Technique

[nyiregyhazi]

I have no target speeds, just whatever's comfortable.  In that way things speed up of their own accord.

When? You've said before that you worked on this Etude with Grindea- presumably at least 5 or 10 years ago? Are we looking at finally going faster in 2050? If you're serious about piano playing you need to abandon this false hope (or at least stop kidding yourself that you are in a position to speak with any experience of what goes on within faster tempos). Only by challenging yourself to do small amounts quickly can you get to the heart of the problems that prevent speed- and then take genuine action to rectify them. It's far better to come to terms with where problems lie than to kid yourself that a piece will eventually speed up by magic. Sorry to be blunt, but you're in denial about reality. What bothers me is that you give advice to others that is crafted specifically in order to help prop up your false reality. Slow practise is just worthless unless cross-referenced with faster attempts. Improvement comes from being brave enough to expose the technical holes, not by going slowly enough to be able to lie to yourself that there are none.

[nyiregyhazi]

Well I'm just on my way out and thought Id get back. I think you know what I'm going to say...The score doesn't have to suggest equality required in every single measure. Your suggesting artist discresion after every 4 notes in the piece so we'll have to agree to dis-agree.

Also my notes claim that the metronome was always going in Chopins lessons. Theres no rush to the thumb when the thumb is in proper even motion and winds up sitting right in perfect place for the next C strike.  If you just take two octaves going down...(its easiest) and cannot get the thing on the metronome, each note,  with a free and even motion in the hand then...i humbly believe theres a problem. If you can...then why wouldn't this continuity be imparted into the whole piece?   Anyway...Ive gone over this thread a few times and am happy with the contribution on my part with regards to any possible aid , in this piece anyway. If its argued thats fine.   Enjoying all the comments and have a great day to be sure.

I think you misunderstand what I'm talking about. This kind of agogics need not displace any beats. It could be done to a metronome just the same as computer-like eveness could. The variations are within beats. They do not make a single pulse note come late. I appreciate that not everyone thinks this way, but I'd strongly advise looking into string bowing and listening to Bach solo suites for violin and cello. It's just not musically natural to make every note 100% equal in duration. I'm not speaking of literal rushing to the thumb, but of the fact that playing it squarely in time makes it sound early (almost like a syncopation), unless there is a fraction of time to allow for the change of direction and to let the highest note speak first. I'm not talking about anything that need interfere with the physical flow of the thumb or the legato between 5 and 1. It's just a minute micro-breath, that allows the change of melodic direction to register with clarity and which stops it turning into a relentless barrage of sound. All good Bach players involve these kinds of slight subdivisions within longer lines.

Anyway, I appreciate that some people might prefer stricter evenness (and I'm not certainly not suggesting my example is some kind of musical ideal) but it's not something I would personally intend.

[technique]

Well I will say theres quite a bit of creative talent going on here. That is creating all kinds of justification to install .."interuptions"/

copy from wiki since you guys don't believe myself...


In Schumann’s NZM article on Pianoforte-Études the study is classified under the category "stretches: right hand" (Spannungen. Rechte Hand). The novelty of this étude is its broad right hand arpeggios in semiquavers (sixteenth notes). These nonstop arpeggios, based mostly on chords of the tenth and covering up to six octaves, surpass the drier octave arpeggios of earlier piano composers such as Beethoven, Clementi or Czerny in richness of overtones as well as in difficulty. The left hand plays a melody in slow legato octaves.
The main technical difficulty of this piece is playing the uninterrupted right hand arpeggios.


Now, above is referring to what a tune? No a study....no interuptions, no grouping allowed.

Some reccomend a top practice speed 156...never mind you guys and the race...Now if a top preformer is typically going through the piece at 150 or so.....what in the world are you guys doing?  Esp after all my good and logical reasoning....

Keyboard ...that last demo was un-even and an example of interuption which we know now is forbidden, caused by grouping....
You guys are playing it every bit as quickly as this link....

&feature=related


but when its heard it basically sounds like a different rendition or something....does this not tell you something?

As a matter of fact I wager that if we contacted this artist he would agree that the preformance speed for himself is to quick, but none the less played to suite occasion.

He looses quite a bit with the hastened approach...but....his form allows for perfect eveness...
People like myself with great ears can hear these things...he looses on legato.....thats why hes still got a ways to go. but...the form is there...you can hear it .

If nobody wants to put individual note on the metronome to verify these issues, to get all these improper kinks out thats fine. demos from overhead...beginning from the E (baby) at the top and come down...forget the base.

