A pianostreet thought..

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I know whatever I/we say there will be some of us that say it's too easy and some that say it's too hard though..

Two groups?

Easy to early intermediate

Late intermediate to advanced?

Judged separately?

[chopin2015]

Nice! Good job rach for freaking ever

[outin]

I'm thinking just 1 or 2 at this stage. There will be too many of us that can't commit to preparing a larger program without there being several months prep time. I'm kind of hoping for not more than 4-6 weeks from entry to recording being submitted - but I don't know how everyone will feel about that..

A competition piece should be polished I guess...
Mission impossible...unless I can sneak the same piece to my teacher. and maybe have a holiday...

Then again would it be rude to suck? Because I really don't care about the result, it would be interesting experiment to see if I could actually learn something well if I had to. And to have winners we need losers. I'll volunteer

[ajspiano]

I have no problem with sucky end products, outin.

Rach, I feel that 2 groups would solve that problem but also complicate managing it and potentially mean more repertoire.. Which will mean that the learning phase wouldn't necessarily have everyone doing the same thing..

Also i think we need a good few participants and I'd we split up we may need twice as many - which right now we don't have (nor do I know everyone's levels)

[chopin2015]

Ok so how bout we have 10 people participate at first, (wait for 10 people) and decide the repertoire according to that. Which sucks because I have been name-dropping a lot, LOL 

 But yeah, as soon as you have 10 people, start a repertoire list? If you can edit your original post, you could start listing people under that.

[j_menz]

Irrespective of whether there are two groupss or one, I think the compulsory piece should be the same for everyone, and as "easy" as you dare.

A also suggest you just pick one and state it, with no correspondence to be entered into. Otherwise we'll never get one.  Channel the inner Hitler all good teachers have.  

[outin]

I wonder...would someone actually be capable of judging everyone as one group. So that the level of the piece would not matter but how it is delivered? Which means that a wonderful performance of something really easy could be the winner over a rather good performance of smething hard?

[chopin2015]

I wonder...would someone actually be capable of judging everyone as one group. So that the level of the piece would not matter but how it is delivered? Which means that a wonderful performance of something really easy could be the winner over a rather good performance of smething hard?

ya but those who can perform a difficult piece good should really be able to play something easy in a wonderful manner. Anyways, I have to sleep now, tomorrow is my day off and I will practice my face off! will check back to see what the easy general piece is for everyone, I agree with J menz  that you should just pick one, or have one of the judges pick one. I want to participate but have some events I am preparing for, but if the piece is truly easy, that should be fun. Most chopin nocturnes=not easy. Prelude on the other hand, or a valse. Think about it!!!:)

<3

[j_menz]

those who can perform a difficult piece good should really be able to play something easy in a wonderful manner.

So one might think, but any number of quite appalling renditions of Mozart in assorted piano competitions attest to the contrary.

[lloyd_cdb]

Why not just start with a level 4-5 piece just to see the willingness of participation?  Seeing how different levels of skill perform at something in the middle/easy range could show how much effort we need to put into splitting difficulty groups.  Just a simple trial run to see if this is at all feasible.  Regardless of the competition format, it would at least get some more performances on the forum and lead to more dialogue about improvement.  No matter how it's done, people will at least start to benefit and we can return to details on how to properly organize it for a more precise competition.

Suggestions - I think the piece should be well know with a wide range of interpretations easily available.  Interpretations from just the sheet music is one of the aspects of difficulty of any piece which can be more impactful on the less experienced.

Chopin prelude no.4 - I like this suggestion the most simply because everyone has heard it (or can hear 50 different interpretations on youtube)

Chopin mazurka op68 no3 - Also easy access to interpretations, similarly short but has a wider range in dynamics which could open it up for diverse interpretations.

Beethoven fur elise - Definitely not my favorite piece, but again, everyone has heard it.

Schumann Album for the Young - One of the first few, although a couple might be overly contrapuntal for some of the less experienced.

[outin]

Since I am not at all competetitive, learning something that sucks just to attend is out of the question...

