Hi, would love some help on picking first (digital) piano

[ranniks]

Hello all,

- Never owned a piano before
- Don't have much money, but willing to spend betweeen 1000-3000 euros (about 5000-6000 dollars I think)
- I'l take piano lessons not right away, but later after getting used to my piano
- I would love to be able to play bach, chopin and/or mozart
- I would love to be able to play piano versions of songs/anime openings
- My love for the piano began with classical music I would say. Then I listened to chopin and it really hit.
- The love also comes from piano versions of other songs.
- Will be paying piano off in 36 months, so about 50 euros each month.

I have my eyes on this piano: Kawai CN43. But I've heard the CA version is way more realistic to a real piano? If you have a suggestion for a better/similar piano that you think fits my demands, please say so!

I want to switch to a real piano when I'm 25-30 orso. So after I've finished school (I'm 20 now) and all. I want to easily be able to switch to a real piano, so I'm wondering if the Kawai is good enough for that.

Let's say I learn how to play on the Kawai, will I be able to play on a real piano as well? Obvious tone difference I understand, but would it be THAT different to master a real piano after a lot of years with a digital one?

Does the Kawai CN43 give a good immitation of a real piano? Hitting the keys and all? And the sounds are adjustable to replicate a real piano?

I don't want to upset my neighboors, so does the headphone option on the Kawai CN43 work really well? Like are the sounds in tune and all?

I understand that I don't need to tune the strings of the piano since it doesn't have any, hence being digital piano. But do I need to look out for something else? Like some maintenance work every now and then? What to do if keys are broken/jammed? Any info would be welcome.

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked a million times (or more), but this is a delicate manner to me. I'll read the stickies after posting this, but I would love and really appreciate personal comments.

Please help!

[hfmadopter]

Hello all,

- Never owned a piano before
- Don't have much money, but willing to spend betweeen 1000-3000 euros (about 5000-6000 dollars I think)
- I'l take piano lessons not right away, but later after getting used to my piano
- I would love to be able to play bach, chopin and/or mozart
- I would love to be able to play piano versions of songs/anime openings
- My love for the piano began with classical music I would say. Then I listened to chopin and it really hit.
- The love also comes from piano versions of other songs.
- Will be paying piano off in 36 months, so about 50 euros each month.

I have my eyes on this piano: Kawai CN43. But I've heard the CA version is way more realistic to a real piano? If you have a suggestion for a better/similar piano that you think fits my demands, please say so!

Please help!

If you want to pay for a wooden cabinet then yes the CN 43 is the top choice from Kawai. I personally think you will do just about as well in terms of piano sound in the CN 33. And again personally , since I own a grand piano already i'd prefer just the professional grade keyboard with the same sounds as the CN series pianos and make it portable. So the MP6 is the piano to own in that case and score big time savings over buying that wooden cabinet.

The action on all the upper level new Kawais has real action mechanisms inside the board so the feel is about as close as you can get to a an acoustic grand piano and many also offer weight control of the keys on board. So you can adjust the tension or pressure required to depress the keys. i'd keep that moderate so the transition to an acoustic piano isn't shocking..

The only real negative to a digital piano in this class is depreciation, digital anything does not hold value for very long. Of course acoustics take more up keep but they have value and a well kept grand piano in particular has fine touch control and volume up the ying yang and also holds value very well.. But digitals today are better than they ever were and a good choice for what you want to do with the head phones and all.

As to head phones, just buy a good quality set, the sound will be fine.

[ranniks]

If you want to pay for a wooden cabinet then yes the CN 43 is the top choice from Kawai. I personally think you will do just about as well in terms of piano sound in the CN 33. And again personally , since I own a grand piano already i'd prefer just the professional grade keyboard with the same sounds as the CN series pianos and make it portable. So the MP6 is the piano to own in that case and score big time savings over buying that wooden cabinet.

The action on all the upper level new Kawais has real action mechanisms inside the board so the feel is about as close as you can get to a an acoustic grand piano and many also offer weight control of the keys on board. So you can adjust the tension or pressure required to depress the keys. i'd keep that moderate so the transition to an acoustic piano isn't shocking..

The only real negative to a digital piano in this class is depreciation, digital anything does not hold value for very long. Of course acoustics take more up keep but they have value and a well kept grand piano in particular has fine touch control and volume up the ying yang and also holds value very well.. But digitals today are better than they ever were and a good choice for what you want to do with the head phones and all.

As to head phones, just buy a good quality set, the sound will be fine.

Thank you so much! So you're saying the cn 33 and cn 43 are identical except that the cn 43 is made of wood?

Thing is, they're both around 50 euros a month, so I'd be paying 36x47.5 a month for the cn 33 and 36x53.75 for the cn 43. Wouldn't the cn 43 be a better choice then since I'm going to pay more in the end anyways?

And yeah....Who knows what will happen in the comming 36 monts with technology. Thing is, I'd love to buy a real piano, but I lack the money. I could in theory get a real piano for the same amount (about 50-60 euros a month), but with all the tuning costes and the fact it will probably will be a low-end real piano, not sure if it's a good idea. Can't really finance the tuning costes for a low-end one. Well not sure at all.

I'd just love to play Chopin at home, or Mozart or BACH! Yes Bach definitely! I would also love to play one direction on my digital piano.

I just don't want to buy something that won't come close to a real piano forcing my switch to a real piano to be hard. You said the cn series is very good in that term.

Do you also think, keeping my interests in mind, that the cn 43 would be the best choice? The mp6 is not available in my area=/ and I would love one to just stand in my room.

For example: I would learn how to play chopin's rain drops in 6-24 months. Would I be able to play it on a real piano as well (with obvious small differences)? Or would the change be too drastic?

Thanks for helping me btw! Really much appreciate it!

[hfmadopter]

Thank you so much! So you're saying the cn 33 and cn 43 are identical except that the cn 43 is made of wood?

Thing is, they're both around 50 euros a month, so I'd be paying 36x47.5 a month for the cn 33 and 36x53.75 for the cn 43. Wouldn't the cn 43 be a better choice then since I'm going to pay more in the end anyways?

They both have a wood cabinet. I believe if you look up the specs the 33 has a few less features like other instrument options. However the instrument you are after is piano, both have a convincing Concert Grand and Mellow Grand piano sound. In terms of monthly payments not a lot of difference but maybe you can include headset, bench etc with the 33 under the same payment envelope of the 43 ( not sure of this just a thought towards more bang for the buck) and if not, maybe that leaves room for the purchase of other items in general..

But to answer your question directly, Kawai considers the 43 to be their flagship of the CN series. My question is more along the lines of do you need the added features when apparently the 33 has the same keyboard response, similar construction and grand piano sounds samples ? If you just plain love the 43 by all means go buy it if it's affordable to you ! I suspect either will serve you well but do investigate further for the exact features you want in a digital piano and make sure you get those features ( for instance I would want jacks available to hook to PA or house stereo systems).

Kawai right now to me makes digitals with the most convincing piano and organ sounds in the industry at just about any price point. So they compete in that regard with even more expensive units, IMO. The key boards with their action system are second to none, again IMO. And this is in both CN series and MP series digitals.

[pianoplunker]

Hello all,

- Never owned a piano before
- Don't have much money, but willing to spend betweeen 1000-3000 euros (about 5000-6000 dollars I think)
- I'l take piano lessons not right away, but later after getting used to my piano
- I would love to be able to play bach, chopin and/or mozart
- I would love to be able to play piano versions of songs/anime openings
- My love for the piano began with classical music I would say. Then I listened to chopin and it really hit.
- The love also comes from piano versions of other songs.
- Will be paying piano off in 36 months, so about 50 euros each month.

I have my eyes on this piano: Kawai CN43. But I've heard the CA version is way more realistic to a real piano? If you have a suggestion for a better/similar piano that you think fits my demands, please say so!