Whole notes, two octaves perfect timing.....if that cannot be the fundemental backbone....there will never be the real opus 10 number 1....perhaps a shadow which will shadow overall progress rather then illuminate.

Above all this speed and quickness mentality....is not going to work....yu can't suffocate a study///its a waste of good valuable time


 

[nyiregyhazi]

In Schumann’s NZM article on Pianoforte-Études the study is classified under the category "stretches: right hand" (Spannungen. Rechte Hand). The novelty of this étude is its broad right hand arpeggios in semiquavers (sixteenth notes). These nonstop arpeggios, based mostly on chords of the tenth and covering up to six octaves, surpass the drier octave arpeggios of earlier piano composers such as Beethoven, Clementi or Czerny in richness of overtones as well as in difficulty. The left hand plays a melody in slow legato octaves.
The main technical difficulty of this piece is playing the uninterrupted right hand arpeggios.


Now, above is referring to what a tune? No a study....no interuptions, no grouping allowed.

A fraction of a second is not an interruption. I'd look into Wolff's book on Schnabel's teaching. These issues are discussed at great length. I would refer to uninterrupted semiquavers myself, so Schumann's quote does not mean they were punched out with unyielding mechanical precision and without musical subdivisions. I'd refer to it as musical differentiation and illustration of phrase direction- not interruption. I appreciate that you may not choose to agree, but what I'm talking about really shouldn't be controversial as a concept. It's extremely standard to use mild agogics to simulate bowing (well perhaps less so these days, but certainly not in the past). Personally I do not care for playing that ignores these subtle issues in favour of fully machine-like timing.

[ajspiano]

That is creating all kinds of justification to install .."interuptions"

I would say that my attempts at running different groups..

cgcec
gcecg
cecgc
etc.

Specifically highlighted the fact that my mental grouping of the phrase as blocks of cgce was causing problems in the flucency as a whole. Work on the different groups produced a more focused accent on each of the different notes (because they were made to land on the beat) which lead to a much greater eveness and strength over each note when I returned to playing it as the standard CGCE grouping.

I also did a bit of accented offbeat practice..  ala  cGcEcGcE..when playing the group on the beat.. and in reverse, CgCeCgCe, when playing it as written. I didnt do this for very long at all, but it certainly resulted in a more even line overall. - I'm still unsure of why this works, but its something that my teacher as a kid had me do to resolve uneven playing, and it has always done the trick.

EDIT:
I might add that I have plenty of theories about why it works, but I have no conclusive proof. - should probably spend some more time on that.

[nyiregyhazi]

Work on the different groups produced a more focused accent on each of the different notes (because they were made to land on the beat) which lead to a much greater eveness and strength over each note when I returned to playing it as the standard CGCE grouping.

Yeah, I'd agree that it's important to make sure that all joins can be made via variants. I often practise from thumb to thumb- treating it as if each thumb lands on a beat. I still need to improve the sense of physical connection between 5 and 1. What I dispute is the suggestion that full rhythmic evenness is desirable in the end product. As long as it's a choice of musical phrasing (rather than the result of thumb being sluggish, or struggling to make legato) I think it's desirable to illustrate the ascending units. With each thumb, I think there's need to be a slight sense of easing into the ascent, if the details are to be properly heard. I don't think it should sound like a sudden descending interval, so much as a sense of one unit completing and then the next easing in. It's very similar to Bach's D major prelude from book one of the 48. Sub-divisions complete on the beat and initiate from the 2nd semiquaver.

[technique]

A fraction of a second is not an interruption. I'd look into Wolff's book on Schnabel's teaching. These issues are discussed at great length. I would refer to uninterrupted semiquavers myself, so Schumann's quote does not mean they were punched out with unyielding mechanical precision and without musical subdivisions. I'd refer to it as musical differentiation and illustration of phrase direction- not interruption. I appreciate that you may not choose to agree, but what I'm talking about really shouldn't be controversial as a concept. It's extremely standard to use mild agogics to simulate bowing (well perhaps less so these days, but certainly not in the past). Personally I do not care for playing that ignores these subtle issues in favour of fully machine-like timing.


