The Appassionata Project

[costicina]

Wow, m1469, what a beautiful performance!!!  Watching your playing is a moving, insipiring experience. Thank you so much for sharing. Please, post more!!!!

[birba]

very impressive.  I liked your solid, no-frills interpretation.  You also cut a beatiful figure at the piano.  Julianne Moore playing the appassionata!
I'm in a slump and have given up practising altogether.  Ma chi mi lo fa fà!  I'm glad at least YOU are keeping this thread alive.

[gruszynski]

m1469,

Beautiful performance, thank you !

Msusan

[costicina]

Ma che sei MATTO?  Non puoi mollare così....I'm sure you'll change your mind when you'll be back to your grand piano, and you'll be able to perform  the most appassionata Appassionata we could hope for.

Lasciaci senza fiato, facci venire i brividi, sconvolgici....please!!!!
 

[m1469]

very impressive.  I liked your solid, no-frills interpretation.  You also cut a beatiful figure at the piano.

Thanks .

I'm in a slump (...)

So snap the h*ll outta it, I guess! 

[m1469]

Wow, m1469, what a beautiful performance!!!  Watching your playing is a moving, insipiring experience. Thank you so much for sharing. Please, post more!!!!

Yes, thanks for watching and for your nice comments .  I'll look forward to getting it further straightened out and posting again at some point!

m1469,

Beautiful performance, thank you !

Msusan

Thank you for listening!

[candlelightpiano]

I'm in a slump and have given up practising altogether.  

Oh, no!  I was enthusiastically awaiting your grand finale on a grand piano!  You were doing so magnificently!  

[m1469]

Birba (and others who would like to share), I would be interested to know your deepest secrets in practicing the descending passage in mm 14-15 ...    I'm pullin' the whole big giant up ... I,II,III babyyyyy

[pianowolfi]

Well, I'm certainly lacking experience with that piece, but I know that many pianists share this between the hands, the first time. The second time, in the recapitulation, you have no other option than playing it with the right hand alone, but then you are already warmed up and into it and you can support your right hand with the steady pulse of the left.    

[ajspiano]

I'm in a slump and have given up practising altogether.

I did this too - at least as far as the appasionata goes..  I actually find it a little hard to get motivated about most beethoven, personal preference I guess - I much prefer the romantics.

[birba]

[candlelightpiano]

There's no better way to start the morning off than to watch one of your videos.  You can make any keyboard sound like a Steinway!  No kidding! 

I'm thrilled you're back, Maestro!

[costicina]

  Welcome back!!!!

How the hell are you able to make sound like a grand Fazioli a lousy Bosendorfer 

Italy is waiting for you!!!!   

[m1469]

Thanks for the video, Birba and your thoughts, Wolfi.  Actually, this passage has been a very nice challenge for me for awhile   ... for me, it's not just a matter of playing through it enough times - that has definitely not led me to an iron-clad sense of looking forward to its approach and that I'm going to nail it, which is ultimately what I aim for.  I have needed to dissect it and investigate it, and my teachers have also done this with me.  I think I'm having a breakthrough with it, though, following along in a better way now some advices my teachers have shared with me.  I definitely recognize the core shape/harmony, and I've been playing it with one hand.  And, it's especially been between the Bb and F which has been extra tricky and has sometimes led the passage down an iffy path.  I will keep working with it, I was just curious if there were any special tricks people do to really secure it, rather than simply playing it.  I see that obviously the concept one has of it is important in terms of mental and then physical organization.

I wore my ninja outfit to record the third movement, and it seems, Birba, you have worn yours to record this video.  Ninja outfits have their place, that's for sure.  In any event, yes, I have a certain expression I use in my own private world for the confidence needed to flash through a passage like this at the beginning of a monstrous piece, but I probably shan't repeat it here .

[birba]

What F are you talking about?  There are no F's in that passage.  It's the B-flat E (F-flat, if you will) that's the problem.  At least for me.

[m1469]

hahah ... sorry, I meant E . 

[m1469]

I found this clip on Youtube by chance, it has to be one of the best interpretation of Beethoven Op57.

Ooooo, very nice.  I am just listening now ... very mature and beautiful playing   - I have recently watched/listened to another artist (who I will not name), who plays the third movement like a serious bat out of h*ll ... yes, not just a regular bat, but a pretty serious bat ... and I don't just mean fast, I mean like an actual bat flapping out of h*ll ... with a little bit of smoke and smoulder flying off his butt ... the entire movement   ... BAM BAM BAM BAMM ... I'm a bat!  I'm gettin' outta h*ll ... !!!     Anyhoo, it kinda gave me pause for thought because on one level it's impressive, but then again, it completely ignores the actual dynamics, and doesn't exactly give a build of any sort or an energetic pacing, it's just always BLAM, I'm in yo' face!, etc., within the piece ... and while you could maybe interpret Beethoven as a scary guy, determined, etc., I don't know about this "*** to the wall" approach the whole way through (OK, that term actually has pilot origins (I've recently discovered) and not male-body origins).

