Vienna

[m1469]

To follow the progress of my musical and personal journey in Vienna and Italy, tune in here:  https://kruegertravel.blogspot.com/


I think I might *have* to spend 1 or 2 days in Vienna as a very deep part of my musical journey ... This is because I have deeply longed for a musical journey in (throughout) Europe, but have consciously put it aside for about 15 years or more (probably something even more deeply longed to be there throughout my growing up, but I didn't yet know what that was (since I didn't know about the musical significance of Europe and that Vienna existed until some certain point)).  It has never been right and then branched into seeming impossible.  But, since I am going now at least to Northern Italy for music studies, if I have to choose one thing/place that I *must* go to should I never return, it's Vienna.  Everybody went there, and I must go there, too, at least as this one tiny little tag to a journey I am already making.  If you have been there, please tell me what you feel is a musical highlight (or anything else you feel you would like to share!).

[goldentone]

I haven't been to Vienna *yet*, but I feel the same as you.

[m1469]

Yeah, if I do *no* other anything besides the Festival (but there is a one-day trip to Salzburg with that, so that's great!), I have at least to visit Vienna, this is factual!!  

My dream was to travel throughout Europe for 5 years and live out of my backpack ... I would love to trace some journies of some of the greats ... see different Liszt perspectives (his Annees de Pelerinage travels ... that would be very cool), see Beethoven and Bach related everything, some Mozart stuff, and then whoever else after that.  Those are my biggies, though.  I was thinking, it was very difficult, actually, for me to decide not to do that journey - it was a deep life decision which coincided with an unforeseen change in circumstances (even though I had no formal plans yet), but so much has happened since, and there are some very real parts of that which I am very grateful for and don't feel I would've wanted to miss.  Who knows what would have happened had I gone?  But, Vienna must be in the plans, at least.  Maybe one day in my life, there will be more .

[m1469]

meh

[m1469]

Ok, I don't really know if it's going to happen  .  I guess I'm dreaming a little.    This thread can be about how cool it *would* be  .

[ahinton]

Don't forget to visit Schönberg's birthplace in Mödling (on the outskirts of the city) or the Schönberg Center.

Best,

Alistair

[m1469]

Yeah, now it might be back on  .  I got freaked out and overwhelmed looking at one railway's fares, but found out those are overpriced and there are some better prices out there... and now I'm looking at hotels and there are some reasonable rates for those, as well, plus I'm looking at less expensive flights ... AND, I found a pdf of a walking tour of a ton of composer's/musician's stuff to see ... so, *maybe* ... *maybe*  ...

This is all a growing experience for me 

[m1469]

It's not just that I want to see some place where these people/humans/musicians were, and see some shred of these people/humans/musicians ... it's like there seems possible to be a thread of the music that drew them there, still there.  Somehow just echoing around ...

[pianowolfi]

I think a trip from the place of the festival to Vienna would be very stressful, in one day, since it's like 400 miles one way, and you wouldn't have time to see anything in depth, before you have to go back. I know that they are offering a trip to Venice, and first when I read your topic I thought perhaps it would be an option to travel to Vienna instead of joining the Venice Trip, but there's just not enough time. And Vienna deserves definitely more than only one or two days. Perhaps it would rather be an option for you to add a few days in Vienna after the festival?

[m1469]

Thank you, Wolfi, very much for your thoughts!  Actually, I will go there before the Festival, and it will be a few days ... I have a commitment back in reality on the Saturday of July 28th, which at this point I am not going to break (and involves a bit of driving).  I think I will plan a train from Vienna to the Festival on the day of arrival ... this is all, of course, if it can work out.  At the very worst, if train tickets are crazy, etc., I am simply stuck in Germany for a few days and will do very inexpensive things!  A few days there before the Festival, anyway, should give me some kind of chance to acclimate before I go to the Festival, which I need.  It was *really* stressful trying to figure out exactly how to get there and make the shuttle all in one foul swoop ... and then be super jet-lagged (I'm assuming) once I'm there.

