Hi, would love some help on picking first (digital) piano

[hfmadopter]

I just didn't like the feel of the cn33's I think. It felt harder/rougher to play on the cn33 than on the k 15-e or the u3. Don't know what it was. I hope it was the touch sensetivity.....

Regarding the ydp. I''m assuming the ydp 141 is just the same as the ydp 161 except it has less bells and whistles on it? If that's the case, the 141 is most likely best for me. Look at these:

That last one isn't a ydp 161 I think, but he plays it amazingly. That's the quality I'm looking for, although some parts need to be up.

Thanks for answering my questions David, you're the best! Hopefully the ydp isn't too hard on me.

As digitals go I'd consider the 161 to have the better hammer system over the 141. Neither will be a duplicate of the real thing and both open to interpretations by the user.

I have to tell you I'm pretty well tapped out on this thread !
David

[hfmadopter]

I just didn't like the feel of the cn33's I think. It felt harder/rougher to play on the cn33 than on the k 15-e or the u3. Don't know what it was. I hope it was the touch sensetivity.....

Regarding the ydp. I''m assuming the ydp 141 is just the same as the ydp 161 except it has less bells and whistles on it? If that's the case, the 141 is most likely best for me. Look at these:

That last one isn't a ydp 161 I think, but he plays it amazingly. That's the quality I'm looking for, although some parts need to be up.

Thanks for answering my questions David, you're the best! Hopefully the ydp isn't too hard on me.

The 161 has GH and the 141 has GHS technology ( That's the hammer technology, GH should be more real but hey lots of people like both)..

I'm hitting the wall here, time for bed me thinks.
David

[ranniks]

Thanks for all your help David!

I''ll let you know the progress of the whole piano ordeal next week. I want to thank you for your patience with me. If I'm getting the ydp 141/161 I'm just gonna save for a long time while taking piano classes every week orso. Then maybe in 3 or 4 or 5 years I can buy whatever acoustic I want.

Gonna have a lot of fun on the ydp I hope. Well obviously after I test it out at the shop.

[hfmadopter]

Thanks for all your help David!

I''ll let you know the progress of the whole piano ordeal next week. I want to thank you for your patience with me. If I'm getting the ydp 141/161 I'm just gonna save for a long time while taking piano classes every week orso. Then maybe in 3 or 4 or 5 years I can buy whatever acoustic I want.

Gonna have a lot of fun on the ydp I hope. Well obviously after I test it out at the shop.

Glad you see the value in trying a piano out and also in taking lessons. Many people today miss on both counts !

Good luck with your choice.
David

[ranniks]

I tried the YDP 141 and YDP 161 out today. I spend a good time on both I suppose. I'm edging more towards the 141 because the keys of the 161 felt heavier (?). And when compared to the acoustics of yesterday, the 141 felt closest to that feeling. The 161 felt better than the cn33, but it was still too heavy inlaid. Sound wise they are both the same, but the 161 is apparently more insolated (the dealer said).

The dealer played some jazz on both pianos for me (he couldn't do classic, well maybe 1 small one), it sounded the same on both pianos, except maybe the 161 made it sound more isolated (for effects?).

Pro's 141:

- The keys are weighted, comes closest to acoustic imho

Con's 141:

- Honestly, the only thing that bothered me was the way the keys felt on my skin (so not the function of playing on it, but the cold touch of it on my skin). It felt.....cheaper than the 161? I could come over this I think.

Pro's 161:

- Sound is slightly insolated
- Keys feel classy on my hands

Con's 161:

- Initially feels too heavy.

In all honesty, I'm edging towards the 141, but the only reason I'm considering the 161 is because the 141 seems like 'the cheaper car'. Not sure if that makes any sense.

I'm gonna buy one of them next week. Definitely gonna play at least a good 30 minutes on both of them before I buy one (I'll head to the store again).

What do you guys think? I hope they both are functional for piano lessons (so lessons on acoustic with teacher, and practise/most hours on ydp 141/161). Hmm...

[hfmadopter]

I seriously think you are being swayed by your old broken keyboard action. Next time you go to the store do this. Sit at all pianos you are interested in and repeat as fast as you can pressing one single note, even at times only partial pressing the key not fully to the key bed. A good acoustic will repeat constantly. There are times in playing piano where you rapidly repeat one note, some times you use three different fingers on the same note as a means of keeping count and not all digitals keep up. Not all digitals keep up even with a trill ( rapid jogging between two adjacent notes).

You want the one that keeps up because some day ! Incidentally, the 161 and the 141 have a setting of hard medium and soft settings for key weight. I suspect the Kawai does as well but it's not confirmed.

Go back and look at Horowitz' touch in that Scarlatti video I posted to you, notice the minute touch over many keys at times and repeated touch on one key other times.

[ranniks]

Someday I'll what? Have an acoustic piano? I hope so David^^.

Well, I'm most likely getting myself the piano tomorrow, or someday this week. Eventually I'm going to have to get used to the piano's weighted keys and even if an acoustic's are somewhat lighter, the switch schould be easier. Also, if it's true what you are saying about the switch for the weights of the keys, that would be even better.

