Any Joe can depress a key, the art is in what happens after

[keyboardclass]

the faster you want to play, the more hand relaxzation is required, that you use your momentum more than your muscle mass. Ease of muscle tension can create speed. ; also, playing slowly uses differnt part of muscles as  playing fast.

I can with that though why not try for more relaxation in slow play too?

[werq34ac]

Ah so you take advantage of other people's posts by only answering the latest post, while failing to answer earlier posts that are obviously questioning your logic. Does this mean we win? (I'm talking about the sports analogy, which relates to what happens after the key is depressed)

I can with that though why not try for more relaxation in slow play too?

Agree, "relaxation" should apply to slow play as well. The more correct way of stating what you said, johnmar, would be that one should be just as relaxed playing fast as when they play slowly. Yes?

I think it's agreed on all sides that muscle tension is VERY BAD in piano.

[keyboardclass]

Does this mean we win? (I'm talking about the sports analogy, which relates to what happens after the key is depressed)

Well, I favour the buttering toast analogy - it's about as relevant.

[pytheamateur]

Moura!  Yes, that's heavenly - I searched through at least another dozen recordings - she was the only one who faithfully imparted the score.  Oh, the picture is some of my students on the beach - doesn't it just suit?

Don't you dare say the clavichord isn't beautiful!

Ah, yes playing Bach on the clavichord is nice.  I was referring to the Chopin videos on the electric keyboard though.

[keyboardclass]

Ah, yes playing Bach on the clavichord is nice.  I was referring to the Chopin videos on the electric keyboard though.

Quite right DPs are nasty things.  I practice Chopin on a 5 octave clavichord rather than approach the hated thing!

[johnmar78]

Correct Werg, your phrasing is better. Yes, slow training is good, but at a certain point, it does not improve high speed playing due to LACK of muscle stimulations. Eg, think about sports, 100M sprinters and medium past runners...., you need build up power before starts to relax. No power = no talk...haaaaaaa

[werq34ac]

Well, I favour the buttering toast analogy - it's about as relevant.

Buttering toast... press too lightly and the butter won't stick. Playing piano... press too lightly and the note won't sound. You'd be surprised how relevant random things are.

As for the sports, we are talking about efficiency of movement in both, so please explain how the analogy is not relevant.

Anyway, for a more direct way to answer this thread,
After the note is depressed there is very little you can do to change the sound besides the way you release it. After I press the note, I can wiggle my finger all I want and it's not going to change anything. There may be certain subtleties with the releasing of the key, and yes any joe can press a button, but artistry in piano is the way we depress that key. What we do afterwards is either a psychological approach to depressing the key, or preparation for the next note.

[keyboardclass]

The point is key depression takes only a few 50th's of a second - that leaves a lot of time for the devil's playthings.

[werq34ac]

So? It's the moment at which the sound is produced. Anything done before or after is meant to enable to right way to depress the key (whichever way that may be). Key depression may only take a miniscule amount of time, but that doesn't mean it's not as important as after.

[keyboardclass]

Any child can produce a p, mf or F without much care.  Or put it this way - if you had plenty of time to put a key down would there be any problem?  any difficulty?

[j_menz]

if you had plenty of time to put a key down would there be any problem?  any difficulty?

Actually, yes.  If I'm playing fast (ie, don't have much time for each key), the keystroke is governed by where the whole thing is going at that point.  If I have heaps of time, such as in a very slow passage, each note has a much greater burden to bear in the interpretation and I have a lot more time to think about each one. Indecision can creep in and stuff the whole thing up.

[werq34ac]

Actually, yes.  If I'm playing fast (ie, don't have much time for each key), the keystroke is governed by where the whole thing is going at that point.  If I have heaps of time, such as in a very slow passage, each note has a much greater burden to bear in the interpretation and I have a lot more time to think about each one. Indecision can creep in and stuff the whole thing up.

Agree, Slow passages are always hard to control the tone for some reason. Starting the piece is the hardest to control the tone and with slow pieces, each note is almost like starting the piece. The problem is you have to connect with the notes before and after despite the vast emptiness (exaggeration of course, but provides a nice mental image) between the notes.

[keyboardclass]

The problem is you have to connect with the notes before and after despite the vast emptiness (exaggeration of course, but provides a nice mental image) between the notes.

My point exactly.

[nyiregyhazi]

My point exactly.

Your last point conveyed the very opposite. It's just that you're a troll who thinks it funny to make transparent contradictions and to switch point of view whenever it pleases you. If you seriously think the fact that any old fool can produce three dynamic levels is relevant, you have not understood what musical shaping is. However, nobody could possibly be so foolhardy. It's truly sad that you have more interest in trolling over ludicrous premises, instead of improving your playing and musicianship. What self respecting musician thinks it's somehow "funny" to pretend that any old crap goes when performing the act that defines tone production, and to construct false premises to support this nonsense?

[nyiregyhazi]

Agree, Slow passages are always hard to control the tone for some reason. Starting the piece is the hardest to control the tone and with slow pieces, each note is almost like starting the piece

If it feels that way, technical issues are likely arising that will almost certainly have spoiled the next note before you even sound it. No matter how slow, the next note should feel like a physical prolongation. Otherwise it is virtually guaranteed to sound as individual lumps. There's a very specific type of physical movement that offers much better control. The next note should not feel like a new physical act, but simply as a continuation.

[keyboardclass]

It's just that you're a troll

Then don't feed me you a-hole!

[jmanpno]

yes, gays, russians, and jews are the only ones who can play the piano.  any joe is just too, well, straight, gentile, or non-communistic.

[werq34ac]

yes, gays, russians, and jews are the only ones who can play the piano.  any joe is just too, well, straight, gentile, or non-communistic.

hello jmanpno, I mean none of those.

My point exactly.

Not quite, in between the notes besides hold the notes to be played. Each note is a continuation of the preceding note (as N said), which makes the attack on each note so critical in that the note should sound like it doesn't have an attack at all. Nevertheless, hiding the attack is in the attack ironically, and in between is so that you have the correct attack (which should sound like none at all) on the next one. Actually convincing yourself that there IS no attack on that note is incredibly helpful. Most of the things you do in between the notes I think is actually psychological.

[keyboardclass]

Let's just not do an American and leave out the exit strategy!

[perfect_pitch]

Then don't feed me you a-hole!

Considering your average internet troll can feast upon it's own waste - I'd personally just rather beat you to death, than wait for you to starve.