[zezhyrule]

Since I am not at all competetitive, learning something that sucks just to attend is out of the question...

There are many great pieces in the 4-5 level range D:

[ajspiano]

OK..

So in-line with what j_menz suggested, I'm going to just decide. And, in line with what lloyd_cdb has suggested if no one likes it too bad, this is just a test run to see how it works I suppose.

Decided.

...

Tchaikovsky - Op. 39 No. 21 (Sweet Reverie) - this work will be compulsory for entrants (hope its ok with you outin?)

You can listen here - YOUtooob
You can get a score here - IMSLP direct link

PianoStreet rates the work Grade 4, however both Trinity and the ABRSM say grade 5.

I think its a good choice because while being easy enough (there's basically only one theme explored, and one basic rhythmic pattern) its also got a great deal of room to work on variation of dynamics not only as a whole but also between voices, as well as varying rubato effects - which should mean we will see some very varied performances from the group. And, being in the romantic area its probably going to fall under more peoples interest than if I'd said
"HERE! Go forth and bach bach bach bach bach bach all over the park".

.........

Additionally, entrants may (its optional) present an additional work of their own choice. The piece must exist on the pianostreet repertoire list (go here) and be within grade 3 and 7.

Voting will be done separately for each work, and if you "win" and that makes you feel good, then good for you - but absolutely no gloating..  You will be will recognised as the "best performer" of the group, this time around.. there will not be a complete ranking that places anyone at the bottom. I will name the top performer for each work, and overall - drawn from PRIVATE voting. Anyone votes that are publically posted will not be counted.

I haven't decided on a time frame yet, but it will probably be christmas.. ish? maybe by the start of january? Links to youtube performances must be PM'd to me by the set date, At which point I will post all performances in a new thread, and encourage voting from the entire forum to go on for some arbitrary length of time, like a week or 2.

I will draw up a formal post for this tomorrow and post it as a new thread, I ask people who want to join in the fun to reply to that post, also stating what their "own choice" work will be if they choose to present one... you can take a week or so to decide though, just as long as we know soon.

..........

We will go ahead with a minimum of 6 entrants, and the maximum will be 15. GET IN QUICK 

I will personally learn the work and be involved in the discussion thread.. and make my performance available for viewing, but it will not be subject to voting as I'm the organiser.. this should probably go for anyone else who runs subsequent rounds if it keeps going and I say "I'm sick of this forum responsibility nonsense!!"

Till tomorrow..   happy piano-ing.

[outin]

Tchaikovsky - Op. 39 No. 21 (Sweet Reverie) - this work will be compulsory for entrants (hope its ok with you outin?)

So you just had to pick the one romantic composer that I absolutely cannot stand 

[keypeg]

Since I went off on a tangent yesterday and people responded it, I'd like to finish it off before moving on.  Consider this as off-topic.  This made me think, and I realized that there's a lot more going on than the fact that under remediation I feel like a race car with parts strewn all over the shop floor when somebody says "wanna race?".  So these are OT (to the thread) thoughts on music and competitions.

- The idea of competition suggests there is a right way to interpret a piece - and whoever gets closest is the winner.  It negates the idea that two or three very different interpretations may be equally valid - one of them has to win and the others lose.  To me if that is true, then it takes away something from music itself.

- I've been following the competition issue ever since I heard of it.  I'm told that people are going for pieces that "judges like to hear", and going for interpretations that "judges prefer".  A number of seasoned musicians and teachers I talked to expressed a lot of concern about this. 
we also hear about the homogenization and relative uniformity these days.  And what message do new/young musicians get - will they feel free to expand their wings and really explore?

- I'm learning of the walking wounded: teachers trying to rebuild confidence of students who may have even left music entirely and are returning years later, or people giving their own tales.  Instead of learning to play music well, so that lessons were a place of growth, and maybe performing to bring across this music, these students were "judged" and it destroyed music for them.  This concerned me.  Though on Pianostreet, people have a choice of entering.  The kids who get entered by their parents, or students forced into it for any reason by their teachers, that's a different story.  So maybe the answer is right here.

