Two common piano myths busted

[robson]

I have just bought a baby grand piano (4'11") although been tempted by everybody I have talked to go bigger and I could because I have space and bread Not much more money would get me a 6'1" grand same maker but I decided to go through some piano salons and tested for myself...(below 7 footer of course)
Surprisingly I found size not a big factor at all as far as quality of sound goes, only loudness increased evidently but quality of sound very debatable. Some longer grands even were worse sound wise then shorter so that got me thinking and searching because why to spend more money blindly, right? Obviously I was not alone in that thinking. Here what I've found, piano myth busters:


Bigger Is Better

Actually, quality and size have nothing to do with each other.

As pianos get larger (longer grands, taller uprights) the have larger soundboards and longer strings. If all other things are equal, a larger modern piano will be louder than its smaller counterpart and with slightly deeper bass. Both of these are helpful in larger rooms, but they can be overpowering in smaller rooms.

Initially, all pianos were very, very large. The technology did not exist to make smaller pianos and since they were only purchased by royalty and the wealthy, there was no market for them anyway. As the piano began to grow in popularity, manufacturers began to experiment with smaller scale designs that would better fit in middle-class homes. Most of these pianos performed poorly, with tubby bass and thin tone. Then, in 1936, everything changed.

Steinway & Sons introduced the Model ‘S,’ a 5′1″ grand that rivaled the sound quality of big pianos, just with less volume. The Model ‘S’ had taken so long to develop that one of its designers referred to it as his “baby.” Since then, all small grand pianos became referred to as ”baby grands.”

Today, a piano professional can help you find a well-built, “baby grand” piano that will perform beautifully in an appropriate sized room.

“Is bigger ever better?”

Many of today’s better known brands build their smaller pianos to significantly lower standards than their larger grands. This has nothing to do with size. It’s simply a marketing decision that allows these companies to offer pianos closer in price to the best value brands. In all of these cases, the consumer is ”paying for the name.” You can always find a better built piano for the same or less money by a more progressive piano company.

Other common myth I have tested and busted personally in many music salons is:

A Tall Upright Is As Good As A Small Grand

This myth confuses quality and quantity. While the length of the longest strings and the size of soundboard area may be larger on a big upright than on a small grand, the small advantage of more boom in a piano is more than offset by the other benefits of a grand pianos.

There are three fundamental differences between grand pianos and uprights.

Shape…The grand piano is shaped basically the way it was almost 300 years ago. The design of a grand piano soundboard is very similar to the shape of a violin or guitar, while upright piano soundboards are square. The upright piano stands alone as the only ’square’ musical instrument. Square does not work as well for tone production.

Sound… A grand piano is open on the top and bottom allowing the tone to resonate throughout a room. Upright pianos are mostly closed boxes placed close to walls, designed to project the sound out the back and off of a wall. The best sound out of an upright piano comes when it is placed three feet from a wall, but this is impractical for most applications.

Touch… Better lever, quicker response… Grand pianos keys are nearly 30% longer than upright keys, giving grands considerably better leverage and more dynamic range. Gravity works with a grand action, bringing the hammer and other parts back to their resting positions quickly and naturally. Upright piano actions have to be designed to counteract gravity, causing them to respond more slowly.

There are some very nice upright pianos, but grands are always feel and sound better. That is why you never see upright pianos on concert stages or album covers.

https://www.steinwayorlando.com/mythbust.html

Anyway after experiencing personally what that site sates I completely agree with them.
What do you guys think?

[iansinclair]

I completely -- well, almost completely -- agree.  With regard to grand pianos, there are some who would say, for example, that the original Steinway A (from the 1890s) had as good an overall sound quality as any Steinway ever built.  The sound quality from a grand is much more a function of the scale of the stringing and the construction of the sound board than it is of simple overall length (and, as your quote points out, there is also a great tendency for manufacturers to build smaller instruments with less quality).  The problem arises, I suspect, from volume -- and this is a very difficult variable to control for.  All else being equal (an unlikely prospect) louder will often be interpreted to be better (one sees the same sort of thing in high end audio equipment -- unless the volume levels are very carefully balanced, and the equipment cannot be seen, louder will often be interpreted to be better).

