Ethical Dilemma Teaching Piano

[jayeckz]

This is a lengthy post, so I divided the initial post into 2 posts.  Please skip to the second post to just view the questions!  I'd like as many opinions as possible.

A few parents in my community have asked me to teach their children after I performed in a local recital as a favor to a family friend.

The problem is, I'm a mostly self taught amateur pianist and have no teaching experience.

Here's my background.  Feel free to comment even if you don't read my background .

When I was younger I took lessons with mostly unprofessional teachers.  The main teachers I learned from was a high school student and a mom that played piano for the local church.  I was forced to take lessons (I sometimes hid in my room to avoid the lessons) and never touched the piano out of lessons.  In addition to this, I never really experienced good playing.

When I first got the internet I downloaded a piece I had learned played by Horowitz.  I realized how awful my playing and my teacher's playing was.  I forced my parents to find me a new teacher.  Unfortunately, my mom brought me to a concert pianist when I was extremely underdeveloped - I couldn't read bass clef at this time and I wasn't even taught how to play the piano properly.

She told me that it'd be impossible to become a concert pianist, but encouraged me to learn any difficult pieces I wanted.  I was referred to another teacher who I learned from for about a year and a half.  He retaught me how to physically play the piano, but never really taught me about notation or rhythm and never really worked on making music. I think he assumed I knew all the notation because I could kind of play the music; in reality I just listened to recordings or watched him play the piece and emulated the positioning.

Since my lessons with that teacher I've been mostly self taught.  Actually, once I purchased a grand piano my playing quickly improved significantly.  I've tried to find a teacher, but the ones nearby can't really play or don't mesh with my learning style.  I've met one really good teacher, but she lived about 3 hours away if there's traffic.


I've declined 2 offers already, but there's one persistent parent that's insisting I teach her two children.  

Due to her persistence, I gave in to a free "lesson" where I mostly talked with the kids and the mom.  I asked them basic questions like why they wanted to learn the piano, did a game that encouraged rhythmic awareness, and gave them one exercise at the piano to encourage relaxed playing.  I actually had tons of fun.

After the lesson I told her my music background (to emphasize my lack of experience) and my lack of desire to teach, but she didn't care.  She's offered me $60/lesson (half hour lessons) two times a week for both the kids at the same time.  In fact, she's become more persistent after the lesson.

However, the main problem is that she knows my mom, and I'm getting pestered to teach those kids.

[jayeckz]

1) Should I go ahead and teach even though I have no teaching experience, no pianistic merit, and not much desire to teach?

Keep in mind that I'd be primarily doing this for the money. $60 dollars for a half hour is more than I make at my job. Secondarily, I'd get my mom off my back .

Because of my motivations, I feel that I have a moral obligation to decline teaching them.  Also, I've experienced many terrible teachers growing up; in retrospect most of these teachers had so much tension in their playing I'm surprised they didn't injure themselves.  It would be hypocritical for me teach without getting a more thorough music education, no?

2) Has anyone experimented with doing lessons based on time spent teaching much like a consultant?

I strongly disagree with the notion of having a fixed amount of time every lesson.  These kids were so excited and I had a lot to teach them; unlike me, they actually wanted to stay.  We could have easily gone on for 2-3 hours effectively.  However, I can definitely see cases where a 10 minute meeting would suffice for some students.

3) How do teachers teach students with poor quality instruments? Wouldn't it be unreasonable for me to request a passage to be played pianissimo if their piano isn't capable of playing pianissimo?  Likewise, isn't it unreasonable to expect students to play evenly if their piano keys aren't regulated properly?

I had a bad experience with a teacher because of the instrument I practiced on.  I was working on the first movement of the Haydn Sonata No. 60 in C Major.  I wasted so much time on the first page to get the sound I wanted on my upright.  When I went to my lesson on a beautiful Stienway grand my teacher assumed I didn't practice because I could only get through the first page with uneven and unmusical playing.

My upright at home had uneven regulation and no dynamic range.  If I play the first few measure of the first movement on this upright like I would on my new piano, I would probably produce a weak unmusical sound; however, on my current instrument I have exactly the sound I want.

I grew up being told that the piano doesn't matter and that you should be able to play anything on any piano.  This belief stuck with me until a year ago when I heard a Zimerman interview about him learning a Lutoslawski Piano Concerto.  I've wasted so much time trying to "develop" my technique for certain pieces and don't want any student to waste time like I have.  When I started piano shopping there were certain pianos I could kind of do what I heard on recordings (or I could immediately see a way to practice to develop the sound I want); I realized that my old Yamaha upright had significant limitations in the sounds it can produce and that a proper instrument is vital in developing pianists.

