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Topic: Parallel Sets  (Read 10843 times)

Offline beebert

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Parallel Sets
on: March 21, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
Hi everyone!

I have recently read C.C Chang's Fundamentals of Piano Practice. The author talks a lot about Parallel sets practice as a very effective way of gaining technique and managing difficult passages in pieces. The problem is, I don't quite understand how to use this approach after reading his book.. I don't understand what it is really :P Can someone please try to explain these so called parallel sets and how to use and practice them for me? I would really appreciate it! I would also like to here your thoughts on these exercises, good or bad?

Thanks!

Offline schubertiad

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #1 on: March 22, 2012, 10:18:23 AM
Hi,
There is a lot of good stuff in Chang, but unfortunately his choice of language is a bit strange (I think that stems from his background in physics).

Anyway, the idea of a parallel set is that it is a group of notes which can be played without moving the hand. Think of a one-octave c major scale in the R.H. It is of course made up of 8 notes, but in fact requires only two basic positions, the first being the 1,2,3 on CDE and the second being the 1,2,3,4,5 on FGABC. In order to master the entire scale at tempo you need to be able to do just three tasks.
1. Be able to play a perfectly even CDE (the first parallel set)
2. Be able to play a perfectly even FGABC (the second set)
3. Link these two hand positions seamlessly.

Chang's suggestions for achieving 1 and 2 are very sound, i.e. starting each as chords, then slowing them down to evenly-played rolled chords. By far the harder task, however, is number 3, and this is where a good teacher is extremely helpful. The kinds of movements which are needed are easy to demonstrate but difficult to put into words (I won't attempt that here).

But anyway, you get the general idea.
“To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time.” Leonard Bernstein

Offline beebert

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #2 on: March 22, 2012, 05:09:48 PM
I see! I think I get the idea. Thank you!

By the way, why is it called "Parallel" though? What's "Parallel" about it?

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 10:42:16 PM
I'm guessing all the fingers could be considered to be working in parallel with each other until the notes of that hand position are finished.. Its not really the best language

I think they are very helpful and I use them frequently, but also that you must take some care in how you select your groups because they may encourage some undue stretching of the fingers instead of proper balance movement over a series of notes if you do not have an experienced eye watching over you..

Offline iratior

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 10:43:15 PM
I think I discovered some of this on my own. The idea seems to be to minimize the effort needed to do something.  I can conceive of the idea where motions are parallel but one of them might be interrupted.  For example, if it were a very fast C-major scale, maybe finger it as 34512345.

Online ted

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 06:32:29 AM
I also discovered that myself years ago. I think the principle is very old, long before Chang anyway - play separated groups up to speed and gradually join them. My technique's as rough as a bear's backside at the best of times, so I use many ways in case one particular way caves in. Aside from this, the musical effect of each can differ considerably depending on the speed and grips involved.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline piano_vs_science

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 05:29:41 AM
set theory!!! :D
"e^ix=cosx+isinx"
Leonhard Euler

Offline rmbarbosa

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 12:07:01 PM
The concept of PS, to Mr. Chang, implies that mind is more important than fingers. So, when we play for example CDE as a chord, the time spent to go from C to D is zero, then we are playing with Infinite speed. Our mind "records" that "infinite speed". Then, if we lift our 2º finger a bit and our 3º finger a bit more and if we allow our hand to fall into de keyboard, the 1º finger arrives first, then the 2º and then the 3º finger. What have we done? we have gone from "infinite speed" to a very fast speed. And it`s easier for us to diminish from "infinite" to "very fast" than grow up from "slow" to "fast".
In a scale, for example, we choose C-D-E and then F-G-A-B-C. We play CDE in PS many times, then the other group many times. And then we join the first 3 notes group with the other 5 notes group. After this, a problem remains: passing the 1º finger from its first position (C) to F. Traditionally, we must pass de 1º finger under the 3º finger. But, in very fast playing, we must avoid this and make a lateral mouvement of the first finger from C to F. I must apologize for my English....

Online ted

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 01:25:17 AM
I downloaded Chang's book years ago and found much of original interest and value. This business of groups connected by hand displacement is fine, and I found many ways to apply it in improvisation, usually with microsleeps. But what if the end musical objective is not smooth uni-directional sound, not the traditional playing forms of scales and so on ? What if, within a grip, we want to bring about non-uniform internal rhythms ? I have still found it necessary to cultivate independent finger striking within these discrete groups. This seems to me especially vital where the striking sequence of fingers is odd, for example 132435.... or in the case of striking in pairs, i.e. double notes.