There is also, of course, the normal human tendency to equate bigger with better

The comments on uprights are reasonable, too.  As it happens, there were a few uprights built around a century or so ago which had "baby" grand sounding boards, frames, stringing and pin blocks, just tipped on edge vertically (the pin block on the upper edge).  These illustrate the principle very nicely: they have, if placed in a decent acoustical location, very much the same tone qualities as the corresponding grands.  As your quote points out, there is still the difficulty of the action -- try as one may, an upright action is going to be more complicated, heavier, and therefore slower and less sensitive than a grand action.  I have one of these beasts, so I know!  (I might add that they are heavy -- and top heavy; they are very difficult to move!)

[hbofinger]

I disagree about the size issue. The problem with string length lies in the bass. You get marginal tonality out of a bass string at smaller than 5'7". Some people would even say minimum length really should be 6' or more. My piano size decisions have been based on the bass - on the grands I have had the privilege to own I went from a 5'7" Blüthner (with a shot pinblock) to a 6'7" Austrian-built grand to a 7'4" Yamaha (current instrument). All decisions were based on the tonality of the bass.

On the treble you will be fine on smaller instruments. One of the dangers of larger instruments is that the treble needs to be able to keep up with the bass. I am now on my first duplexed grand, and can clearly hear the difference. It even beats the Austrian-built piano I used to have in this regard, which was very high end, but not duplexed.

You can get a beautifully singing sound out of a smaller grand in the upper registers. There is no question about this.

[lhorwinkle]

Busted the myths? I don't think so.
More likely you're not able to discern the differences.

There may be some standout baby grands that outperform expectations.
But generally the babies are weak in tone. And, we're told, weak in workmanship.
Don't fool yourself.

[robson]

Busted the myths? I don't think so.
More likely you're not able to discern the differences.

There may be some standout baby grands that outperform expectations.
But generally the babies are weak in tone. And, we're told, weak in workmanship.
Don't fool yourself.

Go out and listen by yourself and don't repeat the slogans...
also if I am not able to discern the differences that's enough of a proof to me. 

[robson]

I disagree about the size issue. The problem with string length lies in the bass. You get marginal tonality out of a bass string at smaller than 5'7". Some people would even say minimum length really should be 6' or more. My piano size decisions have been based on the bass - on the grands I have had the privilege to own I went from a 5'7" Blüthner (with a shot pinblock) to a 6'7" Austrian-built grand to a 7'4" Yamaha (current instrument). All decisions were based on the tonality of the bass.

On the treble you will be fine on smaller instruments. One of the dangers of larger instruments is that the treble needs to be able to keep up with the bass. I am now on my first duplexed grand, and can clearly hear the difference. It even beats the Austrian-built piano I used to have in this regard, which was very high end, but not duplexed.

You can get a beautifully singing sound out of a smaller grand in the upper registers. There is no question about this.

the length of bass string is actual the main point of misconception. The technology and material used compensate the problem. Similarly in radio technology and long waves nobody use a mile long antenna but a fraction of that. I believe you can hear the difference when you went up almost 2 feet but I'm talking here about baby grands and a grands up t 6' plus differences.
Today many things depends on technology used so sure you can have longer piano sound better
but mostly because superior material used not a length but the opposite can be also truth when shorter piano sounds better.

Regarding the duplex scale...Duplex scale and/or aliquots are not necessarily a sign of quality or performance. Most grand pianos utilize aliquots in their stringing. Some of the most expensive and top performing grands in the world do not have duplexing and most of the cheapest and poorest do  Quite often they're silenced with felt anyway by technicians because of "noise" they do.

[perfect_pitch]

Bigger Is Better

Generally, I think this is actually right (I say that in General). I have played a few Yamaha C2's and a selection of various larger Yamaha C pianos and generally bigger is better. The sound is variably better. Now of course this doesn't completely apply to everything, but when comparing the same brand of piano to a bigger brand of the same piano - Bigger is better. But then again, you can sometimes have a dodgy model of piano, and every now and then something can be off...

A Tall Upright Is As Good As A Small Grand

I have never heard that myth but I'm willing to agree with you that an upright will never match the capabilities of a small grand piano, simply because of the horizontal and vertical hammer action at least.