I want to switch to a real piano when I'm 25-30 orso. So after I've finished school (I'm 20 now) and all. I want to easily be able to switch to a real piano, so I'm wondering if the Kawai is good enough for that.

Let's say I learn how to play on the Kawai, will I be able to play on a real piano as well? Obvious tone difference I understand, but would it be THAT different to master a real piano after a lot of years with a digital one?

Does the Kawai CN43 give a good immitation of a real piano? Hitting the keys and all? And the sounds are adjustable to replicate a real piano?

I don't want to upset my neighboors, so does the headphone option on the Kawai CN43 work really well? Like are the sounds in tune and all?

I understand that I don't need to tune the strings of the piano since it doesn't have any, hence being digital piano. But do I need to look out for something else? Like some maintenance work every now and then? What to do if keys are broken/jammed? Any info would be welcome.

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked a million times (or more), but this is a delicate manner to me. I'll read the stickies after posting this, but I would love and really appreciate personal comments.

Please help!

I have always bought stage keyboards since I play in bands often but if I were to buy one to be a living-room keyboard I would also look at the CN43. You get three pedals and 88 keys which is important for you and the music you want to play. The touch is something you'll have to discern. Even "real " pianos have a wide range of touch from very heavy and bouncy to light and airy. You mention maintenance which is very smart to think about. This is the tricky part but important. Where would you have to take your keyboard if it were to have issues?  Is your local audio-technician qualified and certified to make repairs and purchase components from the manufacturer ?  No tuning needed but what if one of the knobs or sliders stops working correctly ? Imagine losing all control of volume because the potentiometer  on the controlling circuit board quits working. Imagine all of a sudden your volume or other controlled effect randomly gets louder and softer. OR something simple like one of the built-in speakers blows up and does not work right. That is the kind of thing that you would have to maintain. I would put that into the equation - can I fix it or can I take it down the street to be fixed or do I have to ship my keyboard someplace to get fixed.

[hfmadopter]

I have always bought stage keyboards since I play in bands often but if I were to buy one to be a living-room keyboard I would also look at the CN43. You get three pedals and 88 keys which is important for you and the music you want to play. The touch is something you'll have to discern. Even "real " pianos have a wide range of touch from very heavy and bouncy to light and airy. You mention maintenance which is very smart to think about. This is the tricky part but important. Where would you have to take your keyboard if it were to have issues?  Is your local audio-technician qualified and certified to make repairs and purchase components from the manufacturer ?  No tuning needed but what if one of the knobs or sliders stops working correctly ? Imagine losing all control of volume because the potentiometer  on the controlling circuit board quits working. Imagine all of a sudden your volume or other controlled effect randomly gets louder and softer. OR something simple like one of the built-in speakers blows up and does not work right. That is the kind of thing that you would have to maintain. I would put that into the equation - can I fix it or can I take it down the street to be fixed or do I have to ship my keyboard someplace to get fixed.

Valid points all of them ! In this regard it could be that Yamaha has the wider repair market available.

[ranniks]

They both have a wood cabinet. I believe if you look up the specs the 33 has a few less features like other instrument options. However the instrument you are after is piano, both have a convincing Concert Grand and Mellow Grand piano sound. In terms of monthly payments not a lot of difference but maybe you can include headset, bench etc with the 33 under the same payment envelope of the 43 ( not sure of this just a thought towards more bang for the buck) and if not, maybe that leaves room for the purchase of other items in general..

But to answer your question directly, Kawai considers the 43 to be their flagship of the CN series. My question is more along the lines of do you need the added features when apparently the 33 has the same keyboard response, similar construction and grand piano sounds samples ? If you just plain love the 43 by all means go buy it if it's affordable to you ! I suspect either will serve you well but do investigate further for the exact features you want in a digital piano and make sure you get those features ( for instance I would want jacks available to hook to PA or house stereo systems).

Kawai right now to me makes digitals with the most convincing piano and organ sounds in the industry at just about any price point. So they compete in that regard with even more expensive units, IMO. The key boards with their action system are second to none, again IMO. And this is in both CN series and MP series digitals.

Thx so much! I'm going to take that into consideration!

I have always bought stage keyboards since I play in bands often but if I were to buy one to be a living-room keyboard I would also look at the CN43. You get three pedals and 88 keys which is important for you and the music you want to play. The touch is something you'll have to discern. Even "real " pianos have a wide range of touch from very heavy and bouncy to light and airy. You mention maintenance which is very smart to think about. This is the tricky part but important. Where would you have to take your keyboard if it were to have issues?  Is your local audio-technician qualified and certified to make repairs and purchase components from the manufacturer ?  No tuning needed but what if one of the knobs or sliders stops working correctly ? Imagine losing all control of volume because the potentiometer  on the controlling circuit board quits working. Imagine all of a sudden your volume or other controlled effect randomly gets louder and softer. OR something simple like one of the built-in speakers blows up and does not work right. That is the kind of thing that you would have to maintain. I would put that into the equation - can I fix it or can I take it down the street to be fixed or do I have to ship my keyboard someplace to get fixed.

I'm definitely going to look into the maintenance part, thx!

[ranniks]

Guys, are these real pianos?

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/500

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/347

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/529

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/464

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/16

Please, please take a look at each link. If these are real pianos, they are at the range price I could buy, but I'm not sure if these are decent quality pianos. E.G; do they beat the Kawai CN43? I also have to take into consideration that I have a neighbor and real pianos don't have a headset I think.

Those are probably low end pianos, right?

I'm leaning towards the CN43 though.

Is it also possible to get a piano for free? I've heard rumours that one could visit churches and ask if they want to get rid of theirs? If you could spare the time to explain that to me, I would very much appreciate it.

[ranniks]

I'm in for another dilemma=/.

So I was asking this friend if he knows somewhere where I could possibly get a free piano (hey, I can entertain the thought right?). Then he suggested this store where they sold keyboards but also other types of (real) pianos. I told him I'm going to loan a real piano but pay it off each month until it's mine.

He became sort of pessimistic then telling me "what if you don't like it anymore after 4 months?". "Waste of money". He also told me I should get a keyboard because you always start small or something. When I told him I wanted to play chopin/bach/mozart/vivaldi he said those people also probably began on lower end pianos "they started small". I told him the cn 43 piano isn't really considered a real piano and the top ends are 5000+ euros. He said "you don't buy an expensive piano first, you buy a crap thing first just like you start with a crap guitar". He plays the guitar apparently btw.

I'm really passionate though.

Thing is..I could return the piano any time I wanted without having to pay extras. To this argument my friend said 'but you could invest in a keyboard for that money'.

What to do? Is he right?

Personally I don't think so, but maybe I''m being illogical?

[pianoplunker]

I'm in for another dilemma=/.

So I was asking this friend if he knows somewhere where I could possibly get a free piano (hey, I can entertain the thought right?). Then he suggested this store where they sold keyboards but also other types of (real) pianos. I told him I'm going to loan a real piano but pay it off each month until it's mine.

He became sort of pessimistic then telling me "what if you don't like it anymore after 4 months?". "Waste of money". He also told me I should get a keyboard because you always start small or something. When I told him I wanted to play chopin/bach/mozart/vivaldi he said those people also probably began on lower end pianos "they started small". I told him the cn 43 piano isn't really considered a real piano and the top ends are 5000+ euros. He said "you don't buy an expensive piano first, you buy a crap thing first just like you start with a crap guitar".

I'm really passionate though.

What to do? Is he right?

The problem with  "crap" instruments is that the things that make it crap might prevent you from playing and enjoying it and that might make you quit .  Real pianos have quite a wide range of price, maybe you could try renting one to start with. 

[hfmadopter]

I'm in for another dilemma=/.

So I was asking this friend if he knows somewhere where I could possibly get a free piano (hey, I can entertain the thought right?). Then he suggested this store where they sold keyboards but also other types of (real) pianos. I told him I'm going to loan a real piano but pay it off each month until it's mine.