...quote didn't work

The unfortuanate consequence of your decision which I do understand is that this particular study will open the door to all technical quirks that you would have in scale work. Reason being youve carried improper hand position onto this work...if your scale work was in order, this would not happen....it would open the door because you would realize that your thumb is not passing properly, theres instability in the 4 5 strike in all scale work...most import though a suppleness issue as well eveness and connectivity. The etude when approached properly will expose the general proper movement of the hand....in a relative way and get the ball rolling on just mentioned concerns

So...what were left with is struggle for no reason. First reaction is always a little hasty where back tracking is required....don't worry about it for now....if anyone submits scales or the above suggested two octaves starting from the top E in this piece I will be happy to comment.

I'm very interestred in sharing technical knowledge because it really does make the experience quite a bit more enjoyable as potencial query and un-certainty is eliminated allowing for progress full steam ahead.

In closing for now ....I can drop by in a day or two and check site for any technical querys and try to help out.  Will say that one of the reasons the piano is the hardest instrument to learn properly is not because of talent, huge amounts of time, fantastic intelligence ect....but from the get go ...with that first scale...the correct ground work must be layed....otherwise its an up hill battle all the way unless  the issues are resolved.....

from my readings most of Chopins students thinking they had it all down or close to it , ran out actually crying.

It appears the asian countries are refusing to play games with the proper form and producing many capable artists, without comenting on expression here. I suppose it will remain this way looking at the web and these Prof.  

I'll pop by in a few days to check out the categories
  

[nyiregyhazi]

I think you misunderstand. I'm well aware of technical issues that I have to work at. I do plenty of work at connecting 5 to 1. However, I do not aspire to play metronomically (with regard to every individual semiquaver) in the final product. It is not an aim. You can make legato (which I fully agree about the importance of) without being metronomic. I'm not disagreeing on technical issues but on musical ones. I think this Etude works very poorly without a sense of bowing behind it.

[technique]

I think you misunderstand. I'm well aware of technical issues that I have to work at. I do plenty of work at connecting 5 to 1. However, I do not aspire to play metronomically (with regard to every individual semiquaver) in the final product. It is not an aim. You can make legato (which I fully agree about the importance of) without being metronomic. I'm not disagreeing on technical issues but on musical ones. I think this Etude works very poorly without a sense of bowing behind it.

Ok sounds good...Ill pop by in a few days and if theres a few top down slower demos or scales ,I'll be able to expand further in these given opinions, for possible value.  (going to be a little busy

[ajspiano]

Ok sounds good...Ill pop by in a few days and if theres a few top down slower demos or scales ,I'll be able to expand further in these given opinions, for possible value.

care to do one yourself?

[technique]

care to do one yourself?

wish I could no cam

[ajspiano]

wish I could no cam

where are you from?  not that I use it for this kind of thing (i use my phone) but I picked up a webcam for $5 the other day.

[technique]

where are you from?  not that I use it for this kind of thing (i use my phone) but I picked up a webcam for $5 the other day.

I went from slow speed to high speed about three months ago...Canada....had to move from TO 2oo  north.  Money related. If I get a cam , which I will prob...I will have to move all my comp stuff over to the piano....so will think about it....plus only joined site this week, so we'll see how it goes I guess

[keyboardclass]

192 is not a target. Playing above tempo initially is a tool to test movement and find a good one. So I don't waste hours of practice on a movement that will ultimately end in a speed wall.

If I have a 'speed wall' in any particular piece it's due to the fingering I'm experimenting with - sometimes quite wierd and wonderful.  I don't see the tempo markings as a prescription, rather as Chopin's own performance tempo - one I'm sure he wouldn't have dogmatically insisted upon for a successful performance.  Still, you young people...   

[keyboardclass]

I went from slow speed to high speed about three months ago...Canada....had to move from TO 2oo  north.  Money related. If I get a cam , which I will prob...I will have to move all my comp stuff over to the piano....so will think about it....plus only joined site this week, so we'll see how it goes I guess

TO?  I was there in August.  I'll be in NS in the summer - drop by.

[thalbergmad]

If you lot spent as much time on this etude as you have on this thread, you would all have it up to speed.

Thal

[costicina]

You're incorrigible, Thal ...but you always cheer me up 

[ajspiano]

There..2 bars.

I think my third finger looks a bit tense, this is around the 150 mark I think. Can play quicker for the whole phrase now but not consistently. Accents are not really heard, though it's clearer with the actual sound (not compressed iPhone recording)

I'm pretty happy for 2 nights of focused practice though.. Before that my knowledge of the piece is 5 mins once every couple of weeks for the last 2 months, plus reading through it once quite some time ago.

[costicina]

Bravo AJ!!!! 