[m1469]

Yeah, actually, if I do my plan as I'm considering, I will be there three full days without travel.  But that's where I wonder a little if I should really spend those days just there ... is there really enough to see?  Is it *only* tourist trap or is it really going to be worth my tiny little time and morsel of a first (and maybe only?) European experience?  So, I have a couple of other plans, of course, rattling around ... just to make sure .  I'm mulling those over and we'll see where it settles ... I'm pretty certain I'm still leaning towards Vienna, though, as I *think* this would be my biggest regret to miss if I made it that far and never went to experience, and never returned to that area.  Plus, it seems nearly first on a list of things that I currently perceive as significantly affecting my perspective in one way or another, so that's more of my life and more of my music making that I will live with that perspective.  I think I will try to take the extra trip to Venice through the Festival, too.  I *think* !

[thalbergmad]

The best time to visit Venice is at night.

By day, it is too noisy, full of pick pockets and covered in bird crap.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

I have been only once to Vienna, in 1984, when I was 20. (Whereas I have been to Salzburg rather often). I think it was most important to me what I did there: Visit an opera performance (The Flying Dutchman), a piano concert by a female pianist whose last name was Fischer (But unfortunately I can't remember her first name). She played Gaspard de la nuit and Beethoven's op. 111, and something more that I don't remember. It was wonderful!!
And most of all I wanted to see one of Beethoven's pianos!! I went there (back then it was called the "Instrumentenmuseum", I think, now it's called "Kunsthistorisches Museum") and I played one note on Beethoven's Erard grand from 1803!! The guard immediately stopped me...

I have seen and visited the Stephansdom, and the Prater and other important places, but I don't remember all.
There is certainly more than enough to see in three days, for sure. I think it's important to make a strict selection of priorities before you go there.

[m1469]

Thank you, again!  Yes, top priorities for me are Beethoven, Bach, Liszt.  I'm open to others (and I think it's a bit unavoidable), but those are the giants for me.  I absolutely have to capture some glimpse of their worlds, but I'm going to have to check my historical facts and find out just how much a part of their worlds Vienna was, first.  I'm also not knowing *at all* how big Vienna is, so if  I plan to see certain things, I assume I will need to plan to stay somewhere within a reasonable vicinity to get to those things (or have some working understanding of what I need to do anyway if I'll need to transport there), AND, I want to plan my trains in and out of Vienna, accordingly, too (if there's more than one station).  I've pretty much never seen/heard an Opera, so maybe that would be a good thing to plan to do there.

OK, so, first steps, I think, are finding out how big Vienna is, what I want to see and where that is, and then book trains and lodging.  Then there will be more details.  I want to be really organized going into it, even if there's something in my plans that I change when I'm there.

PS - oh!  I will probably have to play some note (maybe the entire Appassionata  ) on Beethoven's piano ... so I will be sure to plan accordingly and bring a big, raw meat to toss at the guard for a distraction   (and I will be sure to tell him hello for you  ).

[pianowolfi]

Don't forget Schubert. If I ever visit Vienna again, I would go after Beethoven and Schubert! Bach has never been in Vienna, but his influence on the Viennese classical period is of course most important. And don't forget Chopin. He left his homeland to start a career from Vienna. He "failed" there completely, and he felt so lost, and he visited the Stephansdom in this state of being lost, and knowing what's going on in Warsaw, and that was his inspiration to compose his first Scherzo op. 20 in b minor!

Edit: I'd listen ever so happily to your Erard-Appassionata btw.

[m1469]

Don't forget Schubert. If I ever visit Vienna again, I would go after Beethoven and Schubert! Bach has never been in Vienna, but his influence on the Viennese classical period is of course most important.

Oh, ok.  I just thought I read somewhere (quickly after I posted that stuff) that Bach did study there a bit, but I don't know and can't remember from other stuff I've read (and I had only just read what I thought was that in a summary of a hit on a google search).  

And don't forget Chopin. He left his homeland to start a career from Vienna. He "failed" there completely, and he felt so lost, and he visited the Stephansdom in this state of being lost, and knowing what's going on in Warsaw, and that was his inspiration to compose his first Scherzo op. 20 in b minor!

And this I really didn't know at all, especially that he failed there!  I have read the name "Stephansdom" from this site that I found last night: www.wien.info/en/sitemap

There was a section about walking tours and one that starts there at the Stephansdom.  I am going to scour that site this evening and find whatever else possible under the sun that I can!  