He became sort of pessimistic then telling me "what if you don't like it anymore after 4 months?". "Waste of money". He also told me I should get a keyboard because you always start small or something. When I told him I wanted to play chopin/bach/mozart/vivaldi he said those people also probably began on lower end pianos "they started small". I told him the cn 43 piano isn't really considered a real piano and the top ends are 5000+ euros. He said "you don't buy an expensive piano first, you buy a crap thing first just like you start with a crap guitar". He plays the guitar apparently btw.

You've got yourself into quite a mess of confusion here. You need to determine if you want acoustic or digital and go from there. I have to say that I am not an advocate of crap but then again, if you have absolutely no piano now, just about any piano is better than none. But beware with crap comes headaches. With a crap guitar you have what 6 strings to concern yourself witrh and some laminated wood. With a piano you have 220 strings and literally thousands of individual parts subject to warpage, wear, going out of tune etc... Nope get something decent.
David

[ranniks]

Thx!

My sister has a keyboard (very cheap one with 28 ish keys, which a few miss because they were broken off (don't ask why)). Anyways, I tried playing on it. And learned via youtube how to do a few things.

I can somehow do twinkle twinkle little star now and vader jacob as well. I'm going to practise those today as well. Really fun!

Also gonna try to do twinkle twinkle little star with both hands; left hand doing cc and right hand too, so I can get them in sync. It's hard though!

So I think I'm just gonna get the cn43. It's on a special offer right now; a free bench and headphones with.

[hfmadopter]

Thx!

My sister has a keyboard (very cheap one with 28 ash keys, which a few miss because they were broken off (don't ask why)). Anyways, I tried playing on it. And learned via youtube how to do a few things.

I can somehow do twinkle twinkle little star now and vader jacob as well. I'm going to practise those today as well. Really fun!

Also gonna try to do twinkle twinkle little star with both hands; left hand doing cc and right hand too, so I can get them in sync. It's hard though!

So I think I'm just gonna get the cn43. It's on a special offer right now; a free bench and headphones with.

Ok done deal, you made a decision now run with it and don't look back. Later in your life you will know for sure if you still want to go with an acoustic, meanwhile you have a really good start with the Kawai. You will find that piano to be very much like a real piano to play, especially compared to what you are playing now. That CN is professional grade.

The head phones may be key. I don't know what they are giving you as part of the special but it is possible you will need to upgrade at some point. Sometimes specials don't come with the best added on components. Just a heads up, it may not be the case at all from this dealer though.
David

[ranniks]

Ok done deal, you made a decision now run with it and don't look back. Later in your life you will know for sure if you still want to go with an acoustic, meanwhile you have a really good start with the Kawai. You will find that piano to be very much like a real piano to play, especially compared to what you are playing now. That CN is professional grade.

The head phones may be key. I don't know what they are giving you as part of the special but it is possible you will need to upgrade at some point. Sometimes specials don't come with the best added on components. Just a heads up, it may not be the case at all from this dealer though.
David

Thanks so much for all your help!

I'm definitely gonna buy the cn 43.

Just a small question though: In a video about a real piano I saw that the harder you hit the keys, the louder the sound. Does a digital piano have a simillar effect?

[lhorwinkle]

In a video about a real piano I saw that the harder you hit the keys, the louder the sound. Does a digital piano have a similar effect?

Yes, digital pianos behave this way.

But I'm concerned about one thing. If you didn't already know that, then I'm guessing that you've not yet tried out any pianos. If so, then I would definitely NOT pick the CN43 or ANY OTHER piano. You cannot possibly know which piano you'll like until you've first tried it out!

[ranniks]

Yes, digital pianos behave this way.

But I'm concerned about one thing. If you didn't already know that, then I'm guessing that you've not yet tried out any pianos. If so, then I would definitely NOT pick the CN43 or ANY OTHER piano. You cannot possibly know which piano you'll like until you've first tried it out!

That's because I've never owned a piano before.

And thx btw!

[hfmadopter]

Thanks so much for all your help!

I'm definitely gonna buy the cn 43.

Just a small question though: In a video about a real piano I saw that the harder you hit the keys, the louder the sound. Does a digital piano have a similar effect?

Digital pianos in the class you are looking in are sensitive to touch and volume as you hit the keys harder or softer yes. However if to get the full resonance of all the strings in a real grand piano you need a really good sound system to approach that resonance and still not fully attain the exact thing. The argument could also be made in the same way towards shorter stringed grand or uprights as well. Digital produces a cleaner sound if you like, and digital manufacturers have worked hard to deliver a true string sound. In that regard, I feel at your price point Kawai is the winner and professional grade at that. You have to spend a lot more from other brands to do as well never mind exceed the grand piano sound Kawai is putting out in digitals right now.You still are dealing basically with an electronic stereo system though. Now I'm just speaking of sound here nothing else, obviously even higher end digitals have to offer something more but for you we are concerned about pianos and piano sound.

Now, all that said , the next poster has a valid point. You really should try a few out and see if they fit your needs and feel the way you think it should feel. I know your story, you have little experience but you could try a certain brand or model of a brand and not like it. Maybe Yamaha or Nord or etc. brand is better suited to you.

That's digital. I have to say about acoustic in your price range, you aren't looking at much except on an easy payment plan perhaps. But what about those neighbors if I remember correctly you had concerns with if you get too loud ?

And just forget the old junk uprights that people basically give away, because you can dump a fortune into those worn out clunkers and never get a return on your money. I'm a half baked technician on my own piano ( restringing, regulating, tuning some voicing etc) and I wouldn't go there myself. If you get a good quality used acoustic you will get some if not all your money back later on when you want to upgrade, though it will take maintaining, regular tuning etc. That was a concern for you as well.

Your situation I get the feeling is calling for a digital for now at least. You could spend a grand ( 1000 dollars ) in US dollars to get one with good action and sound though vs the CN43.. I've been down this road with you already and you come back to that CN43. If you love it so be it but do try it out as the other poster suggested !

So a quick rehash. Good Acoustic pianos in a household situation resonate in a way digitals do not. But yes digitals have touch sensitivity these days that is limited by the sound system it is fed through. Great sound system great sound, lousy sound system lousy sound. the CN 43 has a decent sound system in it already ( I'm thinking 100watts, many only have 35 ), not bad through the stock speakers.. best of worlds, go try it out.
David

[ranniks]

Digital pianos in the class you are looking in are sensitive to touch and volume as you hit the keys harder or softer yes. However if to get the full resonance of all the strings in a real grand piano you need a really good sound system to approach that resonance and still not fully attain the exact thing. The argument could also be made in the same way towards shorter stringed grand or uprights as well. Digital produces a cleaner sound if you like, and digital manufacturers have worked hard to deliver a true string sound. In that regard, I feel at your price point Kawai is the winner and professional grade at that. You have to spend a lot more from other brands to do as well never mind exceed the grand piano sound Kawai is putting out in digitals right now.You still are dealing basically with an electronic stereo system though. Now I'm just speaking of sound here nothing else, obviously even higher end digitals have to offer something more but for you we are concerned about pianos and piano sound.

Now, all that said , the next poster has a valid point. You really should try a few out and see if they fit your needs and feel the way you think it should feel. I know your story, you have little experience but you could try a certain brand or model of a brand and not like it. Maybe Yamaha or Nord or etc. brand is better suited to you.

That's digital. I have to say about acoustic in your price range, you aren't looking at much except on an easy payment plan perhaps. But what about those neighbors if I remember correctly you had concerns with if you get too loud ?

And just forget the old junk uprights that people basically give away, because you can dump a fortune into those worn out clunkers and never get a return on your money. I'm a half baked technician on my own piano ( restringing, regulating, tuning some voicing etc) and I wouldn't go there myself. If you get a good quality used acoustic you will get some if not all your money back later on when you want to upgrade, though it will take maintaining, regular tuning etc. That was a concern for you as well.

Your situation I get the feeling is calling for a digital for now at least. You could spend a grand ( 1000 dollars ) in US dollars to get one with good action and sound though vs the CN43.. I've been down this road with you already and you come back to that CN43. If you love it so be it but do try it out as the other poster suggested !

