Rachmaninoff corelli variations (for college audition)

[chapplin]

Hi all, I'm posting the beginning of my work on these variations. I've been working for a little more than 1 month. And the auditions are in march 2013, so there is time to make this work. I'm hoping to do atleast the first 5 variations, since you only get 20 minutes to perform 4 pieces, I can't really afford anything else.

What do you think about it, it's only in the beginning stages, I know. But is there any musical value to it at all as it is now, and what advice would you give me? (i.e tempo, pedal marks, theme not lining out good enough etc.)

I skipped the second variation since I cannot play it through "fluently" enough for it to sound right.

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Edit: New video down the thread V

[emill]

hello ....

I will never dare even comment on the "technical aspects" of your playing as I am not a pianist but only a part of the general audience enamored to classical piano for decades now.  I have always liked this Rach variations to Corelli's theme and my favorite is the one by Matsuev.  Let me just say that it is a GOOD start and what I like most is the slower tempo you are building on.  GOOD LUCK!!

emill

[chapplin]

Thank you emill I will continue to work on this, and I hope to post something more musical in a few months. Take care

[martijnathome]

Hi,

First of all, so brave to post a recording in the beginning stadium of practice. That's really amazing... I'm currently working on the Corelli variations as well. I started about three weeks ago, and had two lessons since. I love the piece, but it's going to be a struggle...  I watched the video carefully and hope I can help you out a little. By the way, sorry if my English isn't so good at times. And also I'm working on it as well, and am struggling a lot, but I have some great guidance by my teacher. So those are tips that helped me out so far... So please don't feel offended with all the things that come, I reeally like to help out :-)...

The first thing I noticed was about the pulse. I think if you work on that, it will definitely be easier to deal with the piece musically. It was very hard for me to follow the music. The pulse should go on and on. It's hard but you really should feel it like some kind of a heartbeat. I practice this away from the piano. My teacher asked me to walk on the music, and it helped a lot to get to feel the pulse inside of you. The music will be a lot more steady. Also be careful not to slow down to much at the dimenuendo's. Keep on playing.

The second thing, is the fingering. This piece is like a puzzle. There are so many voices going everywhere. There are many notes you have to hold throughout. There are only a few places where it's not possible to do so... It definitely is easier to work on this piece if you spend a fair amount of time on fingering. Those are two general things to work on. I'll try to go more in detail now...

Theme: it should sound better when the pulse is right. Try to treat the upper voice as if it was a human voice. Try to look at the phrasing... The notes should sound long. It might help to sing the melody.

Var I: here the pulse is so important. Try to play it in time, and give every note the correct value
The sixteenth notes should go on and on. You tend to play the second note of each group very late.  Also the inner voice is a bit loud. Be carefull with especially the high notes, they break the melody line. Also try to hold on to the melodic long notes. It's possible to keep them. I try to practice without pedal to be sure the melody keeps on flowing. I do love the low voice though...

Var II: You didn't play it, so I'm not sure how far you are. I think a good start is so important. I had to change many a things and it costs time, I can tell. But it suddenly was a lot easier to play. I spend a lot of time to play the outer voices together i.e. the staccato etc. Then as you can see the inner voice should sound a little longer. That can be hard, but is very good practice in polyphony. First the fingering of the inner voice: I try to keep it constant. I play every note with my first and second finger. Second: practice the inner voice completely legato. With correct fingerings this is possible, and try to listen to the sustained notes. Definitely practice it without pedal.

Var III: also the basics. Play it in time. Count it out. It should be strict. Also you have to look at your fingerings again. Many notes should be sustained, so you have to divide some notes. For example in the 7th measure, you can play the rh. b flat and g with 5/2, and the next 3 notes (c sharp,e flat and d with 3,4, and 1 all rh.). In measure 4 you can't hold the first upper notes, but you can hold the lower two notes (c and g) by taking the next (g-b-d sharp) with r.h. It's like a big puzzle, but it's worth to have a good look at it.

I can make some more comments on the other variations next time, as soon as you're a little further.

Good luck on the piece. It's an enjoyable piece. I certainly like to work on it.

Martijn

[chapplin]

Thanks alot for your well thought response, I think I've come a little further now. I'll post a new video as soon as I'm back from my vacation.
Your tips are very helpful, the 2nd variation is coming along atleast. And when I went back to the 3rd variation looking on the sheets, I found out alot of things I was ignoring when I recorded the original video.
I'm looking forward to post my progress and what you think about it!
I'll be back to the piano in a few days, to consider what you have said and coorporate them into my practice.

See you soon.

[chapplin]

This is a new update on my progress. Am I going in the right direction or the wrong? haha...

There is alot of wrong notes, but I couldn't be bothered to take any retakes since this is supposed to be a progress thread. Sorry about that.

I incorporated the II variation this time, it's not really "in my fingers" even yet, but the point gets through I think.

I've been on vacation for a while and havn't practised on the IV and V var at all. So I havn't tried to make any improvements on those for the time being atleast. However the 4th could have gotten worse? And basically I just throw the 5th in there because I "know the notes a little".

