Piano for Recording Studio

[luciano1]

Hello,

I intend to purchase a piano for my recording studio. I have been taking a look to different brands and pianos for the last months, but still is a difficult choice… I am looking for a versatile piano that can fix with different musical styles… my budget is around 30.000 euros.
The room where the piano will be placed is a 100 square meter and 5,50 meter high (around 550m3).
I have seen a Steiway a188 (year 1890±), a Bechstein of 2,65m from 1890, a modern Yamaha C7, Steinway B from 1911…
I know that at the end i have to take the decision by myself, but as i am not an expert, i would like to hear the point of view of the people.
The piano would be played by many people, different styles, and always should be in perfect condition….

Thanks a lot in advanced.

[49410enrique]

hmm if you shop around and can find a 'bargain' on a pristinely maintained shigeru i would strongly consider it. absolute favorite piano i have ever touched. amazing. also has enough 'brightness' of an asian instrument to make it a good choice for pop and rock (i.e. the yamaha market) but incredible control, tone, and color for more 'artistic' instrumental music as well.

https://www.shigerukawai.com/

from your choices, though i am not a big fan of them personally, the Yamaha (if it comes from their hamamazu japan plant not the jakarta indonesia one) would probably be the most versatile and durable. you are buying this i presume as a 'business' owner not an 'artist' so certain sensibilities must be balanced with the ROI (return on investment) and upkeep and maintenance costs. the yamaha will probably be the 'cheapest' to operate in the long run and probably satisfy the majority of your artists the most.

[luciano1]

Thanks a lot for your reply Enrique!

What do you think about the size of the room (550m3)? Should i go for a grand piano? A smallest one would be ok?
Purchasing the piano will be a big effort for me, so i really want to make the best decision...

I will keep in mind about the Kawai and the japanese Yamaha.

thanks again,

Luciano

[49410enrique]

i can't really speak to the acoustics of the room relative to the size etc. generally you'll get the best tonal qualities out of a grand and if it is in the (at the very least generally) 175 cm or longer, preferrably 225cm  or so (semi concert grand ,  large parlor grand etc.).

if you go the smaller route the only small grand i can say is very nice in the small estonia grand that is about 167 cm, generally it is considered amonst the finest of the small grands but for recording puproses if you limited on size the a very good 'professional' full size upright is probably the way to go.

you might have to see what is available for the EU market, but i would take a look and listen to the equivalent of the YUS5 or soemthing similar. again i'm not a fan of uprights but if you are limited on space the best upright will probably give you the better sound vs a compromise in length on a grand.

i would still strongly encourage you to try to see if a 200cm or so grand from yamaha or shigeru will work (if shigeru is not an option kawai is fine but do try to get it from the RX line, those are really nice and share some things w the shigerus)

[luciano1]

Thanks a lot for your suggestions Enrique.

For sure that i would go for a piano between 175 and 225 more or less, but i have many doubt about brands. I think that having a good Steinway will bring me more clients than having a superb Kawai or Yamaha, but at the same time i need a piano that doesn't give me much maintenance costs... As i said before, i need a piano that works properly for any kind of musical style, something versatile. My budget will be around 30.000 euros, so i will keep in mind about the Kawai that you recommend me and check how they sound in my recording room. Will see if i can find any of those around here...

Thanks a lot again.

[oxy60]

I would be a bit more careful about making recommendations. We all know that selling classical piano recordings is very difficult. Pop groups, electronic, new age etc., is a more realistic expectation for the destination of a recording studio. Therefore a big grand may just get in the way. It also must be maintained. Even in a jazz night club with big names appearing that grand was tuned once a week.

Why not wait and see who wants to record? Chances are you might find yourself going to the "chosen" grand in its location and doing a "remote" in the dedicated hall. Pianists who want to record classical are very fussy about the piano and may not like your choice.

30,000 euros is a lot to spend!

[luciano1]

Thanks oxy60!

As i said i need a versatile piano, not only for classical, but for jazz, blues, pop and rock... Having a piano in my facility may be a good point for bands to choose to record in my studio. At least is how i see things...
probably my budget is not big enough for classical piano players expectations, that´s why i need to choose something that can work for different styles and make the studio more attractive.

Thanks for your answer, I will keep in mind your point of view.

[justharmony]

This is a really tough one, as everyone is going to have their preference, and they are definitely not all going to match.  While you may have a point about brand appeal to some degree, anyone who is that concerned about brand will come and play your instrument to see if it "agrees" with them, I'd think.  In that case, it's way more important to put your money into meticulously maintaining the instrument rather than shell out big money just for a brand name.  And keep in mind that brand names might just as easily turn someone away, too.   Steinway's a sticky one for me.  Not a personal favorite of mine, I must admit. 