The ydp 161 goes for 1029 euros including a bench and headphones. That's about 1500-1750 dollars I think. The ydp 141 is 850 euros, 900 including bench and headphones. That should be 1300-1500 dollars me thinks.

The store I visited for the ydps doesn't have any acoustics I'm afraid. Even so, the ydps are by far in my opinion more accessable than the cn33. The cn33 just wasn't it for me, and I think that's why everyone should test the pianos out before buying them. The feel for the user is most important.

Edit:

And about Horowitz; thx for telling me, I noticed what you meant.

[hfmadopter]

Someday I'll what? Have an acoustic piano? I hope so David^^.
 

No, well ya I hope you get an acoustic someday too. But I meant that someday your piano will suddenly have to keep up with fast repeated passages of music that you play. Maybe sooner than later, so you want the one that will repeat for you.

And do check out those settings for key weight. You want it to able to do Trills, Turns and just fast runs of music. You don't want to be hampered with lag time and touch issues. I'm even thinking Fur Elise, an early accomplishment for many pianists ( myself included many years ago now) I had to do that repeated note sequencing in. And Bach, every teacher worth anything will get you involved with Bach, fast passages and trills in Bach, not like Scarlatti, Shumann and Mozart but there non the less. I suspect you will be into early works of Bach within the first year.

[ranniks]

No, well ya I hope you get an acoustic someday too. But I meant that someday your piano will suddenly have to keep up with fast repeated passages of music that you play. Maybe sooner than later, so you want the one that will repeat for you.

And do check out those settings for key weight. You want it to able to do Trills, Turns and just fast runs of music. You don't want to be hampered with lag time and touch issues. I'm even thinking Fur Elise, an early accomplishment for many pianists ( myself included many years ago now) I had to do that repeated note sequencing in. And Bach, every teacher worth anything will get you involved with Bach, fast passages and trills in Bach, not like Scarlatti, Shumann and Mozart but there non the less. I suspect you will be into early works of Bach within the first year.

I hope so too!

&feature=relmfu

The ydp 140 playing Fur Elise and a song of Bach.

[chopin2015]

I can trill faster on my electric than my 5'2 baby grand(Chickering, fully restored with ivory keys) I feel like Im playing on Liszt's piano.

[hfmadopter]

I hope so too!

&feature=relmfu

The ydp 140 playing Fur Elise and a song of Bach.

That Bach doesn't have anything like I'm speaking of going on but that's ok I'm sure the 141 will do it.

Someone else on the forum bought a 141 incidentally and the tonal quality was quite good and so it was in the You tube samples you put up as well ( not sure about the 140 designation, assume it's in your country but the same as a 141).

And incidentally the action is GHS which is not Yamaha's top action.  What matters is if it suits you. GH is in the middle and GH3 on top as of right now anyway..

You will be pleased what ever you get compared with what you've been playing !!
David

[hfmadopter]

I can trill faster on my electric than my 5'2 baby grand(Chickering, fully restored with ivory keys) I feel like Im playing on Liszt's piano.

Cool. I played on a Chickering in a club once, nice piano incidentally ( course no idea what model, a bit larger than yours maybe, 5'6 or 5'7- 6').

[ranniks]

^^

https://www.shopping.com/Yamaha-Yamaha-YDP141-Digital-Piano-With-Bench/good-medium-advanced-players-digital-piano/86938467/reviews#tabAnchor

So the ydp 141 has 64 polyphones and the 161 has 128 polyphones. The writer of the review above says that advanced players need 128 polyphones. I'm not sure what polyphones has to do with it, but he says '64 notes can be played at the same time'. Since when does a human being have 64 fingers to place on 64 notes 0.o?

Is this what you meant David? I'm not sure how good I'll be with the piano in a year from now, but I wouldn't want 64 polyphones holding me back. Or is that just nonsense what the reviewer is saying?

[schuf]

I tried the YDP 141 and YDP 161 out today. I spend a good time on both I suppose. I'm edging more towards the 141 because the keys of the 161 felt heavier (?). And when compared to the acoustics of yesterday, the 141 felt closest to that feeling. The 161 felt better than the cn33, but it was still too heavy inlaid. Sound wise they are both the same, but the 161 is apparently more insolated (the dealer said).

Hello, I registered just to say this shows how touch is such a subjective thing.

I have tried the GHS in the P95 before and can say I didn't like it all that much. I haven't tried the GH in the 161 or the Kawai RH keybeds but they are usually considered to be in a tier above and "superior". Buyer beware!

[hfmadopter]

^^

https://www.shopping.com/Yamaha-Yamaha-YDP141-Digital-Piano-With-Bench/good-medium-advanced-players-digital-piano/86938467/reviews#tabAnchor

So the ydp 141 has 64 polyphones and the 161 has 128 polyphones. The writer of the review above says that advanced players need 128 polyphones. I'm not sure what polyphones has to do with it, but he says '64 notes can be played at the same time'. Since when does a human being have 64 fingers to place on 64 notes 0.o?

