(Help needed) An Opportunity

[calderon]

Hi everybody, I'm new here.
I was looking for some help online and found this place. I need help because an opportunity occured and I happen to be the new owner of a C.Bechstein model III grand piano from 1881.
well, the thing is that it was put aside and neglected for 14 years (ONLY 14 as far as I know). it's out of tune, some of the keys are not functioning well and they became yellow and generally the whole thing has a lot of dust on it.

what I want to know is how much do you presume it will cost to fix it? and more than that, how much does it worth? (at it's condition and fixed).
is it worth fixing and keeping or selling and buying a new piano? (for example, I can't possibly know what will it sound like when fixed so I can't even tell if I like the sound of it).

I'll be glad for any help you can give me about it. (I was searching for some info but no one is really familiar with this piano, which makes sense since the stopped making it more than a hundred years ago!)

Thanks

[hfmadopter]

There seems to be a lack of info online about the model III specifically. This page says it's a 7'8" piano though: https://www.courtneypianos.co.uk/bechstein.html  . Bechstein is an old name and they were well built. I found video of a Model A fully restored and it sounded really nice.

So all that said, it could cost upwards of $10,000 or even more for a full restoration or it could cost a few hundred to get it up and running. Or you could get yourself into do it yourself mode as I have done over the last thirty years keeping my late 1800s Henry F. Miller going and just kind of make things happen and keep it up and running. I'm 100% sure if it has a decent bass, pin block and chassis that it could be made into a great sounding instrument though. I have no idea on it's condition from the photos obviously or of it's value as it sits vs restored. Well literally as it sits it isn't worth a whole lot but some TLC could possibly make it a decent player with moderate value too.

If you can get the serial number, sorry I didn't look to see if you posted that, you may find info at the Piano Blue Book on value. I've seen my Henry F. Miller ( same model as my own) built in late 1880's listed at $35,000 restored in a show room FWIW, as is it would probably sell for $5000 and I play it every day. Full restoration means all new hammers, new or rebuilt action, new pins, maybe pin block, restrung, sound board check and possible replacing, new paint inside and out, replace broken keys and new key tops. All new felt pieces. Most pianos don't need that to make them playable but do if you want it to be in like new condition. It all starts with totally stripping the piano down to the bare frame and then building it back up. Thus the cost, it's a huge job to do a full restoration.

That stated, my piano sounds good, plays decent and I'm not affraid to let a cat go to sleep on top of it ! However, your interest may be a full restoration. Just making the point with a bit of TLC, I bet it could be a great player..
David

[calderon]

first of all, thanks for your help.
the lack of information about this model is the exact reason i'm here! the piano's serial number is 11917. that's how i know how old it is.

anyway, what's TLC?

[hfmadopter]

first of all, thanks for your help.
the lack of information about this model is the exact reason i'm here! the piano's serial number is 11917. that's how i know how old it is.

anyway, what's TLC?

TLC = Tender Loving Care.  It could be someone will reply with more specific info for you, let's hope so !

[pianolive]

The "III" probably refers to Epoch 3 (out of five) which also matches the serial number.
Could you provide a photo of the iron frame?

[lukediv]

hey buddy,

i have no real expertise in this area, but when i was on my piano search i came across a 1889 Bechstein that looks pretty similar to yours. was in good condition for a piano that is very old but still needed much work done to make it feel like new. I'm from australia and was quoted anywhere between $10,000 and $60,000 to make it worth playing to the standard i wanted (which is pretty high because i am fairly serious about piano - not gonna be a concert pianist or anything but i wanted a top of the line piano), on top of the additional $6000 for the piano which sounded great but felt lousy. i desperately wanted the victorian era look about it, but decided against it and bought a almost new kawai.

the lesson i learned from this is that unless you have the cash to do right by the piano, because it deserves a full effort on the restoration side not just a half attempt and fix some things but not others, its not worth it.

long story short, it can be expensive depending what is wrong with it 

hope my experience doesn't dampen your enthusiasm

[chopin2015]

a piano worth restoring.

[richard black]

That serial number dates from about 1880.

It appears to be in pretty filthy condition, but if the wood is basically sound it could well be worth restoring. Depends who does it: in the UK (where I am) there are people who will do a job like that really well for about £5000 - new strings, new hammers, etc. etc. Restoring the case is extra though. As to what it's worth: in that condition, maybe £1000. Restored, about £1000 plus the cost of restoration. They can be lovely to play but no one is going to get rich from dealing in them. I own a Bechstein Model V from 1889 and love it.

[chopin2015]

Yeah, what condition is the soundboard in? If you have to replace it, it takes the fun out of it.

