Another hand/finger technique thread (but for realz, I need advice!)

[bustthewave]

Note: I've played by ear my entire life (including piano pieces where I taught myself to play fast runs, arpeggios exc. and over the past 6 months been working diligently to learn to site read, play musically, and build a traditional repertoire).

So I'm transcribing a quartet piece for piano last night, which leads to some curazy reaching chords, where the only way I can hit them is if I take the tips of my fingers, and "pull" down the keys at their edges. I actually managed to do this quickly, without lag (that I noticed... thanks sustain pedal)... and surprising tone control (surprising only in that I had any level of tone control at all), but no surprise my wrist is sore. So while practicing, I don't know how it happened... I didn't plan it, but i randomly relaxed and "rolled" the chord with the tips of my fingers.

I had NO idea how "flat" I've had my fingers all this time (25 years it took me to realize this apparently). I can't even begin to tell you what playing this way has done for every level of tone control. I feel like I can actually play tonally the way i hear the song, every time, with minimal effort! Even octaves, trills, arpeggios, all suddenly became easier and smooth... in a 24 hour period.

So with that said, surely there is a balance between hitting notes with my fingers, versus forearm action? For instance, I'm learning Debussy's Clair De Lune, and there are many parts that have small chord transitions very close together. Without sustain, and given that it's soft, it seems better to transition with my fingers rather than lift my forearm up. But something feels unnatural about that when I'm playing with relaxed hands.

How much of my forearm is really supposed to be utilized? Especially in the case of fast runs, trills, octave runs, exc... Is the ideal way to play a fast trill, where the notes are a half step apart, to rotate the forearm/wrist? It feels like I've still got to do a good amount of actual finger movement to pull that off. Same question with bouncing an octave back and forth with thumb and pinky, is this ideally a forearm movement (hey... don't judge, sometimes i play honky tonk when I get bored... honky tonk loves their octave bounce)?

Arpeggios too - I don't want to ever... EVER fall back into the flat finger practice; but I don't want to hinder myself by taking this technique to far either. So arpeggios that incorporate 2 octaves or more, my tendency is to stretch my fingers so they are nearer their target. Practicing this with relaxed hands; it's certainly a much smoother ride, but I still feel some tension with prolonged arpeggios, in my right hand, especially in my pinky as the poor little guy wants to stretch. I feel it uncomfortably in my wrist as well (technically i feel it in the tendon, at the base of the carpals).
Is the ideal then to do a leap?

Finally... how much of my forearm/upper arm should be utilized? I'm thinking a lot... I definitely, after 24 hours of magic relaxed hands, feel stiffness in my forearm muscle (I've done weight lifting, so I've learned what's a good sore, and what's a bad. The forearm just feels like I've worked it out, not like it's a tendon issue, or pulled muscle). When playing, is it ideal to feel my forearm muscles working?

And the absolute final question - When playing individual notes, of a legato melody, fast or slow, how much of the effort should be individual finger movement versus forearm/wrist movement?

Wow... that's a long post. Thanks to anyone who reads even a little of this and replies!

[keyboardclass]

Sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to do.  On forearm - on the whole the slower I'm playing the more exagerrated the movement.  On arpeggios - don't try and do them legato.  Chopin said the timing and relaxed arm/hand movement is far more important.  It'd be nice to see a video.

[bustthewave]

Sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to do.  On forearm - on the whole the slower I'm playing the more exagerrated the movement.  On arpeggios - don't try and do them legato.  Chopin said the timing and relaxed arm/hand movement is far more important.  It'd be nice to see a video.

Okay that makes a lot of sense, and exactly what I was experiencing today and last night in terms of forearm movement. Chopin is my favorite composer, so I'll definitely take his word for it , and timing has always been my week point with arpeggios (and now I know the biggest reason why). Thanks a lot for the response!

I'll absolutely post a video! If my roommate isn't asleep by the time I leave for work, I'll hopefully have it for you tomorrow . If not, expect it saturday.

[keyboardclass]

Chopin is my favorite composer,

Post 1791 he's really the only composer!  He knew that himself.