Is this what you meant David? I'm not sure how good I'll be with the piano in a year from now, but I wouldn't want 64 polyphones holding me back. Or is that just nonsense what the reviewer is saying?

I was speaking more in terms of action and the ability of the keys to repeat rapidly and with accuracy. However, also if you consider polyphony as well, 128 voices is obviously better. Consider the sustain pedal, polyphony will be all voices that are possible to be speaking at once as a count. So if you are playing a fist full of music rapidly and sustaining the notes then obviously there are many more sounds coming out of the piano than playing staccato. It's just as important that the system itself can articulate meaning to the sounds. So you reach a high level of proficient playing  lets say, you don't want your instruments sound system turning it to mud.

In deed it will be a while before you have to worry about much if any of this. The day will come though if you stick with piano.

Also that was a personal review vs professional review that you linked to.. It's one persons idea of how the 141 performs. That said his points were as valid as anyones. I understand why the sound wasn't up to standards they had hoped for with just 6 watt speakers in the unit. I'm curious how many watts the sound system itself is rated for. You can't expect a lot of thunder out of those speakers though. The reviewer nailed the catagory well, which boils down to student or early learning to intermediate. And i guess one would nclude home entertainment.

[hfmadopter]

Hello, I registered just to say this shows how touch is such a subjective thing.

I have tried the GHS in the P95 before and can say I didn't like it all that much. I haven't tried the GH in the 161 or the Kawai RH keybeds but they are usually considered to be in a tier above and "superior". Buyer beware!

I've been pretty consistent in suggesting to people around the forums that if to go digital buy something with at least GH or equivelent. Many have bought GHS though which is the lowest standard of weighted action. Some people have reported GHS as crappy some others like it. More than one person has stated that Kawai's digital piano action is on the firm side but accurate.

You know if you go out and play in any clubs and the like out there in the world you land on the bench of many different pianos with many different kinds of action. My grand pianos action is on the light side ( I actually weighted my keys a bit to gain a bit more resistance) and can tell you that if you play all the time on a light action piano when you sit at one with heavy action it takes a bit to adjust. More so than the other way around. Still by far, accurate action is more important than the weight itself. NOthing is worse than action that isn't regulated well. Fine touch to me is more important than resistance of the keys, you grow into key resistance,  be that light or heavy.. These elements are not the same , fine touch vs weight that is. Though remotely related. I will say I like a bit of firmness to the action, if it's way too light your fingers tend to just fly, at least I for one need that little tension to get good muscle reaction ( which is why I weighted my keys a bit heavier than they were).
David

[lhorwinkle]

The YDP141 is NOT just a YDP161 minus some features.

The 141 has the GHS keyboard action, which is substantially inferior to the 161, which has the GH action.

Honestly, though, if you can afford better, spend the money. The Yamaha CLP430 or CLP440 and the Kawai CA63 are MUCH better than the low-end products. They won't necessarily sound that much better. The difference is in the keyboard action.

The Yamaha CLPs have the GH3 action, and the Kawai ... well I don't know the marketing moniker for their keyboard ... are all far better than what you find in the low-end goods.

You generally don't find those models at music stores. You have to visit a piano dealer. (Have you?)

The difference is like night and day. Don't ruin your fingers on a lightweight keyboard. If you can afford it, get something better.

[ranniks]

Sadly I can't afford better=/.

Well, regarding the keyboard thing you're mentioning. I've tried several acoustic pianos last friday and the ydps on saturday.

The difference between the ydp 141 and the kawai 15 e or u3 was smaller than the difference between the ydp 161 and the kawai e or u3. At least, to my perspective. But I shall visit the store again this friday and test them both out longer.

Btw, the ydps are digital pianos, not keyboards.

Have you tried the ydps before?

[hfmadopter]

Sadly I can't afford better=/.

Well, regarding the keyboard thing you're mentioning. I've tried several acoustic pianos last friday and the dps on saturday.

The difference between the ydp 141 and the kawaii 15 e or u3 was smaller than the difference between the ydp 161 and the kawai e or u3. At least, to my perspective. But I shall visit the store again this friday and test them both out longer.

Btw, the idps are digital pianos, not keyboards.

Have you tried the ups before?

I know I mentioned it but try to keep the adjustment for key weight in mind as you check the pianos out again. By about all accounts or by most peoples opinions at least, GH should be a better action than GHS.

 I'm not getting into the finances or getting extra work to afford what you want thing. That's entirely your business ( and apparently your brothers) but if in the end you can swing a piano with GH or GH3 I think in the long run you will be happier. If not then GHS will do ( just keep in mind it's a lesser action, cheaper).
 
David

[ranniks]

There's really just one concern I have with the ydp 161 David: I read somewhere that you need to warm up on the piano before playing on it, because initially the keys feel heavier than when beginning or something in that direction.

But this friday I'm going to thoroughly play on the 161 and then the 141 and finally make a decision. My brother loaned me 600 dollars, so now I can just buy the thing.

Oh and I'll definitely check/ask for the weight adjustments.

[ranniks]

David, I've found a teacher who's willing to teach me the piano! When I told him I'm getting the ydp one he told me he had a friend/someone he knew that sold a piano for 425 euros. He also said the piano was in good shape. He's a teacher so he should know, right? I'm assuming he's played on it before.

