Alkan Allegro Barbaro

[michaelrose55]

This is my first post to the pianostreet forum. I'm really looking forward to your opinion. This piece was played on a Kawaii CA91 digital piano, recorded using Cubase 6.

[liszt85]

That was great! Could you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Are you a student or a professional? Did you go to conservatory? etc. This was quite outstanding.

[michaelrose55]

I'm playing piano just for fun. My parents wanted me to become a professional pianist, I started taking pianio lessens at the age of 5 but changed to a different career path when I became 18.

I started playing again when I was 40 and have been playing ever since. I mostly play Chopin, Liszt and Rachmaninoff. I started playing Alkan after I stumbled over a video of Jack Gibbons playing the Allegro Barbaro. For the last 9 months or so I have been working on the Concerto for Solo Piano now which is almost impossible to play. I wonder if I should post it here...?

[starstruck5]

Outstanding control technically -also you play with great joy -wonderful.

[perfect_pitch]

OKAY... Let me be the one to say this, because I don't know how many others would... but considering we've had plenty of people who've claimed to upload pieces played by themselves only to find out they've just taken a midi file and synthesized it or just plain-old taken someone elses audio and uploaded it as their own...

I have my doubts that that is really you playing... In fact, I don't think that is you playing.

SIMPLY because the recording is literally - perfect... but I mean so perfect that in a rather pianistically challenging, and physically demanding piece such as this, there are no wrong notes whatsoever, the semiquavers in the ending, the triplets in the 'D' section are so perfectly timed, to almost computed accuracy that I seriously doubt that is you playing.

Having said that... I seriously hope I'm wrong, only because it means we're not yet again questioning every recording that is uploaded here and being played for fools. I would hope that you come here to do a lot more than play us for idiots.

I know this might seem a little over the top - but can we see a video of you playing that?

If I'm wrong, I will personally apologise to you and take back what I've said - but something in the back of my mind tells me there's something off about this recording.

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I know it might sound like I'm jealous, but I can assure you I'm not. I am a pianist who has performed and taught, but considering I used to listen to Midi files in the past (a long, long time ago) just because I didn't have a software synthesizer, I am very familiar with the software used to create them and the ability to use a Digital piano or keyboard to playback Midi files from the computer.

[rachfan]

Hi michaelrose,

I agree with perfect-pitch's suspicions for the very reasons he stated.  Incidentally, I notice that your recording submission is likewise being challenged right now as midi at another piano website which also requested a video.  You replied that you didn't have one. Quite frankly, to me it sounds more like computer generated playing, not authentic and artistic piano playing.  

David

[liszt85]

I had my suspicions too but I had raised doubts about another member's performances recently and was wrong, so didn't want to jump into conclusions, which is why I asked him to tell us more about himself. The recording is indeed too perfect (the artificial sound does not give anything away since he admitted to "playing" on a digital piano) and I pretty convinced that it was synthesized too, I'm glad other people pointed fingers at him first.

[scottmcc]

Having fallen for hoaxes in the past I will say there is no doubt in my mind that this is a hoax. Honestly, I don't even have to listen to it to say that, although I did listen to some of it.  Anyone with the technical facility to play something like this should at least have access to a real piano, even if they don't own it.  And what amateur plays alkan?  There's really not many, and those that do generally inject some humanity into their playing. But if this is real and I am wrong, I'd love to hear your take on the concerto for solo piano. 

[starstruck5]

Hmmm -I must say that I to had my doubts when listening -but I tend to be generous and give people the benefit -How on earth do you authenticate these recordings -I guess few, if any actaully manage to convince everyone.

[lostinidlewonder]

midi

[michaelrose55]

I should have uploded "For Elise" and avoided all the trouble. I will try to honestly answer your questions and concerns but before I do let me say that I find it ridiculous to say, quote: "And what amateur plays alkan?". Let me tell you I like his music and I do.

Next quote: "  Anyone with the technical facility to play something like this should at least have access to a real piano, even if they don't own it." Let me tell you that I did own a Kawaii grand piano for years and that I sold it because we moved from Florida to Germany to Colorado to Florida during the last 12 years and taking a grand with me all the time was too much of a hassle. Also, the Kawaii Concert Artist digital piano isn't just your typical plastic keyboard, see here: https://www.kawai.de/ca91_en.htm


But now to the basic question: did I or did I not?

Here is what I did not do: sit down and enter the music in a Midi editor and hit 'play'. I don't think it would sound good.

Here is what I did do: I played and recorded the piece many, many times. I then picked pieces that came out good and put them together for the final recording. So there's editing involved. I'm an electronics engineer in my real life so I'm used to come as close as possible to perfection. Maybe that's not the best approch for music? I don't know.

If I have offended you by breaking rulse I apologize. You can delete my posting and I will accept that. But before you do so please listen to the attached file. It's the second movenment of Alkan's Concerto for Solo Piano and yes - even amateurs like to play this kind of music!

[lostinidlewonder]

lol fail at lying.

[liszt85]

I should have uploded "For Elise" and avoided all the trouble. I will try to honestly answer your questions and concerns but before I do let me say that I find it ridiculous to say, quote: "And what amateur plays alkan?". Let me tell you I like his music and I do.