Edit: I'd listen ever so happily to your Erard-Appassionata btw.

 

[pianowolfi]

That "meat at the guard" is hilarious !  I'm not sure if I used the right term,  I meant perhaps "museums attendant". English-German is full of traps, even after years and years. Just today a student made me realize the difference between "bow" and "bow"....

[ahinton]

The best time to visit Venice is at night.

By day, it is too noisy, full of pick pockets and covered in bird crap.

Venice? Quoi?...

Best,

Alistair

[m1469]

The best time to visit Venice is at night.

By day, it is too noisy, full of pick pockets and covered in bird crap.

Thal

I don't know that it's an option!  But, I will certainly keep in mind your wise advice .


Another thing I certainly plan to do during my hours of travel to get there, when I have a very short (I think an hour) stop in Amsterdam, I will at least look out the window of the airport and view all of the legally intoxicated people walking around.  From what I gather, that would pretty much garner a genuine impression of Amsterdam.

[thalbergmad]

I will at least look out the window of the airport and view all of the legally intoxicated people walking around.  From what I gather, that would pretty much garner a genuine impression of Amsterdam.

You would need a large telescope since the Airport is about 10 miles away from Amsterdam and you would need to visit a "coffee" shop to see legally intoxicated people. Regretfully, it appears now that a law is being passed so that certain outlets can only sell drugs legally to the Dutch.

Amsterdam is my favourite City. Loads of Museums, loads of bikes, the largest 2nd hand sheet music store you have ever seen and the room service is the best in the World.

Thal

[m1469]

You would need a large telescope since the Airport is about 10 miles away from Amsterdam and you would need to visit a "coffee" shop to see legally intoxicated people. Regretfully, it appears now that a law is being passed so that certain outlets can only sell drugs legally to the Dutch.

Amsterdam is my favourite City. Loads of Museums, loads of bikes, the largest 2nd hand sheet music store you have ever seen and the room service is the best in the World.

Thal

Oh 

[m1469]

Oh goodness, I've just looked up the population of Vienna and it's really huge-seeming to me ... over 1.7 million ... eeek.  I'm definitely going to have to figure out how this works.  As I said, the worst that will happen is that I stay in Germany, in some little hotel, doing nothing but looking out the window at all the scary people ... haha.

[ahinton]

Oh goodness, I've just looked up the population of Vienna and it's really huge-seeming to me ... over 1.7 million ... eeek.  I'm definitely going to have to figure out how this works.  As I said, the worst that will happen is that I stay in Germany, in some little hotel, doing nothing but looking out the window at all the scary people ... haha.

Well, it is a European capital - but it's not so large that you could stay in a little German hotel and look out of the window at all the scary Viennese (and why in any case would they be "scary"? - it's not even as if they're all Kandinsky and Schönberg, you know!); you'd certainly have need of quite some telescope in order to be able to do that...

Best,

Alistair

[j_menz]

it's not even as if they're all Kandinsky and Schönberg, you know

Nor that other (in)famous Austrian.

[johnmar78]

Malya, while you in Austria, please visit the palce wehre"sound of music's movie was made". I loved the scene, so if I were you dnt firget post us some of your wonderful music journy's picture, especially to the place I've  mentioned.

[ahinton]

Nor that other (in)famous Austrian.

Indeed; I thought perhaps that this would go without saying (or rather writing).

Best,

Alistair

[m1469]

Well, it is a European capital - but it's not so large that you could stay in a little German hotel and look out of the window at all the scary Viennese (and why in any case would they be "scary"? - it's not even as if they're all Kandinsky and Schönberg, you know!); you'd certainly have need of quite some telescope in order to be able to do that...

Best,

Alistair

Yeah, I'm not sure what I was imagining (it's already breaking my imagination  ).  I had some impression of this village-type place, where I could stumble around if needed be and find my way.  I have no idea why I was thinking that!  And at first I didn't know quite how to quantify that many people, but that would be approximately 3.5 times bigger than the largest city I've lived in, and I can measure it according to another city I've visited on numerous occasions (though haven't really explored).  Between that, though, and at the time feeling a little confused about lodging and trains, I got overwhelmed.  

