Dante Sonata pedallings

[precipitato]

hi!

for liszt's dante sonata, liszt has written a really long pedal marks for many sections, e.g. pages 3 to 5. but they seem to be blurry at times, is there anyway to make them clearly? for those who have played it before, any idea?

[jmanpno]

This is a great question and largely dependent upon your pedal dexterity and manual ability.  I, for one, cannot flutter pedal to save my soul; thus, I do must rely on my fingers to thin out much of the texture.  Of course, it IS always fingers and feet together that generate the best results.

Here are some thoughts:

1) Pedal in four beat groups, use quarter pedal when textures thicken and use a half pedal to change.

2) Find some sort of pedaling that takes into consideration the direction of the motion and turn around point.... The advantage of this is the low laying passages tend to sound "thick" anyways, and you can change the pedal discreetly there...  Likewise, higher passages (if "phrased" correctly in this somewhat phrase-less area) may be prominent in another way and allow pedaling changes of a different sort...

3) Some many of flutter/continuous pedal... I saved this for last not because of my own inability, but rather because it is largely very personal... If you can make it work, do so.

Best of luck!

[j_menz]

Actually good advice from jmanpno.

You could also try dropping back to half pedal in the blurry bits and see if it helps.

[jmanpno]

i can play the piano, it must be said.  thank you jmenz.

[precipitato]

thanks! because i played this piece myself, i make those passages fiery and very blurry. however, i heard some pianists play it cleanly and fiery too, i'd like to try out their way too. i'll take your advice, but i believe there should be something else too...?

and also, for the presto ending right-hand leaps, any alternative fingerings? i use 2-3 and 2-4 for the right hand, just like Mazeppa. but, they're risky at times...

thanks!

[jmanpno]

precipitato, what are you referencing when you say that you believe there should be something else too?  Something more to the pedaling equation or interpretively?  I'll gladly share my own thoughts once I know what you are seeking more information on.

One thing to be mindful of is that that opening portion in repeated chords and octaves is marked "lamentoso".  I think that even after it get's rolling and is mf, ff, etc. that it still needs to maintain a quality beyond "fiery".  It's the wails of the damned, who are most assuredly in the fires (!), but I would ere on the side of pathetic... at least at first.  Once you get to the rotary octaves, etc. that is really where you want to open up and relish in the terror... Build your climaxes, don't kick the heck out of the piano!

As for the end, I would NOT advise that you use Mazeppa fingerings.  Use "consecutive third" fingerings.... Although I would be tempted to do the same in Mazeppa (yes, go against Liszt's fingers), I would be remiss to discuss that passage at length here.  I kindly suggest others not piggy back on this portion of my post. In any event, this is a totally different sound world and texture, more gossamer-like, quieter, etc.  If you would like my specific fingers I will give them to you in a future post... for now just try what lies under the hand..... And make sure the passage of the arm from octave to intervals and back again is carefully choreographed for maximum poise, ease, and beauty.