Piano problems

[outin]

I had my first lesson after summer on Monday. It was a bit of a struggle to get my head together once again, but I was able to play something before we started on new pieces. I instantly noticed how good it felt to play on her grands. Not easy since I was not used to the different feel, but it didn't feel like the struggle I have at home and the only tension I got was from my nerves. After the lesson I had a very different feel on my hands and fingers, they were tired but more relaxed than they ever feel after my practice session at home.

I am now beginning to think that I am just incompatible with my piano. I have struggled with playing and pains ever since I got it last August. It was regulated a bit in May and the pains stopped but I still cannot play without tension in my hands, neck and shoulders.

I have been blaming myself and that I just need to learn how to play correctly and things will get better. But I can't learn because whatever my teacher teaches me is fine at her place but completely falls apart when I get home. So I am all the time adjusting things without being able to concentrate on the music. My piano is supposed to be good so why does it not work for me? I may be clumsy and have bad memory, but I am not totally stupid. This Monday my teacher told me to play something in a different way and she only had to show me once and I could do it without trouble. I perfectly understood why I must do so because it sounded so much better. Then 2 hours later at home I tried to practice that piece and it sounded really bad. What then usually follows I try to make it sound better and end up doing it in a different way. And the week after we start again correcting the wrong technique. Maybe my teacher thinks I don't really practice but I rarely practice less than 1h a day. Strangely I often do better after a week I haven't been able to practice much. Well, this time I decided to just not care about how it sounds and just keep doing what she told me to...

The problems with wrist pain now returned also. I got rid of those by avoiding lifting my wrists but to get the proper touch I will need to be able to do that to let my thumb play more relaxed. I can better use my wrists if I sit further away or higher. But when I sit higher I get back pain and when I sit further away my arms and shoulders get tense... So it's an endless struggle with ergonomics.

I have already decided to sell this one and buy my dream piano, but after some calculations I will have to wait until next spring. It's quite an investment even if I get a good price for this one. Since my next piano will not have the silent feature I will also have to get a digital. Right now I feel like I will not touch another Yamaha, so I have seriously considered some of the new Kawai models. I could even buy one right now just to get a break from my present piano, that is the level of my frustration with it at the moment.

I don't say I haven't progressed at all, I am sure I have and so my teacher tells me, but for the amount of time and hard work I have invested I sincerely think it shouldn't be quite this difficult. Or am I wrong and I should just stick with it? Can pianos (and people) really be that different or is it just an excuse for lacking any muscle control to learn to play properly?

[hfmadopter]

I can not and will not make a judgement call on your playing and or on how you and your piano meld together. I can say that yes, pianos, one from the next can be very different. I don't have to tell you that though, you already have personal experience with your teachers piano and your own.

One other thing, one session to the next can be different as well. I remember being with my teacher many years ago and doing marvelous things and getting home where it fell apart. Some of that is the energy of the moment sort to speak. I can play a new piece wonderfully if my wife is in the room to hear it and the next with her not there it's just so so. If my sister in law is around just forget workng on a new piece of music, her presence just plain derails me.

My own grand piano has light action, I weighted the keys to have more resistance. My old upright I had many years ago now was a bit sluggish. It wasn't that the keys were so much heavy as just slower responding compared with a grand ( most grands I've played, which some were heavy and some light action).. My teacher had a Steinway, the keys had resistance but accurate, trills went wonderfully and got home turned to mush. Had to have a grand, I just did and so ended up with one.

Also you should know that it is possible to weight keys for less resistance ( would take a tech willing to do this for you and  of course costs money). Reweighting doesn't always mean more accuracy. Grands have a purpose besides their style. Choose carefully if you go down that road to be sure you get what you want.. My personal grand piano is a 30 year work in progress ( I do most of my own work on my piano) ! My personal feeling is grand pianos are worth investing in. NOt everyone can, even I did bartering and a bunch of extra work to get mine which was a partial rebuilt one.

To me digitals are good " also have" kind of pianos. Or if a person gigs a lot. To me they don't substitute for an acoustic, though many people would argue that point and so be it.. Also their silent mode is a great thing to have, play with head phones you're the only one listening, wonderful. I prefer a stage piano as a digital, Kawai MP 6, Yamaha C33 type pianos are professional grade, hook to sound systems etc.... At that level they begin to be worth including but not substituting for an acoustic.