I'm listening to Ciccolini's third movement now ... I like very much.  Thanks for sharing!  Ah, some fury ...


*bows furiously to Ciccolini ... kneeling and with hands getting all the way to floor* ah gawd ... you go, guy!

[m1469]

I just have to say, Ciccolini is a master of several things, obviously, as his sound, agility, dexterity are obviously very impressive, but then, even more than that, he's some kind of kung fu master of overall as well as puzzle piece energetic pacing.  I am still letting that performance sink in ...

[costicina]

Ciccolini is one of the best, if not the best, contemporary Italian pianist, much better than the overrated Pollini. His Appassionata is absolutely superb, stunning, moving....I can understand why you decided to learn this masterpiece... 

[philb]

Ciccolini is one of the best, if not the best, contemporary Italian pianist, much better than the overrated Pollini. His Appassionata is absolutely superb, stunning, moving....I can understand why you decided to learn this masterpiece... 

You should also go listen to his op. 110 from the same concert, one of the best interpretations I've heard in a while. 

[starstruck5]

Just been catching up with m1469s 3rd movement and Birbas practise and analysis of the descending C7 1st movement passage -since I am back from staring into the abyss and a short spell in hospital -I think the Appassionata has still more meaning for me now!

Malya you are well on your way to mastering the third movement -a little more tempo and intensity and it will be outstanding -I enjoyed your playing very much. You remind me of Tori Amos.

I think that descending arpeggio passage is tough as well -but I think you have to attack it and enjoy it and not be intimidated by it -actually it is a joy to play once you start to get up to speed -it's why we become pianists yes?

[costicina]

  Welcome back to us and to the Appassionata!!!!

[candlelightpiano]

YES!!!!  Welcome back, Starstruck!  We have missed you!!  I hope you get well soon!

[starstruck5]

YES!!!!  Welcome back, Starstruck!  We have missed you!!  I hope you get well soon!

Thanks to both Choo and Marge -I really appreciate you welcoming me back! 

[m1469]

m1469 -I enjoyed your playing very much.

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for listening!

I think that descending arpeggio passage is tough as well -but I think you have to attack it and enjoy it and not be intimidated by it

Attitude shifts are definitely necessary, I agree.  I tend to be under the impression that possessing the actual skill necessary to play something as desired seems to bring about a sense of confidence and joy about playing it.

[m1469]

I tend to be under the impression that possessing the actual skill necessary to play something as desired seems to bring about a sense of confidence and joy about playing it.

I do also find the opposite to be true; that a right sense of confidence and joy can bring about the skill to play  .

[starstruck5]

I do also find the opposite to be true; that a right sense of confidence and joy can bring about the skill to play  .

Without confidence there can be no joy  I suppose -unless you are happy with sloppy flubby playing!

I am getting old though tho be honest -the Appassionata is wearing me out these days -I should leave pieces like this to younger folk like yourself -but I am too stubborn -hopefully I can post a progress video soon -go to be better than my last one -lol

[costicina]

Without confidence there can be no joy  I suppose -unless you are happy with sloppy flubby playing!

I am getting old though tho be honest -the Appassionata is wearing me out these days -I should leave pieces like this to younger folk like yourself -but I am too stubborn -hopefully I can post a progress video soon -go to be better than my last one -lol

C'mon, Starstruck, we all know that you can learn and play beautifully the pieces you love, no matter how hard and demanding they are. I'm glad that you're stubborn (I've always considered it a quality, and a useful one .  And yiu have an affectionate audience ready to encourage and to praise your achievements.....So, slave at the bench, and show us how good you are!!!!!

[m1469]

So, slave at the bench

 

*loves the bench*  ... I just played the piano again last night after a few days off, nearly the first thing when I got home.  I was like ... "ah gawd ... so beautiful... what are those amazing sounds of the instrument called piano?  ah gawd ..." haha.  

Maturity and the Appassionata are NOT mutually exclusive!

[m1469]

Okay, I'm gettin' this puppy (mov. I, mm. 14-15) onto demand.  Trying not to let it be fudgey ... it got a little bit fudgcicley in a spot ... but it's getting there.  I said to myself, that's it!  Recorder on!  This is a performance ... it's do or die  ... you have this one chance!  Now do it!! 

[pianowolfi]

Yeahhh you did it!!!! I am so happy!  

[m1469]

Yeahhh you did it!!!! I am so happy!  

Thank you, Wolfi smile!

Okay, here is the opening through what I posted above.  It took three tries, and this is not quite up to My Highness' standards and tastes, but it's a little somethin' somethin' (oh yeah, and I accidentally hit my fingers on the fall-board coming out of the Db Major chord - you might notice that  :-).

[starstruck5]

  -great start -that sets you up nicely for the other million or so notes! lol

[m1469]

-great start -that sets you up nicely for the other million or so notes! lol

Thanks!  Actually, that's precisely my personal aim at this point, a nice setup to the other million or so notes  .  This has been an area of more concern than others for me, so -if I think calmly about it and "let" myself focus on fixing this passage- I feel like getting this into shape is more than getting this particular passage into shape, it's changing the landscape of very much around it if not the entire thing (in my perception of playing it).

