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Topic: Tell us your tricks!  (Read 2013 times)

Offline franz_

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Tell us your tricks!
on: March 24, 2012, 01:59:37 PM
We all know pianists use tricks to make things more easy, sound better, play it in a more comfortable way.
Tell us what you do in which piece, and we call all learn from each other :)
Currently learing:
- Chopin: Ballade No.3
- Scriabin: Etude Op. 8 No. 2
- Rachmaninoff: Etude Op. 33 No. 6
- Bach: P&F No 21 WTC I

Offline m1469

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 03:22:03 PM
Actually, if you're looking for a bunch of readable tricks, one of the most extensive is Chang's book.  There are also valuable books and videos on posture and related matters from other authors.  There are also loads of practice "tricks" scattered around this site (of course a compilation of them in one thread is more precise).

But, what constitutes a "trick" anyway?  :)  Do you mean nuggets of wisdom, garnered from thousands of hours of thinking, trial and error, experience teaching, performing, practicing?  Sometimes gained only through an enormous and great personal sacrifice and deep anguish?  Or do you mean something else  ;D?
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline franz_

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 03:35:58 PM
Tell me more about Chang's book please?

And I mean, adding/removing some notes to make passages easier, take some notes in the other hand, play an extra base to make a bigger effect. Many pianist do does things... so, i'm curious :)
Currently learing:
- Chopin: Ballade No.3
- Scriabin: Etude Op. 8 No. 2
- Rachmaninoff: Etude Op. 33 No. 6
- Bach: P&F No 21 WTC I

Offline Bob

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 04:41:08 PM
Practice a lot.

Build up more technique slowly over time.

Take lessons from a good teacher.

Live, eat, breath, drink, sleep piano.

Set goals.  Bernhard had some good posts about breaking projects up and working on them in sections on here.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline pts1

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 05:09:59 PM
Tricks?

In the sense you mean, there really are no universal "tricks"... and I really don't like the word
since it implies a short cut or getting off easy.

If you don't want to "pay your dues" by doing the requisite work, then get the "easy" version of classics, which I'm sure will impress your friends.

It also depends of the piece. What for instance, is the "trick" with Chopin Etude No 2 (opus 10 #2)
Well, I'll tell you... the trick is to practice the chromatic melody with fingers 3,4, and 5 until you can play it up to speed and smoothly and melodically so as not to be interrupted by the playing of the little couplets played by the thumb and first finger. Also you can practice the 3,4,5 chromatics in different rhytyms.

These are some tricks.... does that help?  :D

Offline Bob

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 11:38:41 PM
There's another thread like this with 'tricks' in the title I think.  Or maybe 'cheat' or something like that.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 01:02:07 PM
Tell me more about Chang's book please?

And I mean, adding/removing some notes to make passages easier, take some notes in the other hand, play an extra base to make a bigger effect. Many pianist do does things... so, i'm curious :)
download it here for the low price of $ "FREE" .99  i.e made available for free by the author and publisher

https://www.pianopractice.org/

also attached

Offline Bob

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 01:48:28 PM
Acquire a large fortune so you have plenty of time available for practicing.  That's quite a trick.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline natalyaturetskii

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 02:29:27 PM
1. Ambition. That's the key in my opinion. If you don't want to do well - that's it. As long as you aspire to a dream you can achieve it.
2. Find yourself a good teacher. Teachers are everything. I'm with my fourth one, and he is by far the best. He inspires to practise more but also helps me technically.
3. Practice. You need to learn how to practise perfectly. Bad practice is worse than no practice.
4. Explore. By speaking to people or asking their opinion you can understand how certain passages are played and then figure out the best way for yourself.
5. Keep aspiring!
Bach:Prelude & Fugue in G minor, No.16
Schoenberg:Six Little Pieces
Beethoven:Piano Concerto No.5
It is cruel, you know, that music should be so beautiful.
~ Benjamin Britten

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 05:04:19 PM
There are many concert pianists who use "tricks" in some sense, it's a reality. But I have never yet met a great concert pianist who is really "cheating". They think very practical and adapt themselves as well as possible to the performance situation.