I've just send him a mail telling him about the ydp's gh/ghs system etc. Also asked him his opinion about good digital>cheaper acoustic.

Also, in holland it''s allowed to play the piano before 10 pm, so I don't think my neighbours will mind.

I'm not making ANY hasty decisions though. It's most likely just going to be the ydp 161.

David, can I have your input on this?

[ranniks]

The teacher I've found has done a conservatoire bachelor, not sure if also a master, but probably. His direction was jazz, pop and worldmusic and has been a piano licht music teacher for 9 years at a music school (and still is). When I asked him about classical music lessons he said 'Of course, classical music is the basis for everything you play'.

Not sure if that matters.

[ranniks]

So he just messaged me back:

1. If Im buying a DP, I shouldn't buy a new one because they lose their worth. DP's become cheaper every year etc.
2. As a beginner a DP is fine, but after a while Ill notice that an acoustic is better to play on because of the sound and action, even if it is a used acoustic. Especially if I'm playing classical music.
3. If I'm buying an acoustic piano, I won't lose much money, even zero. Only tuning costes and moving costes exist.

He also said that the choice is sometimes difficult.

Hmmmmmmmm. I think I'm just going for the ydp. I mean, if in the end an acoustic is better, I can always buy one in a few years.

Would love to hear your input on this though, David.

[ranniks]

The teacher said if I'm going to play an hour a day, at a normal time, a neighbour wouldn't complain. If we're looking at the law, they couldnt.

I'm just gonna take a peak at the piano one of these days. Get a feel on it. I doubt the teacher would lie to me about the state of the piano, since I'm going to be taking lessons from him. If the acoustic is not to my taste, ydp it is^^.

[hfmadopter]

The teacher said if I'm going to play an hour a day, at a normal time, a neighbour wouldn't complain. If we're looking at the law, they couldnt.

I'm just gonna take a peak at the piano one of these days. Get a feel on it. I doubt the teacher would lie to me about the state of the piano, since I'm going to be taking lessons from him. If the acoustic is not to my taste, ydp it is^^.

Well I see things are moving along for you ! My take on this is follow your teachers advice, that's my gut instinct response. It may not be the end of the story but a good starting point.

Way back about maybe 60 postings ago I mentioned that digital depreciates ( looses value quickly) but digital sometimes is the best way into starting piano. More options are now on the table for you. You already know that you like the feel of an acoustic but be aware that there will be cost associated with owning one. I can almost bet a weeks pay that this piano is probably in decent shape based on the teachers words and that it still will need tuning and some regulation work right where it sits now and certainly after the move..

Your call, as I said before you really have to decide if it's going to be digital or acoustic. Only you can decide that ! But I am so glad that you found a teacher, that part is going to reward you more than your piano choice will at this stage.
David

[ranniks]

Thanks David!

So I have my first lesson next week! Pretty excited. It's an introductory lesson. I hope it goes well. If it does, I'll be taking weekly lessons with him.

Also I messaged the owner of the acoustic piano a mail, so I hope I can get to see it this week and buy it. Since it's cheaper than the digital, I can get it moved by piano movers. Also can pay the regulation and tuning costes because I have money to spare (the money I would have spend on the digital). Still not deciding if I'm buying the acoustic; I do have to see it first of course.

I think you're right about making a decision. If the acoustic feels good I'll definitely buy it. If not, digital is always another option.

Once again, thanks for all your help David! I hope I can play Chopin and Fur Elise by the end of this year or at least the basics.

[chopin2015]

Acoustic is definitely the way to go for classical piano. Do you live in a house or apartment?

[hfmadopter]

Thanks David!

So I have my first lesson next week! Pretty excited. It's an introductory lesson. I hope it goes well. If it does, I'll be taking weekly lessons with him.

Also I messaged the owner of the acoustic piano a mail, so I hope I can get to see it this week and buy it. Since it's cheaper than the digital, I can get it moved by piano movers. Also can pay the regulation and tuning costes because I have money to spare (the money I would have spend on the digital). Still not deciding if I'm buying the acoustic; I do have to see it first of course.

I think you're right about making a decision. If the acoustic feels good I'll definitely buy it. If not, digital is always another option.

Once again, thanks for all your help David! I hope I can play Chopin and Fur Elise by the end of this year or at least the basics.

There are some light Chopin pieces your teacher may get you involved in. Fur Elise, everyone is different, I did it by the end of my first year though yes ( many many years ago now incidentally!)..

[ranniks]

Acoustic is definitely the way to go for classical piano. Do you live in a house or apartment?

A house. But the piano has to go up one pair of stairs to get to my room. I really need it to be in my room. So I'd have to pay for the moving costes as well. Worth it though; an investment.

I hope so, but I'd have to play on the used acoustic first.

[ranniks]

There are some light Chopin pieces your teacher may get you involved in. Fur Elise, everyone is different, I did it by the end of my first year though yes ( many many years ago now incidentally!)..

I like Chopin very much, but Bach is probably my favorite. Bach gives me the feel of 'you can calm down, take a taste of class at its best'.