So a quick rehash. Good Acoustic pianos in a household situation resonate in a way digitals do not. But yes digitals have touch sensitivity these days that is limited by the sound system it is fed through. Great sound system great sound, lousy sound system lousy sound. the CN 43 has a decent sound system in it already ( I'm thinking 100watts, many only have 35 ), not bad through the stock speakers.. best of worlds, go try it out.
David

Thanks David!

I could go to the store and test some pianos out. But the thing is, I can only play twinklle twinkle little star with only 1 hand on the board (either left or right) and vader jacob, so I'm not quite sure how you expect me to get a feel for those pianos? I can't play with both hands on the keys, just started learning on a cheap excuse for a keyboard.......

Should I ask the piano seller to aid me in this? E.g. let me play on certain pianos? So play ttl or vj on them and see what's best or something like that?

You said that I could go for a cheaper one because of my demands, and I think you are right. But I'll need to try different kinds of digital pianso, but they should all have the grand something system you said, correct? What system should I ask for at the dealer?

I'm planning on heading there this friday and ordering that piano^^.

[hfmadopter]

Thanks David!

I could go to the store and test some pianos out. But the thing is, I can only play twinklle twinkle little star with only 1 hand on the board (either left or right) and vader jacob, so I'm not quite sure how you expect me to get a feel for those pianos? I can't play with both hands on the keys, just started learning on a cheap excuse for a keyboard.......

Should I ask the piano seller to aid me in this? E.g. let me play on certain pianos? So play ttl or vj on them and see what's best or something like that?

You said that I could go for a cheaper one because of my demands, and I think you are right. But I'll need to try different kinds of digital pianso, but they should all have the grand something system you said, correct? What system should I ask for at the dealer?

I'm planning on heading there this friday and ordering that piano^^.

It's the Grand Piano sound mode. These pianos have many sounds, most will include a Grand Piano sound.

 Yamaha GH or better and equivelent from other brands is nice for hammer technology. Most $1000-$1500 pianos will have that or something close..

If all you know is Twinkle, play twinkle then. Maybe play a C scale and a chord or two. If it's separate hands that's ok, doesn't matter. What matters is if you don't like the feel of the keys under your hands and the pressure it takes to press them. I understand that at this stage of your playing you don't really know but if something really strikes you as nice or as not nice that should be good to know I would think ?

Not knowing any of this reinforces the thought that really you need a decent piano to get started but not a flag ship model ( you can buy anything you want just saying, logistically speaking) ! You just don't need to spend a whole lot of extra money that would be better spent on lessons and music. A decent digital that responds similar to an acoustic and will last you for a few years will be good enough at this stage. By then you either bailed on piano or are ready and able to pick for yourself the piano you really want and maybe need..
David

[pianoplunker]

Hello all,

- Never owned a piano before
- Don't have much money, but willing to spend betweeen 1000-3000 euros (about 5000-6000 dollars I think)
- I'l take piano lessons not right away, but later after getting used to my piano
- I would love to be able to play bach, chopin and/or mozart
- I would love to be able to play piano versions of songs/anime openings
- My love for the piano began with classical music I would say. Then I listened to chopin and it really hit.
- The love also comes from piano versions of other songs.
- Will be paying piano off in 36 months, so about 50 euros each month.

I have my eyes on this piano: Kawai CN43. But I've heard the CA version is way more realistic to a real piano? If you have a suggestion for a better/similar piano that you think fits my demands, please say so!

I want to switch to a real piano when I'm 25-30 orso. So after I've finished school (I'm 20 now) and all. I want to easily be able to switch to a real piano, so I'm wondering if the Kawai is good enough for that.

Let's say I learn how to play on the Kawai, will I be able to play on a real piano as well? Obvious tone difference I understand, but would it be THAT different to master a real piano after a lot of years with a digital one?

Does the Kawai CN43 give a good immitation of a real piano? Hitting the keys and all? And the sounds are adjustable to replicate a real piano?

I don't want to upset my neighboors, so does the headphone option on the Kawai CN43 work really well? Like are the sounds in tune and all?

I understand that I don't need to tune the strings of the piano since it doesn't have any, hence being digital piano. But do I need to look out for something else? Like some maintenance work every now and then? What to do if keys are broken/jammed? Any info would be welcome.

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked a million times (or more), but this is a delicate manner to me. I'll read the stickies after posting this, but I would love and really appreciate personal comments.

Please help!

One thing you may want to try is a google search on Kawai cn 43 review. Here is a link to a site that speaks specifically about your situation and also mentions the MP6 that another poster mentioned.  https://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2011/09/review-kawai-cn43-roland-hp305-yamaha.html  In my opinion the CN43 is better for you because is has some built in educational features. You can sort of give yourself free digital piano lessons. Also has accompinment sections if you get to a point where you are not afraid to improvise it can be a lot of fun, like jamming with your own personal band.  There are fine keyboards to be had for under $2000 US as opposed to $3000 US so you may want to shop around at least read reviews on line and absolutely try it out in person. 

[chopin2015]

I have a casio CDP 100

to be honest with you go with one of these (400 dollars)

you will need to replace digital piano much more often that a real piano.

These things are not worth repairing the plastic "action" every time you put some miles on it.

This keyboard is weighted, and has MIDI unlike other CDP that are more expensive. I prefer the action on this one compared to the ones with a fancier computer. This one has piano, electric piano and harpsichord sounds on it. you will want the harpsichord sounds for your Bach. No organ sounds but you dont wanna mess with that without the pedals, although with midi I think you could get yourself a set of those. Anyways. I have a baby grand too, and I love this keyboard for practice.

What I do not like about keyboards is that there are no strings to take the energy from the keys you hit, and you end up taking alot of shock into your hands. I think that this keyboard has a realistic response and the keys are VERY percussive, which helps with accuracy. BUT you will need to decide that for yourself. Sometimes setting yourself up with a challenge is best, with a less forgiving keyboard.

Chopin said that if you play on a heavy action piano, you will develop a heavy touch, so perhaps find a "fast" piano. 

Email if you have any questions. I live in the US, but am European. I do not know if there are guitar centers in Europe. That is the cheapest way to go. Perhaps online if you are in Europe?

-J

[hfmadopter]

I have a casio CDP 100

to be honest with you go with one of these (400 dollars)

you will need to replace digital piano much more often that a real piano.

These things are not worth repairing the plastic "action" every time you put some miles on it.

This keyboard is weighted, and has MIDI unlike other CDP that are more expensive. I prefer the action on this one compared to the ones with a fancier computer. This one has piano, electric piano and harpsichord sounds on it. you will want the harpsichord sounds for your Bach. No organ sounds but you dont wanna mess with that without the pedals, although with midi I think you could get yourself a set of those. Anyways. I have a baby grand too, and I love this keyboard for practice. 

Email if you have any questions. I live in the US, but am European. I do not know if there are guitar centers in Europe. That is the cheapest way to go. Perhaps online if you are in Europe?

-J

Yes there are many different keyboards, I agree. One that is top notch for action for under $1000 ( I believe it's around $600 us) is the Korg Sp250. Or one could buy a Yamaha C33 for $1000, though you need to purchase speakers so it's not so worth while even if pro grade. But the action and feature set may be just what another person wants in a piano. The C33 has a fair following for gigs where it's hooked to a sound system.  And the new Kwais have the piano sounds nailed. I don't believe there is a Casio made that can compare in that department.

What you or I see as splendid in the action the OP may not !

[ranniks]

It's the Grand Piano sound mode. These pianos have many sounds, most will include a Grand Piano sound.

 Yamaha GH or better and equivelent from other brands is nice for hammer technology. Most $1000-$1500 pianos will have that or something close..

