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Topic: Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat  (Read 1677 times)

Offline charmsjr94

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Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat
on: January 06, 2012, 08:35:59 AM
Hi

This is a Schubert Impromptu I spent a couple weeks learning for my college auditions. I recorded it on my iPod and I think the audio isn't great. It makes the pedal muddy and doesn't really pick up a lot of the dynamic change. I make a couple slips but nothing bad and this is generally how I perform it.

If anyone could provide feedback that would be most appreciated. Thank you!

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat
Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 09:52:44 PM
I don't know... It's something about being sort of happy with a result that I don't get. The slips are too many, for this sort of piece. And, by the looks in your head, and arms, you're pushing like if it was a death wish by Liszt.

Okay... You need to find more lines in the beautiful melody - what is the highlight, where can you take time, where shouldn't you take time. Also more colour, and more about the philosophy of the piece. He only wrote 8 impromptus, and they are all very different. What's special about this one? And more important, why do you play it?

All that has to reflect in your playing. Right now, it sounds like you're upset because you feel it's way too easy for you, but your teacher insisted that you should play it, so now you're going to show her. And that's not what this piece is about...

I don't know what more to say. I don't want to tell you how to phrase, or where to take time. Think of the things I mentioned, and come back again.

And oh, get some sort of recording device, that isn't an iPod.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat
Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 02:35:46 AM
Hi charmsjr,

I think pianoman raises some interesting questions above.  I believe it's very good advice.

I also listened to your impromptu.  There are some things that I like, but some other things which you could do differently for better effect in my opinion.  Please permit me to make a few comments here.

First, remember that Schubert was a transitional composer.  He had one foot in the Viennese Classical style and the other in very early Romanticism.  And given the latter inclination, there is truly a lot of poetry in this piece--but it's not all coming through to the listener quite yet.

In general, your playing at times seems more mechanical than musical.  It's certainly OK to sometimes use a mechanical technique to improve articulation.  But performance has to be musical at all times.  So again, you need to find the poetry in this music.  Part of this would be to emphasize the melody like a cantabile line, keeping it always in the foreground.  (Think of Schubert's lieder.)  The left hand has important harmonies but is still accompaniment, so needs to be more in the background.  You succeed in controlling the LH well.  

Another general point is that I don't hear enough attention to the contrasting dynamics in the score. Dynamics range from ffz to pp with many changes, not to mention crescendo-decrescendo moments.  So much more differentiation is required there.  The forte playing mostly prevails although some of this, to be fair, could be due to your mic and recorder.

Finally, my last general comment is the pedaling.  Right now I believe the piece is over-pedaled such that you have  washes of sound at times.  The neighboring and passing tone figurations require many changes of pedal, or half-pedals to spill out overtones.  Always pedal for clarity--in this case, the melodic line in particular.

Some things I like:  In the LH you're voicing the bottom notes within the double notes, which is the correct approach.  For the most part you're attaining accuracy, but with some occasional slips.  Those places need more careful practicing to make the notes more secure under your hands.  I believe that you have the ability to play this music quite well if you focus far more now on musicality, poetry and fluidity.

Some suggestions:

Because the melodic line is cantabile, even if not marked as such, what you're actually trying to do there with the piano is to emulate the human voice. So, in the first line, 4th full measure, subtly add some space between the half note chord and the two E flats following. Think of a singer taking a breath.  (When you accompany a singer, you need to be sensitive to allowing them to breathe after phrases.)  It's just a very slight pause, nothing dramatic like a fermata or comma.  Same in measures 8 and 11.

In 27 you can stretch the appogiatura there to make it more poetic.

In 29 you can do a slight, tasteful ritardando moving toward the fermata in measure 30.

Over in the Trio, here is the single biggest thing to remember: It cannot sound "notey"!  As it now stands, it's very notey.  You need to subdue all of that and to create more the sense of fluid playing.  Notice that the first three lines are marked p down to pp. So much quieter at the outset! Only in the next part does it become louder.

In measure 48 and 49 and elsewhere, notice how Schubert marks the tops of the RH figures with rinforzando accents.  So he's making a point there for execution, yet he clearly doesn't want the rinforzado effect throughout the trio, or had he wanted that he would likely have notated it.  Yet the tops (peaks) of those figures are a very important element of this figuration.  So, how to sufficiently bring them out a bit?  The trick (where there are no rinforzando accents) is to rely instead (and intuitively) on a milder tenuto touch, which allows some added emphasis.  This approach provides further differentiation from the stronger rinforzandos.  

