly by easier pieces, and that will make the difference in the end. What do you think of that statement?

[birba]

That was very fine playing, indeed, ajspiano!  A little bit too much rubato for my tastes, but you have a solid sound and technique.  (though with these digital pianos it's a little hard to judge tone).  I'm assuming you've played the whole thing?

[cmg]

There was this discussion in another thread I was reading, and one said some people jump to harder materials, work really hard on them, and although they can play it, its very bad because they probably skipped a lot of early basic fundamentals you get by progressing slowly by easier pieces, and that will make the difference in the end. What do you think of that statement?

I think you need to face the fact that any extraordinary struggle to master a piece usually indicates that you're not technically ready to approach it.  Remedy the technical problems first as any athlete would and then revisit the piece.  If any pianist is ready to play the "Revolutionary," he or she will be able to get the notes in his or her hands in a matter of a few days.  The piece is not that challenging technically.  Making it musical, however, is another matter entirely.  That's the real work in great music.  That's the challenge of this etude.  

[candlelightpiano]

Kyle: With so much information posted here for your etude, do you think you can figure it out? 

Merry Christmas!

[candlelightpiano]

It's basically where I have to look at. If I keep my eyes on my right hand, I make a mistake on the left. If I look at my left hand, I make mistake on the right hand rolled chord.

Kyle: I guess I wasn't following your topic that much because I missed this comment. I thought it was quite funny!

[ajspiano]

makes your digital even sound like a grand

https://www.pianoteq.com/

I think the Rev is in LmusA.

Confirmed, looked at the syllabus last night. Tough Stuff.

A little bit too much rubato for my tastes - I'm assuming you've played the whole thing?

I'm inclined to agree about the rubato I think, something to work on. Yes, I've played the whole thing, I learnt it a long time ago (think I was 16 or 17) but never got it to standard - struggled with the octaves in the middle section. I've been touching everything up just lately, hoping to be able to do it justice finally.

There was this discussion in another thread I was reading, and one said some people jump to harder materials, work really hard on them, and although they can play it, its very bad because they probably skipped a lot of early basic fundamentals you get by progressing slowly by easier pieces, and that will make the difference in the end. What do you think of that statement?

I'm inclined to agree with cmg, I don't think its a great idea - but its not really a black and white decision. Its heavily dependent on the student and the teacher, and, motivation to learn a piece is so important - The student won't get anywhere if they are studying 5 pieces they don't like because they won't practice. It also takes a pretty strong will to persevere with something thats too hard. And you could perhaps argue that if a student perseveres and learns the piece then it wasnt too hard. The fact that they may not play it like a professional, or it would take a very long time to get to a professional standard is also fairly irrelevant as an argument - I tend to play grade 1 pieces better than my grade 1 students funnily enough.

I doubt many students have a perfect journey to virtuosity. For most people there is no doubt many instances of bad technique that are corrected over an extended period and over the study of multiple pieces. If we constantly corrected every little problem with technique at the lower levels we'd spend far to much time focused on that and devote no time to learning other aspects of playing the piano and music in general. This is why getting to be really good takes years, or decades. There's too much to learn in one sitting.

[caioramos]

AJ! It's been quite a while!
How was christmas?

Yeah thats what I've been thinking, my teacher is pretty perfectionist, but sometimes I get this feeling that I would be progressing much more if I just moved on to a new piece instead of working more and more on something that's not up to my abilities at the moment. But I agree too that we can't tackle impossible pieces. This etude I've been doing pretty good, that's the only reason I keep at it, even if I can't make to a performance level now, I will someday when go back to it, meanwhile my left hand is getting a lot better than it was before I started, so it's already positive

[ajspiano]

AJ! It's been quite a while!
How was christmas?