If all you know is Twinkle, play twinkle then. Maybe play a C scale and a chord or two. If it's separate hands that's ok, doesn't matter. What matters is if you don't like the feel of the keys under your hands and the pressure it takes to press them. I understand that at this stage of your playing you don't really know but if something really strikes you as nice or as not nice that should be good to know I would think ?

Not knowing any of this reinforces the thought that really you need a decent piano to get started but not a flag ship model ( you can buy anything you want just saying, logistically speaking) ! You just don't need to spend a whole lot of extra money that would be better spent on lessons and music. A decent digital that responds similar to an acoustic and will last you for a few years will be good enough at this stage. By then you either bailed on piano or are ready and able to pick for yourself the piano you really want and maybe need..
David

I understand what you mean. I was not aware that the piano was a flag ship model, but doesn't that just mean it is a decent piano? Something I could do years with without having to switch? A one time investment until I decide to purchase a real piano?

In any case, I don't want to make a hasty decision, so could you look at this list of pianos and tell me which one would perform as well as the cn43 or fit my needs? I don't want a portable one.

https://www.feedbackmusic.com/pianos-en-keyboards/digitale-pianos/home-piano%27s/100005947

(Scroll down and click on the second page for more)

And this list as well please:

https://www.vanurk.nl/producten/Digitale%20piano/alle/alle/

All pricings are in euros.

Would be really appreciated.

Oh and I'll do the C-scale on different pianos, thx!

I have a casio CDP 100

to be honest with you go with one of these (400 dollars)

you will need to replace digital piano much more often that a real piano.

These things are not worth repairing the plastic "action" every time you put some miles on it.

This keyboard is weighted, and has MIDI unlike other CDP that are more expensive. I prefer the action on this one compared to the ones with a fancier computer. This one has piano, electric piano and harpsichord sounds on it. you will want the harpsichord sounds for your Bach. No organ sounds but you dont wanna mess with that without the pedals, although with midi I think you could get yourself a set of those. Anyways. I have a baby grand too, and I love this keyboard for practice.

What I do not like about keyboards is that there are no strings to take the energy from the keys you hit, and you end up taking alot of shock into your hands. I think that this keyboard has a realistic response and the keys are VERY percussive, which helps with accuracy. BUT you will need to decide that for yourself. Sometimes setting yourself up with a challenge is best, with a less forgiving keyboard.

Chopin said that if you play on a heavy action piano, you will develop a heavy touch, so perhaps find a "fast" piano.  

Email if you have any questions. I live in the US, but am European. I do not know if there are guitar centers in Europe. That is the cheapest way to go. Perhaps online if you are in Europe?

-J

Thx for the post! That's why I think a digital piano will suit my needs more. Why would I need to switch a digital one though? Because of the new updates coming up? I don't really care mucha out the technological things fit into a digital piano, as long as it plays as close to a real piano, I'm happy. Oh and of course headset options and the basic computer stuff. If the cn43 has that and more, that would be fine with me.

Yes there are many different keyboards, I agree. One that is top notch for action for under $1000 ( I believe it's around $600 us) is the Korg Sp250. Or one could buy a Yamaha C33 for $1000, though you need to purchase speakers so it's not so worth while even if pro grade. But the action and feature set may be just what another person wants in a piano. The C33 has a fair following for gigs where it's hooked to a sound system.  And the new Kwais have the piano sounds nailed. I don't believe there is a Casio made that can compare in that department.

What you or I see as splendid in the action the OP may not !

I just don't want a keyboard=/. I want something resembling a real piano as close as possible and a digital one seems best for that. I watched a few videos on youtube about keyboards and they're not particullary too positive. Besides that, I want the feel of a real piano as well.

The cn43 may be expensive, but I'd be able to pay it in 30 months, and I can cover that. I even get a free bench, lol. But if you know something better, that fits my needs and excellence I''m looking for, please look through the links I've provided.

Thanks very much for your help btw David!

[chopin2015]

The reason I was telling you, you will need a new one eventually is not because of the upgrades, but because the action on a digital is different than mechanical action on a piano. It is not worth to fine tune a electronic action, it does not work that way. There are no hammers, just on, off and a couple more algorithms in between that. The digital programming can be fixed but alignment on your keyboard and key weight and response will change over the years. I would give it 2 years that you would have a digital piano (5 years, tops). Just consider it. They all feel like pianos if they have 88 keys and have the right weight.

[ranniks]

The reason I was telling you, you will need a new one eventually is not because of the upgrades, but because the action on a digital is different than mechanical action on a piano. It is not worth to fine tune a electronic action, it does not work that way. There are no hammers, just on, off and a couple more algorithms in between that. The digital programming can be fixed but alignment on your keyboard and key weight and response will change over the years. I would give it 2 years that you would have a digital piano (5 years, tops). Just consider it. They all feel like pianos if they have 88 keys and have the right weight.

Wait, are you saying that digital pianos will respond less and less fast over the years? What the hell? But that should apply to keyboards as well, for they are digital devices on their own, correct?

Please elaborate.

[hfmadopter]

Wait, are you saying that digital pianos will respond less and less fast over the years? What the hell? But that should apply to keyboards as well, for they are digital devices on their own, correct?

Please elaborate.

If you read my first post to you I said then that the main flaw with digital anything is depreciation. This devalues your instrument, sure it's repairable but is it worth repairing and so on ? I also said maybe look at the digital as your starter piano and acoustic in the long run or what ever you decide. But you must understand here that we are talking about $1500-$2500 pianos or there abouts. You can't compare that with a $30,000 grand piano even used never mind new. Mechanically what do you expect in that comparison ? So basically digitals are throw aways, you can spend a lot more than the 43 costs and the result is the same. Finally this harkins us back to my words about the wooden case, you are buying a wooden case with a digital keyboard in it after all. But they have their place, lots and lots of people buy them. My personal view is it makes a good secondary piano added on with an acoustic piano. Or if a person plays out, indispensable a keyboard can be in that case.

That said, the latest Kawai digital action has wooden keys, two versions of that. I am not sure if this includes the CN series. And they have hammer action through wippens. Also the person who said that strings take up shock in a grand piano is incorrect because the let offs let go of the tension before the hammer ever touches the strings, if adjusted correctly that's about 1/16 " before the hammers contact the strings.. Your fingers never feel the reaction of the hammers against the strings.

Yes the 43 is the flagship of the CN series pianos, in other words the top CN. There are other more expensive Kawais though.

I'm not interested in your list of other pianos, it's far too extensive a list for a forum response and would take hours and hours of research. You now have indicated you want a piano that looks like a piano. In my mind I'm all set with Kawai being the best in that class unless you want further or more advanced features and pay more money or pay less money for slightly less quality sound.. That's about it, you have a good choice. Had you said yes you are interested in keyboards as well that's different. But try a Roland out and try a Yamaha out anyway. You might feel differently about them than me. Look in your price range, don't over stretch your budget..

I think a good quality Kawai will go the 5 year mark at least, by then you should know what you really want in a piano. Also, keep this in mind. Many high end Rolands end up inside concert grand pianos for stage work , they just play cleaner into a sound system. But roving musicians and shows have the money to replace them as needed and often not the time to keep tuning strings on a grand piano at each stop around the world..

[ranniks]

Thanks David! And thanks for your patience. I'm sure you understand this isn't a tv I'm buying.

Btw, it has to sound as close to a real piano as possible and also resemble. I'm more inclined to it functioning (keys/sound) as a real piano than the looks, but since the Kawai is spot on with that.....So, with that being said, yes the cn43 is going to be it, final IF I'm buying one new.

A friend at work however suggested that I try to get my hands on a free acoustic piano. He said many people don't have room in their homes for their pianos and want to get rid of them. Only thing I would need to do is pay the transport costes. Keep in mind I live in holland and the people here are pretty carefull with their property.

Some people are even selling acoustic pianos in the range of 300-500 euros. I found one that's 350 euros, but the piano itself is about 50 years old. Or another one, which is less than 100 euros because the owner does not have any space (he got it from a church). Hardly anyone wants to buy an acoustic piano, so the pianos get stuck on sell website for years here in Holland.