I think that on a personal level the idea of competition in music has always bothered me, but that is a personal view.   To me it changes what performance is, in the sense of how you relate to your audience.  I studied with a teacher for whom the audience was a canvas; he interacted with the audience - they were not someone who judged you and whom you had to impress.  This was the number one impression that I got when I joined PS and PW: People seemed fearful of the audience whom they saw as their judge, and who would measure them.  I guess that if people can compete, and yet on other occasions can perform as artists trying to bring something across to their audience - in that case the world is still ok.

I suppose that maybe people who have taken part in competitions don't take them seriously, so it's not a big deal.  Maybe it's some extra spice to getting feedback making it more "interesting".  I'm trying to see if I can get into a different mindset.  For me it's like a foreign country.

[keypeg]

This is again on the philosophical, off-topic side to finish off yesterday's thoughts.  I apologize for the delayed response.

.... but it is something we do all the time with professional recordings ...

It is this little snippet that really stood out for me and here's why.  I have worked with three different teachers including my present one, though the others did not involve piano.  When we considered performances, it was never to judge one better than the other.  In fact, that idea was totally foreign to me.  We would look first at the music and see what it contained and what we saw in it.  If we listened to performances, it was "Why has he chosen this interpretation over here?"  "Why is he lingering over there?"  "What is it that makes this passage effective?"  "How does this tie in with how we saw the music?"  The entire idea of comparing one whole performance to another whole performance, and judging one to be better -- well, what purpose does that serve at the end?

Back on the philosophical tangent: education does a cheap shortcut to "motivation" by creating competition and this can hurt the thirst to learn.  And at this point I am writing as a former teacher who still tutors occasionally on the side.

Having gotten all that out of the way, I'll go see if I want to participate in this after all. 

[keypeg]

Tchaikovsky - Op. 39 No. 21 (Sweet Reverie) - this work will be compulsory for entrants (hope its ok with you outin?)

You can listen here - YOUtooob
You can get a score here - IMSLP direct link

PianoStreet rates the work Grade 4, however both Trinity and the ABRSM say grade 5.

Are you saying that relative beginners who have never had teachers will be competing with quasi professionals with loads of training, since there is only one piece that everyone will be playing?  Or how are you thinking this?

I suppose that the piece is "grade 4" since the notes themselves can be reached easily and it's in an easy key.  But doesn't one need a certain amount of technique in order to bring out subtlety and voices, using dynamics, touch, and timing?  The untaught person beginning the journey won't have those things.  So if you have everyone playing the same piece, are you dividing the contestants up according to their level?

Might I suggest the USD $10 idea be dropped?  Exchange rates and such are a nightmare, and for some people it is a huge amount of money.

[lloyd_cdb]

I suppose that the piece is "grade 4" since the notes themselves can be reached easily and it's in an easy key.  But doesn't one need a certain amount of technique in order to bring out subtlety and voices, using dynamics, touch, and timing?  The untaught person beginning the journey won't have those things.  So if you have everyone playing the same piece, are you dividing the contestants up according to their level?

This is where my comment comes in.  I see this as a VERY preliminary attempt at forming a more detailed competition in the future.  Should we split into 2 groups, 3 groups, 10 groups?  We don't know yet, and the only way to know is to give it a very basic shot.  If someone at grade 4 "beats" people from grade 10, what is the point of splitting?  However, if it's clear that people end up being ranked by skill level, a grouping can be figured out that would be fairer whether it be voluntary grouping or assigned groups.

In regards to one of your earlier comments, I think interpretation in life and performance is always present.  I won't comment on forced competition, but I believe voluntary competition can be quite beneficial (however, grain of salt considering I've played every competitive sport my entire life, and entered an incredibly competitive industry after schooling).  Some people struggle with finding motivation, and competition is just one pathway to accomplishing their goals.  I almost never perform and, excluding my performances before my memories are even formed, I don't think I've played for more than a group of 20 people in 15 years.  My playing is for stress relief, performance counters that goal.  On the other hand, due to the anonymity of the internet, I don't think I'll be stressed performing and being "judged" by people I probably will never meet face to face.  It might help me start to gain confidence for performing for people I actually meet in person.  Again though, I really don't expect my conceptual understanding to be applicable to everyone.

