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Topic: 1st trascendental étude  (Read 1845 times)

Offline mussels_with_nutella

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1st trascendental étude
on: September 25, 2012, 11:48:23 AM
Ok, i don't want please any comment about "leave that piece" hahaha please

I was about to learn this myself, and saw a youtube video of a man playing it, and I was surprised at the beginning:
After the strong C hit, it comes a nice waterfall from high pitches to the lowest. This waterfall was played with two hands, but in the score appears in the "upper" score, the right hand's score.

I know it is easier if you play it with two hands (evidently), but is it impossible to play it with only the right hand as smoothly fast as with two hands?

Thats my question.

Thanks for reading and commenting :)

The video, in case there is someone that doesn't know the beginning:

4-5-6th seconds
Learning:
Liszt's 3rd Liebestraum

When a man is in despair, it means that he still believes in something
Shostakovic

Offline j_menz

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 11:41:25 PM
There is no rule that ties hands to staves.

If you find it easier with one hand, do it that way; if you don't, use two.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline danhuyle

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 04:00:51 AM
I use one hand on that descending arpeggio.
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline mussels_with_nutella

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 09:32:04 AM
Thank you for your two answers. Indeed, you are right there is "no rule", but here, intuitively, i thought Liszt had written this arpeggio for one hand (as it is an étude, we don't just play it beautifully (too) but learn), and wondered if i were right (if it is possible to play it with one hand).

Now I see there is someone who plays with one hand - it is possible hahaha Thank you!
Learning:
Liszt's 3rd Liebestraum

When a man is in despair, it means that he still believes in something
Shostakovic

Offline fftransform

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 09:55:24 PM
Do you want to play this piece as an exercise, or as a piece of music?

There is your answer.

Offline perprocrastinate

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 10:06:47 PM
Do you want to play this piece as an exercise, or as a piece of music?

There is your answer.

What if one desires both?

Offline fftransform

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 06:42:11 PM
What if one desires both?

Necessarily incommensurate.

Offline j_menz

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 11:55:34 PM
Necessarily incommensurate.

I'd have thought that half the point of the Chopin/Liszt/Alkan etc. etudes was to remove that incommensurability.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline nickus32000

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 12:15:19 AM
First off, I know Cory (the pianist in this video) and he often deviates from scores and simplifies passages. It's part of his style. Personally I find his playing on the pedantic side but he has a lot of good ideas.

It's actually easier to play this with one hand instead of two as long as you have a flexible wrist and good rotational technique. With two hands you miss the effect of a continuous legato.

This may be a little of topic but this Etude is a Prelude in the truest since of the word. Since it functions as a prelude to the entire set I would not recommend learning this by itself. Maybe couple it with #3 (paysage) which is technically one of the easier ones of the set.

Offline fftransform

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 07:15:51 AM
I'd have thought that half the point of the Chopin/Liszt/Alkan etc. etudes was to remove that incommensurability.

Then either you thought wrong or they failed.  For a given passage, if the output will be different dependent upon whether I choose to facilitate the playing in such a way that it will better-communicate my preferred interpretation, or adhere to the implied fingering so-as to train myself in whatever technique(s) the etude stresses (or purports to stress), I choose one or the other.  The questioner asked about the piece as a whole; thus by assumption I make the same choice between the two in all such passages.  If the output would be the same, no "choice between the two" exists; they are intentionally identical.  If the intended fingering facilitates intended interpretation, the same applies.

Offline j_menz

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 11:05:15 PM
Then either you thought wrong or they failed.  

A third option is that if you feel there is a choice between the two in a given piece, then you have failed, or your technique has.

Any of the three, or possibly some combination of them, may be the case in respect of any given piece.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline fftransform

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 09:53:35 PM
A third option is that if you feel there is a choice between the two in a given piece, then you have failed, or your technique has.

Please see that I covered this:

Quote
If the output would be the same, no "choice between the two" exists; they are intentionally identical.  If the intended fingering facilitates intended interpretation, the same applies.

Offline j_menz

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 01:51:47 AM
Please see that I covered this:


My apologies. I had (mis)read that as applying to the piece itself, not the ability to play it. Thanks for the clarification.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline blazekenny

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Re: 1st trascendental étude
Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 10:17:20 PM
Sure, why not going for that piece. Among the transcendental etudes are some of my beloved pieces.
However, dont you think its a little unnecessary to play this etude ? Just as with the Rach preludes, with some basic technique you could learn it in a day - Its all about the bravura and it doesnt even last one minute. Dont expect any serious hardwork on this one.
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