My dad told me my neighbours wouldn't complain since my wall is not next to one of their bedrooms. My wall is next to their loundry room.

Again, would love to hear from you people.

That being said. Do you think it wise for me to consder getting myself a cheap acoustic piano, second hand of course. The quality shouldn't be bad, just the fact that they are low priced means because of a) owner has no room b) no ones wants to buy it for their prices.

So I've decided which digital I'm getting. Now it's time to see if perhaps an acoustic one is better since I have more clarity in the situation now. But then again, the acoustic I'm getting will probably be one that's not a known brand.....So maybe the digital is the one to go>.<.

Gosh! Wish I began playing earlier=/.

Don't know what to do. My heart tells me to get the cn43 >..<......

It seems like everytime I say to people I know that I'm going to pay in monthly fees, they either suggest a keyboard or something I go pick up for free somewhere. And all that just because this is going to be my first real piano and because it is 1.6k euros.......Maybe I should just shut up about the piano to others.

Gosh >.<....

[starstruck5]

I have a Kawai CA 63 -it took some getting used to after playing an acoustic for so many years -but as digital pianos go, they are excellent.

[hfmadopter]

Thanks David! And thanks for your patience. I'm sure you understand this isn't atvI'm buying.

Btw, it has to sound as close to a real piano as possible and also resemble. I'm more inclined to it functioning (keys/sound) as a real piano than the looks, but since the Kawai is spot on with that.....So, with that being said, yes the cn43 is going to be it, final IF I'm buying one new.

A friend at work however suggested that I try to get my hands on a free acoustic piano. He said many people don't have room in their homes for their pianos and want to get rid of them. Only thing I would need to do is pay the transport costs. Keep in mind I live in holland and the people here are pretty careful with their property.

Some people are even selling acoustic pianos in the range of 300-500 euros. I found one that's 350 euros, but the piano itself is about 50 years old.

My dad told me my neighbours wouldn't complain since my wall is not next to one of their bedrooms. My wall is next to their laundry room.

A

Don't know what to do. My heart tells me to get the cn43 >..<......

Have you gone to the Kawai website and listened to the audio demos of the piano you are interested in ? This might help. I have, it sounds convincing.

If you get a cheap or give away acoustic, you may be the next one on the list for years trying to sell it or give it away. That's generally about what those are worth. There are exceptions of course. Also at about 50-75 years is about where you need to start to show a little concern about the pin block drying out and the tuning pins not holding tune. It will not be worth rebuilding or having a new pin block installed unless it's a valuable piano..

Digital is the rage, the more and more they sound like acoustics the more the rage they become. The exception being good quality acoustic Grand Pianos. I'm willing to bet even in your area nobody is giving those away.

To your dad or about your dads comments. Is he living in the apartment next door ? If not then who is to say what the reaction will be ?

The most important words you have said is that your heart is telling you to get the CN43. Follow your heart but try to play one first at least or another kawai with the same action. I doubt the store has it in stock but maybe.. Generally not around here. Also, I do understand your friends concerns about payments, that usually comes later on in a piano following or in training.

[chopin2015]

Wait, are you saying that digital pianos will respond less and less fast over the years? What the hell? But that should apply to keyboards as well, for they are digital devices on their own, correct?

Please elaborate.

Correct, digital pianos are inferior to the real thing. Cannot live as long as the piano that has been known to man for much longer than the digital world. I doubt one could outlast the other, when it comes down to digital PIANO or KEYBOARD/workstation.

They have people who are skilled with electronics, but they probably could not adjust your action on any digital instrument. AKA I have a key that is broken on my keyboard because I dropped a fist into it, and this will never be fixed. I don't think anyone does this, you simply get a new one. Just a heads up on all that before you put the money into it.

[ranniks]

Have you gone to the Kawai website and listened to the audio demos of the piano you are interested in ? This might help. I have, it sounds convincing.

If you get a cheap or give away acoustic, you may be the next one on the list for years trying to sell it or give it away. That's generally about what those are worth. There are exceptions of course. Also at about 50-75 years is about where you need to start to show a little concern about the pin block drying out and the tuning pins not holding tune. It will not be worth rebuilding or having a new pin block installed unless it's a valuable piano..

Digital is the rage, the more and more they sound like acoustics the more the rage they become. The exception being good quality acoustic Grand Pianos. I'm willing to bet even in your area nobody is giving those away.

To your dad or about your dads comments. Is he living in the apartment next door ? If not then who is to say what the reaction will be ?

The most important words you have said is that your heart is telling you to get the CN43. Follow your heart but try to play one first at least or another kawai with the same action. I doubt the store has it in stock but maybe.. Generally not around here. Also, I do understand your friends concerns about payments, that usually comes later on in a piano following or in training.

You're right about the give away ones. Not worth the trouble.

Well David, we live in a linked house (or terraced house)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house

We only have one neighbour (we live at the far end of the houses) to consider and their loundry room is next to mine.

Seeing the acoustic pianos (new) at vanurk.com is really beginning to tempt me. I found a few at the range of 5000-6000 dollars with payment options that I can afford. Specifically these:

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/500

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/529

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/347

(They are on a bargain apparently, I think because no one is buying pianos in this time because of the economics.)

On the website they said we can talk about the payment options and I think I can get the pianos for 50 euros payment each month, maybe even less.

David, or anyone else with experience, could you please check those pianos out? I wouldn't mind paypalling you some money for all your trouble. Not because of your service, but out of gratitude.

My main concerns with the digital one are:

- Not an acoustic piano
- Someone in this thread posted that the response of the keys could go down (I'm not worried about broken keys)
- Durability (read on the internet that digital pianos ranging from 1000 USD and up are durable)

Concerns for the acoustic:

- Neighbours
- Tuning

Pro's cn43:

- Headphones
- Not so expensive
- good quality

Pro's acoustic:

- Real piano
- Not so expensive (the ones I have posted)
- Could last 10 years before deciding to buy a really good one

 

[hfmadopter]

You're right about the give away ones. Not worth the trouble.

Well David, we live in a linked house (or terraced house)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house

We only have one neighbour (we live at the far end of the houses) to consider and their laundry room is next to mine.
 

Here your housing would be called Duplex. When I was a kid I had a news paper delivery route with 108 customers, one section of that route was a row of duplex housing. I did ok on my news paper route, I always had money ! I bought many of my own things including a new bike at 12 years old. I even lent my mother money till dad came home on a payday and paid me back. But that was in the 1960s and this is today, oh well. Things are so so different today.

Anyway, I don't know a thing about the pianos you linked to except they obviously are upright pianos. What I do know is that a K series Kawai or a U series Yamaha should last you the rest of your life if you wanted it to. You hear mixed things but I believe mostly good about the Chinese made Young Chang.. And with uprights the taller it is the more the bass will resonate.

My first piano was an old upright. The bass was very good in that piano, the tone very good as well actually.. The action in an upright feels quite a bit different than in a grand piano. That piano served me with multi tunings till I got my grand that I still own now some 30 years later. I only owned the upright for a couple of years, sold it for what I paid for it which wasn't much.

I'm most likely different from most people looking for a piano in these forums. I have learned to be the technician of my own piano so I don't have tuning costs except for the purchase of a string here or there or other part perhaps. 30 years of ownership has taught me the right to work on my own piano and even someone else's now and then and do justice in the process if maybe not quite professional grade... Tuning is twice a year  generally around here , it tends to occur at the change of the seasons from summer to winter and back again, with minor touch up tunings in between. I'm sure it would be similar in your area. I feel it is advisable to have a tuning hammer if to own an acoustic ( personal opinion). Generally when a piano just tweeks out a tad it's one string here or there that has dropped it's tension a bit.  You can hold down a key to that note and pluck the strings individually with your finger and hear the dropped one. If it's extra close in drop you might need to rubber mute a string and tune to the other unmuted one. Just a matter of pulling it back up to tune. No different than owning any stringed instrument that needs tuning periodically except a piano has 220 strings that are hit percussion style.. I tune with a Korg CA 40 electronic tuning device, an Apprentice grade  hammer ( wrench if you prefer), a strip of felt and two rubber mutes. I regulate my own action and voice my own hammers as needed and I restring what I need to restring as needed. And I keep my copy of Arthur Reblitz' book Piano Servicing Tuning and Rebuilding handy. Hey, my piano is old it dates back to the late 1800s I'm not paying some guy to show up every time something goes boing or thunk when I know how to do it myself or otherwise can learn to do it !