I have this on my phone and I listen to it every morning while reading a book on the way to work on the bus.

Chopin makes me think back of my past and how it really didn't matter what sad things happened, the thing that matters is that I'm here now. But mostly it makes me intrigued.

Beethoven's Fur Elize makes me think I'll play the song for the crush who rejected me, lol.

Mozart brings the beast out of me; the beast of energy and flare. "I'll take on the world'.

Sclarrati gives me an otherwordly vibe and I havn't listened enough to rachmaninov to give a proper judgement. I also fail to recognize sonatas, not to mention other classical composers, but I guess that's natural since I'm an utter beginner.

Well, I'll keep you folks updated on the acoustic ordeal^^. Can't wait until wensday, lol.

[ranniks]

Update (that was fast, lol):

Just received some pictures of the piano and most likely am going to check it out tomorrow. (David, check your inbox please! )

Also, do I have to let the piano be tuned after I get it delivered home? I read somewhere it first should be let get used to the atmosphere in my room or something?

Brand is 'Alexander Herman'. I'm not too bothered about the brand because it's going to be my first acoustic and I don't need an expansive Yamaha just yet, lol.

[hfmadopter]

Update (that was fast, lol):

Just received some pictures of the piano and most likely am going to check it out tomorrow. (David, check your inbox please! )

Also, do I have to let the piano be tuned after I get it delivered home? I read somewhere it first should be let get used to the atmosphere in my room or something?

Brand is 'Alexander Herman'. I'm not too bothered about the brand because it's going to be my first acoustic and I don't need an expansive Yamaha just yet, lol.

Bring it home let it be there a few days, a week maybe then get it tuned. Assuming it's a good piano that is and you bring it home. If it's playable as is do that first and wait into a season change if you get them there ? Here we are almost into the fall season, I would not tune a piano right now here but wait till mid Sept, for instance ( and am doing just that, though I touch mine up from time to time anyway).
David

[hfmadopter]

I like Chopin very much, but Bach is probably my favorite. Bach gives me the feel of 'you can calm down, take a taste of class at its best'.

I have this on my phone and I listen to it every morning while reading a book on the way to work on the bus.

Chopin makes me think back of my past and how it really didn't matter what sad things happened, the thing that matters is that I'm here now. But mostly it makes me intrigued.

Beethoven's Fur Elize makes me think I'll play the song for the crush who rejected me, lol.

Mozart brings the beast out of me; the beast of energy and flare. "I'll take on the world'.

Sclarrati gives me an otherwordly vibe and I havn't listened enough to rachmaninov to give a proper judgement. I also fail to recognize sonatas, not to mention other classical composers, but I guess that's natural since I'm an utter beginner.

Well, I'll keep you folks updated on the acoustic ordeal^^. Can't wait until wensday, lol.

Bach could become your best friend when it comes to piano !!!

[ranniks]

Background of the piano:

The seller wanted to form a place where musicians of all kind could play, but he doesn't play the piano, but wanted it there so others could play it. Since no one does, he is selling it.

A very helpful person ( ) told me the piano is a console upright. The teacher thinks the piano is fine (he probably has played on it) and if I can play beautiful acoustic songs on it, then I'll just take it.

Ironically I'll be paying 325 euros less going with this acoustic (costes of tuning and transfer included) than with the digital piano.....

I do hope I'm making the right decision going with this piano if it pleases me (touch/tone).

[ranniks]

Guys, I played on it and I thought it was awesome!



That's a picture I took. Some hammers are set different from the rest. Is that because it hasn't been tuned for a year? Also, When I played some other keys, some of the other hammers were set the same way as in the picture. I'm not sure if they go back in line after a while? Shouldn't the hammers be in a perfect line next to each other? When I played the piano, most of the keys, if not all sounded great. Just one or two or three did not, and coincidentally they were the ones with the hammer out of line.

I met the owner today and he told me he bought the piano from an old couple. He hasn't played on it for a year orso. I thought it was strange that the hammers were placed that way. And when I played the keys corresponding with the hammers, they sounded different. If that makes sense.

Touch wise it was pretty cool. I loved it! The sound was good too. I was able to play all the songs I knew on it and also a c scale.

Specs:

Alexander Herrmann
Height: 109cm / 49 inch
Lenght: 149 cm/ 59 inch
Depth: 51 cm / 21 inch

Is that still a console or is it an upright? not sure.

Either way I think I've found my acoustic piano!

What's up with the hammers though?

[hfmadopter]

49" would be considered an upright really, without the console or certainly the so called spinet designation. Consoles range from 40-44 inches.

The hammers are probably sticking or else they need backcheck adjustment ( hammers resting where they backcheck to when you play vs on their rests or near their rests. Sometimes just playing can bring it out of this condition. My thought is the piano should sound on the mellow side of bright. I see the felts are grooved and maybe compressed a bit which would brighten it up if anything though. They could use voicing but if you are happy with the overall sound don't pay to have it done. When voicing, a tech would sand the hammer felts down to smooth and round again and maybe pick below the surface a bit to get an even sound across the whole keyboard. No need to pay for that if you are happy with the tonal quality.