[rachfan]

Hi chapplin,

The variations are showing noticeable progress in my opinion.  No. 5 is still nettlesome.  As you make those leaps, look quickly down at the keyboard to help guide the landings.  You'll find that it will help accuracy over time.  If you have any contrary leaps (bass leaps downward while treble leaps upward) do this: If you are left handed, look to the right to guide the treble.  If you are right handed, look left to guide the landing in the bass. Let the eyes guide your weaker hand.

No. 1 is still sounding adagio. Have you tried to move that one over the line into andante yet?

You're doing better attaining clarity in the pedal.  Remember, when it comes to passing notes in the bass, the bass will be unforgiving of blurs.  The treble will cut you some slack.  But even at that, always think clarity of figures and of line.  Your ears are everything in playing.

In melodic Russian music, particularly cantabile, Russian pianists to an extent ignore bar lines and downbeats to keep the music from sounding "square".  Again, I don't have the score here.  But when you are playing lyrical music, approach the bar line and round right over the top of it, then consciously avoid making much of the downbeat in the measure.  Think more continuous flow, long line.

On Nos. 1, 3 and 4 which are the stronger ones now, play through them with the metronome.  Anytime you stumble with notes, slow down (with no ritard showing on the score), or have to stop, it means that you don't know the passage as well as you thought.  The metronome will refuse to slow or be tentative, and will hand you a red flag instead.  Find ways to practice difficult measures like that.  Isolate them along with some leading notes and trailing notes (to keep context) and give them intensive therapy with slow practice at forte.  Watch the hands to see what's going on.  Look for awkward, excessive or inefficient motions and analyze the root cause--poor fingering, lack of anticipation in readying/positioning the hand, insufficient physical guidance motion from the upper arm, etc. Always think economy of motion.  Play hands alone to assure that each hand knows it's part. Change rhythm to dotted. Play RH loud, LH soft, then RH soft and LH loud.  

How many years have you been playing piano?  Do you study with a private studio teacher?  Or a music school teacher?  How does your teacher feel about your results so far in this piece?

Also, listen to two or three other renditions by professional artists.  The idea is not to copy them, but to inform your own vision of the music.

Keep practicing!

David    

[chapplin]

Thanks David,

I've been playing the piano for 2 years, I have a fantastic teacher. Private one.

She thinks I'm doing "ok", but it seems she doesn't like working on this piece with me, just tells me I'm doing fine and it will turn out alright.
She thinks the variations are not of any real "musical value" she tells me, just small etudes. I strongly dissagree. It's my favourite piece.
She likes to work with Chopin, as she's polish and friends with Zimerman etc, so I guess it's inevitable.
I get so many pieces by her I don't really find enough time to sit down and just work on this thoroughly.
But there is time, untill the auditions I mean, months really.

 I play the theme slow because I still feel insecure about the 1st variation in a higher tempo according to the tone production in the lower register of the piano for the melody, but I just had a major breakthrough that I think will make it sound better when I tap up the tempo.
I've started working alot with the metronome now since I got home, I think it'll be alot better in terms of fluidity soon.

I have to ask though, the 3rd var. is it supposed to be played strictly metronomical? All the different versions I've heard they move around _alot_ in the tempo, and rubatos all over it. And it's hard to know what I'm looking to do with it, and how to make it "my own", so to speak.

I'm writing down everything that has been said tomorrow, and I'll have the notes by my piano.

Will work hard!

[rachfan]

Hi chapplin,

If you've  gotten this far after two years of piano studies, I think it's great!  Your teacher is undoubtedly giving you pieces from various periods (Baroque, Viennese Classical, Romantic, Impressionistic, Modern) to help you be a well-rounded pianist. So bear with her on that.  At some point in your life, if you're still enjoying the piano you can specialize.  But before you do that, you need to experience the piano literature from all eras in order to build the best foundation and technique.

Regarding your question, no Rachmaninoff piece must be played in a precisely metronomic way.  (In fact, I don't believe any music should sound metronomic--too robotic.)  Remember, Rachmaninoff's music is Late Romantic.  So yes, it needs tasteful rubato where it makes sense to employ it.  Always think of it this way: You have to project the structure of the piece first and foremost including tempo, meter, and rhythm.  Then, having done so, when you play a passage rubato, it will be a noticeable change creating a moment of beauty for the listener.  If, on the other hand, you play a lot of rubato having never first established the structure, then the music will always sound disorganized and idiosyncratic.  So what you need to do is to superimpose rubato as appropriate over the discipline of the structure.  And with rubato, if you slow down then you must speed up or vice versa so that equilibrium is maintained.  That is, if you "rob" time (rubato means exactly that, robbed or stolen), then you must return the same amount of time to the music.  The longer you play piano, the more rubato will come naturally to you in performance.    

David

[chapplin]

It makes me smile that you think so !

Super generous of you to put your time into explaining to me all these things in such a well put way. I'll be back in a few days to post another video