[candlelightpiano]

m1469, you're such a wonderfully good pianist!  That's so lovely.  How is "My Highness," if I may ask?  You surely don't mean Birba?  He is such a fine, humble gentleman.  Do you mean yourself?  

[pianowolfi]

Thank you, Wolfi smile!

Okay, here is the opening through what I posted above.  It took three tries, and this is not quite up to My Highness' standards and tastes, but it's a little somethin' somethin' (oh yeah, and I accidentally hit my fingers on the fall-board coming out of the Db Major chord - you might notice that  ).

I love it!!

It's the *main* thing in this part, to me, you do it so well, you know: this subito p after the Db major chord! But without all that fuss before, it doesn't convince and here it does, because everything before is played really perfectly, imo, and really suspenseful!
(I didn't notice your fingers touching the fallboard btw and even if, so what, it might rather confirm the importance of the thing )

Yes, I listened again several times, and it's just IT! It's just that! I notice a slight hiss in the recording (which probably covers your fallboard touching) because of the strong Db Major chord, but it needs to be that strong!

[birba]

Yes, m1469.  Great beginning!

[costicina]

Great opening., m1469!!!!

And YOUR opening, Birba? How does it sound? It would be so interesting to compare your different ways to play, feel, interpret this incipit: somehow I figure that yours will be more mysterious, un po' fosco e minaccioso...

[m1469]

Thanks, peoples!  Now, "organizing" phrases in sections ... and onto fixing the trills in 44-46, and then 51-60 ... yeah, that pretty much all needs secret weapon reworking/fixing and musical organization.

[m1469]

Thanks, peoples!  Now, "organizing" phrases in sections ... and onto fixing the trills in 44-46, and then 51-60 ... yeah, that pretty much all needs secret weapon reworking/fixing and musical organization.

It's hurting my noggin and my feelings a little bit  :- but I'm forcing myself *throws a temper tantrum*

[birba]

m1469, you're such a wonderfully good pianist!  That's so lovely.  How is "My Highness," if I may ask?  You surely don't mean Birba?  He is such a fine, humble gentleman.  Do you mean yourself?  

If she was referring to me, she would have said "His Highness".  "My Highness", which I've never heard, means she's talking about herself, I guess.

[candlelightpiano]

You're right, Birba!  I got confused!     

[candlelightpiano]

"Humble" was probably not the right choice of word to use.  What I meant was that you are not arrogant.  You don't have airs.  

[m1469]

I think everybody has a little bit of Your Royal Highness in them.  And if they don't, they should  ... only in the right ways though  .

[starstruck5]

m1469s post and something Birba said in the Audition Room about out with the old and in with the new has given me an idea about these project threads. I need some feedback from everyone as to the best way to structure the idea though.

OK -so m1469 posted bars 1-16 recently (1st movement). I have a recording of bars 1-54 to post now -you see it isn't perfect -but Ilike Birba says about out with the old I can always update it -the thing is I should maybe just post 1 through 16 as m1469 did -but for now I'll post 1-54.

Can we find a way of deciding on small sections for anyone to post in a structured way? It could be like our own practise diary in the thread perhaps?

[goldentone]

Thank you, Wolfi smile!

Okay, here is the opening through what I posted above.  It took three tries, and this is not quite up to My Highness' standards and tastes, but it's a little somethin' somethin' (oh yeah, and I accidentally hit my fingers on the fall-board coming out of the Db Major chord - you might notice that  ).

That's terrific--I mean--queeneriffic!  And the greatest thud in the history of the Appassionata.

[candlelightpiano]

Starstruck, that was really, really good!!!  I love your trills.  They're so delicate.  So glad you're back with something new, a lot of something new, I mean.  You're definitely on the right track here. Good work!  Keep it up!

I hope you and Queen m1469 decide to keep a practice log here.  

[costicina]

Starstruck,

This incipit denotes how madly in love you're with this Sonata...I got goosebumps listening to some passages....
Please, keep on, you have all the numbers to play this piece beautifully!!!!!
 

[starstruck5]

Starstruck,

This incipit denotes how madly in love you're with this Sonata...I got goosebumps listening to some passages....
Please, keep on, you have all the numbers to play this piece beautifully!!!!!
 

Wow thanks -this music is really hard to play , but both you and Choo are so wonderfully supportive -I will do my best to play it eventually right through.!

We could make A1 now bars 1-49 -for anyone wanting to join in
B1 =49-78      G1=185-209  K1 =Whole movement!
c1=78-93       H1=209-225
D1=93-122     I1= 225-238
E1=122-151    J1 =238-262
F1=151-178

So does everyone agree with this way of sectioning the movement -if so write them in your score -or suggest another?

[candlelightpiano]

Sounds like a good idea, Starstruck!  However, the number of bars in each section sound like quite a big chunk for someone beginning.  A1 at 49 bars is a lot!!  How did you choose those numbers?