[perpetual_dan]

While the grand may be nicer, at some point money and space come in and the sellers of uprights need a message that says "a good upright is an OK thing to have" ... maybe even better suited than a cheaply made grand that barely squeezes into the room. Which is probably where this kind of simplification arises, although I don't think I've heard the "as good as" one.

However, the article rather looses credibility with:

There are some very nice upright pianos, but grands are always feel and sound better. That is why you never see upright pianos on concert stages or album covers.

[johnmar78]

Hey Rob, I think size does matter, but the piano tuning is more important, it depend on who tunes it. Sometimes, in the shownroom, the crafty slide shifty saleman, may target a partiular :
paino and want to sell it to make theier commisions, this is what they might do"

1) tune up the worst piano or the most expensive ones

2) tell you the opposite which they tell white lies..

Longer the grand has a more bass so as trenble notes, much more solid crytal clear sound.
PROVIDED ONE CONDITION: tuned by the same technician with out any biased opnions.

If you tune your piano to concert pitch, it would be much higher than stock.
 I hope this makes sense...

[hbofinger]

the length of bass string is actual the main point of misconception. The technology and material used compensate the problem. Similarly in radio technology and long waves nobody use a mile long antenna but a fraction of that. I believe you can hear the difference when you went up almost 2 feet but I'm talking here about baby grands and a grands up t 6' plus differences.
Today many things depends on technology used so sure you can have longer piano sound better
but mostly because superior material used not a length but the opposite can be also truth when shorter piano sounds better.

Regarding the duplex scale...Duplex scale and/or aliquots are not necessarily a sign of quality or performance. Most grand pianos utilize aliquots in their stringing. Some of the most expensive and top performing grands in the world do not have duplexing and most of the cheapest and poorest do  Quite often they're silenced with felt anyway by technicians because of "noise" they do.

My previous was a a Bosi 200. Now on a Yamaha C7. Duplexing matters. At least to me. Period. I know that cheapos use duplexing as a sales point. That is not my market.

[robson]

My previous was a a Bosi 200. Now on a Yamaha C7. Duplexing matters. At least to me. Period. I know that cheapos use duplexing as a sales point. That is not my market.

I know, I know - people have to justify somehow why they spent so much money...

[hbofinger]

I know, I know - people have to justify somehow why they spent so much money...

Oops - what is that supposed to mean? I downbudgeted and still think I got the better piano for what I am playing right now! (The Yammie is a 1970 that was just rebuilt in Japan last year, i.e. grey market, and I basically got it for 19k plus transport and DampChaser, while the previous one (Bosie) I sold for over 30k.)

[iumonito]

First, an upright and a grand are simply not the same instrument.  Gravity-based action alone should suffice to differentiate these cousins.  No one wold consider a clavicytherium a harpsichord, even though both are plucked string keyboard instruments.  Same difference with the upright and the grand.  88-keyed hammer keyboard instruments, yes, but not comparable.

That said, you can have a very good upright and a very bad grand, and the former will be more pleasant to play than the latter.  Still, different instruments that cannot be compared on equal footing.

Then, grands and size: you can't teach tall.  The shorter the scale, the thicker and tubbier the bass strings.  A thick string does not vibrate very nicely, so you get that godawful sound that I think of when I remember grands smaller than 6'10".  Yuck.  The longer scales have thin bass strings (the thinner, the better), resulting in a cleaner sound.

But there is so much more to piano design than the speaking length of the lower strings!  Soundboard design, ribbing, rim bracing, point at which strings cross, bridge placement, and a myriad of other factors have a decisive influence on the acoustic properties of pianos, and the whole question of the action, with the balance, inertia, mass, hardness, and weight of hammer and keys, and the excruciating nuance of friction inherent in all those little pieces between the key and the hammer, very immediately will make the pianist fall in love with the instrument of hate it.

You of course can have a piano with a very good action, which feels good to play, but sounds not so good because the scale is too short (I am thinking of one of those exquisite 190 cm instruments made by high-end makers), and some other instruments that are horrible to play, even though they have the size to sound better (like those low-end pianos in their larger models).

You can fix an action much better than fix a scale, though, so when in doubt, get the bigger one and then work on the action.  You can teach a kid to shoot the ball better, but you can't teach tall.

The myths are not busted.  They are generally true.