BUT, I've actually booked my lodging in Vienna as of last night, having happened upon a rather extremely good deal (between its promotion and a 10% discount given to me through Orbitz for booking my flights with them).  SO, I'm going  .

I still don't quite understand the train situation, though ... but from what I'm gathering, I can pick one up straight from the terminal in Germany and get one (with changes) to Vienna, but I don't understand the streets yet and which stop puts me near my hotel area. There's still a ton I'm figuring out, but I've realized that I probably want to purchase a Vienna card, which gives me unlimited travel on their public transportations and tons of discounts for 72 hours ... which will be *perfect* ... for under $20E.

Yeah, I'm starting to get at least *some* definition to this ... more to be done, though.  Trains is next, as I also have to understand how to leave Vienna, but OK, one step at a time.  I think I will need to find somewhere to practice for a couple of hours on two days ... hee hee... and, I think I'll keep your suggestion in mind, john ... I still have very little idea what I'm getting into (but I'm getting a better idea!).  

Oh, and I WILL have a special place on my professional blog for photos and such in these journies .

[pianowolfi]

U-something means the subway.
If you like you could take a train to Innsbruck on the day you're leaving Vienna, and I could pick you up there.

[m1469]

U-something means the subway.
If you like you could take a train to Innsbruck on the day you're leaving Vienna, and I could pick you up there.

Wow, thank you!  This seems like a very nice option, and I could have a little peek at Innsbruck!  Probably it will be easier to understand a train that goes from point A to point B in the same country, too.  Things are going to get really crazy and busy in the next several days here, but I will message you as plans shape up .

[goldentone]

and I played one note on Beethoven's Erard grand from 1803!! The guard immediately stopped me...

Wolfi!

Arrest that man!

[m1469]

I am really not understanding the trains ...

1.  I think there are different companies that run trains, like there is eurail and then there is the Italian Railway Co., the German Railway Co., the Austrian Railway Co., etc...
      - But, do all the companies use the same trains and same rails and stations as each other?  I mean, is eurail, for example, an umbrella company that uses certain countries' trains and stations, etc.?

2.  Also, if I am trying to find a train through the German Railway to Vienna, is it actually showing me a train that gets all the way into Austria/Vienna?  

I know these might seem like silly questions, but I don't quite understand how it works.

I did find this, too, through eurail, which is helpful to see it (and I've been needing something like this to better understand):

https://www.eurail.com/sites/all/files/eurail.com/downloads/2012/eurail-railwaymap-2012.pdf

But, does that show all the possible tracks and stations, or just those through eurail?

[pianowolfi]

Eurail is rather for persons who want to travel around unlimitedly with a sort of "flatrate", from country to country, from city to city. They offer different "passes" and the local pass Germany-Austria starts at €228. I think if you'd like to travel around very much between Austria and Germany, or within Austria and Germany, this would be a good option, but if you are only planning to take a train from Munich to Vienna and from Vienna to Munich, or to Innsbruck, it might be cheaper to book via German Railway company
https://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

according to your flight schedule/probable state of jetlag etc. The connections between Munich and Vienna are really direct and uncomplicated.

 (Example: savings fares from €39: https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query2.exe/en?ld=9644&seqnr=2&ident=el.01989244.1337297701&rt=1&OK#focus )

and Austrian Railway company

https://www.oebb.at/en/index.jsp for Vienna-Innsbruck.

or just buy a ticket at the local station, as soon as you get there.

[pianowolfi]

Wolfi!

Arrest that man!

Lol 

[Bob]

Are those magnet bullet trains?  Or is that just France?

[pianowolfi]

Are those magnet bullet trains?  Or is that just France?

Magnet bullet? No. High speed yes, they have the "Railjet" or "ICE" (Inter City Express) like in France the "TGV" (Train à grande vitesse).