One of the most remarkable "tricks" I encountered, which actually almost borders on cheating: Alicia de Larrocha's interpretation of the Prelude (Asturias) from Albéniz' Cantos de España. I have listened to that in slow motion, and clearly she does not play the notes that come after the chordal leaps like they're written. I haven't yet figured out what she actually does, but she definitely changed the text in order to reduce the gap between the chordal leaps and the continuation of the melody!



from 0:36 in this recording.

Does this take away anything from her great interpretation of this piece? I don't think so. But I, for myself, don't use this "trick", I rather play the piece a tiny bit slower.

Another "famous" trick: the octave leaps at the beginning of Beethoven's op. 111.
Many pianists share them between the hands, for safety reasons. This does not at all change the text, it just makes the leaps more safe to play. But there are pianists like Arrau who would never ever do that. Arrau says that technical difficulty, as intentionally written by the composer, expresses a musical value per se! So, pianists who think like Arrau would consider this arrangement of the octaves to be cheating.  
I don't think it's cheating, as it doesn't change the text, but nevertheless, I chose to play the octave leaps with the left hand alone.

And I remember another one: Horowitz' chromatic octaves in the coda of the first Chopin Scherzo op. 20. Chopin wrote them as chromatic scales in parallel movement, not as octaves. Arrau says that it's much more difficult to play it as written, with all the accents on the first count, and he leaves no doubt that he doesn't like Horowitz' "trick" at all, I think he considers it to be some sort of "show-off"

Well, I personally find the octave version way harder...

Offline christovr

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 09:20:11 PM
A common trick is to leave out the middle note in a very fast ornamental turn as frequently encountered in Haydn .  Instead of c d c b c do c d b c.  Another related trick is the so-called crushed mordent: playing the main note and the (usually) upper mordent simultaneously - especially in a series of mordents in quick succession.

Offline ted

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 10:46:04 PM
I shall leave the discussion of "tricks" in playing classical and notated music to those here who know much more about it than I do.

However, in creative playing, improvisation, I am a veritable mass of "tricks". But why not ? Is music in its nature not all about "magic" and illusion anyway ? It would be straightforward, though not necessarily pleasant, if musical result were always proportional to effort and difficulty. If an easier movement produces a finer musical sound than a difficult option, then I see little sense in straining myself in order to prove I can do something.

Hundreds of instances come to mind, but one will do as an example. Continuous movement of anything is always more strenuous than movement containing rests, even if the rests are little more than microsleeps. Fortunately, continuous, homogeneous movement is also much less rhythmically vital than varied, heterogeneous movement. If I  actually liked the effect of smoothness I would have a problem. Luckily, I have never really understood the historical adulation of smooth, continuous movement and legato bores me solid.

So what I do in my improvisations, although the casual ear would never hear it, is sprinkle appropriate microsleeps within any required ferocious finger work, usually juxtaposed with coincident musical interest elsewhere on the keyboard - better musical effect, much easier physically - why not ? Doing this also avoids the hideous trap of subjecting my improvisation to the tyranny of notational thought and notational form.  
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline j_menz

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 12:12:04 AM
I, sadly, have no tricks.  My abilities, such as they are, have been acquired by hard work, learning and practice.  :P

Away from the piano, I do fetch rather nicely though.  ;D
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline iratior

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 02:16:19 AM
Here is an outrageous, but very effective fingering for Chopin opus 25 no. 11 (winter wind etude) measure 67-68 left hand:  123412341234123412341234123212321232123212321232

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 03:41:45 AM
Assuming your improvistion's timing/rhythm allows for it - if you hit a 'wrong' note, it can be easily hidden by first hitting it again (with some passion, you know, make it sound like you meant it) then resolving to a 'right' note..

and in turn -

When improvising - just hit a note, make sure your rhythm is good. Generally there's 7 notes in your scale/key, and 12 notes total in the octave. Firstly you are more than 50% likely to hit a note within the key, and if you miss it (hit a wrong note) whatever key is directly next to you in either direction is a 'right' note.