Stormy - Hail stones the size of golfballs.

my teacher is pretty perfectionist, but sometimes I get this feeling that I would be progressing much more if I just moved on to a new piece instead of working more and more on something that's not up to my abilities...

its all dependent on you're goal for your playing..  If a student says to the teacher "I will do whatever you say, make me a concert pianist" the teaching focus and piece selection is going to be different to "I just want to have some fun and learn to play something I saw on youtube" - the whole idea of private tuition is to get a unique course of study that works for each individual - not to give the same course of study to every individual.

EDIT:
Its also a pretty difficult job for the teacher to get this exactly right when they only see you once a week for 30 mins or an hour.. especially when everyone's progressing at different rates.

Something to consider: Say you had a top teacher supervising all of your practice throughout the week (several hours a day) making little adjustments/suggestions every few repetitions of any given passage. How would this effect your ability to tackle pieces pieces that are supposedly too hard for you.

[candlelightpiano]

AJ: I hope your car wasn't outside during the hail.

I read your question to Kyle about the top teacher making adjustments everyday - I suppose you'd be able to play pieces you thought too difficult if someone was supervising so closely. Is that right?

[ajspiano]

thats the theory..

ofcourse I don't have any data on the matter. How many people can afford 10+ hours of piano lessons per week?

if you read bernhards posts though, you'll see he talks about giving five 15 min lessons per week for beginners. He also says more or less all his students are capable of playing bach inventions within 3-5 months of lessons..

[candlelightpiano]

That's interesting and I think it's absolutely possible with more frequency of lessons but of course, you need a motivated pupil. I was in an accelerated program for 2 - 3 years, not exactly sure how long now. For the first 6 months, I had 1/2 hr lessons twice a week. I was an absolute beginner. Within 6 months, I was playing at a Gr 2-3 level for ABRSM. By the end of the first year, I was taking my Gr 4 exam but was already playing at Gr 5-6 (I think I was playing some Mozart sonatas). By that time, I was taking several lessons a week, maybe 3 lessons for 45 mins each. Then, in Texas, it was the same thing and within another year or two, I was playing Schubert Impromptus, one early Beethoven sonata, I believe, and had done a couple of Inventions.

[ajspiano]

Kyle:
How are you going with the LH in bars 15-16 and 55-56.. 

Based on your video I have a note grouping suggestion for this that I can put into a video, dont want to cover something you may have already adjusted though.. its been a while since we've seen how you are going..

Also have something for the hands together run in the intro though again you may have adjusted already..

?

[caioramos]

Kyle:
How are you going with the LH in bars 15-16 and 55-56..  

Based on your video I have a note grouping suggestion for this that I can put into a video, dont want to cover something you may have already adjusted though.. its been a while since we've seen how you are going..

Also have something for the hands together run in the intro though again you may have adjusted already..

?

Hi AJ

Sorry for not getting an update the last 2 weeks, its just Xmas and New year and Im away from home, it was not a very good time to start learning this piece cause Im so busy. But Ill be back home by tomorrow and finally I think I will have time to make a new recording for my project before I start to pack to Canada.

The LH for bars 15-16 and 55-56 are super easy, in fact you know what, I finished memorizing the piece and to be very honest, the LH is the easy part ironically, for me the RH chords are much more challenging, like bar 62, its amazingly difficult for me HT, but HS the RH is easy, problem is playing them together because when you go up the tempo the RH seems too fast, so what Ive been hearing on recordings is that people slow a bit. Also bar 55 rolled chord is still giving me a hard time to really nail it.

HS the piece is really easy for me, both hands. Now HT Im struggling a bit on those bars I mentioned. Also the whole 2nd page is hard to play perfectly, sometimes I get it right sometimes not, still need to work the accuracy on it. I love the 4th page. 1st and 4th pages are coming along pretty well. 2nd is ok, 3rd is the one needing most work now. Im also using pedals, I think I found my own pedaling, Im using a lot of half pedal on the chromatic runs to soft the blurr and make ir more clear.

[candlelightpiano]

Kyle: Your progress sounds very good. I look forward to another video from you, hopefully before you come up to Calgary. I hope to make another video next week, too.