The sound that is off now could be , most likely is, because those hammers are not throwing against the strings correctly from the position they are in. Not to mention a little tuning. But tuning and those hammers being out of place are not one in the same thing. So in other words, this could cost a bit more money to get straightened out than the cost of just a tuning, though it may well come under regulation . But uprights tend to do this more so than grands because of the position of the hammers being upright and a grands laying down, they really don't have to be very sticky on an upright for them to not return fully and that's most likely what is going on vs the action being worn out, for instance.. If just sticking a bit you can probably lightly pull the hammers back into place. If there is a mechanical problem then probably not able to lightly pull them back into place. Another possible cause is one hammer is rubbing against it's next over mate. Just touching enough to hold it back from returning. Sometimes the hammer shanks get a little wrp in them or curve pushing the hammer itseld out of alignment. Without physically seeing the piano in person I can't really say which situation is the cause.

If you feel uncomfortable about this call a tech and see what he has to say ( you need one for tuning anyway, maybe he will come out and have a look for you). Where I do my own work I would not hesitate to tackle this as long as those stuck hammers move and the keys are not stuck as well. Although I tend not to work on uprights anymore.

One last thing. Tuners/techs often have several contacts for used pianos they have worked on if they don't  even have one themselves they may be rebuilding or some such thing. That's how I got my grand piano was through my original tuner, he was doing a partial rebuild on it in his basement. The second tuner I used rebuilt pianos as part of his living, still does. When I get stuck on something I still call him, mostly for advice. Chris and I are friends, he and his wife had been to recitals of mine and myself and my wife to recitals if his etc.., though quite in the past at this point ( heck my oldest daughter was ready to graduate high school about then now her second son is graduating college this year !).

[ranniks]

49" would be considered an upright really, without the console or certainly the so called spinet designation. Consoles range from 40-44 inches.

*Sigh* you were right David, it is a console probably. I measured it wrongly. Need to get them glasses soon (my eyesight has reduced lately). The acoustic I'm buying is 43 inches, so a console aye. Not that that matters to me much. I mean, it is an acoustic and it beats a digital if I want to play classical (according to my future teacher). But I loved the way I could play on it and it certainly pleased me.

The hammers are probably sticking or else they need backcheck adjustment ( hammers resting where they backcheck to when you play vs on their rests or near their rests. Sometimes just playing can bring it out of this condition. My thought is the piano should sound on the mellow side of bright. I see the felts are grooved and maybe compressed a bit which would brighten it up if anything though. They could use voicing but if you are happy with the overall sound don't pay to have it done. When voicing, a tech would sand the hammer felts down to smooth and round again and maybe pick below the surface a bit to get an even sound across the whole keyboard. No need to pay for that if you are happy with the tonal quality.

Good thing to know. I thought it was something alarming. Either way, when I have the tuner come over I'll ask what that is and what price he could set that straight.

The sound that is off now could be , most likely is, because those hammers are not throwing against the strings correctly from the position they are in. Not to mention a little tuning. But tuning and those hammers being out of place are not one in the same thing. So in other words, this could cost a bit more money to get straightened out than the cost of just a tuning, though it may well come under regulation . But uprights tend to do this more so than grands because of the position of the hammers being upright and a grands laying down, they really don't have to be very sticky on an upright for them to not return fully and that's most likely what is going on vs the action being worn out, for instance.. If just sticking a bit you can probably lightly pull the hammers back into place. If there is a mechanical problem then probably not able to lightly pull them back into place. Another possible cause is one hammer is rubbing against it's next over mate. Just touching enough to hold it back from returning. Sometimes the hammer shanks get a little wrp in them or curve pushing the hammer itseld out of alignment. Without physically seeing the piano in person I can't really say which situation is the cause.

I'll try that, and hopefully the tech can think of something as well and is as capable as you are!

If you feel uncomfortable about this call a tech and see what he has to say ( you need one for tuning anyway, maybe he will come out and have a look for you). Where I do my own work I would not hesitate to tackle this as long as those stuck hammers move and the keys are not stuck as well. Although I tend not to work on uprights anymore.

Exactly! Hopefully the tech thinks as you do.

One last thing. Tuners/techs often have several contacts for used pianos they have worked on if they don't  even have one themselves they may be rebuilding or some such thing. That's how I got my grand piano was through my original tuner, he was doing a partial rebuild on it in his basement. The second tuner I used rebuilt pianos as part of his living, still does. When I get stuck on something I still call him, mostly for advice. Chris and I are friends, he and his wife had been to recitals of mine and myself and my wife to recitals if his etc.., though quite in the past at this point ( heck my oldest daughter was ready to graduate high school about then now her second son is graduating college this year !).

I didn't know that. The thing I love about used pianos is that they can just be tuned or slightly modified and you have a good working piano that can last a lifetime.