I would be teaching these kids mostly notation and rhythm through random games and to relax, but if I were to teach them, my goal would be for them to play well.  This would require a suitable instrument.

[49410enrique]

i've been asked if i would teach/if i gave lessons, normally i haven't had anyone be so pushy, but i always respectfully decline and if i feel like it, i just state simply,and concisely that i am still learning myself and am interested in my own persuits at the moment but thanks.  if someone were still insistent, i would refer them to a good teacher and leave it at that.

if you enjoyed part of the teachinig, you could compromise and agree to teach basic music fundamentals, theory, musicianship (i.e. if you have the ability things like tonal ear training, rhythm reading, etc). but make it clear you won't be piano teacher but rather  amusic tutor, and let the ball be in the parent's court. then it's their call, they know what you are offering and the expectations are going to clear.  it becomes their decision.

that's how i'd  handle it if it were me. just one dude's opinion...

[jayeckz]

Thanks for the response.

i just state simply,and concisely that i am still learning myself and am interested in my own persuits at the moment but thanks.

The problem is, I'm a hardcore gamer and she knows it because she's known my mom for a while.  I'd be embarrassing my mom if I said this.

Sorry ma'am.  I can't teach your children because I'm busy -- busy playing computer games.

if someone were still insistent, i would refer them to a good teacher and leave it at that.

Unfortunately, I don't know any good local teachers that are willing to take young beginners.  I won't be comfortable making a recommendation unless I can really vouch for him/her.

This is a great suggestion though.  Anyone know someone in the Long Island, Nassau area they can vouch for?

if you enjoyed part of the teachinig, you could compromise and agree to teach basic music fundamentals, theory, musicianship (i.e. if you have the ability things like tonal ear training, rhythm reading, etc).

The problem is I don't have any training in fundamentals/theory/etc.

I've had no formal training.  I feel that my level of playing implies a higher level of training in basics and theory than I actually have.  I wouldn't be surprised if I failed an elementary music exam (I probably wouldn't fail, but I am probably missing huge chunks of theory).

All my theory has been learned through google!   I'm sure I'm missing a lot of basic knowledge that I just haven't needed to deal with because of my relationship with the piano.

then it's their call, they know what you are offering and the expectations are going to clear. 

Actually I think I'm going to accept her offer.  As you said, she knows what I'm offering.  If she calls again I'm going to emphasize my shortcomings and then agree to teach her kids if she still wants.

[49410enrique]

yeah, let her give you her money. if someone insists on paying me for what i'm willing to give, so be it.

as for your counter to the 'your pursuits' deal, that's just it, you can do whatever the hell you want. you can play video games and who's business (certainly not hers) is it what you do with your time.  i mean you could decide to spend your time and money prostitutes and cocaine, and guess what it's not my call, your time your decision right?  heck i'd probably just throw that in their face and just honestly say, i'm actually prioritizing myself right now, that includes managing stress in a healthy way, i simply have no time for that responsibility beucase it cuts into my lifestyle too much.  it sounds like you have a whole other dynamic to deal with, 'mom' and all but still i'd stand my ground and just state what it is you want and are williing or not willing to do. if she still wants to give you an extra 480 dollars a month for that, heck yeah no skin of your back.  

[jayeckz]

as for your counter to the 'your pursuits' deal, that's just it, you can do whatever the hell you want. you can play video games and who's business (certainly not hers) is it what you do with your time.  i mean you could decide to spend your time and money prostitutes and cocaine, and guess what it's not my call, your time your decision right?

Just to give you a better context, I'm Korean. The Korean community that I'm a part of is quite small and, unfortunately for me, my mother values this community.  I personally don't give a *** what other people think about me, but my mom really cares about her and her family image.

She raised me and paid for my education; I have a great deal of respect for her.  Partly, out of this respect I don't want to do anything to embarrass her.

You have parents right? Can you kind of understand what I'm trying to say?

Also what's wrong with prostitutes and cocaine??

[49410enrique]

you're absolutely right, we should honor and respect our parents and elders. yeah with the baggage attached to your situation, i agree with you and i would just shut my mouth and do it for her, that you don't hate what you'll do and you'll paid very well makes it all the better. 

[mcdiddy1]

I think you should teach the kid. It seems like you enjoy teaching and have a great deal of experience of what poor teaching is and have a better understanding to where your teachers went wrong. 

I think you many not give yourself enough credit in what you already know and you need to not beat yourself up. Getting kids to be aware of rhythm and play in a relaxed comfortable manner are exactly what they need to be learning.