[ajspiano]

It's interesting that you would say that Kyle, I personally find the RH extremely easy. The LH is mostly ok, except for a few patches. Working bar by bar I can now play most left hand phrases above the final tempo without too much trouble. I pushed them to 176 to the crotchet to work out fast paced motions.

I'd like to see a new video and here some detailed descriptions about exactly what is difficult, then perhaps I can post something to help with the RH. A lot of the RH can be put into groups of 2 chords which are played as 1st chord forearm, second chord wrist, as well as slight forward and backward momentum.. Which probably doesn't make a lot of sense without a visual.. But I think you will need to fix the breaking wrist/over curled fingers first in order to get it right..  Can you post a vid of some of the RH your having trouble with.. Both separately and together?

[candlelightpiano]

Kyle: I look forward to your progress video as I hope to be doing this piece this year after Fantasie, maybe. It's good to hear you say that some of the passages are easy!  Helps with my lack of confidence.

[caioramos]

The revolutionary etude is not proving to be a real challenge for me, its an ok challenge, but the difference in difficulty between it and Op 10 no.4 is so huge that its funny. I feel that when I finish mastering this, I still will not be able to even attempt op10 no4 (aka Torrent etude). Maybe I will stick to the Black Keys etude or Moonlight sonata 3mvt.

[candlelightpiano]

The revolutionary etude is not proving to be a real challenge for me, its an ok challenge, but the difference in difficulty between it and Op 10 no.4 is so huge that its funny. I feel that when I finish mastering this, I still will not be able to even attempt op10 no4 (aka Torrent etude). Maybe I will stick to the Black Keys etude or Moonlight sonata 3mvt.

What is Op 10 No 4? A Chopin etude? I thought AJ said Moonlight 3rd mvmt is easier than Revolutionary etude?

[caioramos]

Choo!

Yes! it is another Chopin Etude, this is the famous op10 no4, you probably heard it before..

[candlelightpiano]

OMG, Kyle! I will never be able to play that in a million years!!!!!!

[caioramos]

It's freaking insanely difficult! Of course she plays it damn fast, it's ok to play a little slower, it's more achievable, I can't play the revolutionary etude the speed she plays as well.

But I hope to be able to play this op10no4 in a year or 2. Well, If I can play it at all I will be very happy by the time 

[ajspiano]

No 1 and 2 are tough for me, and winterwind.

I started on 4 a while ago.. Been a bit distracted though and haven't played it much.. I didn't find it that horrid. I put the first page together at near full speed on day 1. Later sections are likely tougher though.

Should challenge you.. See who can learn it the fastest..

[caioramos]

So it's been around 15 days I started learning this piece and finally I just recorded a new video, the second one, it's a very honest recording which means I didn't record as many times for a good take, I just played once through so there you can see some obvious mistakes which I need to work and polish. In fact I made mistakes on a couple easier parts I usually play fine (like bars 28 and 36), and I played well the difficult parts I usually screw up like the whole 3rd page (of course there is still a lot to perfect).. I also made a huge stumble on bar 67 which I usually play fine.

Recording these videos I came to realize how bad the sound of my digital piano is, it sounds too... digital?   or maybe is my cellphone, cause it doesn't sound too bad here at home, or I'm used to it, I don't know...

[caioramos]

Updated

[candlelightpiano]

GOOD JOB, KYLE! What a great improvement from 2 weeks ago! I'm stunned!! Within another two weeks, you should be able to perform it at concert!

[ajspiano]

Fantastic work Kyle.

Please consider carefully, angle makes for misinterpretation etc. etc.
LH - 4th finger often looks curled and raised, means unnecessary tension in the LH which will inhibit speed and expression.

RH - wrist is looking a lot better, and more stable than the first video. but its feels stiff overall. You need to think of groups of two chords as one overall motion. This will allow you to loosen up and get the pace and rhythm.. At the moment you sound like this..
Da, dum ..da, dum
Instead of
Da-dum, da-dum

If that makes any sense at all..