[technique]

I think my third finger looks a bit tense, this is around the 150 mark I think. Can play quicker for the whole phrase now but not consistently. Accents are not really heard, though it's clearer with the actual sound (not compressed iPhone recording)

I'm pretty happy for 2 nights of focused practice though.. Before that my knowledge of the piece is 5 mins once every couple of weeks for the last 2 months, plus reading through it once quite some time ago.

Comment on above demo


Well you should be happy. Very, very impressive esp in view of your mentioning the amount of time youve spent on it, including the added observation in the third finger...it makes perfect sense .   IOW the advantage in the study awaits in full worthy anticipation.

My opinion is probably well agreed that the third finger will relax a little as a more moderate practice speed allows for further independence in the 4-5 striking....its tense in other words because its helping achieve the 4-5 strike...thus unfolding some of the initiative in the design of the study to further enhance 4-5 independence...would be interested in your comment here.

Also, the 4-5 in keeping with above and evidencing , is a touch lighter in audible clarity relative to all other strikes........(they will arch a little on strike if this this is one your going to work on.).......This is good and also adds to realizing a good equality in timing has been achieved. ( the great difficulty in the piece

Enjoyed the good demo. Well done ajspiano in opinion !

[keyboardclass]

Very neat, but no accents whatsoever.  Jeez 6 secs?  and I thought my vids were short!

[nyiregyhazi]

If I have a 'speed wall' in any particular piece it's due to the fingering I'm experimenting with - sometimes quite wierd and wonderful. 

I believe the objective term for a fingering that renders even basic levels of speed impossible is "unfit for purpose". Not "wonderful". If you want to discuss technique of this work, you need to find a fingering that works and learn to use it. Otherwise you have as much business trying to comment on technique as someone who once drove around Silverstone at 30 mph has commenting on the "correct" technique for Formula 1 racing. If you want to play slow then fine. Just don't pretend that you have any worthwhile experience from which to pass comment about what is required in expected tempos. It's one thing to have an opinion on something but it's another thing altogether to claim to have special insight on something that you have never put the basic effort into personally experiencing.

[nyiregyhazi]

Very neat, but no accents whatsoever.  Jeez 6 secs?  and I thought my vids were short!

Stop trolling. The accents are clearly audible. You have just never experienced the fact that playing other notes at speed reduces the extent to which the accented notes emerge.

[keyboardclass]

The accents are clearly audible.

In your dreams!

Stop trolling.

Says my stalker!

[ajspiano]

Very neat, but no accents whatsoever.  Jeez 6 secs?  and I thought my vids were short!

If you'd been in the room with me you'd have heard them on the way down. Not so much the way up. The iphone compresses the audio.. loud sounds get softer, soft sounds get louder.. if I could sync the direct audio signal to the video I would but that is not an option at this point.

Thats not to say I think its up to standard.. It needs boat loads of work still, and obviously I need to be able to play more than 2 bars. I can play more, but it gets messy. I suspect that the different patterns (atleast the first page worth) will fall into place fairly quickly though now that I've come close to something that works in these 2 bars.

.....

I have my own thoughts about the reasoning for the 3rd finger. Yes to do with the 4-5 strike, just playing/practicing slower won't do much good though because (I think anyway) that the movement is still fundamentally flawed and needs greater use of forearm push/pull circles. I'm not going to try to explain that any further with words.. I just think my 4th/5th finger flex motion is doing some work my arm should be. Time and another practice will tell. I may try to make a slow video example with explanations but only when I actually think it's right.

Later bars appear to produce greater challenges that I havent worked on yet.. bar 22-23 type situations are interesting with the leap between the thumb and 2nd finger of a 7th. I need to work on these too before I can consider myself even close to knowing how to do it properly.

[keyboardclass]

If you'd been in the room with me you'd have heard them on the way down.

The down ones are an easy technique - you'll hear them in most commercial recordings.

[ajspiano]

The down ones are an easy technique - you'll hear them in most commercial recordings.

The up ones are easy too, when you know how

.....

I changed the movement a lot this evening. 3rd finger tension resolved. All accents audible. Even playing.. Top stable tempo is in the 140's - I think it will be better tomorrow after a nights sleep. The arm action is significantly different from my previous video. Much more 'shape' - instead of a flat lateral motion across the keys.

[keyboardclass]

The arm action is significantly different from my previous video. Much more 'shape' - instead of a flat lateral motion across the keys.

Hmm, all ears here (and eyes).

[lostinidlewonder]

It seems like this thread wants to talk about a single leaf in hope to appreciate the forest. Or maybe there is no intent to understand the forest and looking at the leaf is all you want to do. Internet is such a peculiar place.