[hfmadopter]

Some consoles have really nice tone. I've never heard a good spinet (Shorter than consoles). Consoles may lack a bit of volume compared to what I'm used to ( lift the top on a 6 ft grand piano and play up a storm it just reverberates out there in front of you, even my 5'9" really resonates). I had a friend whos daughter played a console. It was a brand I don't have high regard for but darned if that thing didn't sound very good and had decent action as well. But you wouldn't fill a recital hall with that sound.

That piano could serve you very well but do not spend a fortune on it's repair as there are plenty around I'm sure. Get that tech over there if he will come and listen to what he says. But you are correct, a decent acoustic can last you a lifetime. 2 years from purchase a digital is , well, a digital worthless in terms of dollar value and probably technically outdated. But they have their place for sure and are gaining ground every day.

[ranniks]

Some consoles have really nice tone. I've never heard a good spinet (Shorter than consoles). Consoles may lack a bit of volume compared to what I'm used to ( lift the top on a 6 ft grand piano and play up a storm it just reverberates out there in front of you, even my 5'9" really resonates). I had a friend whos daughter played a console. It was a brand I don't have high regard for but darned if that thing didn't sound very good and had decent action as well. But you wouldn't fill a recital hall with that sound.

Well, since it's just me and my 6 by 4 meter room, i think I should be alright. Besides liking the action of the console, the touch of it was really nice as well.

That piano could serve you very well but do not spend a fortune on it's repair as there are plenty around I'm sure. Get that tech over there if he will come and listen to what he says. But you are correct, a decent acoustic can last you a lifetime. 2 years from purchase a digital is , well, a digital worthless in terms of dollar value and probably technically outdated. But they have their place for sure and are gaining ground every day.

Well, I don't mind spending just a little bit extra for this console. I was willing to spend about 1.5 grand on that digital and this acoustic will be under that including repairs and transport which is just awesome.

I'll be spending about 985 -1210 dollars including lessons for a month, a decent bench (new), transport and tuning and hopefully the repairs as well. But the piano sounded just great, so I don't think so.

It seemed well suited to me as a starting piano, so I think I'm set. Now if I just could get it to my house before I start my first lesson....

Also, listen to this:

Same brand as the console I'm purchasing, but I'm not sure at all if that is an upright or a console like mine .

[ranniks]

I have a question regarding maintenance.

In holland, in the summer, it's either really hot in my room or just normal temperature (so not hot, but not extremely cold). This summer we did have a few heat waves, but 90% of the time it was just normal weather (not hot).

In the winter it's either really cold, or just normal temperature (which in winter terms is actually not super cold or cold, just a temperature where you could wear a t shirt).
(last winter it rained a lot, not a lot of snow, a week of cold, that's it).

I can't have the piano in the living room, so it has to be in my room. My room is about 24m^2 or 5 meters width and 4-6 meters tall. I have one window (the piano will be 5 feet away from that) and a radiator in my room ( I won't have that on during the winter, so it will just say cold the radiotor).

I read that humidity and temperature affects the piano. Will the piano being in my room break/damage it in a short amount of time? I'll have it tuned twice a year if possible on good times (september for first perhaps, like you suggested David).

This piece sounded great as well:

[hfmadopter]

[quote author=I can't have the piano in the living room, so it has to be in my room. My room is about 24m^2 or 5 meters width and 4-6 meters tall. I have one window (the piano will be 5 feet away from that) and a radiator in my room ( I won't have that on during the winter, so it will just say cold the radiator).

I read that humidity and temperature affects the piano. Will the piano being in my room break/damage it in a short amount of time? I'll have it tuned twice a year if possible on good times (september for first perhaps, like you suggested David).

This piece sounded great as well:



[/quote]

Damage happens not so much from hot or cold. Hot to cold can have a significant effect on tune.

Damage is more likely to occur due to very extreme humidity or dry conditions. Keeping temp consistent will help keep the piano in tune. Keeping humidity in check will help the piano age well without damage ( high humidity can delaminate things, warp sound boards etc and very dry, like wood stove in the room kind of dry can cause cracking of the sound board, glue joints to loosen etc.) Large shifts in temp from a room maybe 80 deg during the summer to one 55 in the winter will change tune some. The shorter the strings the greater the reaction, expect a console to be effected more quickly than say a 9 ft grand piano for instance..

House interiors with no ac in the summer tend to get humid and hot ( we tend to run humid here in the summer anyway). In the winter dry and cool which can cause some misconceptions. On whole the wood of a piano likes 50% humidity ( it's not going to kill the piano to live off the exact specification, 40%-65% would even still be pretty ideal), the strings, soundboard and harp a consistent temp.. With the heat on in a house think about a pan of water in the room. In the summer if possible think air conditioner in the room if your area is hot and humid then. A hygrometer isn't a bad idea so you know what the humidity is at but not essential ( also inexpensive to buy from places like amazon.com).

Also I'm speaking in terms of ideal conditions not absolute. Obviously the piano hasn't lived it's life that way entirely, nobody's really does except those with climate control and or a climate control system for the piano specifically.

[ranniks]

Bought the acoustic!

Now I've got to wait until thursday to have it in my home. I called some piano movers and I'm paying a decent amount to get it to my room upstairs.