In 67 and 68, the tenuto touch is deployed differently.  There the tenutos are on the first note of each of the six triplets.  Why?  Because there you have a scalar passage on those first notes in the RH: F#, G#, A and in the next measure G#, A, B and in the next measure C#, all of which you'll want to bring out for the listener, as those notes are truly the point of interest there.

Incidentally, in the Trio the LH plays what we call a ground bass (basso ostinato). This is a bass figuration usually of four measures (sometimes it can be up to 8 measures) that is repeated throughout a movement, sometimes with a degree of variation.  This predictable bass allows the more imaginative and charming melodic line in the RH to really be in the limelight of the foreground.

At the reprise of the first melody at measure around 99 at the sempre legato marked pp, don't forget the singer taking breaths at 102, 106, 110, 132, 136, and 140.  Again, subtle!  

In the next to last measure, although the top notes in the RH are voiced, here, a bit quieter, you'll want to make sure that the harmonic middle voices are also heard to beautify the texture there. (Right now there are wrong notes needing attention.)

Finally, be aware of differentiating touch as necessary. Notice, for example, in full measure 17, you have the first two chords under a slur marking but also with staccato dots under the notes.  The combination implies portato touch--a heavier, pressing touch.  But shortly afterward in 19 you have three purely staccato chords.  The two touches must sound entirely different.  Same thing in 22 and 23, 116 and 117, 120 and 121.  At the moment there is no apparent difference.  You also have isolated staccato chords in places: 45, 143 and 147.  These are not being heard either.  Whereas the damper pedal is sustaining, I would avoid using it with short staccato touch, as it tends to rob the touch of its intended effect.

I hope some of this is helpful.  I posted a recording here years ago (the recording dating from 1987 actually, so analog, not digital sound).  This way sound can be worth a thousand words.  If you're interested, here is the link:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,18860.0.html

I also want to wish you the best of luck in your college auditions.

David

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline starstruck5

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Re: Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat
Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 08:20:49 PM
Hi charmsjr,

I think pianoman raising some interesting question above.  I believe it's very good advice.

I also listened to your impromptu.  There are some things that I like, but some other things which you could do differently for better effect in my opinion.  Please permit me to make a few comments here.

First, remember that Schubert was a transitional composer.  He had one foot in the Viennese Classical style and the other in very early Romanticism.  And given the latter inclination, there is truly a lot of poetry in this piece--but it's not all coming through to the listener quite yet.

In general, your playing at times seems more mechanical than musical.  It's certainly OK to sometimes use a mechanical technique to improve articulation.  But performance has to be musical at all times.  So again, you need to find the poetry in this music.  Part of this would be to emphasize the melody like a cantabile line, keeping it always in the foreground.  (Think of Schubert's lieder.)  The left hand has important harmonies but is still accompaniment, so needs to be more in the background.  You succeed in controlling the LH well.  

Another general point is that I don't hear enough attention to the contrasting dynamics in the score. Dynamics range from ffz to pp with many changes, not to mention crescendo-decrescendo moments.  So much more differentiation is required there.  The forte playing mostly prevails although some of this, to be fair, could be due to your mic and recorder.

Finally, my last general comment is the pedaling.  Right now I believe the piece is over-pedaled such that you have  washes of sound at times.  The neighboring and passing tone figurations require many changes of pedal, or half-pedals to spill out overtones.  Always pedal for clarity--in this case, the melodic line in particular.

Some things I like:  In the LH you're voicing the bottom notes within the double notes, which is the correct approach.  For the most part you're attaining accuracy, but with some occasional slips.  Those places need more careful practicing to make the notes more secure under your hands.  I believe that you have the ability to play this music quite well if you focus far more now on musicality, poetry and fluidity.

Some suggestions:

Because the melodic line is cantabile, even if not marked as such, what you're actually trying to do there with the piano is to emulate the human voice. So, in the first line, 4th full measure, subtly add some space between the half note chord and the two E flats following. Think of a singer taking a breath.  (When you accompany a singer, you need to be sensitive to allowing them to breathe after phrases.)  It's just a very slight pause, nothing dramatic like a fermata or comma.  Same in measures 8 and 11.