I can help with this I'm sure, will post a video in the near future.. Hopefully tonight..

Intro- in the fast hands together section you need to move into the black keys a bit then rotate over to the higher notes for the next run down, this will speed upthe transition and make the passage more fluent. I will talk about this and demonstrate in the video as well.

I think there are RH moment that you can get deeper into the keys aswell to get a more comfortable hand position and more power behind each note within the chord.

Oh yeh..  and get a piano stool.. seriously? a swiveling office chair? how are you comfortable like that?  the thing has arm rests.. how are you supposed to move freely?

..LH bar 25-26, 53231 fingering drives me insane. It was seriously painful and stretchy..  I changed that to 52151512, its way more comfortable for me, but you need to think in defined groups of 3 notes, 521 / 515 / 12|5 and back it up with the right arm movement ..I changed this because the 323 fingering was causing a bad twist in my wrist. Anyone can feel free to weigh in on this, I could easily just be failing to rotate to the thumb properly i think.. I can play it with 323 once without trouble but if I cycle it at tempo it causes real problems.I havent spent a lot of time on this section yet though..  so that may also be a consideration here..

RH - Bar 27. note the slur between the 3 and 4th beats, specifically that it is NOT between the 4th beat dotted quaver and semiquaver..  lift your hand between these notes..  make the phrase connect from the chords of DFBbD and EbFAD.. then separate (lift hand/arm), land the next phrase as the C, then DFBb.

The LH for bars 15-16 and 55-56 are super easy, in fact you know what, I finished memorizing the piece and to be very honest, the LH is the easy part ironically, for me the RH chords are much more challenging, like bar 62, its amazingly difficult for me HT, but HS the RH is easy, problem is playing them together because when you go up the tempo the RH seems too fast, so what Ive been hearing on recordings is that people slow a bit.

Do your thoughts about the LH hold true at 76 to the minum, or only at a slower tempo, say 112-132 to the crotchet?

I feel like the RH melody has a bit of rubato, while the left hand is more consistent. I've seen some people comment that this piece should be played without rubato, though whenever I try that I start to feel like a robot. Its awfully mechanical and I don't like it at all. The trick seems to be in slight rhythmic variations for the right hand, creating pauses and accents.. while keeping the left hand very flowing and holding the piece's tempo together. Who knows though, I may change my mind about that.

RH needs work at bar 55, you have curling and next to no rotation, i would imagine if you try to go much faster this totally falls apart or atleast takes enormous mental focus to execute accurately. Will talk about in video.

This one is extremely difficult to confirm from the angle of the video, so you will have to observe yourself..  With your RH, after you play each chord I get a sense that you are stretched out to the width of an octave instead of letting your hand relax? is this the case? If you watch lisitsa again, you can see (its hard to spot but its there) that between each set of chords when she lifts her hand her fingers all relax and come back to their natural position. You can also see exactly what I mean about the technique behind each group of two chords. If you can pull the video of youtube and play it at half speed this is much easier to see, the first action forearm, second action wrist (as one motion) becomes a lot clearer.. I will try to explain better in video this evening..

Overall you have done extremely well, I would really enjoy teaching you I think.. Though I also think you'd outgrow me fairly quickly


Edit:

The revolutionary etude is not proving to be a real challenge for me

I understand you're point (in that it hasnt taken you long to memorise the notes and essentially play through at a decent pace), but I have to say this may me chuckle a fair bit..   You have mountains to attend to before you'll be able to play it at concert standard. I'm sure you do realize that though.. ..i'll also add that this is something that applies to me in a big way when i say that Op 10/4 isnt that hard for me. Getting to "can play the notes" is easy, getting to performance standard and "can feel the music" is a totally different thing.