To a certain extent this might be personal to me, as a rather bizarre improviser, but had I not cultivated independent finger striking technique in the first place, I doubt I could have applied Chang's displacements anywhere near as effectively as a creative option.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline maczip

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 03:25:22 PM
Hi,
first I´d like to shortly introduce myself: Stephan from Germany.
I am piano amateur and neurophysiologist. I recently read Chang´s tractate about parallel sets. This is great work to use different motor processing in the brain, theoretically, and it works with classical scales. I don´t know, how to train more complex movements, such as in Bach´s Inventio No 8 bar 4.
Greetings
Stephan

Offline pts1

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 05:01:01 PM
Hi Stephan

There are several things you can do with your example (bar 4, invention #8).

This measure, comprised of 3 repetiions of A, C, Bb, C, can be practiced with different
accents. First, as written, on the beat. Then you can practice "off the beat" accenting the second note ,C, and you'll find this takes more "mental" effort. Then put the beat on the Bb, and finally the 4th note, the second C.

All of these little variations of emphasis creates a different little "mental" as well as physical challenge.

In doing this, you're likely to discover that your fingers move a bit differently with each shift in accent illustrating the importance of subtle changes in hand and finger positioning.

By doing these four different accent variations, I think you'll find mastery over this passage.

Then, you can change fingerings as well trying 1 3 2 3, or 1 4 2 4 , or 2 4 3 4 or most difficult 3 5 4 5.

Eventhough you'll settle on one fingering, the exposure to different variations and fingerings will give you different neural/motor trainings which, IMO, will enhance your final chosen method of playing the measure.

I'm not sure I addressed your question, so if you're curious about anything else, just ask. :)

Offline maczip

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 05:23:15 PM
Thanks for answering such quickly!
These are excellent suggestions. I´ll definetly try them.

Anyway, my question concerned another issue. (but again your answer was very helpful, though)

What I ment was Chang´s parallel sets, which I guess I basically understand when used in a normal scale with finger sequences like 1234 or 2345 etc. I don´t understand, how this technique to be practiced with finger sequences, let say 3545 3545.

Offline pts1

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 06:45:44 PM
Stephan

Having read some of Chang's parallel set theory, I'm afraid I have some real problem with part of it.

The idea of grouping is very sound. Its important to break technical passages into their fundamental groups or clusters that fit your hand.

But the idea that you can take a C scale and break it into two very quickly played parallel sets, and then put them together utilizing the "phase angle" technique of simply rolling the hand, is not workable, IMHO.

First, by "rolling" the hand, you're not really articulating the fingers.
Secondly, to join the two parallel sets, you'll have to employ a different technique for the second set.

IOW, to play C D E is easy by rolling the hand/fingers. But then to join F G A B C evenly with the first set is not possible by again rolling the hand to play this second set. You have to get to the F first, and quickly shifting the hand to the right and doing it smoothly at a high rate of speed is not possible.

IMO, this "phase angle" business only works where a linear passage comprised of literally a "handful" of notes is concerned.

This is why you're having difficulty trying to play 3 5 4 5 on A C Bb C with this technique, which requires finger articulation and can't be done with the "Phase angle" technique.

I think this phase angle/parallel set theory has limited value in the real playing of real compositions.

For instance, I would challenge anyone to use his "phase angle" technique in the playing of Chopin Etude No 2 Opus 10. Or the first Etude, for that matter, which should be "ideal" for this technique, which it is not.

Now if you want to play a G7 rolled chord in the left hand and continue in the right, and make it sound like a seamless arpeggio... yes, this works well, i.e. (left)G B D F  (right) G B D F

Offline maczip

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 07:11:19 PM
Very interesting. I understand. Thank you!

The problem with Chang seems to be that there is light and shadow, and it is difficult for the lay to discriminate between, especially because Chang offers some very bright ideas in respect of brain and music issues and psychology.

Offline pianoyutube

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 11:04:03 PM


What I ment was Chang´s parallel sets, which I guess I basically understand when used in a normal scale with finger sequences like 1234 or 2345 etc. I don´t understand, how this technique to be practiced with finger sequences, let say 3545 3545.

here you have two PS: 35 and 45 and a link between them, that can also be considered a PS : 54
so you divide the sequence 3545 in two easy PS, and you can repeat it until you can play it superfast. Or you practice 3 PS. As you prefer.

Offline pianoyutube

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Re: Parallel Sets
Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 11:14:16 PM
I see! I think I get the idea. Thank you!

By the way, why is it called "Parallel" though? What's "Parallel" about it?
I think that is engineering terminology. Parallel being opposite to serial, as in computer communications. In piano playing serial would be a finger first and then another finger and then a third... Parallel is a chord.
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