Standard Tuning

[kclee6337]

Reason why I am asking is because I have had tuners come in and ask do I want 440 or 443? even tho there is a very slight difference almost unnoticeable I didn't really care at all.

However, recently I have been watching some netflix documentaries about 2012 and some others as well that mention standard tuning being 432 something about being resonant with the earth 8hz pulse etc. make you in a better mood etc. improve your health yada yada yada.

SO, what is your opinion on the matter?

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By no means to I agree or disagree with the ideas and theories in this video, just presenting it.

[classical72]

No one right answer IMO...
Baroque pitch tends to be accepted at 415 and modern concert pitch at 440 - about a semitone difference.
There used to be something called continental pitch (444) which some European Orchestras favoured in the 60s.  A brighter sound yes but also perhaps a progression of the 415 moving slowly up.  As far as I'm aware all the major orchestras (not authentic ones though) now use 440
Some older pianos struggle to stay in tune at 440 but are entirely happy left in the 430s.
Playing with string instruments means they can adjust (although many aren't that keen on moving more than a few Hz.)  Wind players are less likely to be able to compensate particularly as it distorts the entire scale if you pull out /push in too much (although 440 to 443 isn't of that consequence)
Then again, each of your 3 strings (in the upper register or 4 if you are aliquot) should be minimally different - exact tuning across all 3 makes for a flat (as in sound not pitch) quality.

When the temperature rises a wind instrument will go up and needs conscious effort to keep down. For string instruments (Vln etc) the effect is less and for the modern piano even less again.  My harpsichord, left to its own devices will go down about 1/4 tone in winter compared to summer.

Lastly, many of us find equal temperament somewhat limiting - but hey, this is a piano forum so I won't open that can of worms!

[justharmony]

Oh, please DO open that can of worms!  Would glad go there with you.  Not a fan of ET, myself.  Kind of a geek about talking about it, and it's not like it tends to come up often in casual conversation! lol.

But to answer the original question - I think standard pitch makes sense for reasons of physics and the way instruments are built (though 440 vs. 443 I've never heard of before), and for right now, that is a=440, and instruments are built and designed for that (in theory, anyhow), as noted in the last post.

I will say, though, if you're a string player, you can't adjust as much as one might think.  Sure A=440, no problem, and as far as general pitch LEVEL is concerned, there is wiggle room.  But tuning issues between strings and pianos are much greater than the pitch level.  Stringed instruments tune in perfect fifths, which, when they play with a piano tuned in ET can be a terribly frustrating and confounding experience - especially when one does not understand the difference between Equal temperament which uses non perfect fifths vs. the perfect fifths the string player typically uses and why in the world can't they tune to the piano suddenly??? lol.  See?  There's that can of worms again. 

Can't avoid it and yet so many of us go for years going on forever without ever realizing it.  I did.  Had no clue about tuning, and I played with many-a-confounded string player.

Lightbulbs once I finally started to get it.  Lightbulbs and the wonderful light that came with them. 

JH

[classical72]

Here come the worms....
I tune my cello with slightly narrow fifths for most playing.  For Solo suites I'm more inclined to tune perfect fifths from the home key (if that corresponds to an open string) but even that is a compromise to tune the double / triple stopping - the strings themselves aren't always true as you stop fifths.
I generally tune the harpsichord to narrow fifths (listening for the beat to be once per second to judge its narrowness)  Occasionally I'll tune perfect fifths away from the home key and wonder at the sound - possibly something similar to modal intonation.  Listen to some renaissance (or earlier) and think about the tuning they are using.
So C# is higher than D flat etc.  In a major key the 3rd and leading note are higher than standard ET tuning, the minor third lower etc etc.  The faster the tempo the greater the difference has to be for the ear to "get it".
As an exercise try moving up a tone in 16 equal steps, voice or instrument.
Can well and truly open - and I haven't even touched on why (if) pianos sound brighter in sharp keys than flat keys - over to the world to pick up all the worms.

[silverwoodpianos]

Bosendorfer recommends all of their piano models to be tuned to A443. Many European orchestras use this frequency.

[justharmony]

Appreciate your opening the "can of worms" Classical72.  Makes for good discussion, I think.  I'm with you about tuning the harpsichord in Just intonation and marveling at the beauty of that (in a particular key of course - doesn't work for really playing much of anything).  There is nothing like a true/just C major chord in the quiet of the middle of the night.  Ahhhh.

I think you mis-stated yourself, though, regarding some tuning stuff... The third is very high in equal temperament, so much so that it is difficult for many to perceive a closer-to-true third as in tune.  But what a beautiful sound when you get used to it!  And a C# is actually LOWER than a Db...  Were you thinking one thing and typing another? 

Anyhow.  I appreciate the topic. Didn't realize you were a string player or a fellow harpsichordist.  Love it. 

I'm interested in your opinion as to why pianos sound "brighter" in sharp keys, and what you mean by that, exactly?

BTW - do you tune your piano with ET?

JH

[hfmadopter]

Here come the worms....
I tune my cello with slightly narrow fifths for most playing.  For Solo suites I'm more inclined to tune perfect fifths from the home key (if that corresponds to an open string) but even that is a compromise to tune the double / triple stopping - the strings themselves aren't always true as you stop fifths.
I generally tune the harpsichord to narrow fifths (listening for the beat to be once per second to judge its narrowness)  Occasionally I'll tune perfect fifths away from the home key and wonder at the sound - possibly something similar to modal intonation.  Listen to some renaissance (or earlier) and think about the tuning they are using.
So C# is higher than D flat etc.  In a major key the 3rd and leading note are higher than standard ET tuning, the minor third lower etc etc.  The faster the tempo the greater the difference has to be for the ear to "get it".
As an exercise try moving up a tone in 16 equal steps, voice or instrument.
Can well and truly open - and I haven't even touched on why (if) pianos sound brighter in sharp keys than flat keys - over to the world to pick up all the worms.

In my book  I bought on servicing, tuning and rebuilding it brings up the topic of the slightly brighter tuning of the high treble. It stood to reason then, to me, that the bass was tuned a few seconds low. I did that on my own piano but ended up bringing the bass up the rest of the way ( it had been grossly out of tune from non use for several years so didn't want to bring it all up at once anyway). I have my old 1890's piano tuned at A440 now, it took about 4 tunings to get there and hold the tuning. I do need the double bass strings replaced though, have a rust issue there and a couple thumpy sounding notes. The tripples sound pretty good and the singles were replaced already.