Chopin Nocturne c# minor

[cas70]

For the trills in the opus posthumous c# minor nocturne should they be 32nd notes?  64th notes?  I know some are going to comment that the trills should be unmeasured, but I prefer to start out with a plan, a measured trill and take it from there later.  So what do you recommend, are 64ths doable or should it be 32nds?

[j_menz]

It's Chopin. They should be 41sts. 

[cas70]

That's completely unhelpful.

[perprocrastinate]

It's Chopin. They should be 41sts. 

I don't get the joke.

[invictious]

It's Chopin. They should be 41sts. 

I thought it should oscillate between 32nds and 64ths and then 48ths dotted!

Seriously though, it depends on your interpretation. It has to suit your tempo etc. I personally start off with a slower trill and then speed up to a fast trill and slow down the trill again.

[quantum]

Have you tried practicing an unmeasured trill?  Experimenting with the unmeasured trill could give you insight for possibilities in the organization of its rhythm.  Giving yourself such a rigid start point can lead to more frustration in the end.  What if the sweet spot for the trill changes during its execution? 

I don't get the joke.

Chopin had a fascination with for using rhythmic groupings that are not evenly divisible with the given time.  

[asuhayda]

That's a pretty rapid trill.. I would play them as fast as possible.  I would go with 64th notes.

[cas70]

Thank you.  Yes.  When I tried them this morning 64ths seemed to be what comes most naturally at this tempo.  Now I await the inevitable and tiresome comments about how Chopin trills must be unmeasured at all times and in all places.

[slobone]

Oh for goodness sake, find a recording you like on Youtube and copy what they do. That's what I do with pretty much everything these days. Seriously, why waste a lot of time trying to figure it out for yourself?

[outin]

Oh for goodness sake, find a recording you like on Youtube and copy what they do. That's what I do with pretty much everything these days. Seriously, why waste a lot of time trying to figure it out for yourself?

Hmmm... I hope you are selective when you do the copying. After all there's no quality filter in Youtube...

Maybe I should stop paying my teacher too, after all Youtube is filled with free piano lessons?  

For some strange reason I seem to enjoy the figuring out myself part...

[cas70]

Oh for goodness sake, find a recording you like on Youtube and copy what they do. That's what I do with pretty much everything these days. Seriously, why waste a lot of time trying to figure it out for yourself?

Is your eyesight or hearing so acute that you can tell whether a fast trill is 32nds or 64ths.  I can't.

[pytheamateur]

Listen to what Cyprien Katsaris has to say about trills in this piece:

[unholeee]

s'il vous plait, french on a japanese show. very helpful/. oiu oiu

[outin]

s'il vous plait, french on a japanese show. very helpful/. oiu oiu

I actually understood a few words even though I don't speak French. Maybe if I just keep watching it? 

[unholeee]

阿苏大客机阿三季度 你很骄傲

[outin]

阿苏大客机阿三季度 你很骄傲

Thanks! I agree completely!


Hoping he didn't write outin is a complete idiot...

[unholeee]

^ knockturne on wood.

[cas70]

After trying a couple of things I decided to go with the following trill in the 5th measure:  starting on F# play a 16th note triplet followed by two sets of eight 64th notes and come out of the trill with two 16th notes for the final E and F#.  Any comments?

[outin]

A question from someone who is not ready to learn this piece:
Do you generally think about trills as 16/32/64 or whatever notes? I always thought you just go by what you feel and what sounds good? Of course if you cannot do it as fast as you would like to you would need to settle for slower.

[cas70]

A question from someone who is not ready to learn this piece:
Do you generally think about trills as 16/32/64 or whatever notes? I always thought you just go by what you feel and what sounds good? Of course if you cannot do it as fast as you would like to you would need to settle for slower.

Personally, I always plan longer more complicated trills.  I'm sure there are some people who do just fine not planning them, but even then I'm sure they are drawing on years of experience with trills to sort of spontaneously plan them.

[outin]

OK, thanks. My experience with trills so far is mostly from baroque music, where ornamentation is meant to be more improvised anyway.