[williampiano]

Hello Kyle! I just listened to your new recording and it seems like you have improved a lot since you first started playing this piece. I just noticed a few things you might want to look out for:
First of all, it seems as though when transitioning from measures 2 to 3, and 4 to 5, there are unnecessary pauses and it seems that you paused like this in many other parts of the piece. For now, you should probably play this piece at a slower tempo, so there aren't as many random starts and stops.
Also, some of the runs in the left hand seem a bit clustered and unstable. Some slow practice, hands separate, with a metronome would definitely be needed.
You also might want to start including some dynamics and articulation to make the piece more interesting. Lookout for accents, sforzandos, crescendos, fortes etc. It would give your performance more character.
Other than that, I think as long as you keep trying and you practice slowly and carefully, you should be able to perfect this piece and perform it at a very high level! You've made a lot of progress in just two weeks! Keep up the good work!

[caioramos]

Please consider carefully, angle makes for misinterpretation etc. etc.
LH - 4th finger often looks curled and raised, means unnecessary tension in the LH which will inhibit speed and expression.

When I'm playing I can't notice this but as I watch my own video I surely can, I will try to make it more relaxed and curled

RH - wrist is looking a lot better, and more stable than the first video. but its feels stiff overall. You need to think of groups of two chords as one overall motion. This will allow you to loosen up and get the pace and rhythm.. At the moment you sound like this..
Da, dum ..da, dum
Instead of
Da-dum, da-dum

If that makes any sense at all..

Yeah! sure it does make sense, I know what you mean. I think the cause of the stiffness is more due to still not feeling totally comfortable and secure to play the RH passages with enough confidence to make it totally relaxed. When I try to do it HS I can do the right movement, it's like a claw, in a sense you play the chord or octaves and then relax your hand to the natural position.

Intro- in the fast hands together section you need to move into the black keys a bit then rotate over to the higher notes for the next run down, this will speed upthe transition and make the passage more fluent. I will talk about this and demonstrate in the video as well.

I think there are RH moment that you can get deeper into the keys aswell to get a more comfortable hand position and more power behind each note within the chord.

This is quite hard to understand what you mean, I think it will be clearer by the video! =)

Oh yeh..  and get a piano stool.. seriously? a swiveling office chair? how are you comfortable like that?  the thing has arm rests.. how are you supposed to move freely?

lol, you are totally right! It just happen that my computer table is just next to it, so I use the chair for both playing and computer, but anyway, now that I'm moving this will no longer be a problem!

RH - Bar 27. note the slur between the 3 and 4th beats, specifically that it is NOT between the 4th beat dotted quaver and semiquaver..  lift your hand between these notes..  make the phrase connect from the chords of DFBbD and EbFAD.. then separate (lift hand/arm), land the next phrase as the C, then DFBb.

I'm not sure what you mean here as well.

Do your thoughts about the LH hold true at 76 to the minum, or only at a slower tempo, say 112-132 to the crotchet?

I mean at a slower tempo like about 120 to the crotchet. Playing this piece at 160 is way too fast, and I recognize its way difficult for me for now. But you know, if you watch Lisitsa video, she starts the piece at 160 (the intro) but after that she plays about 130. My guess is that 160 is a reasonably fast tempo for the descending runs but it doesn't suit the rest of the piece where the beautiful chords comes in. So I think it's fair enough for a performance to play the whole thing at about 120-130. And also, the piece is marked as Allegro, and as far as I know, Allegro is around 120-140... 160 is already presto, so I don't know what is with the 160 marking. Even if I was capable of playing at that speed I wouldn't in a recital honestly, it just doesn't feel very good.

I feel like the RH melody has a bit of rubato, while the left hand is more consistent. I've seen some people comment that this piece should be played without rubato, though whenever I try that I start to feel like a robot. Its awfully mechanical and I don't like it at all. The trick seems to be in slight rhythmic variations for the right hand, creating pauses and accents.. while keeping the left hand very flowing and holding the piece's tempo together. Who knows though, I may change my mind about that.