All my own personal view or experience,
David

[outin]

Thanks again for your support. I feel after a year I have tried everything possible, the key resistance was changed in May and it did make some difference, but even the tech said that it was not very heavy to begin with. Changing it made it obvious to me that the key weight was not the problem, but something else, a stiffness that only goes away when I play with the pedal or play in the very high end of the piano. My teacher says her Yamaha is not light to play but it does not feel very heavy to me. The other one is light and I sometimes feel it's a bit too light, some pieces are more difficult to play with it.

I started with a stage piano and I didn't really like it.I did not have a  proper stand so first it was not very steady. I made a stand myself and it was better. But I have noticed that I don't really like the digital piano sound so I don't think I would ever connect it to my speaker system or computer, I would just practice with the headphones. Something with as piano like action as possible would be best.

When I talked to my tech he said the silent system does change the way the piano feels to play even in acoustic mode. Maybe I am over sensitive to that too and it affects my playing. So no more "hybrids" to me, I'd rather have a normal piano and another one for digital practice.

Sometimes I think I should just stop lessons and keep playing by myself the way I can and not care if it sounds like crap. I really don't care for playing to anyone else, I never had any desire to perform. But still I don't like this option because for me making beautiful sound is the essence of piano playing and just being able to play through pieces is not enough.

But it's not in my nature to give up when trouble arises, just keep on  looking for solutions. So I guess I just have to keep on trying and hoping I will make slow progress regardless of how I am able to practice at home. And then get another piano as soon as I can afford it and hope it makes a difference. At least this time I will be able to play on the piano before and choose the one I want and not just get something delivered from the dealer. When I was buying this one I needed the piano soon, had not played on an acoustic piano for decades and also the one I played at the shop did not have the silent system installed. I tried another model with the silent system. I thought any good quality piano is good enough and obviously it's not. I'm just glad I listened to the seller and bought something that will be pretty easy to sell and does not lose value as much as the cheaper ones:)

[hfmadopter]

Sounds to me like you know exactly what you want to do. Time to activate a plan ! If you need an interum or an "also" digital piano that has action at least something like a grand piano has look for at least GH action or equivelent technology. And try some out before you buy. You already know that you will not get true string harmonics sound from a digital, it's not possible with acoustic performing hundreds of stray sound waves per minute. It's just a different sound.

So do you think you will look for a grand piano ?

I'd keep the lessons going at least till you really know how to study new music on your own.
David

[outin]

I won't stop the lessons because I think I have found a teacher who will not give up on trying to improve my playing, she's very firm and won't let me get away with anything. It can be tough but I think that's what I need.

I would be willing to pay max 3000 euros for a good digital piano, I hope that's enough to get one with decent action?

I have already found a grand piano that I want (well, not exactly the piano, but the brand). I have visited the piano factory and tried a few and when I am ready I can go again and choose one that I want. I hoped to be able to do it this Autumn, but I decided that I would not like to pay so much to the bank so I need to save a bit more money. Also I the place where I work may be different in January and if it's far away that means I might want to move. It's a bit easier without the grand...

I do feel better today because the wrists don't ache anymore and I was able to play much more relaxed. Maybe that was not just from playing, I do get these aches in my joints and muscles every now and then. To be honest if I consider all the physical handicaps I have then starting the piano might not have been the best of ideas, but it's too late to back out now

[hfmadopter]

You can get a nice Kawai with wooden keys for less than that. The CE 220 is one such model, though that's a full digital console style piano with wood case. It's not a stage piano. Not sure what you are looking for if to do this. In US dollars it sells for $1899, not sure how that works out for you, I know it's less than 3000 euros but I don't know your piano value there vs here.

In a stage piano, Kawai's new EP7 should be hitting the stores. I know you would like to stay clear of Yamaha but their GH3 hammer system might suit you. My personal choice is the Kawai MP6 incidentally ( an MP 10 would be in consideration maybe).

As stated earlier you need to try them out anyway, no need to speculate too deeply into this now but your euro amount should be more than enough yes.
David

[chopin2015]

Yeah, some kawai are really nice, I like their grands. Fancy action!! I really like the Yamaha U3 uprights. Their action is similar to that of the higher end grands, but touche, a grand piano action is different that a compact piano regardless. Do you like heavy action? I feel like yamaha has the lightest, kawai is medium and steinway is heavy. Which one?

[outin]

Yeah, some kawai are really nice, I like their grands. Fancy action!! I really like the Yamaha U3 uprights. Their action is similar to that of the higher end grands, but touche, a grand piano action is different that a compact piano regardless. Do you like heavy action? I feel like yamaha has the lightest, kawai is medium and steinway is heavy. Which one?

I simply haven't had a chance to play on many pianos so it's hard to tell.