Offline ted

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 05:14:17 AM
Assuming your improvistion's timing/rhythm allows for it - if you hit a 'wrong' note, it can be easily hidden by first hitting it again (with some passion, you know, make it sound like you meant it) then resolving to a 'right' note..

and in turn -

When improvising - just hit a note, make sure your rhythm is good. Generally there's 7 notes in your scale/key, and 12 notes total in the octave. Firstly you are more than 50% likely to hit a note within the key, and if you miss it (hit a wrong note) whatever key is directly next to you in either direction is a 'right' note.

I'm afraid I am now well into the tertiary stage of that particular disease, wherein I actually like "wrong" sounds outside a "key" or "chord". It's rather like eating blue cheese. At first it seems strong, then after years of increasing consumption, nothing short of a copious slab of the stuff at a time will do. And the "adjacent note" mechanism you describe can be developed into a very powerful, general flow technique, where everything is in a constant state of drive and flux leading to something else, in or out of a scale. You can feel music of this sort is "going somewhere", and it's exciting, even if the classical brigade see it as going down the tubes; doesn't matter, it has life by virtue of its dynamic quality.

I do agree about rhythm and phrasing though. I am different to many in that these properties are far more important to me, far more conducive to improvisational life than harmony, which I see at best as a surface colouring. It's why, despite trying hard, I cannot grasp New Age or some of the meandering forms of modern classical and jazz. I don't mean square-toed, trotty groups of twos and threes, sixteen bars, answers and so on, like classical and pop. Neither end of this form spectrum greatly thrills me.

But of course these are purely personal reactions, completely individual tastes. Everybody is valid and different.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 05:22:32 AM
I'm afraid I am now well into the tertiary stage of that particular disease, wherein I actually like "wrong" sounds outside a "key" or "chord".

Yes this is my opinion too - its those notes that make the harmony interesting most of the time. Its a tips thread though, and for those still at the stage of needing tips for improv the adjacent note idea allows them to free themselves up enough to hit a "wrong" note - thereby developing an ear for all 12 notes instead of just losing rhythm all the time trying to hit the "right" diatonic ones..

Quote
even if the classical brigade see it as going down the tubes
I enjoy offending those types, and was once nearly banned from a competition for improvising..  ..excuse me for being a competent musician..  ::)


Quote
I do agree about rhythm and phrasing though. I am different to many in that these properties are far more important to me, far more conducive to improvisational life than harmony
I think there are no doubt individuals for whom harmony is the more important aspect.. but in general..

I think that if rhythm were not the more important aspect we would see a lot more primative cultures that sing with complex harmony and aimless timing instead of hitting things things with simple harmony and exquisite beat and pulse...  AND dubstep would not exist.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 05:50:31 AM
AND dubstep would not exist.

Haha, you say that like it would be a bad thing. :P

I would miss watching people fall over trying to dance to it, though.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
Haha, you say that like it would be a bad thing. :P

I would miss watching people fall over trying to dance to it, though.

hahah - There's not alot of music I dislike, but dubstep doesnt fall into the 'do like' category..

Offline jesc

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 12:58:59 PM
okay this is a bit low... well, I think it's low...

Back when I was playing Beethoven's Sonata Pathetique 1st movement. I was playing the part of crossing hand quite fast and it was suggested that I just press two successive notes together to simulate the trill (since it would sound the same at that pace).

I was like... "no way, that's cheap."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Tell us your tricks!
Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 10:14:57 PM
Okay this really helped me out with the Pathetique Sonata 1st movement and La Campanella!

For the left hand tremolos in the Pathetique and the 16th note octaves in La Campanella, it really helped to play as close to the edge of they key as possible and on the very tips of your fingers!
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