Next quote: "  Anyone with the technical facility to play something like this should at least have access to a real piano, even if they don't own it." Let me tell you that I did own a Kawaii grand piano for years and that I sold it because we moved from Florida to Germany to Colorado to Florida during the last 12 years and taking a grand with me all the time was too much of a hassle. Also, the Kawaii Concert Artist digital piano isn't just your typical plastic keyboard, see here: https://www.kawai.de/ca91_en.htm


But now to the basic question: did I or did I not?

Here is what I did not do: sit down and enter the music in a Midi editor and hit 'play'. I don't think it would sound good.

Here is what I did do: I played and recorded the piece many, many times. I then picked pieces that came out good and put them together for the final recording. So there's editing involved. I'm an electronics engineer in my real life so I'm used to come as close as possible to perfection. Maybe that's not the best approch for music? I don't know.

If I have offended you by breaking rulse I apologize. You can delete my posting and I will accept that. But before you do so please listen to the attached file. It's the second movenment of Alkan's Concerto for Solo Piano and yes - even amateurs like to play this kind of music!

Now, I don't think that was midi. I'm confused here. I guess it doesn't really matter. If you played it, good for you! If not, the joke's on you.

[perfect_pitch]

If I have offended you by breaking rulse I apologize. You can delete my posting and I will accept that. But before you do so please listen to the attached file. It's the second movenment of Alkan's Concerto for Solo Piano and yes - even amateurs like to play this kind of music!

But again... something in the back of my mind still tells me that the Alkan still wasn't your playing. The only man on the PLANET I've ever heard play the Allegro Barbaro that good is Jack Gibbons, and even his sounded more authentic because the timing seemed a little (microscopic) bit more lucid than yours.

I'm still not convinced because of the triplet and semiquaver playing. I'm sorry, but if it's possible - I'd like to see you record some video footage before I believe that's you playing.

[arturfan]

 I don't need a video. I know you didn't play it short of 300 edits. Nice midi, though. My compliments to the programmer.

[perfect_pitch]

I know... I just posted that because one, I'd like to see his response - and two I'd kind of hoped that people like him wouldn't think we were stupid enough to fall for it and treat this forum with more respect.

 

[pianoplayjl]

How many more MIDI performances are we going to get? Some guy has just set a doctrine of precedent in the audition room.  I just heard Jack Gibbon's recording. I'm very sure no one can play it faster than he can. If someone can they would have been a very famous pianist. As much as I wish it were real, I can't believe this. The 2nd one I believe A BIT. At least to me it sounds more convincing than the allegro barbaro. But I am still skeptical of both recordings.

JL

[emill]

Oh well ... when I heard this ... there were no comments yet, but I could almost swear it was Jack Gibbons slowed down a teeny-bit,  but did not dare make any comment as I did not have an iota of any credential to back me up ... as I do not even play the piano.

I think it defeats the whole purpose of "audition" room for those who are knowledgeable to make observations and suggestions on pieces one plays. Perhaps doing many takes and electronically splicing the best to complete the piece may be acceptable if one were selling a commercial recording, but to post it in audition room??  FOR WHAT PURPOSE THEN when it is already "clean and perfect"??  just my take.

I should have uploded "For Elise" and avoided all the trouble.

Well I do not think "fur elise" is something to sneeze at. There are pianists who can play it to a level "unheard" of ... simply beautiful playing.  You could have avoided a lot of trouble if you did not misrepresent yourself as someone who took the challenge of the formidable "Allegro Barbaro"
and was posting your work for a real audition.

[cbreemer]

Just like recently with Guy Bacos, it was exactly the same story at Piano Society. This is so over the top that it was exposed immediately. Looking at the wave forms, they are so absolutely regular that this could hardly be assembled from real playing.
I'm sure this 'recording' is no mean feat of engineering. Probably would go down a treat in one of the forums that specialize in this sort of thing. It still puzzles me though what somebody would be wanting to achieve - or prove - with a project like this by posting it in an Audition Room forum where people discuss music and each other's piano playing. What is the point ?

[pianowolfi]

Sorta hilarious and depressing at the same time.

[cbreemer]

But before you do so please listen to the attached file. It's the second movenment of Alkan's Concerto for Solo Piano and yes - even amateurs like to play this kind of music!

This at least has the musicality that the Allegro Barbaro lacks (it's a more musical piece of course).
In fact it could almost convince me that someone is, or has been, really playing this, with feeling, dynamics, and rubato. But then come the 'tambour' sections, sounding as bloodlessly midi as they come. Altogether, a strange mix. And again, to my ears, too dazzlingly perfect for any amateur (even though this one is not out of reach of a very good amateur).
I think the problem is that once you're into heavily doctored recordings, it becomes very hard to
convince people of your honest-to-goodness pianism. Just my two eurocents ;-)

[liszt85]

Since the OP said that he only took bits from different takes and merged them together intelligently, there is an easy way of knowing if he can indeed play these pieces. @OP: Why don't you post one of those takes in its entirety so that we can listen to it? We promise to forgive all the little errors that may have crept in. We just need to hear you play it in one single take.

[Bob]

The Jack Gibbons, if it wasn't already posted.