[fleetfingers]

I've opted to participate in a few things on pianostreet before, and no one followed through except me and maybe one or two others. So, I am reluctant to even get excited about something I suspect will never come to fruition.

I hope it does work out, though, and that people actually do it because it sounds like a fun idea. Things like this can be motivating to amateurs like me who want to share our work with other pianists. As far as competition goes, I understand the point that many interpretations are valid and that it's impossible to really judge art. BUT, I have recently been making a more concerted effort to connect with the listener and to make my interpretations such that it would bring out some kind of emotion or reaction in the listener, so they can connect with and understand the music. Sometimes, a desire for this end leads me to change what I would otherwise do. It would be nice to have people vote on which interpretation they connected with and would like to listen to again, rather than which one is considered "correct". If done in that way, I can see a great benefit to performers like me who would like to know from people if they liked it - why or why not. Yes, I can enjoy my art on my own, but I do like to perform. And in that capacity, how the audience reacts matters a great deal. Otherwise, I would stay in my living room and keep it to myself.

The idea to have everyone do the same piece seems best, because it makes more sense to judge that way. If everyone is playing different pieces, it is not much different than the audition room. As much as people here hate on Fur Elise, something like that would actually be perfect. Is there any way to make the entries anonymous to the voters? Does everyone on piano street get to vote, or only a select few? I agree that charging 10 dollars would deter some who would otherwise participate. Good luck with everything. It will be interesting to watch, and I hope many decide to give it a shot.

[littletune]

OK..

So in-line with what j_menz suggested, I'm going to just decide. And, in line with what lloyd_cdb has suggested if no one likes it too bad, this is just a test run to see how it works I suppose.

Decided.

...

Tchaikovsky - Op. 39 No. 21 (Sweet Reverie) - this work will be compulsory for entrants (hope its ok with you outin?)

You can listen here - YOUtooob
You can get a score here - IMSLP direct link

PianoStreet rates the work Grade 4, however both Trinity and the ABRSM say grade 5.

I think its a good choice because while being easy enough (there's basically only one theme explored, and one basic rhythmic pattern) its also got a great deal of room to work on variation of dynamics not only as a whole but also between voices, as well as varying rubato effects - which should mean we will see some very varied performances from the group. And, being in the romantic area its probably going to fall under more peoples interest than if I'd said
"HERE! Go forth and bach bach bach bach bach bach all over the park".

.........

Additionally, entrants may (its optional) present an additional work of their own choice. The piece must exist on the pianostreet repertoire list (go here) and be within grade 3 and 7.

Voting will be done separately for each work, and if you "win" and that makes you feel good, then good for you - but absolutely no gloating..  You will be will recognised as the "best performer" of the group, this time around.. there will not be a complete ranking that places anyone at the bottom. I will name the top performer for each work, and overall - drawn from PRIVATE voting. Anyone votes that are publically posted will not be counted.

I haven't decided on a time frame yet, but it will probably be christmas.. ish? maybe by the start of january? Links to youtube performances must be PM'd to me by the set date, At which point I will post all performances in a new thread, and encourage voting from the entire forum to go on for some arbitrary length of time, like a week or 2.

I will draw up a formal post for this tomorrow and post it as a new thread, I ask people who want to join in the fun to reply to that post, also stating what their "own choice" work will be if they choose to present one... you can take a week or so to decide though, just as long as we know soon.

..........

We will go ahead with a minimum of 6 entrants, and the maximum will be 15. GET IN QUICK 

I will personally learn the work and be involved in the discussion thread.. and make my performance available for viewing, but it will not be subject to voting as I'm the organiser.. this should probably go for anyone else who runs subsequent rounds if it keeps going and I say "I'm sick of this forum responsibility nonsense!!"

Till tomorrow..   happy piano-ing.