In 27 you can stretch the appogiatura there to make it more poetic.

In 29 you can do a slight, tasteful ritardanto moving toward the fermata in measure 30.

Over in the Trio, here is the single biggest thing to remember: It cannot sound "notey"!  As it now stands, it's very notey.  You need to subdue all of that and to create more the sense of fluid playing.  Notice that the first three lines are marked p down to pp.  On in the next part does it become loud.

In measure 48 and 49 and elsewhere, notice how Schubert marks the tops of the RH figures with rinforzando accents.  So he's making a point there for execution, yet he clearly doesn't want the rinforzado effect throughout the trio, or had he wanted that he would likely have notated it.  Yet the tops of those figures are a very important element of this figuration.  So, how to sufficiently bring it out?  The trick (where there are no rinforzando accents) is to rely instead (and intuitively) on a milder tenuto touch, which allows some added emphasis.  This approach provides further differentiation from the stronger rinforzandos.  

In 67 and 68, the tenuto touch is deployed differently.  There the tenutos are on the first note of each of the six triplets.  Why?  Because there you have a scalar passage on those first notes in the RH: F#, G#, A and in the next measure G#, A, B and in the next measure C#, all of which you'll want to bring out for the listener, as those notes are truly the point of interest there.

Incidentally, in the Trio the LH plays what we call a ground bass (basso ostinato). This is a bass figuration usually of four measures (sometimes it can be up to 8 measures) that is repeated throughout a movement, sometimes with a degree of variation.  This predictable bass allows the more imaginative and charming melodic line in the RH to really be in the limelight of the foreground.

At the reprise of the first melody at measure around 99 at the sempre legato marked pp, don't forget the singer taking breaths at 102, 106, 110, 132, 136, and 140.  Again, subtle!  

In the next to last measure, although the top notes in the RH are voiced, here, a bit quieter, you'll want to make sure that the harmonic middle voices are also heard to beautify the texture there.  (Right now there are wrong notes needing attention.)

Finally ,be aware of differentiating touch as necessary. Notice, for example, in full measure 17, you have the first two chords under a slur marking but also with staccato dots under the notes.  The combination implies portato touch--a heavier, pressing touch.  But shortly afterward in 19 you have three purely staccato chords.  The two touches must sound entirely different.  Same thing in 22 and 23, 116 and 117, 120 and 121.  At the moment there is no apparent difference.  You also have isolated staccato chords in places: 45, 143 and 147.  These are not being heard either.  Where the damp pedal is sustaining, I would avoid using it with staccato touch, as it tend to rob the touch of its intended effect.

I hope some of this is helpful.  I posted a recording here years ago (the recording dating from 1987 actually, so analog, not digital sound).  This way sound can be worth a thousand words.  If you're interested, here is the link:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,18860.0.html

I also want to wish you the best of luck in your college auditions.

David



Wow -a masterclass here! I definitely can't add anything.
When a search is in progress, something will be found.

Offline liszt85

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Re: Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat
Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 12:20:53 AM
My only comment is: You look a bit like Matt Damon!!

Offline jesc

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Re: Schubert Impromptu No. 2 in A flat
Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 12:24:53 AM
I remember watching some pianists perform on stage with a music sheet. IIRC I saw a vid of Richter giving a concert while reading the piece (Japan probably). The point is, most of them were quite relaxed while reading.

I observed your eyes on how you look at the sheet then quickly to your fingers. However, you have some parts memorized, probably the ones you felt difficult, that's good.

What I found promising was there were some attempts to be musical at some point (I'm in a bit of a hurry so I'm not going to point out specifically the part you expressed that and it's also very subjective on the part of the listener).

Bottomline is, I got the impression that you're struggling with reading the piece which will get in the way of how you really want to express it. For example, I can surmise that you're hitting the keys too hard cause you're more worried about reading it correctly than actually intepreting the piece. That can also be the reason why it's mechanical. Are you at the stage of just getting the notes right?

Suggestion: Memorize the piece, or at the very least, be relaxed while playing it directly from the sheet. Memorized, and being relaxed will give you the ability to properly implement rachfan's suggestion. Or more importantly, implement your true interpretation.
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