Somewhere in my mind I know something is going to go wrong:

a) Pianomovers can't get it upstairs
b) Slim chance of seller of the piano ripping me off (doubt it though; the old man seemed kind and honest+he knows my teacher apparently)
c) Pianomovers drop the piano or something and I'm screwed
d) Insert something bad

Me owning a decent acoustic piano just seems out of the realm of possibilities. I'll pray to God to watch over the piano and have it safely at my home.

The total costes are:

400 euros: piano
345 euros: transport (don't ask, it's ridiculously expensive here and I''m not gonna carry it or let it be carried by people I know risking injuring them or the piano)
Tuning: 60-70euros (after a week?)
Additional repairs: I hope just 70 euros (the hammer problem, but I don't think it is a problem at all 0.o)
Piano chair: 30 euros
Lessons 1 month: 80 euros

Total: 925 euros

And that is still less than the 1030 euros I was willing to spend on the ydp 161! And that all is yet 25% of the kawai upright new, lol.

PLEASE PLEASE LET IT ALL GO WEL, PLEASE!

I just honestly hope the hammer thing is just normal because it wasn't played on for some time and it will go back as normal......

[hfmadopter]

Don't over think this at this stage ! You know you like the piano, you know you like the action of the piano and you know you like the overall tonal quality of the piano. The rest will work out. And aren't professional piano movers insured over there? So don't worry, it will get delivered in one piece, maybe the hammers will even fall back in place.

You can pray to God if you like, not sure he cares about pianos though, LOL!! If this is all meant to be then maybe you wouldn't even have come this far otherwise.

Stay calm, don't imagine things.

David

[ranniks]

I hope so David. Well, I got a day free from work for tomorrow (I have an appointment at a retirement home (volunteering)). It really clashed well. So now it's possible for me to actually be there when the movers bring the piano here.

In the unlikely case of the piano actually being delivered in one piece in my room and functioning well, I'll be very, very happy. My teacher rescheduled my first lessson to friday because they were rebuilding something at his home. So it all clashes well even more.

I'm going to try to master a few songs in my first month:

- Harry Potter's theme song (I love hp.....read all books but refuse to watch the last few movies because of my favorite character's (snape) demise.......
- Very basics of a few classical pieces.......

I'm definitely going to practise every single day!

[hfmadopter]

It will all go fine.

[ranniks]

IT GOT HERE!

They couldn't get it over the stairs sadly (stairs were not straight) and the window was too small for it to fit through. I was really disappointed at first, but I guess it couldn't be helped.

It's now in the living room. I asked my parents and I could practise an hour everyday on it. It's also not against the wall of the neighbours.

Pictures:





The spot is good I suppose. It is next to a warmer though and a window! Will keep the warmer down at all time and the window will be closed at most times as well probably.

I counted the keys and I counted 85 0.o? Is that going to be a problem? Also I've tested the action again and even the hammers which stood weird sound good. Just need some tuning I guess.

Since it didn't go up the stairs I got money left for more lessons/decent piano chair.

David, you were right! Everything went just excellent!

[outin]

I counted the keys and I counted 85 0.o? Is that going to be a problem?

No it's not a problem, I don't think I have ever used the ones at the far end anyway

You'd better get that proper bench/chair as soon as possible.

Have a great time with your new piano!

[hfmadopter]

IT GOT HERE!

David, you were right! Everything went just excellent!

I though I counted 88 keys in your photos unless I went astray ( could be, not getting any younger), maybe recount every key black and white and see if you come up with 85 again..

FWIW I like adjustable benches personally, though often I'd enjoy some back support from a chair style seat ( sometimes I put in 5 hours in a day on weekends in about 3 sessions, that's a lot of bench time with no back support ).

Good news though either way, enjoy !! When does the tuner arrive ? I'll be curious about his comments.
David

[ranniks]

No it's not a problem, I don't think I have ever used the ones at the far end anyway

You'd better get that proper bench/chair as soon as possible.

Have a great time with your new piano!

Thanks so much! And I'll get a decent bench since I have a little more to spend now!

I though I counted 88 keys in your photos unless I went astray ( could be, not getting any younger), maybe recount every key black and white and see if you come up with 85 again..

FWIW I like adjustable benches personally, though often I'd enjoy some back support from a chair style seat ( sometimes I put in 5 hours in a day on weekends in about 3 sessions, that's a lot of bench time with no back support ).

Good news though either way, enjoy !! When does the tuner arrive ? I'll be curious about his comments.
David

I'll count again (for the fifth time, lol). Yeah definitely! I mean, if you play for a long time, you're going to need a decent seat. I'll look into the adjustable benches!

Thanks! And I have to call the tuner. There is this Voluntary association in Holland (or group/etc) officially recognized and when they support you, apparently you are a professional tuner. It's called "Vereniging voor Pianotechnici".

I've found a tuner for that. He asks 60 ish euros an hour for tuning and about the same for maintenance. He'll even look at the piano while tuning it, so I think I'm set.

Don't I have to wait a week before tuning it though?

[ranniks]

I've opened up the piano and the numbers end at 85. Recounted it and it did indeed say 85 at the last marked key. Maybe I'm counting wrong or something, lol.