Wow!!! That is the piece that I played for my grade 4 exam in June!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh now I wish I could participate too!!!!! but i don't know how I could pay... I don't even know how you do that over the internet and I don't have any cards or whatever you need (I have no idea about all that). Oh well... I don't know.

[outin]

Wow!!! That is the piece that I played for my grade 4 exam in June!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh now I wish I could participate too!!!!! but i don't know how I could pay... I don't even know how you do that over the internet and I don't have any cards or whatever you need (I have no idea about all that). Oh well... I don't know.

Since I don't think I can force myself to study that piece, how about I become your manager instead and pay for you

[ajspiano]

Littletune (and others) - I obviously didn't make this clear before, I'm not going to deal with any kind of entree fee this time around.. I'm concerned that this will leave some people likely to not follow through (as fleet points at that is the trend) but it will also make it more open to participation from younger members such as yourself who can't access any kind of payment method... So you are welcome to join in.

We may have a paid entry event at a later stage if there is sufficient interest. I feel that in some ways it would be a little unfair to have a fee because we hardly know how it will work.

I'd very much like this to work though, so I may consider personally sponsoring it for a small prize if nils isn't interested.. Such as a book voucher or something for amazon.

Keypeg - I very much dislike that notion of "correct" performance and how competition can foster that... Or the way students can be pressured into competition and exams (I was subjected to this) Because this is optional and the "winner" here won't be decided by a single judge that shouldn't happen.. It will just be whoever people generally like the most. There is no "loser" that didn't play well enough.. Everyone's expression is their own and that is a valuable contribution.

[ajspiano]

Outin - we'll do Scarlatti next time.

[fleetfingers]

Littletune (and others) - I obviously didn't make this clear before, I'm not going to deal with any kind of entree fee this time around..

I must have missed that earlier. Sounds good. I've printed the music and will look forward to more details on when/where/how to enter a recording.

[littletune]

Thanks Ajspiano for explaining this! That sounds cool!   Then I want to join in!  

Since I don't think I can force myself to study that piece, how about I become your manager instead and pay for you

Thank you so much Outin for offering to be my manager and to pay for me!!!! That is really nice of you!   Well if you can't force yourself to play this piece we could maybe be like a duet or something and I would play this piece and you could play some other piece   i'm not sure if that is allowed but if I can I would like to help you, so you could join the competition too!  
Why do you hate this piece so much? I really loved it! Just before my exam when I was going through my exam pieces I even made myself cry with this piece   I'm not sure why... but the most embarrasing thing was that someone came in just when I finished playing with tears on my face and asked if I knew where the teacher was.   I'm thinking of posting that recording but the sound qualitly is really bad cause I had this really small camera in my pocket.  

[outin]

Outin - we'll do Scarlatti next time.

But there will always be someone who doesn't like the piece. I guess I'm too much for freedom of choice, otherwise it's like a sport competition where everyone runs the same 100m track...what's the point...?

But I'm not complaining, if it's fine with others then that's the way to go

[chopin2015]

Ok, I'm in. As for Mozart, J menz- my teacher is making me do it As far as easy pieces go, there is always more than meets the eye. Let us know what the official day is, end of december sounds reasonable to work with everything I have going on.

[outin]

Why do you hate this piece so much?

I have an unexplainable dislike for most pieces by this composer. Lately I have had a lot of trouble reading music that I don't like. Reading is really hard for me anyway and if the end product doesn't even sound nice, I get really frustrated. I am pretty overworked at the moment and a bit tired mostly, so I have trouble concentrating. I tried to force myself to work on several pieces that I didn't care for and got so stressed that I actually thought that maybe I should quit lessons. My mind often got totally blank when I was supposed to play...But can't let myself quit so I told my teacher that I need some time off those pieces and just work on music that I enjoy. So right now I don't think I can put up with this type of challenge, sorry...

[perprocrastinate]

I'm going to make a fool out of myself if I participate in the competition, but I have a question, despite having no intention in entering.

Is there any possibility of Alkan being included in the repertoire? Probably might not appeal to many people, if at all.