I need not be paid to participate in an open forum but thanks for the offer! If I was near by in Holland I could come with you and be glad to look at pianos though, sadly not there. I love trying out pianos and looking over their innards, it's a way of learning more about brands and models !! There is a piano store down the road from me and actually they rebuild there. Mostly Grand pianos in the show room, so I really can't go there and see what you are looking at for a brand and model even. Some of their rebuilt baby grands are reasonably priced, except for the usual Steinways and Baldwins etc that cost a fortune.
David

[ranniks]

Is that so David? It's always nice to hear how people started the piano and where they grew up. Maybe I'm odd for saying that, but hey that's me.

Do you by any chance know what an 'ocassions' piano is?

Here is a whole list of Yamaha's uprights I could afford (well only the U3 probably).

https://www.vanurk.nl/producten/Piano/Occassion/Yamaha/4000

When I visit the store friday, I'll definitely check those out. I'm surprised the U3's go for that amount, I really thought they would go for 10k+ USD (they're about 7k usd at that store).

I've checked the website out, and I believe these are used pianos, but restorated very well. Even to the point of giving warranty (10 years for occasion and 20 years for grand) 0.o.  This is what the list says:

- The entire cabinet is equipped with a new black high gloss polyester lacquer.
- The soundboard is repainted.
- All spindles (nuclear markers) in the mechanism are replaced.
- Comb inspection for cracks or separation.
- Strings sound inspection and corrosion.
- Hammer felt shapes and intonation.
- Hammer regulation.
- Under the Hammer and opstoter spring inspection.
- Hairstyles renewed.
- Draft regulation.
- Complete new keytops.
- Pedals check and adjustment.
- Rast inspection for swelling or dehydration.
- Sounding board inspection for cracks or climatic stress.
- Voice control block voting strength and or dehydration.
- Rim timber inspection HINTS stress.
- Hinges and pedals are fully polished and are therefore as'' new''.
- Hinges are checked for smoothness and beeps.
- Keyboard inspection for cracks and warpage.

(I translated from google translate, couldn't translate it myself beacuse I don't know the correct terms.)

Is it legit? I am not able to believe they would ripp me off. But it is indeed the U series of Yamaha you suggested. Maybe I could even bargain the U3 for 2000 euros with payment plan, not sure 0.o.

Once again David, God bless you and thanks for your help!

Edit:

Found an affordable new Kawai : K-15 E

https://www.vanurk.nl/product/16

Google translate:

The Kawai K-15 E is the lowest piano from the famous K-series. With its height of 110 cm, he has a surprisingly full and bright sound and is an excellent piano for people who have less space, but still a good piano to own. Due to its attractive price, it is also a good starter piano and is therefore much by piano teachers recommended. Here are some specifications

Meassurements in cm: (HxBxD) 110 x 149 x 59
Weight: 196 kg

So this one is not secondhand or anything. Do you have an opinion about this piano David? Your opinion on the U series (the occasions piano's) is just as important!

[hfmadopter]

Is that so David? It's always nice to hear how people started the piano and where they grew up. Maybe I'm odd for saying that, but hey that's me.

Do you by any chance know what an 'ocassions' piano is?

Here is a whole list of Yamaha's uprights I could afford (well only the U3 probably).

https://www.vanurk.nl/producten/Piano/Occassion/Yamaha/4000

When I visit the store friday, I'll definitely check those out. I'm surprised the U3's go for that amount, I really thought they would go for 10k+ USD (they're about 7k usd at that store).

I've checked the website out, and I believe these are used pianos, but restorated very well. Even to the point of giving warranty (10 years for occasion and 20 years for grand) 0.o.  This is what the list says:

- The entire cabinet is equipped with a new black high gloss polyester lacquer.
- The soundboard is repainted.
- All spindles (nuclear markers) in the mechanism are replaced.
- Comb inspection for cracks or separation.
- Strings sound inspection and corrosion.
- Hammer felt shapes and intonation.
- Hammer regulation.
- Under the Hammer and opstoter spring inspection.
- Hairstyles renewed.
- Draft regulation.
- Complete new keytops.
- Pedals check and adjustment.
- Rast inspection for swelling or dehydration.
- Sounding board inspection for cracks or climatic stress.
- Voice control block voting strength and or dehydration.
- Rim timber inspection HINTS stress.
- Hinges and pedals are fully polished and are therefore as'' new''.
- Hinges are checked for smoothness and beeps.
- Keyboard inspection for cracks and warpage.

(I translated from google translate, couldn't translate it myself beacuse I don't know the correct terms.)

Is it legit? I am not able to believe they would ripp me off. But it is indeed the U series of Yamaha you suggested. Maybe I could even bargain the U3 for 2000 euros with payment plan, not sure 0.o.

Once again David, God bless you and thanks for your help

Here is a link, listen to various upright pianos at this site. One of the players is quite good and he plays a U3 Yamaha. Just go down the list to the U3 and click on the video. https://rickjonespianos.com/uprights.htm

Kawai is good, I do believe the K15E is made in either Taiwan or China to Kawai specs. I'd just as soon own the U3. At this same site there is a K2 Kawai you can listen to.
David

[ranniks]

I've listened to the u3 ones David! They sound absolutely amazing! If I'm getting an acoustic, it's going to be the u3! I listened to some kawai k models too, they sounded great as well.

So it's going to be a battle between the u3 and the cn43.

I'll be heading to the store friday, so I'll let you know what happens!

(And the guy playing the u3's is bloody genius!)

[hfmadopter]

I've listened to the u3 ones David! They sound absolutely amazing! If I'm getting an acoustic, it's going to be the u3! I listened to some kawai k models too, they sounded great as well.

So it's going to be a battle between the u3 and the cn43.

I'll be heading to the store friday, so I'll let you know what happens!

(And the guy playing the u3's is bloody genius!)

Ya I've noticed they've more and more let him do the playing on a lot of the pianos. Thought you would like the U3 ! If you have time you should let yourself be treated at the same site to one of the 5'10"- 6'7" Kawai or Yamaha grand pianos. You may not buy one but it's sure nice to get your roots grounded about how a piano should sound. Just look for the link to Grand Pianos. If you can't find it I'll post it.

Meanwhile happy shopping ! You have two good choices now.
David

[ranniks]

The grand pianos are really different from the uprights. Not sure if I should be able to notice the difference, but it's like a grand has something different. I wouldn't say better than an upright, but it has something.

David, what is the song this person is playing in the beginning?

Is it it Mozart? It can't be Chopin??? I'm a newb=/.

[mikeowski]

It's scarlatti, the guy with the camera says it at about 3:35.

[chopin2015]

Scarlatti is so awesome!!! I want a harpsichord!!! I currently use the harpsichord sounds on my keyboard for that. LOL

[hfmadopter]

It's scarlatti, the guy with the camera says it at about 3:35.

Yes. Also, I believe I made a mistake in an earlier posting saying that Young Chang was Chinese made. They are not Chinese made but Korean.
David

[hfmadopter]

One of my favorite light Scarlatti pieces with my favorite pianist, since people are saying they like this stuff:

The control is unbelievable for a guy about 80 when he did this, Horowitz that is. And look at the touch action on that piano, his personal Steinway incidentally, that's all he ever played on all over the world. Also brought his persnal tuner with him, the only person to work on his trusted Steinway for decades.