[keyboardclass]

Internet is such a peculiar place.

As is the forest.

[lostinidlewonder]

As is the forest.

Which one?

[keyboardclass]

Which one?

Red Riding Hood's.

[lostinidlewonder]

Red Riding Hood's.

ok. Because the "forest" of Chopin's Technique and how he taught it, is certainly not peculiar.

[keyboardclass]

Oh, I don't know:
1 (a.) Particular; individual; special; appropriate.
2 (n.) That which is peculiar; a sole or exclusive property; a prerogative; a characteristic.
3 (a.) One's own; belonging solely or especially to an individual; not possessed by others; of private, personal, or characteristic possession and use; not owned in common or in participation.
4 (a.) Unusual; singular; rare; strange; as, the sky had a peculiarappearance.
5 (n.) A particular parish or church which is exempt from the jurisdiction of the ordinary.

[lostinidlewonder]

Oh, I don't know:
....

Obviously.

[keyboardclass]

Shucks, lighten up.

[snafu]

AJ - I thought that 6s clip was very impressive.

Can I cheekily ask you a bunch of questions...you don't have to answer all (or any!) of them, but it would be very useful to me and others reading...and you have been kind to other early-advanced students in the past.

I'm currently polishing Beethoven Op14/1.  I start with that info purely because it has an arpeggiated section in the middle of the last movement.  I'm going to modestly claim without evidence that I can play it fine.  But, obviously, it's *massively* easier than the Chopin, mainly because the stretches aren't there.

What I'm wondering is how best to get from my current standard to the place where I could sensibly attempt the Chopin over the course of several years.

 - Although you've all made points spread all over the place in this thread, could you summarise the main points of advanced arpeggio technique in a couple of paragraphs?  (Before you ask, I've read Bernhard and Chang, and this is one area where their explanations don't do it for me).

 - Could you re-film that 6s clip with the camera over one shoulder (positioned like the Mexican Prof did).  The shallow end-on angle makes it hard to see...in fact, it looks like the notes aren't widely spaced at all...when I know that they are.  How about doing it slow-motion as well...it's so hard to see the movements at speed at youtube quality.

 - Can you suggest romantic pieces that would be good transitional material to work on?  I often feel (to quote a famous PS member) that everything is either trivially easy or completely impossible...sometimes difficult to choose a good piece.

I fully appreciate that I'm dumbing down an advanced-level thread, so I don't mind reposting elsewhere if that's the concensus of you guys.

Overall though, a fascinating read, and I take my hat off to you lot.

[keyboardclass]

Snafu, don't know who I did this for or why but maybe of some use:

Maybe this too:

[cmg]

Pianist Paul Barton presents a great tutorial on mastering Op 10, No.1

&feature=related

[keyboardclass]

Seen it - doesn't know what he's talking about.

[cmg]

Seen it - doesn't know what he's talking about.

LOL!  Yeah.  Right.

[virtuoso80]

Pianist Paul Barton presents a great tutorial on mastering Op 10, No.1

&feature=related

The key element for me in getting this Etude is to get off the thumb note immediately, and then think of the next four notes as a group (the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th notes) and to move your arm accordingly. Repeat this pattern throughout. I still can't play it at tempo (never studied it intently), but now I can play through it without any real strain or fatigue.

[keyboardclass]

The key element for me in getting this Etude is to get off the thumb note immediately, and then think of the next four notes as a group (the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th notes) and to move your arm accordingly. Repeat this pattern throughout. I still can't play it at tempo (never studied it intently), but now I can play through it without any real strain or fatigue.

Totally agree.  Those who attempt to stretch only hurt themselves.  Paul Barton got that right (if I'm remembering correctly).

[wnlqxod]

Oh, what the heck, if you play in such a physical manner that facilitates your playing more without hurting you, then that's good technique right there. With that simple point in mind, you gonna do what you gotta do *shrugs*

[starstruck5]

I think this guy talks with such passion he makes me want to play the piano.   

I like the fact that videos are starting to do some of the talking in this thread.

[ajspiano]

I like that there are more videos involved to.

Paul Bartons video seem ok. I kind of skimme it trying to find some kind of technical advice but it doesn't seem to be there. He can obviously play it, he just doesn't seem to know how to explain it beyond musically. But perhaps that's just because the intention of that video is more about practice methods/music rather than the mechanical process involved.