[scherzo123]

I agree with what Chopin134535267544537997689575 said, we should keep it small.

How ironic.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Rach, I feel that 2 groups would solve that problem but also complicate managing it and potentially mean more repertoire.. Which will mean that the learning phase wouldn't necessarily have everyone doing the same thing..

That's why they should be completely separate, and run by two different people.

[Bob]

You wouldn't have to charge or even involve Nils much.  If people didn't submit a recording by a certain date, they're out.

You could have people on here vote with the polling feature or have people private message or post who they're voting for.  Or pick credible members to be judges.

The recording board is already set.  I don't think there's anything stopping anyone from doing this.


Or do a test.  Just have people submit something like 10 seconds or a 1 minute.  See if it works on a small scale and then ramp it up later.

[chopin2015]

Please stop confusing me! I think making a fool of myself will be fun. C'mon!

[Bob]

You could ask for a video post.  Someone's going to submit a recording from somewhere else or a doctored recording.

[lloyd_cdb]

You could ask for a video post.  Someone's going to submit a recording from somewhere else or a doctored recording.

I would think we would be better than that.

[outin]

You could ask for a video post.  Someone's going to submit a recording from somewhere else or a doctored recording.

Really??

But a video can be cut as well. Maybe a tiny set of rules must be written. Is cutting allowed? How about digital altering of tone quality?

[chopin2015]

obviously not, but video should be required if performance is based on visual presence as well, otherwise check out my sound engineering skills. (just kidding)

[keypeg]

You could ask for a video post.  Someone's going to submit a recording from somewhere else or a doctored recording.

And everyone has that kind of equipment?

[ajspiano]

And everyone has that kind of equipment?

Well actually, smart phones are sufficient and pretty common..  so potentially yes.

The audition room also has a small history of doctored or just completely false recordings being posted..  either cuts, midi or just posted mp3s of a professional version...  so a video requirement is a fair suggestion.

[Bob]

Yes, there have been several hoaxes on here.  It's not such a big deal... Someone submits something fake and gets some kind of comment and the world moves on, but...  It puts a bad spin on things a bit that way.

You could make it optional.  Submit a video and prove you're actually playing.

Otherwise "Molly" the 15-year-old prodigy is going to show up and submit something awesome.  It really won't matter though if it's not someone 'known' on here. 

Anything that's just audio could be edited.   Maybe someone could submit their audio recording, higher quality, and then whatever crappy-quality video they can make just to prove they're real.

I'd rather hear something real with mistakes, something a little more amateur, over hearing polished professional performances. 

[lloyd_cdb]

Anything that's just audio could be edited.   Maybe someone could submit their audio recording, higher quality, and then whatever crappy-quality video they can make just to prove they're real.

I'd rather hear something real with mistakes, something a little more amateur, over hearing polished professional performances. 

My super-fantastic recording studio can record at CD quality, but I don't have a basic camcorder.  I guess everyone will just have to trust me...

[danhuyle]

Most pianists would know if the stuff they play is at competition standard or not. You record yourself and compare it to professional pianist playing the piece. That's how pianists assess themselves and others.

What the judges look for

- rhythm and tempo controlled
- high level of interpretation
- pedaling
- contrasts

[outin]

I didn't even consider someone wanting to cheat, I guess I just don't see the point, because if you win then it wouldn't actually mean anything. But I should know better having seen all kinds of things happen in competitions...

So obviously a video would be good. But would it be possible to send the videos to the person responsible for the competition, who would then make an mp3 file out it them. Why? First of all I may not be the only one who usually plays best when doing it spontaneously and usually in such situations am not properly attired/look like S**t.
Secondly we wouldn't want someone to win because they so cute, would we?

[j_menz]

Most pianists would know if the stuff they play is at competition standard or not. You record yourself and compare it to professional pianist playing the piece. That's how pianists assess themselves and others.

What the judges look for

- rhythm and tempo controlled
- high level of interpretation
- pedaling
- contrasts

** wonders if you actually read the thread before posting something this irrelevant to it

[lloyd_cdb]

Secondly we wouldn't want someone to win because they so cute, would we?