I agree, I think rubato is quite needed for given more expression on some RH octaves.

RH needs work at bar 55, you have curling and next to no rotation, i would imagine if you try to go much faster this totally falls apart or atleast takes enormous mental focus to execute accurately. Will talk about in video.

What can I say? bar 55 is a killer for me, I'm just taking my time to get it right, I'm practicing it slowly to a point I can play it right without looking at my RH

Overall you have done extremely well, I would really enjoy teaching you I think.. Though I also think you'd outgrow me fairly quickly

I'm flattered! Thanks for the comments AJ, I'm doing my best, I hope I can reach my goals as a pianist one day!

Edit:I understand you're point (in that it hasnt taken you long to memorise the notes and essentially play through at a decent pace), but I have to say this may me chuckle a fair bit..   You have mountains to attend to before you'll be able to play it at concert standard. I'm sure you do realize that though.. ..i'll also add that this is something that applies to me in a big way when i say that Op 10/4 isnt that hard for me. Getting to "can play the notes" is easy, getting to performance standard and "can feel the music" is a totally different thing.

Yeah! That's exactly what I mean by challenge, I surely know this is far from a performance level. I think different people have different views for what a real challenge is. For me challenge is something bigger and ambitious. The moment I could play through this piece from start to end at a decent speed, despite my mistakes, it makes me feel it's now just a matter of time to master it, it's not something that I still wonder If I will be able to do it anyhow, so most of the challenge is gone, It's an ok challenge because I know I will still have some trouble polishing it to perfect and making it musically good.. but it's attainable, the piece is overall beaten.

Now, for example etude op10 no4, is a real challenge because maybe If I started learning it today, I could make some progress, maybe if I really worked my best I could play it at a decent level (like the rev etude now), but maybe not, maybe the piece is still far from me. So its a real challenge. And then there's impossible challenges like, playing Chopin Ballade no1 or Stravinsky Petrouchka, this is clearly impossible for me now, so it's a distant challenge.

[ajspiano]

When I'm playing I can't notice this but as I watch my own video I surely can, I will try to make it more relaxed and curled

I will make sure to explain the difference between curling and curving in video.

I'm not sure what you mean here as well.

in and out movements will be blatantly clear and obvious with a visual example, you will have no trouble implementing this. The improvement will also be felt immediately both in the comfort of playing the passage and the fluency of the sound...  the RH lift I talked about will also likely be very clear too, but may take a few goes to get it right

What can I say? bar 55 is a killer for me, I'm just taking my time to get it right, I'm practicing it slowly to a point I can play it right without looking at my RH

At this point the way you are playing it (assuming you are consistent with the way its done in the video) means that its unlikely you'll ever get there - Practice won't help, you need to change how you are moving. You would find this very evident if you tried to play Op 10/11, some of the larger chords would be nigh impossible for you..  and pieces like la campanella would lead you to years of frustration.

[caioramos]

Hello Kyle! I just listened to your new recording and it seems like you have improved a lot since you first started playing this piece. I just noticed a few things you might want to look out for:
First of all, it seems as though when transitioning from measures 2 to 3, and 4 to 5, there are unnecessary pauses and it seems that you paused like this in many other parts of the piece. For now, you should probably play this piece at a slower tempo, so there aren't as many random starts and stops.
Also, some of the runs in the left hand seem a bit clustered and unstable. Some slow practice, hands separate, with a metronome would definitely be needed.
You also might want to start including some dynamics and articulation to make the piece more interesting. Lookout for accents, sforzandos, crescendos, fortes etc. It would give your performance more character.
Other than that, I think as long as you keep trying and you practice slowly and carefully, you should be able to perfect this piece and perform it at a very high level! You've made a lot of progress in just two weeks! Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your comments william!
I'm gonna pay attention to the dynamics now, and play slowly to get it really polished and clear! Still working on sections to focus the harder ones. I will also try to pay attention to the pace with the metronome.