David

[ranniks]

Thx everyone!

David, Horowitz seems really good. I've looked him up, and he has had a really interesting past.

I may have fallen in love with that scarlatti part; just beautifull. I hope I can play that song on the cn43 if I'm picking that one.

I've learned a new song on my crappy keyboard btw: Marry had a little lamb. I'm going too fast through the keys though, but that's because I don't know how the song goes, lol.

[hfmadopter]

Thx everyone!

David, Horowitz seems really good. I've looked him up, and he has had a really interesting past.

I may have fallen in love with that scarlatti part; just beautifull. I hope I can play that song on the cn43 if I'm picking that one.

I've learned a new song on my crappy keyboard btw: Marry had a little lamb. I'm going too fast through the keys though, but that's because I don't know how the song goes, lol.

Mary Had a Little Lamb tempo moderate, perhaps about like in this video though he has embellished it: [ Invalid YouTube link ]

Good luck shopping today !
David

[ranniks]

Mary Had a Little Lamb tempo moderate, perhaps about like in this video though he has embellished it: [ Invalid YouTube link ]

Good luck shopping today !
David

Wow, that's the real MHALL? I just know the part where you hit edc eee ddd e gg edc eee e dd edc. I want to learn that one as well, but I think a lot of practising will be in order.

And thx David! I mailed the store I'm buying the piano from and they told me to give them a call. So I did and he told me he would show me around and play some songs for me and that I could try them out to get a feel which one is best. After a talk about the finances though, lol.

I'll be at the store about 7-8 hours from now, so in the mean time I'm gonna look at the topics here at pianostreet.

I'll tell you an interesting story David....I was in the neighborhood of Amsterdam a few months back (for an exam) and as I was waiting for the exams in the school, I heard piano sound coming from a room not far away. About 10 minutes later I was enjoying chopin, mozart, bach, vivaldi, beethoven and some others. Someone who started piano at age 7 (mind you he was 50-65 when I met him at the exam location) played them. I was fascinated.

At first I wanted to learn the violin and deliberately chose not to persue the piano. The only reason for that was because I thought I was being persuaded by that person playing the piano at the exam location. But that was not true.

Everytime I finish a song I want to show off, but I don't really have a public other than my parents and siblings. Now I know that I only need one public; God. God will listen to the songs I play. And maybe in the future other publics may enjoy the (horrible/good) plays I play.

Anyways, sorry for the long story.

Hopefully I can announce tonight that I have my piano.

Cheers.

[ranniks]

Wow!

The piano is so much different than my halfbroken excuse for a keyboard! The weight behind those keys really makes the difference.

I've played on a digital, upright and grand today. My what fine things. The Kawai (k-15 E) and Yamaha (U3) uprights were absolutely amazing to play on and felt natural.

But my pick...The Kawai cn33! The cn43 just has extra features, but I just want to play piano. I played on it and it was tricky at first because the weight behind the keys was troubling me. After a little while I got used to it.

But the Kawai upright was probably the best! New it costes 3550 euros.....The payment plan wasn't really as it was described on the website =/. You have to pay a 1/3 or 1/4 of the price and then you can pay it off monthly.

Too bad, that Kawai would have made my world.....Oh well... I hope that the cn33 will please me in every need.

The one who helped me pick played mozart, bach and beethoven on the digital and it sounded absolutely amazing!

I havn't signed anything yet, it's going to be done next week most likely. The one who showed me around also told me the cn33 was a good to go for piano lessons.

Did I choose right David? I would have loved to buy the Kawai or Yamaha upright....But I simply cannot afford it =/.

Alternatively I could get a cheap keyboard of 200 euros, save money for 2 years and get the kawai 15-e, but I don't think that's a good idea, is it?

The cn33 is going to be 1300 euros, but about 1400-1500 with payment plan.

With the rest of the money I'm going to get piano lessons.

[ranniks]

Actually...I want to give my honest opinion about the cn33.

I tried the cn33 first. It was kind of tedious because the keys were weighted, but I could play the songs I rehearsed at home on it.

The first acoustic I tried was kind of hard to play on because it was first time playing on it. It was a Rich.Weber I think. Then came the august Forster something; I played decent on this one too.
Then the Kawai; I could play mary had a little lamb pretty easily on that one. And on the u3 too. The odd thing is, it seemed I could play marry had a little lamb easier on the kawai and u3 than on the cn33. It was mostly because the tone was different. Louder I think.

When the person showing me around played on the cn33 (he is a teacher) it sounded great! Absolutely fine. He upped the tone and it sounded just like the kawai 15-e/u3. Maybe it's because I've never played on weighted keys. Maybe I just need to get used to the keys?

Should I just visit the shop again with my brother (he needs to sign the papers because he has a stable income) and play for a while on the cn33 before deciding? Perhaps even try other digital ones?

[ranniks]

I'm considering looking at the Yamaha YDP-161 piano. It's a bit cheaper, but I think that's because it has less bells and whistles on it.

David, in terms of just playing piano and the grade hammer system, is the ydp-161 better than, worse or just as good as the cn33?

The game has changed with visiting the store today, hehe. =/

[hfmadopter]

Actually...I want to give my honest opinion about the cn33.

I tried the cn33 first. It was kind of tedious because the keys were weighted, but I could play the songs I rehearsed at home on it.

The first acoustic I tried was kind of hard to play on because it was first time playing on it. It was a Rich.Weber I think. Then came the august Forster something; I played decent on this one too.
Then the Kawai; I could play mary had a little lamb pretty easily on that one. And on the u3 too. The odd thing is, it seemed I could play marry had a little lamb easier on the kawai and u3 than on the cn33. It was mostly because the tone was different. Louder I think.

When the person showing me around played on the cn33 (he is a teacher) it sounded great! Absolutely fine. He upped the tone and it sounded just like the kawai 15-e/u3. Maybe it's because I've never played on weighted keys. Maybe I just need to get used to the keys?

Should I just visit the shop again with my brother (he needs to sign the papers because he has a stable income) and play for a while on the cn33 before deciding? Perhaps even try other digital ones?

Investigate touch adjustments. Most digitals have it. Kawai does tend to run a bit strong on key tension or weight if you will. I suspect more than one setting may be available.

Otherwise you can't buy what you can't afford or it's certainly not advisable.. But you could try for instance Yamahas.

Now see why we said to go try them out !!??

[hfmadopter]

I'm considering looking at the Yamaha YDP-161 piano. It's a bit cheaper, but I think that's because it has less bells and whistles on it.

David, in terms of just playing piano and the grade hammer system, is the ydp-161 better than, worse or just as good as the cn33?

The game has changed with visiting the store today, hehe. =/

The Yamaha is nice sounding. Same deal, 161 or 141 ? The 141 would probably suit you. The key weight technology is different from Kawai's. I believethose Yamahas have GHS hammer technology. Many people use them, like them but the Kawai is a step up in that regard. However, if you don't like the action you don't like the action of the Kawai and that's that ( other than trying the touch sensativity control if it has it. I don't know that answer).

[ranniks]

The Yamaha is nice sounding. Same deal, 161 or 141 ? The 141 would probably suit you. The key weight technology is different from Kawai's. I believethose Yamahas have GHS hammer technology. Many people use them, like them but the Kawai is a step up in that regard. However, if you don't like the action you don't like the action of the Kawai and that's that ( other than trying the touch sensativity control if it has it. I don't know that answer).

I just didn't like the feel of the cn33's I think. It felt harder/rougher to play on the cn33 than on the k 15-e or the u3. Don't know what it was. I hope it was the touch sensetivity.....

Regarding the ydp. I''m assuming the ydp 141 is just the same as the ydp 161 except it has less bells and whistles on it? If that's the case, the 141 is most likely best for me. Look at these:

That last one isn't a ydp 161 I think, but he plays it amazingly. That's the quality I'm looking for, although some parts need to be up.

Thanks for answering my questions David, you're the best! Hopefully the ydp isn't too hard on me.