Then I will abstain 

[ajspiano]

** wonders if you actually read the thread before posting something this irrelevant to it

I thought the same thing..    we must be the same person!

........

..Anywho, I'm just writing up the competition thread now. Thanks for the further comments today..  I think the video thing matters or at least it will if we ever do charge a monetary entree fee for something of this nature..  for the time being is doesn't matter so much.. I'm just going to say video preferred.

[costicina]

But there will always be someone who doesn't like the piece.

..and of course, you can't play well a piece you dislike....
On the other side, that's the beauty of the idea of a piece decided by others: it could be a device  to reduce the number of competitors, since it has to be small (no more than 10).

AJ's proposal is very exciting, and I'm sure it coukld be a great contribute to vivify the pianistic content of this forum: we would have the chance to discuss more concretely about technical/musical issues, and for many of us, like me, who perform mostly for themselves and/or our family (cats-dogs included) it could be a useful challenge, helpin us to practice in a more focussed, organized way.

So thank you AJ, I'll do my best to contribute!

[keypeg]

I sight read the piece last night.  In terms of getting the notes it's "easy".  but to turn it into music requires skill.  This is something my teacher and I have discussed more than once in regards to "graded" pieces and where they're stuck in the grading system.  There were a few miniatures in "easy" literature often used by teachers which are absolute gems when played by masters.  But they become boring twap in the typical recitals because students aren't ready to do the subtle things, and teachers don't consider teaching them.  I was excited when the Chopin Em and Cm Preludes were listed, because the only thing we've managed to fix up to a decent level so far is my chord playing, and these are the two pieces that I was working on.  The present piece goes into the kind of note playing where I almost destroyed my hands self-taught since I had those motionless finger-only kinds of hands.  I guess it will be interesting to watch.

I had a misperception from the first post.  I thought the goal was to boost participation, and especially to encourage those who were the least likely to dare post their playing.  But in fact the goal is to have a limited number of people playing, and probably those who have a fair bit of training from teachers.  It should be a pleasant listening experience.

[costicina]

Then

I had a misperception from the first post.  I thought the goal was to boost participation, and especially to encourage those who were the least likely to dare post their playing.  But in fact the goal is to have a limited number of people playing, and probably those who have a fair bit of training from teachers.  It should be a pleasant listening experience.

  Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was exactly the meaning of AJ's proposal: boasting partecipation and encouraging those who, like me, don't have a training from a teacher...If it's not the case, I should reconsider my intention to partecipate 
 

[ajspiano]

The goal is to boost participation, but this is really hard to judge.. I picked a piece that was suited to the majority of the people that showed an interest in this thread but that would not be out of reach of many lower level students if they want to make the effort. I would gladly so it with something easier at another time for lower level players. This included you costicina, since while you may have a less fortunate background you have studied really difficult works - as have the majority of people responding.

That piece is meant to be easy enough but also hard enough. The majority of the piece the control between voices is in separate hands, the quiet accompaniment is off the beat and in the hand opposite to the leading melody - meaning you are very rarely/never expected to anything like varied dynamics within one hand at one time in order to produce something satisfactory.

The notes are easy enough so the main challenge will be bringing out the top and bottom voices at the appropriate times/sections. I'm also hoping that most people will actively discuss how to achieve this over the next 6-7 weeks in a "project" type thread.

I appreciate that it may not work for everyone, but in my experience playing with people better than oneself lifts your own standard, the idea is to give an intermediate level person something to work at that will make them a better pianist, and make it worth an advanced person leaning the work because there is room in this piece to really make something of it.

..and for those with less skill to see the differences between them and someone else, to get to make those comparisons about complex musical elements and talk about it with people who have all learnt the same piece, some of who can play it really really well.

Limited participation is also necessary I think because ideally people are going to listen to all the performances (rather than 1 or 2) before voting or making comment. If more than 15 people said they wanted to be in I was planning to give the surplus first option for the 2nd run, if it happens.