[Bob]

When is this trip?

https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/italy-earthquake-seven-dead-50-injured-authorities-154634480.html;_ylt=AiaLlqa9pNixjiI1mSvZ_Pqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNsbjZuam4zBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBGUARwa2cDMjNiMGI4NmMtMzAxZi0zZmIzLTlhOGEtMWFhN2M5OWVjZDA2BHBvcwM0BHNlYwN0b3Bfc3RvcnkEdmVyAzIzNWUxYjI0LWEyZDEtMTFlMS1iZmJiLWJlMzk1OTQ2NGI2MQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFlamZvM2ZlBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3



https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/20/world/europe/italy-earthquake/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

[m1469]

When is this trip?

Not soon enough and too soon, all at once. 

[49410enrique]

missm1469will you be stopping in france on your way? i ask since france was brought up a couple of times and in terms of 'places' to see, we read about how oppulent and beautiful versailles was/is but then an HD video like this comes along and totally gives a mouth dropping visual about how beautiful it must be,

[m1469]

missm1469will you be stopping in france on your way?

Nope!

[oxy60]

The best time to visit Venice is at night.

By day, it is too noisy, full of pick pockets and covered in bird crap.

Thal

And your favorite night club/pub would be?

[oxy60]

And m1469, there will be plenty to see and experience during your non travel days. I know it costs a fortune to go anywhere in Europe these days but if you are open to new things you won't feel cheated. Think of your trip as a blank piece of paper upon which you will write something.

I often go back to the same destination and no matter how many times I've been there, I always discover something new.

[thalbergmad]

And your favorite night club/pub would be?

I am too old for clubs

[m1469]

And m1469, there will be plenty to see and experience during your non travel days. I know it costs a fortune to go anywhere in Europe these days but if you are open to new things you won't feel cheated. Think of your trip as a blank piece of paper upon which you will write something.

I often go back to the same destination and no matter how many times I've been there, I always discover something new.

It is not that I don't fundamentally enjoy spending money, in fact I find that to be very fun  .  It's very much deeper than that, and related to the fact that I don't feel right about spending limited resources on mere self-indulgences (not that I am without self-indulgences to work through), especially when the percentage of those costs are very large in comparison to income.  My husband and I have been supporting my musical endeavors of the last few years as the main avenue of our house-hold expense (cutting out *many* everyday things that people take for granted), after mortgage and utilities, etc., and even though I have experienced the hands of generosity towards me from others for my endeavors this summer (and this is *extremely* helpful in making it even possible), I want to make sure I am wisely directing myself in keeping my experiences to those which I think I couldn't live without.  

My life seems to be undergoing some changes, but if you have ever been in a position of feeling like you are on the very edge of losing everything you own and that this possibility could have potentially been avoided if not for mere self-indulgences (IF that's all they were), AND you feel responsible (at least to some large degree) for somebody else's well-being, you would know the sincere feeling of wanting to be wise and make sure there is something bigger than oneself guiding one's investments.  That being said and along the lines of my life changing, I just had a transforming and really quite remarkable weekend at a Liszt Music Festival not too far from my home.  I feel like a completely different person than the first day I was there, and my inspiration towards music and piano and even people and life are on a completely different, and fairly deeply fulfilling level.  It's these experiences that I can't live without and that I am so deeply hungry for.  I feel a sense of responsibility towards the experiences I choose for myself, but that responsibility includes the need to discern with some sense those which will be beneficial for everybody in my life for the very fact that I live a life that is deeply true to myself.  And, if this past weekend could change my life, I can only imagine what my experience will be in Europe/Vienna/Italy, immersed deeply in music and surrounded by musical souls and minds who I will encounter.

[thalbergmad]

And, if this past weekend could change my life, I can only imagine what my experience will be in Europe/Vienna/Italy, immersed deeply in music and surrounded by musical souls and minds who I will encounter.

No doubt, it will change you permanently.

Reading your posts over the last few years, you strike me as someone that is in the "wilderness" as we say in England. This trip of yours is not just something that you want to do, but something you simply have to do and you are going to be as restless as a bot fly until it is done. But when it is done, your path will be more clear, but it is a one way street with no way back.

This is it me old Foxy, this is the big one.

Thal

[Bob]

Good luck.  I predict the same m1469 at the end of the summer though.  Change, changing, but still unsatisfied, still searching.