I'd look for a piano that has an almost non-distinct sound, if that makes sense.  Not brashly bright, not overly mellow, etc.  I think of what Chopin used to say about the pianos he owned - a Pleyel cottage upright and an Erard grand.  He preferred the Pleyel, as it offered more distinct sound, more personal and responsive touch. But when he needed "ready-made" sound, even if less personal or interesting, he'd go to the Erard.  That's the sort of thing I'd think you'd want in a recording studio.

OF course, I say all this not having the first clue about the acoustics of a recording studio, or the difficult task of actually getting a good recording of a piano.  What do others in the industry say?  What do THEY have in THEIR studios? 

Good luck.

JH

[john90]

Yes, you have to make the decision. Perhaps the brand has to be one that most musicians are familiar with, and one that most people will not turn their nose up at.

Steinway D, or a Steinway S, used, but don't over pay. Go to an auction or similar. They both sound "as good as Steinways", most tuners have seen them before, almost all performers will have played one similar. Pay up to 10K pounds for the S, 20K for the D. The S is only 250kg, lighter than many older uprights, it has a proper grand piano feel, is responsive, and easy to shift when not needed.

I would avoid a Kawi, or Shigeru. You will pay good money, perhaps the same, for a nice one, and yet people will think you are too cheap to buy a Steinway.

If it was my studio, it would be a small Steinway S, 250kg, or a big Bechstein, 7' that had been renovated in the last 10 years, pay no more than 5000. final thought, perhaps the best choice would be to rent a near new Yamaha grand from a local piano shop. The shop will want the prestige of their piano in your studio, and will be able to provide the quality servicing you really must have. Keep your money in your pocket, and get fantastic service.

[luciano1]

Thanks for the answers guys!

First of all, taking a look to the pianos that other recording studios have, most of them go for Steinway and Yamaha, that´s a fact. So guess that means something... But in my situation, i have to make some research and check if those are the best options or if there is any other interesting choice. I have been taking a look to a nice Bechstein from 1881, 2,65m and restored just few years ago, and seems it has a fair price... but i am not really sure if it´s as versatile as i need (good enough for jazz, blues, pop?).
Another option could be renting the piano as you said, but as investment and marketing for the studio I don't think it´s the best choice, but for sure that it´s less risky...

Thanks a lot for your help again!
 

[oxy60]

Thanks oxy60!

As i said i need a versatile piano, not only for classical, but for jazz, blues, pop and rock... Having a piano in my facility may be a good point for bands to choose to record in my studio. At least is how i see things...
probably my budget is not big enough for classical piano players expectations, that´s why i need to choose something that can work for different styles and make the studio more attractive.

Thanks for your answer, I will keep in mind your point of view.

One thing further, I seldom see acoustic pianos in clubs. We're in music venues all over the world. The problem is that they can't be miked up to the level of surrounding electronic instruments.

If your heart is set on a traditional acoustic piano I would go for a spinet or console type. I had a Baldwin Acrosonic offered to me for free. It can be tuned dark or bright, or "honky-tonk." You could put it in a glass box and mike it separately.

I have 300 watts for my keyboard and that will balance with an acoustic drum kit played with sticks in a music room. What you see on TV of a big grand playing with a band is really a Roland keyboard slipped into a grand shell for the looks (and a prop for the singer).

[luciano1]

Hi Oxi,

I see your point and i understand. But what i own is a recording studio, not a pub or a club. I am just looking for an acoustic piano for my recording studio (something not that strange in my country). I think i am not inventing the gun powder...

[willvenables]

The Yamaha C7 is the youngest instrument, one of the most recorded grand pianos in the World and is of course a semi-concert grand with the physical advantage of having a massive soundboard area, long strings and mechanically - long keys with excellent leverage for a most responsive and articulate touch. With very skilled prep, the regulating and voicing of this piano will yeild the best results.

For studio use, a deeper touch (key dip) and increase blow (resting hammer distance from string) will give the most control to the pianist in mechanical terms - coupled with hammer shaping for clean string contact and control of upper partials, deep shoulder voicing for bloom - warmth and sustain, and careful sugar coating voicing on the side of the hammer away from you near the edge of the strike point, to get an established general tone that is neutral with tone contrast relative to expression (PPP = mellow, FFF = bright). This gives the pianist control over the piano's tone.

It is really unfortunate that so many Yamaha pianos are in circulation or established in venues without having been prepared well or maintained properly and resulting therefore in a poor representation of how good these pianos really are.

Really, you need to get a decent piano technician to appraise the pianos for you. If you are buying from a showroom, ask if they can send a technician on delivery to set the piano up in your studio (voicing, regulating etc.)

[richard black]

Unless it's in poor condition, the Steinway B. Apart from anything else, as a business proposition it makes sense - you can charge extra $ just for having a Steinway in there. The Steinway A won't sound quite as satisfying (the strings in a A-sized piano are just a little too short, really) and the Bechstein, while almost certainly a superb instrument (again, assuming its condition is OK), is probably a bit big for the room. If the Yamaha C7 is typical of its breed it's as bland as can be, and likely to need at least as much maintenance as any of the others.