The next video was better I think. I experimented with his grouping gcec idea ages ago on my own. It helps but I don't think it's the whole picture. There's just so much info missing.

I'd like to see the forum members produce some videos with their own thoughts rather than posting other people's YouTube tutorials. It doesn't matter whether you have a good final product or not. Rational analysis/discussion of the learning process usually results in development of better understanding for everyone. Having your own ideas matters to your development as a pianist. If you can't play it, sit down and try to explain how to play it and you'll probably figure out exactly why you can't do it - it will be the small part you can't explain.

I'll make something later to get the ball rolling. Not just a demo of my playing but with talking pointing out some of my thought process, and with fast and slow motion demos. It will just be ideas though, nothing concrete. I'm not big on give "this is exactly how" type of advice ever, let alone with something this advanced and that I have hardly studied.

If anyone else wants to share some ideas but feels that they don't fit into the performance forum due to a lack of experience, post a new thread in the students corner, I'll pick it up over there if that's how it goes. Really I don't think it matters though, being a professional pianist doesn't make you an authority that no longer needs to learn anything.

[ajspiano]

Can I cheekily ask you a bunch of questions...

yes of course.

- Although you've all made points spread all over the place in this thread, could you summarise the main points of advanced arpeggio technique in a couple of paragraphs?

Not really, a couple of paragraphs is pretty limited. Also, "the main points of advanced arpeggio technique" aren't anything that different from the main points of technique in general. Its just that over a wide arp if you're technique is bad you'll get slapped down by the increased difficulty. Essentially the exact same principals that are applied to a scale are applied to an arpeggio, and are applied to any given phrase.

^I realise that doesn't help you much at all as I havent explained anything at all. Sorry about that.

- Could you re-film that 6s clip with the camera over one shoulder (positioned like the Mexican Prof did).

Probably will be quite difficult but I'll try.. I'm only recording with an iphone, I don't have a steady cam with a tripod or anything.

- Can you suggest romantic pieces that would be good transitional material to work on?  I often feel (to quote a famous PS member) that everything is either trivially easy or completely impossible...sometimes difficult to choose a good piece.

Not really without having a good dig around, my "off the top of my head" repertoire knowledge is pretty limited compared to many other people here. Its because I went off and just played pop/rock/jazz for quite some time in my teenage years and I'm still a youngster. I probably have an advantage in arpeggios because of that - lots of time spent playing ii V7 I progressions with comping LH and arps/scales/improv RH.

That said - People will disagree but I'm a strong believer in "impossible or easy" as far as pieces go, and the difference is not in what your ready for, just what you know. For example, my GF (a non pianist - she can kind of play the first half of bach minuet in G) regularly insists upon attempting to learn some fragment of whatever I'm doing myself. Her hands are small, she can not reach an octave, infact her comfortable reach is just a 6th (very short 5th finger) - However, after 3 short 15-20 min sessions (the last 3 nights) under my supervision, she can play the first bar RH of this etude comfortably at half the final tempo, fairly evenly and accurately.

Her technique has a lot of holes still, and its obviously unlikely she'd get to full speed anytime soon without further adjustment. I do think though that the fact that she has managed this quite obviously proves that knowing the right information for the individual situation (or at least close to it?? I'm not convinced I'm right yet) makes an incredible difference to ones ability to tackle something that may be perceived as far too difficult.

Had she been left to figure it out herself I'm sure she'd have given up within a few seconds, saying "theres no way i can do this, I can not reach far enough"

[keyboardclass]

- Can you suggest romantic pieces that would be good transitional material to work on?  I often feel (to quote a famous PS member) that everything is either trivially easy or completely impossible...sometimes difficult to choose a good piece.

That's why we have etudes.  Check out Stephen Heller.

[markclay]

Keyboard Class, I'm sorry to say this, but the fact is your playing is atrocious.

I'm new to this forum, but I can only assume you are a very elaborate troll given the massive disparity between your claims to expertise, and the level of your performance.

If this is indeed a joke, then well done. If it isn't then you need to really take a long hard look at your technique, and start again.

Apologies for any offence if you do indeed mean well.

[keyboardclass]

Keyboard Class, I'm sorry to say this, but the fact is your playing is atrocious.

I'm new to this forum, but I can only assume you are a very elaborate troll given the massive disparity between your claims to expertise, and the level of your performance.

If this is indeed a joke, then well done. If it isn't then you need to really take a long hard look at your technique, and start again.

Apologies for any offence if you do indeed mean well.

Perhaps you'd like to add to the debate?