A question for teachers?

[thesuineg]

Do you have students of different levels of talents? A lot of teachers make it seem like some people are just without any musical ear at all while others were just born to play an instrument, but there must be like...an in between right? I'm not talking about learning pieces fast, or sightreading, but the overall ability to make a piece work when played. Also ignoring stuff like absolute pitch, synthesia, and photographic memory.
I personally think there are only talented people and untalented and there is no in between though. Sometimes people are raised in a lucky way, or they have unusually more dedication due to previous happenings in there life etc. otherwise all talented people have the same potential. So all there is personality i think anyways

[p2u_]

Do you have students of different levels of talents?

Yes, but I have to add a disclaimer. If people can love and appreciate music even passively, then in a certain sense, that's already talent. As to playing the instrument, I have students that block their own talents with different intensity. In the traditional educational system, these are often waved off as "untalented". But you know what? As a teacher, you can help them unblock themselves and see that they are just as talented as the others. If there are no clearly medical problems, then the main factor for success is that there must be motivation coming from inside themselves. One girl I had in my lessons was deaf (she enjoyed moving and experiencing the vibrations coming from the instrument), but she played some things better than people with good ears. To be honest, I've never met any untalented people. I've seen many supertalents, but they were free already, not only in music, but also in everything else.

Paul

[tranquille]

To a large extent, I agree with this, but unfortunately very few teachers see this as their role or have the skills to do this.

[lostinidlewonder]

There are some who are very uncoordinated and their progress is much slower than others. I find some people simply have no natural coordination and they must practice a huge amount to achieve small improvement, nevertheless if they are keen and helped with motivation they can improve and sometimes become aware and efficient at learning/improving coordination skills.

I like teaching severely uncoordinated students, it helps me understand my own difficulties when I face difficult music that challenges or eludes my coordination. Seeing issues that are simple for me stump others and helping them structure a solution to improve gives me tools to help my own difficulties. A teacher laughs at how easy grade 1 pieces are and eats them up without blinking, but they need to be wary not to forget that it might post great difficulty to beginners.

Funnily enough teaching uncoordinated people make me think about when I sight read through overly insane complicated music. I struggle to maintain clarity, I lose my position, I lose focus, I can't hear what I am playing etc etc, it makes me realize what it must feel for beginners and it is a very interesting connection. That the most difficult pieces certainly reflects a uncoordinated beginners view on things.



Yes there people who are very talented, I have had the joy of teaching several over the years. They eat through work like its nothing, they learn new skills and solve difficult problems on the spot during a lesson. Then there are even the rarer few who are talented, dedicated and hard working. That is a rare combination and extremely exciting to work with. I often meet talented students who are laaaaaaaaazzzzzzyyyyyyyyy, they don't realize how good they are and often rest on their laurels. Talent is strangled if you are like this.

Students that work hard and consistently make most grounds, even those that are not talented. Being talented in working hard and making consistent time for it is a better talent than anything else you could ever have. I have one middle aged student who came to me never having played any musical instrument before and she was very uncoordinated. It has taken almost 3 years of hard work but she can play around AMEB grade 2 comfortably which is a great achievement. However if we compare how she learns new movements and tackles problems she is about hundreds of % faster than when she started, even faster in some issues. This is what we focus on and get excited about, not that oh your only grade 2, so much more to go.


I'd say that the average students potential is around AMEB grade 4. If everyone worked every day for x amount of time with structured work I think that average grade would go a lot higher. The reality is however that people these days are so time poor or just simply lazy.

[keypeg]

There are some who are very uncoordinated and their progress is much slower than others. I find some people simply have no natural coordination and they must practice a huge amount to achieve small improvement, nevertheless if they are keen and helped with motivation they can improve and sometimes become aware and efficient at learning/improving coordination skills.

I like teaching severely uncoordinated students, it helps me understand my own difficulties when I face difficult music that challenges or eludes my coordination. Seeing issues that are simple for me stump others and helping them structure a solution to improve gives me tools to help my own difficulties.

.....Yes there people who are very talented, I have had the joy of teaching several over the years. They eat through work like its nothing, they learn new skills and solve difficult problems on the spot during a lesson. ...

I've juxtaposed these two parts as food for thought.  Playing music involves a number of things: physical coordination, understanding and/or a feel for the music, ability to read or remember (if it's by ear) etc.  So talent might be in one or several areas but not in others.  For example, what if a student has a very strong musical sense, but is also physically uncoordinated?  That is why I juxtaposed those two things, because they are not necessarily opposites.

A teacher laughs at how easy grade 1 pieces are and eats them up without blinking, but they need to be wary not to forget that it might post great difficulty to beginners.........

There's another thing in here that I find very important.  It's not the grade 1 pieces - it's the basic skills being learned while doing those grade 1 pieces.  I've heard from a couple of music teaches who took up a new instrument or skill, and they got an insight, "Now I know how my beginner students feel!"  One was a violinist who took up the trumpet, and after having an advanced degree in music and years of teaching and performing, was struggling to produce a coherent note and hold her instrument the right way.  It was an eye opener.  Play a simple grade 1 piece?  How about getting a sound out of the instrument - any sound - doesn't even have to be pretty?  That kind of thing.

[asuhayda]

I think it's a combination of forces per se.  As a teacher, I do my best to modify my students' lessons to fit their interests and abilities.  That's the nice thing about teaching individuals as opposed to a classroom where everyone gets basically the same lesson.

I often blame myself if a student is not progressing or showing interest.  However, unfortunately, the reality seems to be that some students simply have a higher interest level and/or ability level.  And I've had everything in between as well.

I try to get as much interest as I can out of a student.  I've had varying degrees of success with this.  But,  the way I look at it, I'm teaching some kids who just want to have fun and learn how to play a little bit and I'm teaching others who take it really seriously and want to compete or take their playing to a high level.  You'll drive yourself crazy if you try to force the issue.

Another thing to consider is that kids progress at different levels. I see 4 general types of progression:

1.  The student who doesn't do much at the beginning but then takes off and progresses really fast after several years of stagnancy.
2.  The student who slowly progresses at a consistent pace for many years.

3.  The student who progresses very quickly but planes off over time.

4.  The student who starts off fast and never looks back.

I guess the point is, if you currently have a student who you believe is not blessed with talent, that may not always be the case.. he/she might be a late bloomer.

These things have a lot to do with many factors, but mostly personal interest, work, ability, and family support. And of course, the skill of the teacher.

[thesuineg]

You know sometimes its not there fault. Talented people literally don't know how to try. Its not related to practice alot. Anyhow, musical talent is no guarantee to musical career, or in fact connected in any way at all.

Maybe another question if anyone would care to answer. Isn't 3 hours of practicing enough? I don't see use in any more

[timbo178]

My philosophy is that music is a skill that can be developed just like any other skill, and talent has little to nothing to do with it. I can play piano not because I have talent but because I spent the last twenty frickin' years practising for tens of thousands of hours. There was blood, sweat and tears.

Having said that, in the recent year, I've had a new student who has progressed extremely slowly.

[dcstudio]

My philosophy is that music is a skill that can be developed just like any other skill, and talent has little to nothing to do with it. I can play piano not because I have talent but because I spent the last twenty frickin' years practising for tens of thousands of hours. There was blood, sweat and tears.

Having said that, in the recent year, I've had a new student who has progressed extremely slowly.

I am at 44 years of Blood Sweat and Tears--that talent word tends to bother me too. 

[thesuineg]

oh god.