[m1469]

Good luck.  I predict the same m1469 at the end of the summer though.  Change, changing, but still unsatisfied, still searching.

haha ... well, I think you are both right  .  Of course I have been searching all my life for ... nearly as long as I can remember, though I do remember a time as a small child where I was perhaps just more observant, only, I'm not positive.  What has changed over time is the quality of thought, and the quality of the search.  Even though it's fair to think we don't necessarily find this one, end thing, like a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow (or maybe it's more like a silver watch inside of a giant pile of elephant dung ... ), I think there are "types" of satisfaction.  This last weekend, even though absolutely filled with *amazing* music and people, my impulse upon arriving home today was to contact my teachers about when can I be for lessons?  Please, when, when, I say??  hee hee ... poor souls  .  Yeah, OK, I'm a hungry lady ... but there are ways to "eat" which give you nutrition, though you will get hungry again since always we need food (and there are ways to eat in which do not give nutrition).  It's definitely right for my life to be out of stagnation and being something I am living and moving and breathing inside of in a fuller way.

[austinarg]

haha ... well, I think you are both right  .  Of course I have been searching all my life for ... nearly as long as I can remember, though I do remember a time as a small child where I was perhaps just more observant, only, I'm not positive.  What has changed over time is the quality of thought, and the quality of the search.  Even though it's fair to think we don't necessarily find this one, end thing, like a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow (or maybe it's more like a silver watch inside of a giant pile of elephant dung ... ), I think there are "types" of satisfaction.  This last weekend, even though absolutely filled with *amazing* music and people, my impulse upon arriving home today was to contact my teachers about when can I be for lessons?  Please, when, when, I say??  hee hee ... poor souls  .  Yeah, OK, I'm a hungry lady ... but there are ways to "eat" which give you nutrition, though you will get hungry again since always we need food (and there are ways to eat in which do not give nutrition).  It's definitely right for my life to be out of stagnation and being something I am living and moving and breathing inside of in a fuller way.

No matter what happens in your journey, I want photos. Lots of photos. I hope you enjoy it!  

[m1469]

No matter what happens in your journey, I want photos. Lots of photos. I hope you enjoy it!  

Yeah, OK . 

[oxy60]

It is not that I don't fundamentally enjoy spending money, in fact I find that to be very fun  .  It's very much deeper than that, and related to the fact that I don't feel right about spending limited resources on mere self-indulgences (...)

Some of my most memorable encounters where when I was traveling on a shoe-string, sleeping six up second class and staying in hotels with showers and toilets down the hall. Of course those days are long behind me but so are those encounters. Now the accommodations and dining are better but the memorable encounters are very rare.

It won't be all those sights that will stick with you but  remembering the people you met against the background of those sights.

[m1469]

Some of my most memorable encounters where when I was traveling on a shoe-string, sleeping six up second class and staying in hotels with showers and toilets down the hall. Of course those days are long behind me but so are those encounters. Now the accommodations and dining are better but the memorable encounters are very rare.

It won't be all those sights that will stick with you but  remembering the people you met against the background of those sights.

Yeah, it's sometimes a little embarrassing to admit what kind of budget I'm on when surrounded by people who don't seem to be on one at all (and feel it necessary to ask me where I am staying, etc.), but somewhere in me I believe that the right people are the right people and I believe it's possible to see each other as ourselves (I won't be bias, and perhaps they won't, either).  Part of the transforming experience for me this last weekend was a fundamental alteration in how I thought of my relation to people and my ability to relate.  It's not easy for me, but something I realized is that there are fundamental aspects of my personality which need to be adjusted if I should ever wish to accomplish certain things as a pianist/musician, and one of the differences between my pianistic endeavors and singing is that I love the piano so much, I reach a point of being willing to make deep personal adjustments even if it's really scary and difficult for me (singing, alone, wouldn't be enough for me to be willing).  

I'm still learning and it might take awhile, but I feel there were some good breakthroughs, and also seemingly accepting and open individuals there (though there were some things I couldn't seem to quite overcome).  What I *can* be is open and trusting, but wise, and this is very much what I feel I must be fundamentally demonstrating on a higher level as a player/musician.  I realized that it is rooted in my everyday living, and not just when I play the piano and that I must actually live what I wish to accomplish as a pianist.