I would think I benefit from the lighter action because of my tension problems and my thin (not very muscular) hands and fingers. The grand I am planning to get next year was quite light in action. Then again I find it bit difficult to adjust to the other grand of my teacher because it is very light.

I don't understand why people say Yamahas are light, because that's what I have (U1). I do wonder if adding the silent action messes with the touch of the piano...

[chopin2015]

What grand do you play on right now at your teachers? It is just fact, yamaha has a consistent action, easy to adjust to the whole piano without having to spend alot of time with it, but steinway, each key feels like it has it's own quirks. What grand were you thinking of getting? I have no more suggestions, just curious about your situation.

[outin]

What grand do you play on right now at your teachers? It is just fact, yamaha has a consistent action, easy to adjust to the whole piano without having to spend alot of time with it, but steinway, each key feels like it has it's own quirks. What grand were you thinking of getting? I have no more suggestions, just curious about your situation.

My teacher has a Yamaha and another one that I never remember what it is (not a well known brand). I just pick one or the other when we start.

I'm planning to get an Estonia 168 I loved them immediately when I tried them. Just felt like it was made for my hands.

[chopin2015]

Very interesting! I have never played on one. I have a chickering 5'2 piano, restored, and the action is very heavy. I like it for playing on other grands, it has a beautiful voice.  I like the safe Yamaha, their sound doesn't lie. Estonia reminds me of chickering though. Something that will sing beautifully because they are well crafted, while most cheaper pianos are only able to produce loud sounds that are confusing to the piano player, effecting performance and even worse, inhibit how you learn.

[hfmadopter]

My teacher has a Yamaha and another one that I never remember what it is (not a well known brand). I just pick one or the other when we start.

I'm planning to get an Estonia 168 I loved them immediately when I tried them. Just felt like it was made for my hands.

The search is over then, it's just a matter of making it happen ! When you can sit at a piano and feel the way you did with this Estonia then you found your piano, if to buy one new. The search might need to continue if you needed to look for a used or reconditioned piano to save some money.

[hfmadopter]

Very interesting! I have never played on one. I have a chickering 5'2 piano, restored, and the action is very heavy. I like it for playing on other grands, it has a beautiful voice.  I like the safe Yamaha, their sound doesn't lie. Estonia reminds me of chickering though. Something that will sing beautifully because they are well crafted, while most cheaper pianos are only able to produce loud sounds that are confusing to the piano player, effecting performance and even worse, inhibit how you learn.

Probably 30 years ago now I played on a 6ft Chickering in a night club at a local  gulf club . It was where the company I worked for was having their Christmas party that year. 200 guests, the boss had been to one of my recitals and asked if I would play at the party. A few of us who could play instruments sometimes put on a little performance at these parties. One year  a guitarist, another me on the piano etc. Anyway, I felt it was a very nice piano. I played as I recall 5 or 6 pieces on it that night. One ws Grillen, one I don't recall but it was classical, another was Fur Elise, Music Box Dancer, my arrngement to the Theme to Ice Castles and my arrangement to Chariots of Fire. I got a standing O from my co workers and spouses, exciting ! I thank the Chickering and my teacher I had back then for being able to pull this off.

 Never under estimate the power of Fur Elise incidentally. I recieved numerous compliments on that piece over the years including at this party. I guess people just know it and can relate.

[outin]

The search is over then, it's just a matter of making it happen ! When you can sit at a piano and feel the way you did with this Estonia then you found your piano, if to buy one new. The search might need to continue if you needed to look for a used or reconditioned piano to save some money.

Unfortunately a used one is not an option here. The pianos of this quality have only been made at the company for 10 years or so and there aren't many in my country (there's no dealer). So I will have to get a new one. But the bright side is that I can go to the factory and choose one from several pianos. Just need to save a bit more money...

[hfmadopter]

Unfortunately a used one is not an option here. The pianos of this quality have only been made at the company for 10 years or so and there aren't many in my country (there's no dealer). So I will have to get a new one. But the bright side is that I can go to the factory and choose one from several pianos. Just need to save a bit more money...

Yes, I understand. My thought was if you needed to buy used you might need to look into another brand besides Estonia. However, I knew from previous posts that your real interest is in that new Estonia. Anyway, the U1 just doesn't seem to satisfy you and you love that Estonia.

Best of luck to you in aquiring one. Exciting !!

Still in Maine here. We have kind of gotten blown off the lake, sort to speak. Guess the wind is up till Sat morning now.

Off topic I know, so I'll move on now !