Those kids sound like they just need a good introduction into learning how to make music and need someone to guide them. You don't need to have to be a master in theory unless you are planning in entering them in a theory exam. I say if you teach them posture, good tone, hand position, a few pieces and they learn how to read some notes and rhythms after learning some songs you have started them on the right way till they get to a more experienced teacher.

Every teacher has to start from some where.  You should use they opportunity to learn first hand what teaching is like and what works and does not work. As long as you keep thinks interesting, short, and keep them active and engaged they should enjoy playing music and learning

[keypeg]

There is one huge plus here.  You have experienced what poor teaching is about, and the importance of the stuff behind music - technique and theory (in the real sense).  You will be very careful with these kids because of your experiences.  How many "teachers" - credentialed or uncredentialed - create a circus of aiming for the wrong goals or just not caring?  The very act of your caring makes a difference.  The fact that you searched for answers may mean that you know more than you think you do.

[ionian_tinnear]

Please don't take this a criticism, it is just my experience with the teachers I had when young.  And why now I only recommend certified teachers.  You wouldn't go to an un-certified/license doctor no matter how much they new about medicine..

When I started lessons at 4, I had a series of small town (population 900) teachers.  Some could play well, but none were actually educated to be music teachers.  So for 10 years, I did't get a real teacher and consequently didn't get theory and technique taught me.  Just the usual go thru a series of lesson books grade 1 to whatever.

When at 15 I did get with a teacher that taught piano in all respects, I had a real struggle to fix bad technique, posture, learn missing theory knowledge, etc.  The technique part I've never really recoverer from and now at 54, althought I play very advanced material, the more technically difficult, the less likely I learn the piece.

You sound somewhat like me.  My early teachers didn't teach.  I could always just site-read whatever they presented and so they thought I practiced.  Now I practice 2 hours daily and am progressing still, but where would I be if I'd had the technique lessons from the begginning?  Certainly, I hope, not working as a software developer, but as a pianist doing what my real love is.

If you can teach the really important things young children can learn easier than old farts like me, then go for it.  Otherwise, politley decline, and give this explanation.  Teaching is a skill you learn just as playing an instrument is.

[jayeckz]

Please don't take this a criticism, it is just my experience with the teachers I had when young.  And why now I only recommend certified teachers.  You wouldn't go to an un-certified/license doctor no matter how much they new about medicine..

When I started lessons at 4, I had a series of small town (population 900) teachers.  Some could play well, but none were actually educated to be music teachers.  So for 10 years, I did't get a real teacher and consequently didn't get theory and technique taught me.  Just the usual go thru a series of lesson books grade 1 to whatever.

When at 15 I did get with a teacher that taught piano in all respects, I had a real struggle to fix bad technique, posture, learn missing theory knowledge, etc. 

Your story is exactly what I'm worried about!  However, my last teacher before I got the concert pianist's opinion was a church mom that actually did have music teaching certifications.  Certification, unfortunately, doesn't guarantee good instruction quality; it only means the person has been certified to their standards.

The technique part I've never really recoverer from and now at 54, althought I play very advanced material, the more technically difficult, the less likely I learn the piece.

Even the most "technically advanced" pianists in the world will struggle more with a more "technically difficult" pieces.  Your reaction is completely natural; if it's hard you quit.  It's not an issue of technique; I think it has to do more with work ethic, habits, and determination.

You sound somewhat like me.  My early teachers didn't teach.  I could always just site-read whatever they presented and so they thought I practiced.

We had similar circumstances I suppose.  I was forced though and I never found piano interesting.  Once I was introduced to real piano playing I was hooked.

Also, my sight reading was god awful.  I don't know how I did it, but I learned some ridiculous pieces for me at the time mostly by ear and trial and error.

Now I practice 2 hours daily and am progressing still, but where would I be if I'd had the technique lessons from the begginning?

Unfortunately, we'll never know  .

Teaching is a skill you learn just as playing an instrument is.

I'm not worried about my teaching skills.  I'm worried about my lack of knowledge of piano and music. I had teaching experience with SAT prep (I taught SAT prep for 5 years since my senior year in high school).  Anything I've thoroughly studied I'm confident in teaching.  Unfortunately, my treatment of music and piano has been somewhat superficial mainly because I didn't think I'd have a career related to music.

[iansinclair]

To my mind this would only be an ethical dilemna if you were representing yourself as being someone you are not.  So long as you are clear as to what your training and skills are, and your student understands that, there is no ethical lapse (that I can see, anyway).