[indianajo]

I'm glad to see another do it yourselfer, hmfadopter, is on this board.
Depends on the price you pay how much pro work you want to pay for.  A E4000 piano you might not want to fool with as an amateur. Particularly if perfect ones of that model are E15000.  Bechstein is a premium brand, so you don't want to start something and not finish, that would be disrespectful to the heritage.
But I only paid $1000 for my 1941 Steinway console, the dealer didn't want it due to the damage to the finish by children, and I'm getting quite bold about doing it my self. Perfect ones go $6000 outside NYC, that is the top side of my model.   I tuned it seven times (first time since 1966) and I love the stability, it is only beginning to need it again after 2 years in a poorly heated house.
My Steinway is 70 years old, but it doesn't need all that stuff listed above.  Most home owned pianos don't get near enough wear to wear out pins felts, and dampers. School pianos, however, cost a lot more than $2000 if Steinway, and are beat to death by all the hours of use.  I looked at hammers and dampers when I bought mine, no visible wear or mouse damage, straight hammer shafts, solid back board, etc. The first owner played with dirty hands and left stained keys,  one treble string was broken and spliced, one key sticks.  I'm going to try to deal with the sticky key myself this year. A little felt easing, maybe a little sanding on anything binding. (It only happens at certain humitidities). I've got some music wire and am going to try that replacement, too.    
If you have time, fine. If you have money and can get it done for L5000, fine.  Here in Kentucky beat up Steinway grands are about $2000 and reconditioned ones are about $16000, so apparently it costs $14000 to restore one professionally buy the man in  Lexington.  
As far as how good a piano I want, I'm practicing Pictures at an Exhibition and all 3 movements of Moonlight Sonata, so I'm not exactly in the John W. Schaum Book IV.  

[hfmadopter]

I'm glad to see another do it yourselfer, hmfadopter, is on this board.
Depends on the price you pay how much pro work you want to pay for.  A E4000 piano you might not want to fool with as an amateur. Particularly if perfect ones of that model are E15000.  Bechstein is a premium brand, so you don't want to start something and not finish, that would be disrespectful to the heritage.
But I only paid $1000 for my 1941 Steinway console, the dealer didn't want it due to the damage to the finish by children, and I'm getting quite bold about doing it my self. Perfect ones go $6000 outside NYC, that is the top side of my model.   I tuned it seven times (first time since 1966) and I love the stability, it is only beginning to need it again after 2 years in a poorly heated house.
My Steinway is 70 years old, but it doesn't need all that stuff listed above.  Most home owned pianos don't get near enough wear to wear out pins felts, and dampers. School pianos, however, cost a lot more than $2000 if Steinway, and are beat to death by all the hours of use.  I looked at hammers and dampers when I bought mine, no visible wear or mouse damage, straight hammer shafts, solid back board, etc. The first owner played with dirty hands and left stained keys,  one treble string was broken and spliced, one key sticks.  I'm going to try to deal with the sticky key myself this year. A little felt easing, maybe a little sanding on anything binding. (It only happens at certain humidities). I've got some music wire and am going to try that replacement, too.    
If you have time, fine. If you have money and can get it done for L5000, fine.  Here in Kentucky beat up Steinway grands are about $2000 and reconditioned ones are about $16000, so apparently it costs $14000 to restore one professionally buy the man in  Lexington.  
As far as how good a piano I want, I'm practicing Pictures at an Exhibition and all 3 movements of Moonlight Sonata, so I'm not exactly in the John W. Schaum Book IV.  

Ya, it's nice to see someone who works on their own piano, course the professionals probably think we are nuts ( although I have worked with a couple of pros in the past, I don't consider myself one) !

Before you go crazy on any binding pieces in your action you might try a little talc first, plain baby powder often will do the trick. Also in the piano supply industry you can find lubes, some go on liquid and dry leaving a dry lube film and so penetrate well.. However, it sounds more like you have a hunidity problem in the house, proably summer weather swells the wood parts.

If the string sounds fine, I'd leave it, often a splice will sound more true than a replacement string of a different brand than the original. If you are going to restring the piano or a full section of the piano that's a different matter..

What are you going to refinish with ? I need to do the top of my piano which is a satin black piano and I have not decided yet what to use. I know I'm not using shellac with five cats in the house ! The problem is the satin finish actually, if it were gloss I'd use lacquer and spray it on for sure. Course I could do the whole piano in gloss but I don't want the down time. I'd like to have the top done by Christmas.

[john90]

I like pianos like that with the minimum done to them. A good polish with beeswax, missing ivory replaced, not worried in the least about a perfect colour match, ivory or plastic. The piano is 120 years old, and I wouldn't want it looking like something fresh from Asia. I would also be forgiving of the action too. With the size and mass, it should sound superb. It really depends what you want to do. Personally Richard Black's suggestion for 5000 is as far as I would go, only if I absolutely trusted the tech. Keeping the case as is. Buying an Asian grand you will loose 5K anyway straight up. If done right I think there could be little out there to compete with this, assuming the tech gives it a check before restringing etc. If it is just for occasional playing, then ask the tech for project minimum.